₦airaland Forum

Chris,

Chrisbenogor:
But let me get you right, do you think that because Jericho was allegedly promised to the hebrews "Justifies" the killing of the women and the children.
I really want to indulge you on standards, but that might derail this thread completely, we are trying to ascertain if God is Wicked, so we can plug it back to the old testament
Jesoul, is the God you serve Wicked?

you sound just like the Isrealites
Eze 18 "Yet says the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not fair and just! O house of Israel, are not My ways fair and just? Are not your ways unfair and unjust?"  
   
   simple answer, No. God is Not wicked. Again the problem is with you and how you've chosen to view and interpret certain biblical events and pronounced them evil and wicked. I'll continue to repeat it, the problem is not God and the bible, the problem is us and our twisted fairytale perception of who God is, instead of what the bible teaches.

I repeat yet again: you're trying to fit God into this mental box that you've created, complete with your own standard of 'moral' and 'righteous'" & you continue to read and interpret scriptures thru your own understanding, thru your own definition of what is moral & righteous for God to permit, then you make your own conclusions about the events and set them in stone . . .  hence why the truth that is God will continue to evade you.

Week 10 is upon us

Tenn vs Chi - This will be an interesting match . . . but Tenn has what it takes to go on the road and win
Jax vs Det -  I think the tigers should be able to squeal squeak out a win from the underacheiving Jags   
GreenBay vs Vikes - I expect the packers to take this one     
Buffalo vs NE - The Bills are very beatable, Cassel make me proud of you or else . . .             
Indy vs Pitt - Peyton should get the vicks rub ready, he's going to be sore from all the sacks!           
Giants vs Philly - In reverse psych maybe I should root[i] for [/i] the giants, then they'll lose    McNabb pls do something about the evil that is the giants

Chrisbenogor:
Jesoul they were other pressing issues on that thread, one thing you should have noticed in that pilgrims defence is that giving mirror images do not solve issues at hand, we are saying is God WICKED CRUEL HEARTLESS INHUMANE, this is very different from FEAR my dear, those actions were as wicked as they could come, we all know man is wicked too but is wickedness in the nature of God?.
That should bring us to the second part of your post, are you saying that Wickedness is part of God's nature, and about morality lets not even go there.

Chris(& Kunle too)
. . . here let me say this: the whole problem here is really with your preconceived definition & belief of who God is or isn't. You're trying to fit God into this mental box that you've created, complete with your own standard of 'moral' and 'righteous' and any acts in the bible that don't fit into your square hole of 'good & loving', you've concluded are not 'of God'. You've deemed some OT events "too wicked" for a loving God to permit -

now my questions to you:
- what possessed you with the illusion that you can define what God can or cannot permit based on your personal beliefs or moral system?

- and by what authority do you now declare that since the God of the whole bible doesn't fit into your belief system, the bible must be flawed?

and just for kicks
- if the bible is indeed 'flawed' why is it by your standard of 'morals' that the integrity of the bible should be judged by? and subject to your leanings whether it gets approval or disapproval?

- why not jesoul's standard? which by the way believes that a truly great God can at the same time disperse immense love and unleash intense wrath because He is afterall . . . God!?

 I would be most grateful if you kind fellas would indulge me  

Make una take am easy on Brad Johnson now afterall the dude has got a ring, which is more than Romo and Bolli can boast of

b.t.w TO is talking again . . . this is more like it http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3686921

My dear you miss the point again, my faith is not in the bible my faith is in God manifested to us trhough his son Christ Jesus. And his gospel is revealed to me in spirit and written on my heart. I see the bible as a tool which can aid spiritual growth if used correctly. The bible could also be used to perpetuate evil and deceive people if used with the wrong intentions.

wow what can be said after reading this? Not much at all.   

Kunle the problem is not that God is "misrepresented" in some "evil" events in the bible.
the problem is your flawed definition of God that only includes love and peace as His attributes. Pls read my reply to Chris.

Chrisbenogor:
No amount of justification pilgrim would make those mass murders in the old testament good, nothing whatsoever.

Chris you asked a similar question on the other thread and I'll give you the same answer here:

A lotta people have a hard time reconciling a loving, caring, righteous God with some of the events recorded in the OT . . . what we forget is that God is as much loving as He is fearful, as much caring as He is consuming fire, as much as God is to be worshipped, He is to be equally feared, We only get the fairy-tale description of God in most churches & in the world, they fail to teach that God disperses immense love but God also unleashes intense wrath. And we see this love and wrath all through the OT.

