₦airaland Forum

Kokoye,
  oga there's a plethora of tithe-related topics already in existence now . . . is there something new you'd like to focus on?

http://www.google.com.ng/cse?cx=partner-pub-6465801557104924%3Abko28ysgdng&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=tithe&siteurl=www.nairaland.com%2Fnigeria%2Fboard-17.0.html

Enigma:
Yay, yep he's cool and coos his love and best wishes.

Hope he knows his daddy is da' Man?

ajoguegbe:
@Jesoul. Though I dont know if manmustwac has replied my personal mail to him but You sound like one I can depend on. I am already giving a sigh of relief,
You can read my complaint on the thread that read "these Religion Board Moderators are Biased" I think you will understand why i said you have been too silent when manmustwac is not giving me any reasonable answer nor changing things. I dont blame Mukina2, for locking the thread and transfering it to the Islamic dumping ground where people dont visit,since he is a muslim,
Please unlock the thread "Why Muhammad is not a prophet" and put it back to the general religion board from the Muslim section Mukina hid. No comment there is as bad as what is in "why Jesus is not God" and it is still on till now.

I'm sure Manmustwac would've replied you by now but . . .

you should know that both of us have no powers or jurisdiction outside of this section. We cannot move topics outside of here back in, we can only move topics out. Hope that makes sense? Feel free to open another thread if you'd like to on the same topic and just make sure its within forum rules and you'll be fine. Does that sound okay?

---

Enigma:
Jesoul

I troway plenty salute ooooo! Welcome back.

Lol, salute troway'd back  thanks brotha. Hows little 'nigmalet these days? growing and growing I'm sure.

KunleOshob:
@Jesoul
Welcome back!

Oga Kunle thanks! I trust you've been fighting the good tithe fight. Malachi 'brandishers' beware, Kunle is here. How is everything with you on and off NL? hope all is fantastic.

vescucci:
JeSoul! Yay

Vescucci! double triple yay!

NuclearSir, I salute

Toba how you dey?

toba:
Let me put it this way.

Mukina2 = a super moderator in all section(Muslim)

Jesoul = moderator(Christian Religion section)

Manmustwac =moderator (atheist Religion section)

Lemme add one more thing- Manmustwac = fantastic moderator (atheist Religion section)

---

ajoguegbe:
Jesoul,I dont know you that much but you are still on the list for cold complacency

Lol, see wahala. I've been away for a while so hope that'll be enough to take me off your list ehn. lol. So . . . what's the problem?

TV01:
And I appreciate your humour and demeanour in comprehending that. No offense was intended and I'm glad non was taken. May I unoficially recieve you to the NL religion board. Welcome sir!

So you can't play tennis but fancy yourself at semantics abi? Ok 0!

I am loathe to teach until I am unmistakebly called to - and not by man - but kindly permit me to share my little apprehension of grace with you.

Grace is a teacher and enabler, a tutor, and a transformer. So, far example, one previously hated giving; enter grace. Now such a one does not so much feel obliged or constrained to give - morally, legally or otherwise - it becomes his very nature. One does not do what comes naturally out of obligation. Or do you feel obliged to continuously net those weak first serves? No it's 'cos of your puny arm muscles, its your nature !

Not contradicting yourself in this instance, confusing yourself would be more apt here, We are contrasting giving vs. tithing, grace vs law, obligation vs. freewill. Not having established a position there, you then proceeded to needlessly throw in salvation, works, justification and a whole bunch of stuff. More thought, less haste. Shot selection again!

Indeed you "quoted two scriptures" and more, but needs must make sense of them and correctly contextualise, ok?

Ah, ah! Onslaught ke? Are you calling NL' wicked? After having a booming serve rained down on your head and your best shots effortlessly returned, we then relegated you from the main tour to the challenger circuit. No need for any onslaught again 0 !

Of course you are iron - of the scrap variety sha 0 ! So sir you have a choice of nicknames. Those being "Wild Card" or "Scrap-Iron Mike".

God bless
TV

This TV01 guy self . . . prospective discussants beware oh! bring your titanium, not plastic rackets and AK-47 48s not water pistols. You have been warned .

