₦airaland Forum

wow. . .I did not expect the Rockets to win any games, especially on the road.

double wow, Washington returned the favor to Cleveland with a beatdown by 36 points!!! I guess until someone loses at home the series ain't done yet.

AKO
I know how you feel brotha. . . against my better judgement & experience I'll try and respond to brotha Imhotep.

 Imhotep,
I can't believe you attempted to put forth those verses as evidence the bible contradicts itself

imhotep:
@A_K_O and Jesoul

My brother and sister, the verses speak for themselves. You guys are making dogmatic statements.

1.
a) 2 Kings 2:11 => "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
b) John 3:13 => "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, , the Son of Man."

2.
a) PRO 26:4 => Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
b) PRO 26:5 => Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

This is too easy. . .

2 Kings 2:11 => "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
John 3:13 => "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, , the Son of Man."
 RE-READ the previous verses leading up to this verse and understand what Jesus is saying brotha, No man started from earth has gone up into heaven, and come down to teach on heavenly things. Jesus is saying no man left earth to go to heaven to gain this knowledge and come back down to teach it. Jesus Himself came from heaven, hence there's no one but him who has descended to the earth.
Jesus is NOT saying no one has even gone into heaven! Then that would be calling Christ a liar! God forbid such a thing!  

Here's the NLT version of the SAME scripture:
No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.
Can you now see what you're implying is off target by a thousand miles?


Next,
PRO 26:4 => Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 => Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

 no offense sir, but attempting to use the above as proof of bible contradiction is so lame I don't think it's worth any analysis.
 Anyways since you DON'T believe in the infallibility and inerrancy of the scriptures, progressing with this I'm sure will be fruitless. You already hold steadfast to your ways.

 Imagine people call a mere man, the pope, the infallible one (I cringe just to even write that!) BUT YET those same people don't believe the very word of God Himself is infallible!   how twisted is that?!

Liftedone,
AMEN!!!

detruth:
Did you remember this scripture inthe book of Psalms?

Isa 43:2-7
2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;
6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
KJV

yes indeed I did forget about that verse - talk about powerful and comforting! Thanks so much for your encouragement. I will return with a testimony of God's faithfulness when He brings it to pass.

Its the little country capital of diamond-rich Central African Republic

diamond rich huh? I hope you have access to some those rocks . I'm about to take off work and go home. Have urself a pleasant rest of the day. Godbless!

imhotep:
And what do the protestants say about the parts that contradict? Do they plan to delete them too?

Nope brotha, I have yet to come across ANYWHERE in our 66-book bible that contradicts another part.
The only contradictions are found in the extra-biblical books that the catholic church has erroneously labelled scripture. Like AKO said, and I've mentioned to you before, God cannot contradict Himself, it is ludicrous to even think that.

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=129545.msg2190108#msg2190108 date=1209066128]@ those it concerns:
[size=20pt]It is very very unwise to suggest that GOD ALMIGHTY contradicts Himself in His word. It is blasphemous and it does'nt make Him happy.[/size]

It is one thing to admit you don't understand something or that in your opinion, something contradicts itself and pray that God reveals it to you which ever way possible. But to suggest that God contradicts Himself, No No NO!!!!![/quote]A word is enuff for the wise _{I hope}

Sisikill:
ROTFLMAOPIMP!!!!

Sisikill, LOL . . .seriously oh, me I want to know. Can any catholic please tell me which kind of fish is best to use to drive away evil spirits?

Lady,
you can feign laughter all you want YOUR scriptures are staring at you right in the face. Have you nothing to say about it? that you are taught by catholic scriptures to smoke fish body parts in order to drive away evil spirits?

isn't this topic about 8 months early?

yes christmas might have pagan roots and some christians have chosen not to celebrate it - there's nothing wrong with that - to each his own.

there is nothing wrong either with those who choose to celebrate and commemorate the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ at christmas. Whether or not He was born on Dec 25th is not the point, but simply the fact we pick out that day to celebrate and recognize His birth.

But I'll add some people only see christmas as a time for gifts and gluttony and family - this ought not to be, but solely to remember the birth of Christ.