  So maybe the problem is with our preconceived definition of who God is and His characteristics? instead of starting at ground zero in the bible and building our understanding of God from there, the problem is we've made up in our minds a 'moral, loving' box and then tried and failed to fit God into it. God is far beyond the grasp of our human intellect, which is why we need His spirit to indwell us and reveal to our spirit who God is & why certain things He permitted seem so crazy & immoral to us.


  Pilgrim could not have said this better: [quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=191998.msg3051609#msg3051609 date=1226066030]A lot of people today are looking for some esoteric form of "god" whom they have made in their image and then sit uncomfy when they read such passages or about the wars in the Bible. I know - human nature is today to complacent to stand in the face of such issues, and while fingers are being pointed at the same God, none of you stops for a moment and wonder about the brutality of man in crucifying the very Son of God on the Cross. WHY is that a part of the Bible you would like to believe in while worrying yourself to death over the parts on slavery?[/quote]

KunleOshob:
Whilst the bible contains the truth about the gospel of christ it also contains a lot that are not of him(that was why he was always quarelling with the pharisees and saducees who were more into indoctrination). The bible is voluminous and it has and is still being used to confuse people on a daily basis. Preachers quote it out of context and find irrelevant scriptures to our christian living from it to confuse us and keep us under their control.

huh    oga Kunle that does not make any sense. I implore you to please explain: How does the fact that some have twisted & abused the bible for their own selfish reasons, reflect badly on the bible itself?

i zeroed in on the gospel of christ and the holy spirit revealed his truth to me which i would like to share with others, but the people that call themselves christians would be the first to attack me with insultive words (very unchrist like).

Dabi. it is not true. I don't see anywhere on this thread were anyone has come close to 'insulting' you kunle. Ejo, please do insert the quotes where anyone has done so.

My persuasion to share this word with others is cause of all the confusion which we have in the christian world today, over 30,000 different denominatons all preaching varied doctrine from the use of the same source. Is that not confusion? is that the faith christ inspired? The most upsetting thing is that the most important lesson christ lived, shared and taught us (Love and humility) is not even being practised or encouraged by most churches. indoctrination and word of mere men as taken precedence over the true Gospel and today people are going o church for the wrong selfish and self righteuos reasons. the real essence of the church as been lost over the centuries and we don't realize it. My fellow brethen beleive it or not the church as seriously strayed from the church established by christ and our salvation is not in the church neither is it in the bible but it is in our hearts were the holy spirit recides.

and why does it bother you so much what others are doing? why should it pierce you so much how others are living? will you not only give account of yourself? whether there are 50 billion sects or not, what has that got to do with the integrity of the bible? Again just because people have misused the scriptures, that does not = scriptures are not to be fully used and fully trusted. Dost thou not see the fatal flaw in this line of reasoning?

Daruche,
    right back at yo bro! May God's banner over you and your continue to be love.

Gamine,
what the dealio gurl?

@Everyone,
I write poetry and frequently share it on my blog elsewhere but I thot I'd share here occasionally. Here's a piece I wrote few months ago when I was really struggling with my flesh. I hope it blesses someone


Flesh vs. Spirit
Sometimes the flesh wants what it wants

wants to do what it does

wants to be true to itself

revert back to its basic instincts

and tell righteousness

"I am no more your servant

tired of listening to your sermons

I know the consequence of sin

but screw it

I just don't feel like doing the right thing"

so I'm caught in the middle

somewhere btw desire and discipline

somewhere between flesh and Spirit

struggling with whom I should pledge allegiance

and so I hate myself

I hate the rebellion

I hate the civil war between my members

the monster wanting to throw scriptures to the wind

I hate you becos you hate God

becos I love God I will hate you even more

trying to re-confine me in your rusty chains

trying to return me to bondage

back in Egypt

back in sin

your proposal looks good

but I already read the fine print

already saw that movie script

and it never ends well for the soul

who falls for your trickery

sometimes the flesh wants what it wants

wants to do what it does

since I'm powerless to stop it

I'm taking the problem to God

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=191998.msg3047723#msg3047723 date=1225987585]@Jesoul,

Lol, sis. . . I'm always blown away with your diction! The way you craft your message in few words and directly to the point, that is some wisdom I have been praying would rub off on me from you! True about that 'false luxury'. .lol. We just pray that dear Kunle would calm down and have a rethink on this matter.

Cheers.[/quote] you are such a darling Pilgrim thanks for the compliment gurl. And Sleekymag is right about your posts and how you take the time to address many false doctrines that would've gone otherwise unchecked. I pray God will continue to open the eyes of your heart to know Him better. Amen.


And Kunle I pray for you too. That whatever it is you search for, you will find complete rest and peace in the endless pursuit of simply knowing God.