Spikey whut up!  

Are Marriage Vows Difficult To Uphold? Depends on who you ask.

spikedcylinder:
This is a typical marriage vow:

I, (Bride/Groom), take you (Groom/Bride), to be my (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part.

I, (name), take you, (name), to be my lawfully wedded (husband/wife), my constant friend, my faithful partner and my love from this day forward. In the presence of God, our family and friends, I offer you my solemn vow to be your faithful partner in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad, and in joy as well as in sorrow. I promise to love you unconditionally, to support you in your goals, to honor and respect you, to laugh with you and cry with you, and to cherish you for as long as we both shall live.

I for one know how much of a joke those words are, these days.

Lol. You're right these words have little to no meaning in most circles.

But honestly, even without being married to him, I have pretty much felt that way and it has been doubly reciprocated for over 6yrs now. Marriage is so much deeper than reciting a few vows. It's a mystery that I don't even think can be taught, it has to be experienced on the same frequency by two souls. This quote I think is stellar:

saintchux:
The problem with marriage is not keeping the vow, but marrying with wrong motive.

So the vows can be very easy to uphold, depending on the people involved, and the attitude, expectations, and motives for being in the relationship. Or it can as you aptly stated - a complete joke, where usually neither one in the couple is laughing.

^^Negro, there's no denying that incentives attract business, and instituting policies in order to stimulate growth (or what have you) works. I don't antagonize you on those points.

I do antagonize you on the notion that the US should be going out of her way and out of the "goodness" of her heart to institute policies that "help" other nations. Can you name one country on the earth does that?

Each nation should primarily be looking out for HER interests - not that of their neighbor. Third world countries should not be waiting for a savior from the west to rescue them, we should pick ourselves up by the bootstraps, roll up our sleeves and save our country ourselves. We should be the ones placing the incentives, making good policies etc etc. I am from a school of thought that says "no one can make you feel inferior without your permission" - likewise no one can make another country bad without its citizens permission. We are responsible for what we are, its not the US's responsibility to "help" us.

[quote author=*Hauwa* link=topic=472219.msg6344640#msg6344640 date=1278509900]born into a military family, got siblings serving and i'm also one and always will be

SemperFi my sister[/quote]Wow that's really something. You and your family have my respect and admiration. One cannot put a price tag on the sacrifice you make, mad kudos girl! . My big bro is also in the army.

Fellas play nice now

@Hauwa,
just outta curiosity my sister, do you have family in the army?

agathamari:
if you are in the country illegaly as in broke the law to do so they you must face whatever legal reprimand that faces you. jail, deportation, fines what not. you CANNOT expect for one moment that ANY sevice paid for by taxes of citizens and legal imigrants will aply to you. you CANNOT expect that any special privliges will be provided for you. illegals claim that the imigration process is too hard yet it is because of people like them that has made it so. the excuse that americans dont want those jobs is bs, there is no job that they do americans wont. there is no job mowing lawns that pays $10 an hour talk less about $40. recently a hospital in philidelphia had over 400 applicants for the position of janitor - sound like americans dont want this job?

ever heard of a certain bankrupt state called[b] California[/b]?

About the "jobs Americans don't want to do". I had remarked to Dayo about a study I read a while back that young African american males are the demographic hardest hit by illegals taking these "small small" jobs. Jaheim could've gotten the dunkin donuts job for $10.50, but Jose is getting it for $7.50. I blame neither Jose or Jaheim. I blame the employers who are breaking the law in order to make a buck.

Lol, awesome dialogue "Abeg commot pitch make the match continue" lol

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=472219.msg6336471#msg6336471 date=1278356661]Tayo and Dayokanu,

Here is a list of few countries where US, acting alone or in treaty with major European partners, have gone in and re-distributed resources and growth:

South Africa
Kenya
Morrocco
South Korea
Israel
Brazil
Argentina[/quote]I have just one question. Did the US forcefully invade any of these Nations, take over their governing bodies, act without the blessing or approval of the leadership and impose their own policies on the people?