Liftedone,
wow, thanks for that very detailed and scriptural post, I took away a lotta good points from it, thanks! may God continue to increase your wisdom.

detruth:
No one can fight for you like God! Also during this period I had an health crisis, it was a serious attack, I felt like giving up. Their prayers is for me to extinct so that they can pick up the position, but in all these things God took the battle and made me more than a conqueror. Although I climbed the ladder in the midst of wolves and wild beast, nevertheless I escaped unharmed!

Detruth,
that is such a great testimony! wooow! Remember Psalm 23: "even though I walk in the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil" To quote one of Ron Kenoly's song "It is such fun to see, such fun to see, satan lose!" Praise God indeed for how He brought you thru and made you even stronger and gave you an even better promotion! the devil will always be put to shame. Amen.

One thing I really fancy and I'm crazy about God for is how He uses the things that were intended for evil to bring about good! that to me is incredible.
Gen 50:19 But Joseph said to them, "Don't be afraid. Am I in the place of God? You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. and to see it manifested in your life - I praise God for that, and for His faithfulness to bring us out victorious.

Even right now I'm still hoping in Him for my work situation. I feel I was passed over for a position that I deserve but I can't be upset about it! because deep down I just know that He will use it to my benefit - that is the hope that we share. Thank you for opening this thread and reminding me of God's faithfulness - it is always good to think on it and remember.

Btw, where is Bangui?

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=129545.msg2188239#msg2188239 date=1209042460]It can't be this easy, haba![/quote]why not?  me I'm going to stock my freezer full of all kinds of fish, ready to be smoked or grilled at short notice. Evil spirits BEWARE!!!

lafile:
Below is a quote from One of the Apocryphal books that some people believe are inspired by God.
Tobit 6:5-8: If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish, and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.

which type of fish would be better to use? mackerel, red snapper, tilapia or haddock? 

  I remember the first time I read those words, part of the catholic scriptures, I was shocked and amused, that anyone would take those seriously and not immediately think something is wrong.

Nobody needs to tell you which one is inspired by God and which one is not. There is always agreement in the Word of God. Its obvious which one does not agree.

I had asked brotha Imhotep once if one part of their scripture can contradict another part, why parts of their canon contradict each other, like the above, directly contradicting the word in James, and parts of the scriptures that teach God only forgives sins, etc. . . .he directed me to this link:
  --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_consistency_and_the_Bible.

and I quote: "The Roman Catholic Christian view (especially since the Second Vatican Council) holds that the Bible is inerrant only in the things that God intended to reveal, the inconsistencies being deemed not to belong to these, or being deemed to be figurative and/or allegory."

  so in other words the catholic church believes the parts that contradict were not "intended to be revealed by God", they believe those parts are only figurative and not meant to be taken literally - very convenient if you ask me!  Imhotep pls correct me if I'm paraphrasing wrong

SeanT21:
i can't believe ya ll are underestimating King James.

We are all witness. James is going down in History.

SeanT21, girl, let go of that dream! lol. . .the Cavs are def going down alright, down home! lol.

[quote author=j-girl link=topic=128608.msg2186017#msg2186017 date=1208984318]SeanT21 - Cavs is a team that's based on only James and Wallace. Other team members need to equally play a part in the game. James is an amazing playa but CP3 for MVP!!!!!
JeSoul - there is no need for biases here - it's so clear that Boston will demolish the Eastern conference.

I'm all the way for the Hornets not because i'm biased but because they are just the ideal underdogs. . . . . [/quote]Not to rumble ur bubble, but it's looking like Kobe might steal the MVP trophy from Paul.

as 4 dem cavs, even Ben wallace is fading into obscurity. . . he is not the same force as he was a couple yrs ago with Detroit. Cavs will make it at most into the 2nd rd and then go fishin' along with the Mavs and Rockets . . . To think I believed for a second Dallas was reborn with Dirk's comeback and poised to make some noise, so far I've been very disappointed in them. And so much for Houston's 22-game win streak, seems like it was a decade ago. . . when it was happening I told my boy, just wait till the playoffs, they'll lose in the 1st rd again. T-Mac is NOT as great as we would all like to think if he cannot carry a team into rd 2 - for once in his career!