Pilgrim,
[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=191998.msg3047634#msg3047634 date=1225986556]Whereas this is always the case, they use Biblical terminologies, talk about love for Jesus, as well draw verses from the same Bible to debate their ideology; etc. But on closer look, they do not trust the Biblical message or the apostleship of the ministers of the NT.
All the same, if one cannot trust the Bible and only believes that God's Word is written on our hearts, is it not hypocritical for such people to appeal to the same Bible when arguing a case?[/quote]I've been wondering oh my sista. To me both cannot be reconciled. You either believe all of it or none of it. We are not afforded the false luxury of choosing which parts to believe or which parts we think are applicable for us today. And I'm bewildered as to how brotha kunle cannot see this is an oxymoron.

Indeed the Spirit of God is one and never changes.

  But since obviously we all disagree with you on this thread, I just want to know how you determine that 'your spirit of Christ' is the right one and not "our spirit of Christ". Since we don't agree on the issue at hand, we are certainly not "one" in this instance.

Gabe, 
   come back & talk knicks & playoffs after 60 games into the season   

  and if you guys want to make progress, cut out with surgical precision the cancer that is Stephon Starbury from the team. And with steady chemotherapy, the knicks should become relevant in a few years 

  A-40,
Somehow the Jazz manage to stay off the radar, prob because they have no real "superstars" and rack up a very good record in doing so. They'll make the playoffs the question is how far will they go?

so what happens when "my spirit of Christ" disagrees with "your spirit of Christ" on which verse is biased & correct and which verses should be thrown out?

whose "spirit of Christ" is the true one?

KunleOshob:
I was quite aware that this post would provoke hostilities towards me and people would question my christian faith, but i am to strong in my faith and my relationship with my saviour that the opinions of others shaped by church doctrine can not even move me at best i would smile at their ignorance. this ignorance is understood cause indoctrination can be very mind bending and it as actually droven thousands of fanatical idiots to commit suicide bombing in the guise of keeping God's commandments in another faith. One thing is certain though christians in the first three hundred years of Christianity never used the bible as we have it today, the bible was never promised, given or sent by the holy spirit and there is evidence of flaws in it. The bible in the book of 2 corinthians tell me the that christ's message and spirit is written in my heart (not in the bible)
2 Corinthians 3:3:
3 Clearly, you are a letter from Christ showing the result of our ministry among you. This “letter” is written not with pen and ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. [b]It is carved not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts. [/b]

So do tell us how do you know 2 Corinthians 3:3 is not a verse that was written out of the bias of a man?
how do you know that that is one of the "true" and "correct" verses?
How do you know this is not one of those verses that you need to take a "pinch of salt with"?

Shocking things I just read on this thread:

KunleOshob:
The bible was not given to us or sent to us by the holy spirit

My dear i know we christians are sentimental about the bible and through church indoctrinantion we have been made to believe it is perfect. this is not so as there is no evidence from the holy spirit that the bible as we have it is from him or it is perfect.

That is not to say that the bible does not contain the word of God, it does but it also contains the opinions and biases of the Men that wrote the various books in it and the men that compiled it.

cause the bible was written by men for the consumption and understanding of man.

In my using the bible i let the spirit guide me based on the two greatest commandements Jesus left us and anything that does not conform to the spirit of christ in the bible i take with a pinch of salt.

    my dear Kunle, oga I knew you were out there on the fringes in some of the things you believe but infact I am so  shocked after reading the above I don't think I have anything else to say. I suggest you take Pilgrims suggestion and examine yourself very carefully to see if you're indeed in the faith.

[quote author=pilgrim.1 link=topic=191998.msg3047019#msg3047019 date=1225980037]It is such a laughable adventure for someone to hold these allegations against the same Book while appealing to it in his arguments in Christian doctrines.[/quote]Exactly my sista, I cannot understand how.
And Ud4u I'm glad I'm not the only one too who has noticed this.

layifioren:
If you want a city that really sucks, come to Seattle where the Seahawks are done, UW and WASU football is garbage; Mariners were the worse team this pass season in the MLB; and they even loss the Sonics to Oklahoma. Talk about total chaos

lol eya . . .

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=148652.msg3046355#msg3046355 date=1225973414]Last Night's Games
SUNS 113 - 103 PACERS (Stoudemire dropped 49 points)[/quote]He's getting back to the ferocious man he was before he got injured couple yrs ago

WIZARDS 104 - 112 BUCKS (The Wiz are yet to win this season)

I think Arenas should give back some more of his contract money

SPURS 129 - 125 TIMBERWOLVES (Parker dropped 55 points now you know the Spurs have a problem when they need double OT to beat the T'Wolves)

You know what, you're right and I might have to change my mind from my post yesterday . . . if they need 55 from parker and dbl OT to win against the T'babywolves - that's not a good sign

CELTICS 96 - 83 THUNDER

The thunder acutally competed in the first half and their defense is better than I expected - they forced a couple 24shot clock violations on the C's. I think if they can commit to keeping their energy level high for all 48mins they can have a relatively good season.