At the end of the day every country is responsible for their own current situation and need to start looking in the mirror.

---

Dayo, I can see ur last post.

I agree with you on the learn the language part. ESL (English as a Second Language) classes are offered for free in many many community centers and colleges. However, the number of people taking advantage of them are very few. Illegal immigrants do not come here to learn english (infact some see it as a diluting of their culture/heritage) they come to work to the bone to make money. But yeah, you live in Russia, you should learn to speak russian.

Its not about 'forcing' companies to pay more - let them find the cheapest means to function - as long as it is legal! lol. You're right they could be forced to outsource to other nations. Let the market dictate, not illegal immigrants.

As for the Indians in IT and Medicine, we should not be discussing that because they are legal immigrants. Those who will create good competition within different industries we welcome with open arms.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=472219.msg6321309#msg6321309 date=1278087859]My solution will be that USA develop a foreign policy that seek to re-distribute resources, growth and prosperity around the globe. This will help its over-burden domestic programs to function satisfactorily for its own citizens.[/quote]My response is the same as my seniors here:

dayokanu:
But how can you hold the developed country responsible for the wastefulness and misappropriation and lack of foresight of the third world.

. . . and then when the US steps in and starts calling shots, people will start complaining America wants to take over their land and culture.

Furthermore, it is the responsibility of the leadership of any nation to do what is best for THAT nation - not the neighboring country, or one that is 1000miles away. America is responsible to only americans, likewise Nigeria is responsible to only Nigerians. When was the last time the NASS made any policy that assisted or benefitted our neighbors in Niger? or Ethiopia?

tpiah:
you've made some valid points here but the fact remains that if developed countries do not promote infrastructural and economic development in the third world, then they cant, in all honesty, continue complaining about migration from those places.

I like the tone with which you say this, but I could not disagree more. It is not the responsibility of 1st world countries to "help" 3rd world nations. We have to pick ourselves up by our bootstraps and make ourselves better.

Jenwitemi:
I don't see how that nullifies the entire post, jesoul. Every attribute in that corresponds with the general view of theists of what the creator should be. In any case, Yahweh cannot even fulfill a single one of those attributes.

My brother, general view doesn't equal the whole truth. If God is God, then our human minds will never be able to apprehend Him in his entirety. We're grasping at small straws so to speak.

I do agree with you, though, that human perception of what the creator should be plays a role, but don't you think that we should reject in it's totality, the jewish perception of what the creator should be, when it stinks so much?
Yes, i have considered this, but the attributes in the list is already light years ahead of the attributes of Yahweh, and that is the point here.

I gave this example once.

I was at a dept mtg and someone made a presentation on a new approach on drug development. Scientist A said "this is a novel method of approach that could revolutionalize the industry" while Scientist B said "this is pure speculation and conjecture, has no basis or real foundation and could be a total disaster for a company".

Who is right? Scientist A or B? is their reasoning shaped by their different personal experiences?

My point is that 2 people - both experts - can look at a singluar thing and make vastly different declarations about it. Many such as yourself see the God in the OT in a negative light, there are many of us on the other side. Who is right? is there even a right?

Jesoul, i do not consider subjectivity to be a sin, so i never accused any religionist of that.

Sorry, you may have misunderstood me, and I didn't make my point clearly. My bad. I meant matters of faith are subjective and vary from person to person likewise the suggestions on the attributes of God was also subjective = we're all committing the same sin. Make sense? hope so.

I have a deep understanding of what faith is and how personal it is to each individual. I do not dispute that. But what i reject totally is the imposition of someone else's subjectivity on others, which is what religion is, especially henotheistic religions. Believe my subjective perceptions or burn in hell. That is totally insane.

No its not brotha. Religion is not the culprit - the practitioners are. There are many christians, muslims, hindus that have done incredibly noble things because of their faith - and vice versa. You cannot indcit all of religion because of the many bad eggs.

Besides what does it matter to you or anyone who doesn't believe a religion that it teaches "you'll go to hell"? if you don't believe it then it doesn't matter to you right? Leave those who believe it to deal with that. As long as the practice of their faith does not infringe on you then where's the beef?