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=127741.msg2185889#msg2185889 date=1208982412]4Him and Imhotep what is the essence of your dialogue?[/quote]AKO, don't jump in front of a raging train

Cgift,
  sweetie, surely, thou is not suprised the pope is kissing the qorani?     didn't you know catholics and mooslims serve the same god?

catechism 841
The Church's relationship with the Mus'lims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Mus'lims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful god, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]


 brotha Imhotep,
based on personal experience on these boards, I have complied a list of your answers to any and every question that is posed to you:

  "go and figure out the 33,000 protestant sects"
  "luther deleted 7 books from the bible"
  "the catholic church will continue to grow and be organized"
  "(something something) hatred"
  "go and do your research . . . (insert vatican website here)"
 "go and sort out your tithe issues"
 "(post a quote from a martin something)"
  "*insert picture of the pope*"
               and many more I can't recall now.         

detruth:
Love the way you put it!

I can hear you quoting:

John 16:33-17:1
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
KJV

JeSoul, you have the Word! Nevertheless, let still talk about the things to bear in mind during the period of trials and tribulations

My friend it is not easy oh! I remember earlier this yr I was dealing with some tough issues and really struggling to remind myself to "count it all joy" - it is definately easier said than done. And just like the Psalmist lamented many times, I looked around and saw people who were not even trying or bothering to do the right thing and they were getting off scott free. While I'm suffering all becos I want to do the right thing - it is not easy at all. But I am proof that it is possible! but only by God's grace. Heb 4:15 is really my anchor, to know that I have access to a God who has been touched with the very same troubles that I'm facing is tremendous! He knows how to comfort and relate to me in a very real way! what a hope we have in Christ! , please share some more my dear, I want to hear and be encouraged.
Heb 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

detruth:
Are you sure God is the cause of all these troubles?

My dear God is absolutely NOT the cause of troubles! The bible says everything good and perfect comes from Him, but the devil came to steal, kill and destroy.
 
 The story of Job is a perfect example. God does not create trouble, but He allows it. And He uses what the devil intended for evil to bring about good in and for us! That's how it works.

Then why did He died? In order to allow more troubles? I believe the first reason why I ran to Him the other time was for Him to save me…, from troubles and sorrows of life. I know my destiny is doomed without Him. If He is true and forever will be, then why not a change from the kind of life I do experience before? Does'nt it looks as if Christian themselves have a role to play in this matter?

The reason Christ died was NOT to save us from lifes troubles and drama and pain. . . Jn 3:16 states it plainly, He came to save us from sin and eternal damnation in hell and to serve God. Now I'm not saying all that we have to look forward to is pain and suffering as christians, no way! The bible itself teaches how the righteous will lack no good thing and those who give up things for the sake of Christ will recieve double in this life and in the next. MK10:30

 Along with all the material or physical things God will bless us with in this age, we will also have to endure pains and suffering - it is a balance my friend. A balance that is necessary to produce faith in us, grow us in Christ and make us less and less dependent on anything in this world.
I hope this helps! GodBless!

detruth:
@ JeSoul
Please can you differentiate between suffering for Christ (which i believe has a lot to do with not conforming with the world) and suffering the same way people in the world suffers in diseases, sicknesses, hunger, lack etc

I'll try 

  The first difference is that when you become a christian - everything you do is unto Christ. Your life is now under the direction and control of Christ. Your future is held secure by Christ. Your experiences, your joys and pains are all under the watch of Christ. You pretty much eat, live, breathe, think, die for Christ. Your very purpose for being alive, is Christ.

  Like Paul says in Gal2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Now for someone who's not saved, they have no hope. Their sufferings do not count towards anything, their pains and struggles do not affect their destiny, they in short are wasted.
  Whereas when you suffer in Christ, it is unto the glory of God, because your life is being lived accroding to His will and purpose.
  Now this suffering in Christ can be in all kinds of ways - physically (health), financially, etc. . . it varies from believer to believer. And God allows it to happen because He knows us, He knows where we fall short and Him allowing this different kinds of suffering to different people cleanses and strengthens us. He knows where we lack and according to that permits us to suffer accordingly that we might become better christians, closer to Him and totally subject to His will. But like it says in the word,

2 Corinthians 1:5
For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows.

  A christians suffering is never in vain. But for everyone else it is.