BLAZERS 96 - 103 JAZZ (The Jazz are still unbeaten)

I dunno why we're all sleeping on them, you hardly hear anything 'bout them

milknhoney:
@JeSoul

It is quite clear that you are being quite biased with your posts.

lol . . . have you looked at all the entries besides mine? everyone is biased towards their team honey.

I mean it is clear that you are into the Celtics, but to call Tracy McGrady lazy is a bit much.

McGrady is lazy becos he does not like to play defense, and even when he gets going offensively, he needs his teammates to increase their intensity, then he feeds off from them. Kobe, LeBron they carry their teams on their shoulders and win . . .

  small wonder why he's never won a playoff series.

Not like Ray Allen is all that anyways. It is clearly stated that the Celtics are absolutely nothing without KG. The rest are just fill in team mates.

lol, ridiculous . . . you are funny    I don't even need to 'argue' this 'point' - if you weren't biased against the Celtics you wouldn't say that. 

. . . and this song could not express deeper my hearts desire, every lyric is apt for such a time as this, where God is seeking people who'll worship Him in spirit and in truth.

You Are You Are - by Hillsong

You are my light and my salvation
Who shall I fear
You are the strength of all my days
Who shall I be afraid
The world may rise against me
Of this I will be sure

I will bless the Lord forever
I will bless Your holy name

Lord it is You I desire
It is You that I seek
To live with You in Your house forever
Beholding Your beauty
And in the time of trouble
of this I will be sure

I will bless the Lord forever
I will bless Your holy name

You ask me who You are
Say that you are the God
Say that you are the Christ
Son of the Living God

I will Wait for you - Juanita Bynum (God please restore truth to this woman )

I will wait for you Jesus
You're the sun in my horizon
All my hopes in you Jesus
I can see you now arising
There's a wall that stands in front of me
That I know I just can't climb
Like an eagle you will carry me
Just a matter of time

I will wait for you Jesus
You're the sun in my horizon
All my hopes in you Jesus
I can see you now arising

An evil army is all around me
Another wall that's in my way
I believe in the word you promised me
So I will wait another day
I will wait for you Jesus
You're the sun in my horizon
All my hopes in you Jesus
I can see you now arising

Mehn I have been singing inexplicably all day

I Could Sing Of Your Love Forever

Over the mountains and the sea
Your river runs with love for me
and I will open up my heart
and let the Healer set me free
I'm happy to be in the truth
and I will daily lift my hands
for I will always sing of when
Your love came down

I could sing of Your love forever,
I could sing of Your love forever,
I could sing of Your love forever,
I could sing of Your love forever.

Oh, I feel like dancing
it's foolishness I know
but, when the world has seen the light
they will dance with joy,
like we're dancing now

doyin13:
cheii missed the first marquee matchup of the season.

Ray Allen driving to the hoop. .hmmm. He must have had an eran riro defender on him

Yaomehn.

hehe . . . he did it against tMac all night & against Artest late in the 4th, i was embarrased for Tracy. Ray's shown sporadic flashes of having that ability all thru last yr. His prolific outside shooting overshadows his "drive to the rim and complete the 3pt play" game.

Sorry the Boston Jazzman is kind of overloaded right now . . . with the Celtics underway, the Patriots trying to make the playoffs and the Redsox attempting some hot stove moves for players, Jesoul seeking an upgrade . . . it's a terribly busy time - but come back in a month, he should an opening on his schedule . . . 

  and which kin Jackie Robinson? 70% of blacks don't even know who he is & what he did. Though his moment of "first" was one for the ages, wish more people recognize what he signified BUT Obama's accomplishment is by light years & undiscovered worlds more momentous.

_{in other news: it has been reported blacks now believe getting 'signed' to the FG is possible, before all they knew was the NFL, NBA, HIPHOP, DOPE etc . . .}

AMAKAONE:
@uzoo , you also have a breadmaker?

I bought a Breadman Junior Bread Bakery thingymajiggy a few months ago.

I've only used it once cause the bread came out like Olumo Rock!
Actuially Olumo rock is better because it's a tourist attraction.
I think the garbage guys cursed me when they had to load that loaf into the garbage truck the next morning sha

I used the same bread quantities I usually use in a normal oven, but they clearly did not work.

do you have a bread recipe that works with a breadmaker? please?