^^ oh okay, thot you didn't like the rule .

I saw this story on the news few weeks ago.

Debrahlee Lorenzana sues Citigroup, claims bank fired her for being too sexy
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/06/03/2010-06-03_curvaceous_beauty_fired_by_banking_giant_files_suit_claiming____citigroup_just_c.html

See the slideshow here of her "work clothes": http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/galleries/was_debrahlee_lorenzana_too_sexy_to_work_at_citibank/was_debrahlee_lorenzana_too_sexy_to_work_at_citibank.html

some women self, they just love attention at any cost.

0hsisi:
I don't agree with this one however[b] if[/b] one has to put a labcoat over it.
This place can be brutally hot in the summer.

If the weather is hot, some women simply carry an extra sweater and put it on at work. The air-conditioned buildings are always still cold anyways.

Ohsisi, they didn't ban cleavage now

they banned anything that reveals too much cleavage

Some women do not understand how to dress professionally hence employers have to take this step. Leave the sexy and provocative to after work hours.

Dayo, click on my profile and "lastest posts" to see my last post to you. That useless spambot has removed 2 of them. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?action=profile;u=99271;sa=showPosts

and oh . . . the only thing corporations should be forced to do is obey the law. Let the market dictate the prices. And don't forget the Americans asking for $40/hr also pay at least 30% in taxes, bringing them to what ~$25, while the illegals do not pay any tax on their $10.

dayokanu:
Sure they should be charged. Currently the USCIS charge for forms. Their income should be taxed as with the American citizen since they are making the money on American soil.

Its even close to extortion self lol.

This one tricky. Why give them work permit and tactically deny them jobs. This might indirectly be giving legal residence to people later deny job therefore they take to crime.

Yeah that's the problem I see with that point.

Anyone that has a right to work should compete for jobs fairly with others

You're right. The problem is that one is a citizen/legal resident, while the other is not. Citizens should always get first dibs.

Illegal who have been here for 20yrs too should go through the same work permit thing.

Anyone that commit crimes should be taken to jail and punished according to American laws

So who gets deported? there has to be deportation factored in somewhere here. We're already at the breaking point, if the illegal population continues to grow at the same rate, the propositions above would not be exectutable - I don't think. There needs to be some kind of sophisticated filter system to keep the best and ship off the worst.

Make me self talk my own . . .

Pastor AIO:
You seem to have as a basic premise the belief that religions are invented arbitrarily by various founders from various cultures. I, on the other hand, believe that they are based on experiential truths that are available to all of us though we may articulate them differently depending on our cultural mindset and era.

If at the basis of religion there is a suggestion that all is not well with humanity and a means of solving this malaise is proposed then that is one similarity. If the means of solving this malaise bears some similarity across religions then that would be another similarity worthy of note. If a diagnosis of the malaise bears similarities across religions then that too would be another similarity to add to things. If these 3 similarities are not sufficient to make one stagger then you need to drink more.

I see your/Max's point and I also see Deepsight's.

  Going by your excellent post above, to my laymind, it almost sounds like you're saying this:

Sickness. If at the basis of all sicknesses there is a suggestion that all is not well with the body and a means of solving this malaise is proposed then that is one similarity btw all sicknesses. If the means of solving this malaise bears some similarity across all sicknesses then that would be another similarity worthy of note. If a diagnosis of the malaise bears similarities across sicknesses then that too would be another similarity to add to things.

Hope you like my remix . Feel free to substitute "sickness" with "music" or "beer" or "cartoons" or "marriage" etc . . . So yes, there are staggering similarities between all sicknesses/music/beer etc (surface view of course, and it almost goes without saying), but also staggering differences (Deeper view - aka Deepsight's position). Perhaps, this is simply the case with Religion?

I think this "staggering" word is what caused all the wahala. Bad "staggering" word, bad.