1 Pet 2:20
But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps
1 Pet 4:19
So then, [b]those who suffer according to God's will [/b]should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

detruth:
If we have to suffer, then where is the place of grace,riches, favour, blessing such that we profess that Jesus died for? (Rev. 5:12,13) Is His death in vain?

First, that verse is not refering to us receiving those things, but to the Savior.

 Second, we must understand that our worldy definition of riches and favor and blessings is NOT the same as God's definition of those things.
when we say riches we think of wealth and comfort, and material things, but RICHES in CHRIST is a whole different thing. It's the new relationship we have with God and how our lives are transformed by this direct access to a God beyong our imagination - this is what it is that makes us rich!

Eph1:18
I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms

Christ died for us not so we can live in comfort and happiness and peace, no. But so we can be saved from sin and have a direct relationship with God.
2Cor 5:15
And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

I was waiting for someone to start an NBA playoffs thread

poster, the Cavs are going fishin' if not in the first Rd, then the 2nd. I too picked Washington to beat them and I still think they can. . .we'll see. But seriously, Agent Zero needs to shut up if he can't back it up on the court.

Western Conference: it's so hard to say who'll come out on top. . . it's prob btw the Lakers, Spurs and Hornets.
Eastern Conference: yes I'm biased, I live in Boston, but I think the fact the Celtics will def win the east - after a tough series with Detroit _{if detroit can get their act together against Philly}

Are Christians meant to suffer? Does new life in Christ still permits troubles and tribulations?

Yes.
Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for him

2 Timothy 3:12
In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted

Philippians 3:10  
I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death

this suffering can come in all kinds of ways, physically, financially, socially etc. . . it is different for each believer. Now why is suffering for Christ so important? it explains below in 1 Pet 4:1. . .

What should be our stand while we pass through difficult moments?

Heb 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

 James1:2
Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

1 Pet 4:1
Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

So you see our attitude should be one that is joyful when we're going through tough times because we know that our God is able to see us through and bring us out victorious and much stronger than we were. While it is much easier said than done, it is by His grace and strength that we can accomplish this.

olabowale:
@JeSoul: How was the marathon, yesterday?

it was fun oh! I even had one of my friends running in it - to run 26 miles is not a small feat! I could not personally go and watch cos the traffic was crazy but I followed it on tv. As usual the Kenyans took over yet again.

Alhaji, I see you still refuse to let the concept of the trinity go. . . na wa for you. 4Him said it perfectly here, how hard is it to get? eh sir?

4 Him:
- Christians don't worship 3 Gods, that you can't wrap your mind around the concept of ONE GOD in three manifestations should not be an excuse for you to keep peddling this falsehood.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=129060.msg2180998#msg2180998 date=1208882714]Honestly people, if we are to REALLY count the points of the 10 commandments, you will see that it's nt even 10 but 12.
,
Catholics hold numbers 1-3 to be one commandment and number 11 and 12 to be separate.
Protestants hold number 1-3 to be separate and hold number 11 and 12 to be the same.
Jews hold the preface "I am the Lord your God" to be one commandment and numbers 1-3 to be one commandment.

So you see they are the same commandment, but counted differently. The Catholic church did not overlook the commandment you speak of Cgift, it is counted as the first commandment,[/quote]WRONG! please re-read Cgifts challenge it is not just that the commandments are simply combined differently by the different groups, it is that portions of it are omitted by the RCC!
Since none of the caths have bothered to show us the cathechism version, I will now post it myself, along with the link from your own vatican website.


Commandments 1 & 2 from the bible:

I am the LORD your God,
who brought you out
of the land of Egypt,
out of the house of bondage.
You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth;
you shall not bow down to them or serve them;
for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children to the third and the fourth
generation of those who hate me,
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those
who love me and keep my commandments.

Commandment 1 & 2 from the RCC:
1. I am the LORD your God:
you shall not have
strange Gods before me
2. You shall not take
the name of the LORD your God in vain.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm


Now what I, Cgift, 4Him and other concerned christians want to know is why this part
[center]You shall not make for yourself a graven image,
or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above,
or that is in the earth beneath,
or that is in the water under the earth;
you shall not bow down to them or serve them;
for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers
upon the children to the third and the fourth
generation of those who hate me,
but showing steadfast love to thousands of those
who love me and keep my commandments [/center]

  is missing from the cathechism version of the 10 commandments? please note it is not just simply re-arranged or combined into another commandment, it is completely gone!