ROTFLOL . . . ever heard of "If at first you don't succeed, get yourself up and try again" - (one old Aaliyah song).    I was actually thinking of getting one myself

ah ah which one be your own with McNabb? . . . I said they shall remain nameless     

Be like say when God was giving people tough bodies, Donovan was absent! and Favre was standing in front hogging all the blessings

Phemmy how is your sister?

Chessguru, welcome! I've read a lil bit of your posts over in the sports section. _{Matter o'fact you actually mentioned the name of a distant relative of mine as one of your chess-ing colleagues}

ccike:
When you can see your brother prosper and have his needs met, and can honestly rejoice with him in spirit, feeling no envy and no desire to question God, while your own needs are far greater and in desperate circumstance – then you are dying to self.
When you can receive correction and reproof from one of less stature than you and can humbly submit inwardly as well as outwardly, finding no rebellion or resentment rising up within your heart – then you are dying to self.
When you are forgotten, neglected, or purposely set aside as nothing, and you personally don’t hurt from the sting of the insult or the oversight, but your heart is happy, being counted worthy to suffer with Christ – then you are dying to self.

These are very good words that we need to constantly reflect on. Thanks for sharing this.

Wassup my saints? hope you are all growing strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.

I'm currently getting a crash course in what it means to trust God. I've realized that we can say all day long and quote scriptures morn till dawn but when the situation arises it is an entirely different ball-game. When you don't know what you're going to do or from where your help is going to come - God asks that we trust in Him. The waiting part is the hardest, but it is also the part where you learn the most lessons and the strength or weakness of your faith is exposed.

Proverbs 24:10
If you falter in times of trouble,
      how small is your strength!

  It is my prayer that all those going thru trying times will trust in God, that their strength may be renewed, that they will mount on wings as eagles, walk and not grow weary, run and not faint. For God is our strength, and it is in our weakness His strength is made perfect. Amen.

Big Ben sef na only im dey carry injury? he's had like injury upon injury his whole career - add that motorcycle accident few yrs ago, appendicitis, wrist, leg, shoulder etc . . . ah ah na wetin?

but even thru it all he hasn't even missed many games like some others that'll remain nameless, he's one tough guy . . . now that's my kinda man

the thing is Cuban has got to tread softly.

If you bench Kidd, he will not be happy and will suddenly start missing practice & start using text msgs to communicate with the coach etc . . . kai what happened to Kidd? it wasn't that long ago he was terrorizing the east with his triple doubles, I still have nightmares from many a celtic loss to the Nets.

The Steelers, barring further injury to Ben, Ward doesn't get whacked as there's a bounty on him right now and consistent play on defense will go far in the playoffs. I dunno which it was more- the Redskins didn't play well or the Steelers played that well.

_{Firstoff - do you hafta write in all CAPS?} 

Kunle, kunle, kunle, you always have some problem or issue with christians or the bible & you've got this the wrong way around brotha.
There is no "misrepresentation" of God in the bible. There are no contradictions or errors. No inconsistencies. The REAL problem is the human mind and its limited ability to fully understand the mysteries in word of God, its handicapped comphrension of spiritual things pertaining to the nature of God & its severely lacking capacity to completely wrap our minds around the character of God. This is the problem - not the bible.

Now my questions for you are:
-How one can say I follow the bible, but yet at the same time submit that it has/contains errors?
-How can you with confidence quote anything from it as absolute and true?
-and use it in as a manual for your life?
-and as substance to buttress your points in debates?
-when at the same time you don't believe it is a perfect book?
-what if the parts you're following are "wrong"?
-but yet quote it to others as unshakable truth?

  I'm just trying to reconcile the idea of a christian who doesn't believe in the inerrancy of the bible but yet subscribes to the same bible for everyday living.

SA is looking very undermanned, no firepower . . . but I'm not hitting the panic button yet. They are champs and know how to pull through tough times . . . come back when they're 0-13 then we can condemn them to obscurity.

  Things I learned/was reminded of last night:

-T-Mac is lazy and unwilling to play defense for 48 minutes
-Ray Allen can drive to the hoop whenever he wants
-Leon Powe is a legitimate 6th man
-When you have Perkins & Davis abusing Yao the way they did, one must conclude Yao still lacks that aggressive killer instinct
-The Celtics have a certain been-there-done-that swagger about them
-The Rockets can get better IF they commit to team defense and not just expect Artest to stop everyone

-Mavs Jason Terry should be a starter
-Spurs need to get a 3rd option scorer before they fall too far off the playoff picture