Jenwitemi:
Thank you for asking. I will suggest the following attributes;
1)It is the life force as well as the unifying source of all it's creation.
2)It has no chosen people. All creation is chosen by it, and as a result, all are equally special.
3)It is all knowing or omniscient.
4)It is omnipresent/ all present. It is everywhere all the time and at the same time.
5)All powerful/ omnipotent.
6)It is omni-benevolent or all loving.
7)It is the unifying force of all creation, and not the source of separation that we have been led to believe.
It has no name, except the names given to it by humans on their own volition.
9)It is an egoless entity that is totally transcendent of any human ego generated emotions like wrath, jealousy, parochialism, egocentrism, arrogance, etc.
10) It demands no worship or praise because it is transcendent of any desire for such.
11)It has no gender(which why i am using "IT" for it because).
12) It's inability to have an enemy because of it's transcendence through it's nature of egolessness.

These are the attributes of what [size=16pt]i [/size] consider to be the true creator God of the universe. But let us start with this list. Can you let us know which of these attributes did the jewish tribal deity fulfill?

But doesn't that single letter nullify your entire post Jenwitemi? As Vesc pointed out earlier, perhaps the problem is with our perception of what we expect God to be like? I know you were just giving your opinion though.

  However, have you considered that if God was God, He(just a term) would by light years and leap dimensions transcend all the classifications you've just given above?

  I understand we can only work off the limitations of our mind, but perhaps this is why we should refrain from projecting ourselves onto God and ascribing certain characteristics onto Him as well? Also, you do realize this sin of subjectivity is the same you accuse religionists of. But perhaps this sin is not such a bad one. Faith, or the lack thereof is a very personal and intimate thing. So either way, I don't think the veracity of a persons faith should be subject to another's terms and conditions. Let each man decide for himself and by their fruit ye shall know them . . .

---

Vesc, deny all you want. The truth is there for all to see.

Ibime:
3 Illegal immigrants discussing illegal immigration. . . . priceless!!!

See this refugee . . . your elders are talking and you too want to put mouth. Isn't there a yard somewhere you should be servicing?

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=472219.msg6317186#msg6317186 date=1278020278]@topic,

1. None of the Illegals should be granted citizenship. You shouldn't reward acts of illegality with citizenship.[/quote]100% agree.

2. Provide the illegals with work permits that should be renewed every 5 years.

Sounds like a reasonable start. They would be charged for these permits? including renewals? and taxed on their income as well too right?

3. None of them should be offered a job until it can be proven that no citizen is skilled enough and available for the job.

hehe . . . Tayo, there will never be a job that no citizen isn't skilled enough to do lol. So is this a trojan horse law that will ensure illegals never jobs? Citizens/legal residents/immigrants should always get the priority anyways.

4. They should never be allowed to vote. If they are here for economic reasons as we are told to believe, why participate in the political process?

Well if they're not allowed to become citizens, how else will Obama raise an extra army of 50 milla voters in order to change the law and remove term limits so he can be president forever? Jokes aside, I think the no-voting thing is a no-brainer for reasonable people.


So Tayo, are you saying the govt. will continue to issue work permits without some kind of term or goal or limit placed on it? what will be done with new illegals who arrive after such a law is passed? cos there is a constant flow everyday. Also what about illegals that have been here 20+yrs? what about illegals that commit crimes? Just curious as to your opinions. Dayokanu feel free to take a stab at the questions too. Thanks.

and please help out Barack Obama and the rest of congress.

And please no one should mention that obscene word called "Amnesty". I don't support any ideas that either stick the middle finger or give a slap in the face of hardworking legal immigrants, legal residents (and even citizens), who spent years and thousands of dollars doing it the right way.

I also think the oft mentioned "path to citizenship" is a load of you know what. Illegal is illegal. You cannot reward someone for breaking the law and there must be consequences for committing a crime and breaking the laws of a Land. On the other hand, deporting all 50 million of the illegals is virtually impossible and not really a reasonable solution. Indeed, illegal immigrants make up a significant portion of industries such as construction, food service, cleaning services etc. aka "jobs Americans don't want to do" (not true if you ask me).