Strife just wants to be stirred up because of hatred. Imhotep let them be, they will soon burn out their souls. Clearly having disregard for the greatest commandment "You shall love your God and your neighbour as yourself"

Cgift, JeSoul, 4Him and others, this holier than thou attitude will only lead you to darkness. Olabowale, keep out of this discussion.

Cgift simply asked for a scholarly answer to a very very simple question. Your response to play the part of a victim and cry foul, accuse us of hatred and strife, call us names, when all you have to do is simply rebutt his claims with biblical evidence. Is it because you cannot biblically defend yourself that you resort to those tactics?

huxley:
What should we do with those commandments in Exodus 34 then? Disregard them? Mind you, these were the commandments in the Holy of Holies.

*shaking my head*
you don't have to pretend with me and act like you actually and really care and want to know. The 10 commandments and plain and obvious for all to see. As I said, even the secular minds at wikipedia did a great job of listing them and giving the history behind it. There is no controversy anywhere so stop trying to fan a fire that was never lit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

Cgift,
I also am waiting to see a scholarly response to your challenge . . .but I am 100% sure they have no answers.

Imhotep,
this can all be very simple if you'll just simply list in order from 1 - 10 the 10 commandments as taught in the cathechism here instead of posting links to hundreds of pages and asking the poster to go and study. And you like playing the "victim card" too much. Cgift is simply challenging you, he put forth his evidence, why not engage and respond and rebutt, instead of accusing him of hatred, etc?

huxley,
we all know who you really are. . . christians know what the 10 commandments are, OLAADEGBU already posted them, so stop trying to disrupt the thread. If you're still confused here's wikipedia, even they know what the ten commandments are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

Image123:
so,JESoul 'I cover you with the hem of His garment'.say "hem of His garment/Amen

I wasn't sure whether to say amen or not but I appreciate ur prayers Image

@JeSoul
sorry for the word 'angry' that I chose for description.mybad I'm Sorry

no qualms sweetie

I do not see the harm in the practise as compared to some other popular belifs.

I hear you but the goal should be to stop ALL unscriptural practices, whether harmful or harmless.

well seeing you so badly av a specific calling for a discussion on biblical support for the practice,let me try to back it up scripturally.I think the practice has its roots from the literal sprinkling of the blood before the passover in egypt.Exodus12v22,23

There's numerous references to blood all over the scriptures, but so far I haven't seen one that provides for the use of it like we do today in prayers.

Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Because this Isrealites sprinkled the blood,the destroyer wasn't able to harm them,their family,animals and property.The passover was symbolic of their preservation and salvation.today some believers appropriate Christ,our passover's blood for their salvation,healing and preservation,even much more

But that was OT. and it was the sprinkling of the blood of animals, they were under a different convenant than we are today. Heb tells us that the blood of Christ was used to cleanse the heavenly copy of the tabernacle BUT we are not encouraged to go ahead and do this sprinkling ourselves.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Amen. I'm all for the blood of Christ that washes away my sins and saves me from death but still I am not taught anywhere to pray and sprinkle that blood over anything.

I think thats why they plead the blood.as for if it is theologically correct or technically correct,I can't say but if there is faith,even the hem of His garment is enough to cover you not to now say His blood.

But my brotha sincerity is NOT all that matters. A person can believe in something strongly and have faith but they could be dead wrong. God demands holiness and has given us His word to use to live, we cannot go ahead and institute practices that are not scripturally sanctioned and turn around and say "well as long as I have faith" it will work?
If this be the case all kinds of new doctrines and teachings can be loosely 'justified' on the basis that the scriptures hint at it and since I believe in faith strongly it makes it okay- I trust you see the danger in such a stance my dear.

Image,
  you miss the point of this thread entirely. No one is getting angry at people for 'pleading the blood' of Jesus, no one is here to condemn those who do it. But rather this thread is specifically calling for a discussion on biblical support for this practice, that's all. We should be able to scripturally back up as christians the things that we do - that's what the bible teaches us!

  Tayo,
[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=124301.msg2120496#msg2120496 date=1207274119]@JeSoul,
What we do when we plead the blood is just expressing faith in it. Faith is not complete until it is expressed in words and action. Pleading the blood is essentially an act of faith.[/quote]Yes Tayo, I know that those who use and pray like that are doing so sincerely not with the wrong heart. BUT that is still not justification for it, you can be sincerely wrong, but yet God in His mercy might still choose to honor that sincerity.

The Bible talks about "faith in the blood".  Can you tell us how this is done?

here's the context of "faith in His blood"
Rm3
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

  yes Tayo, faith in the blood of Christ, that that blood is sufficient to wash away our sins, redeem and save us. This is not a license to "plead" the blood over ourselves or our houses or our cars! there is still not hint of that here.

Also, how did the Saints in Rev 12:11 use the blood to their advantage in conflict with the enemy? While details are not given, I simply believe it is an act of faith, and that is what people who plead the blood are doing - expresing their faith in the efficacy of the blood to provide protection.

I don't think so. I understand those who do it believe in faith and have the right heart, but it still does not make it right.
And as for how they overcame with the blood of the Lamb, I read and understand that verse much differently and [b]I wouldn't take it to mean a very practical and verbal application of the blood during prayer. [/b]But rather that we overcome because the blood is what accomplishes the work from start to finish. It's by the blood He shed we're able to do anything. This is not automatically grounds for pleading and calling upon this blood on a daily basis, over material things.
I like how John Gills exposition puts it, much more clearer and better than I could communicate:

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb…
The Lord Jesus Christ, by whose blood they were redeemed and ransomed out of the hands of Satan, that was stronger than they; and by which they were justified from all sin, and so all charges and condemnation were of no avail against them, whether of Satan or the world; and by which they were cleansed from all pollution, both internal and external; and by which even their conversation garments were washed and made white; by this they also, drew nigh to God with boldness, as to their own God, notwithstanding the accusations of Satan; and this they could, and did make use of as a shield to defend them against all his charges; and this being sprinkled upon them, as it gave them an inward conscience peace amidst all, so it was their security from the destroying angel; and under this purple covering they went triumphantly to glory, having through it obtained an entire conquest over Satan:

Everything in the Bible is precious and holy. Besides, we are holy in His sight and how can we who are holy not use what is holy in our daily living?

you are mixing things together here. If you were going to use this argument then you can say you'll pray using anything that's holy because we also are holy? Then pray using the body of Christ, the body that was broken for us, pray using the heavenly tabernacle, pray using the ark of the covenant from the OT, and anything hinted at as holy in the bible. . . .I'm sure there' no need for me to point out the danger in doing that.

Sysuser,
   I feel for you jare. There is certainly a double standard and unfortunately it is out of our hands. Seun can do whatever he wants.
 

For goodness sake even the guy who threatened him with fatwa is still roaming free within nairaland, yet the Christian seem to be an easy target for banning.

it's a strange world isn't it? I think we just have to accept some grps will enjoy special treatment vs others. and we happen to end up with the short end of the stick. just try sha and be a good boy   

  [quote author=A_K_O link=topic=124301.msg2116539#msg2116539 date=1207171094]It's unfortunate that not a single person is yet able to biblically back on of the most popular practises in the church.
We are still waiting,[/quote]true. It is an extremely popular practice. . . it seems like no one except Tayo had any kind of answer. and Tayo, I am waiting for more . . .

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=124301.msg2115108#msg2115108 date=1207146414]@topic,

Thanks for this topic Jesoul. I have been rather too busy these days to make much contribution on nairaland even though I normally take a peek once in a while.[/quote]you have been missed sir  but thanks for your input here, its a good one.

Let me say upfront that it isn't innaprpriate to use the blood of Christ as a defence in our combat against the evil one. Like 4Him mentioned earlier, Rev 12:11 clearly teaches that our victory is accomplished by the use of the two edged sword of the blood of Christ, and our testimony.

true, point taken.

However, the origin of the use of the blood as a means of defence against the enemy probably originates in Egypt. Remember the passover? The blood of the lamb agaisnt the post of the door provided an escape for the angel of death. That blood of the lamb was a shaow while the blood of Christ is the reality.