What are your solutions fellow NLders?

logten:
Why is it dat wen a pastors is ministering,

wen they blow dat their spiritual breeze from their mouth,

everybody falls.

[size=14pt]except d camera men?[/size]

www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6 www.nairaland.com/attachments/180447_ROTFLMAO_gif3d0c775232c7f27cf80592785b9635b6
ROTFLOL . . .  this has got to be one of the funniest things I've read on NL   

Infact, I'm now struggling to figure out which is funnier; the above or the below:

Joagbaje:
camera men ,Ushers etc ,Hardly fall, because of their responsibilities, Its part of their sacrifice and training. It takes a man willingness to recieve. But these people are trained in such a way that as helpers in ministry ,they recieve such blessing some other way. Ushers and protocols dont close eyes in service, to pray or dance and jump arround. Though , there are exceptional occasions when such manifestation occur to them or even the pastor deliberately minister to them . I have seen pastor Chris blow on ushers , protocols , Chior etc even instrumentalist . So dont criticise what you dont understand.

Oga Chukvyl,

there are only a billion and one other threads on tithes. Please search below or start with this one:

To Tithe or Not to Tithe?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-272.0.html

vescucci:
I dunno about Yahweh.

I know there is God. I know many civilizations recognize this and call him by many names. If you say God did something He didn't do, it doesn't make Him go poof! I as many people have issues with God of the OT but this is where my train of thoughts go radical.

[b]You have just asserted that God should be benevolent, nice, awesome etc. But what if He is not? What if He is absolutely everything the OT says He is? I do not think this is true but I just wonder why people who say we project the worst of us on Him do not see the other side of this reasoning. He coulda swooped down and shown Himself and I can bet you that will stop all (or most of evil). I think God is so far above us that someone cutting off the neck of someone else, though evil, is so minute when compared to the bliss the dead person will enjoy. We eat animals, don't we? Nobody gets teary when eating a burger. You say they don't have souls. Who says so. How do you know? I don't think they have souls either but I just want people to stop thinking in a box. If you think God ought not to be anything but pure love, I'd tell you that if he were pure hate, the world would not be much worse. Some people like to use bacteria to describe how we must look to God or vice versa. Do you really care which pathogen is killing which? No you don't[/b]

So, I don't know if Yahweh is God but I know that there is God and He ought not to be changing His character all over the place. It makes Him hard to follow when He is murdering people in one page and delivering people in another.

And then when I tell him he's got nuggetts he'll think I'm kidding. This Vesc self!

Lol. Where's Prez, theamead & David?

Meanwhile, Negro, I know the re-reception was a bit cold, but i have missed u dude, a very warm welcome back!

Well, with all of hollywood and celebrities constantly licking on Obama's behind, it is a welcome development to see anyone not join the backside-kissing . . . whether or not his opinion has a hole or two in it 
 

Ikomi:
Do you ever think through the things you write. And still those Muslim nations sell you oil, they hold your debts in bonds

The middle east does not sell America oil because they like America. They sell us oil because they like our money.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=467743.msg6304634#msg6304634 date=1277829590]Yes maybe should consider that before you started bullying and terrorising me on the internet. . . .if I were a bad fellow we might have a different story today.[/quote]hehe, I "bullied" you because you're special. I haven't bullied anyone else you know . . .

Months ago I hit a dead end in my search for the face behind Jesoul and had given up. Then my breakthrough came when you declared you were on a project that had to do with cure psoriasis. Gbam. Add that to the lil bit of infos i have from serious digging including the little i could glean from your you-tube videos, I was able to narrow it down and voila.

If I were abuzola now, what'd you think woulda happened?

Dayum, see detective. Your powers are really scary. Did you also read through my boring paper?    

The internet is really something else. I tried one of those detective/tracking softwares one time - by just putting in my name, it gave all my previous addresses, possible siblings, schools and workplaces. Nifty tech smarts like yourself are few and far between (I hope) - that is good for us mortals just trying to have a lil fun surfing an internet forum. I guess we should all just thank God Tudor is not a religious zealot bent on jihad.

 So how much for your services? I would like a little dirt on MyJoe and Noetic.