One other way to look at this is the fact that there is nothing we can get from God apart from what has been purchased through the blood of Christ. Redemption goes beyond the forgiveness of sins. It includes reconciliation, enrichment, protection, glorification etc. All of these are possible only through that shed blood.
Now if you read through Hebrews 9, you will find that it was required that the blood of Jesus be sprinkled on everything in heaven just as it was done on earth in the OT. This I believe provides the basis for today's use of the blood the way people do. Whether that is innapropriate is left to personal leanings and conviction.

hmmm, intresting.
Couple of points. I see what you mean in saying that we can see that we accomplish everything through the blood of Christ (his sacrifice) anyways.
  However, the sprinkling of blood in heaven was not done by us, but by Him, and it was a one time event. Furthermore it was for the cleansing of those heavenly ceremonial things, not earthly things like our houses and cars etc. . . How then from that can we develop a continual and everyday use of it? on earthly things?

Secondly, in all the examples of prayers in the bible, we don't see any of our great crowd of witnesses or Jesus or the apostles using the blood as a prayer point/tool in the way we use it today. We don't see any application of it in prayers. and we're not taught to pray like that.

Now i know not everything we do is taught or shown in the bible but I think using something as precious and holy and sacred as the blood of Jesus needs some form of justification. Don't you think so?
  Also can I assume you frequently pray using the 'blood of Jesus'? 

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=124301.msg2114947#msg2114947 date=1207143533]@JeSoul,

God will reveal in clear tangible terms those who are christians and those who are not. Each individaul can lay claim to anything but if those claims are not according to the will of God, such claims will collapse like a pack of cards.[/quote]Amen, I agree. And God's word has already told us clearly that we MUST LIVE BY HIS WORDS if we are truly christian. How can one say they are christian but yet don't follow the words of the bible? it's impossible my brother.

I apologise for entering the discussion since I thought it is open to any person to make their contribution. Next time it will be welcomed if initiators of topics on religious threads can state those who are welcome to discuss.

common now I did not mean to offend you, sorry if it came off that way. I was just stating that this topic is based on the bible and needs explanation/proof from the bible. and when you said you don't read the bible that's when i said you'll not be able to contribute. By all means sir feel free to share your opinions, but this discussion specifically calls for biblical proof - i did not mean to say ur opinion or words are not welcome.

Uche2nna:
@ Jesoul

The gospel was and is still being spread , persecution or not. Persecution was infact the actual catalyst that spurned on the spreading of the gospel but once the seed was sown it continued . The genuine missionaries that landed on the shores of Africa came out of their own volition and not because they were persecuted.

[quote author=~Lady~ link=topic=116335.msg2113338#msg2113338 date=1207087572]@ Uche
I think she was hinting at that.[/quote]she was

Uche the gospel is still being spread, there is no doubt about that. What I meant and if you re-read my post is that is wasn't moving as forcefully and ferociously as it had been the pre-Constantine. The missionaries eventually spread out but not as quickly as it had been or as "godly" as it had been (hint the atrocities of the crusades done in the name of God). Like i said the church will prevail no matter what, the gospel will be told to every tribe and nation - that what Jesus Himself said. So even though what Constantine did was detrimental to the church at that time, God still brought out good from it. The gospel has still spread and has reached you and me! - PRAISE GOD for that!

4Him,
my mum uses it all the time too, pastors use it all the time, but for some reason I was never comfortable with it. And have always subconciously pondered why people do it. I guess no one has any answers.
It might just be something someone started that has been passed on from generation to generation. But it is not limited to only africans, afroamericans, whites, hispanic - they all use it too.

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=124301.msg2113149#msg2113149 date=1207082451]@Jesoul,

I am aware of the passages you sited. However they have not expained why the blood of Jesus is required for the remission of sins. I do not quote passages from the bible or books of any religion. If however others quote them, I will state wheather or not I agree with the passages and why.[/quote]I understand you now. It's unfortunate that you are not a christian since you don't live by the bible, but by your own opinions, you'll not be able to contribute to the topic[b] becos it is based on the bible and what it teaches[/b].

I see no one so far knows much about the pleading of "the blood of Jesus" in prayers in todays churches. . . so none of you guys have ever prayed like that before?

I remember the first time I heard someone use it, I wondered then why they did that and till today I still don't get it.