₦airaland Forum

typical atheists spin. First, put a physical interpretation on every phenomen . Most phenomena fit. Logicize it away in physical terms. If it defies logico-physical interpretation dismiss it as farce, a fraud or trickery. E.g Jesus walkg on water. To discourage further mention use scorn and mockery on the story to make it appear even mor ridicolous. If it doesnt dissuade, attack the character of the actor in d story.. E.g calling Jesus an illiterate. Claim tht atheism is an objective logical systematic disbelief in Dieties!! Objective in deed. Logical in deed. More like a willful decision reject God if he exists to refute his existence at all cost usg logical and non logical tools. To deviate frm logical contests to psychological smears (name callg, etc). So much for objectivity..

@labaks
i've som leadg but i dnt thnk a dinstinct voice. Its the nature..of d voice. Cud u percieve d chrctr of d personalty bhnd it. Was it snappy, patient , was it somtin u needd 2 pay attntion 2 catch was it confusable with a thought? Just generally curious. I ask evry body i know who hears questions.

i hope ur decision wnt put d safety of ur life at risk. threats by dem islamists. U know how tetchy these guys can b. Tolerance isnt their culture.. They inevitably want 2 draw bloood and silence those who dont agree with them. U know these waspy atheists in here, theyll want 2 buzz into islam section and pinch sombody.. It cud get out of hand like it always does in matters close to a muslims heart.

Heatblast: Ever heard of proving something beyond a doubt?
For example
1)Nobody doubts his/her exsitence
2)Nobody doubts gravity even though it hasn't been seen before
3)Nobody doubts the existence of nairaland
4)Nobody doubts the existence of an electron even though it hasn't been seen before
5)Nobody doubts that there is a country called China.
I could go on and on, why don't people doubt them you might ask? Simple, because there is "un-doubtable" evidence of their existence. It is not "them say" or "someone said" like these fairy tales you want us to believe... One must remain skeptical and analyse the stories critically before believing.



What of other religious texts like the quran, aren't they suposedly from God?.. They all contradict each other(even themselves) yet they are from a perfect God that seems to evolve in the case of the bible... You don't believe in the other "words of God", you're O.Y.O



This is sickening and annoying. Infact, this is the main reason I quoted your post. Anyway I really don't blame you... You believe that your skin colour is a sign of a curse, because the slave master's religion said so... Take a good look at the japaneese people(yes I use them as an example everytime), they rejected that jewish deity you call 'almight god' kept their culture and accepted only new science, look at where they are today... Compared to Africa where religion was accepted with open arms, look at where we are today, look at the kind of stories you want us to believe, to the extent that some of us even believe that we are cursed.... Smh

haha.. The satan soot aspect piqued som ppl. Read it context instead of liftg my wrds out of text. If i were a public offce holder a lot of folks wudve calld 4 my head.
Somtimes truth hurts.

Theres nothg like a physcally UNDOUBTABLE thing . The examples u gave ar all physcally Verifiable. If there were not U'd doubt . Atheists ar materialsts. If it cannot b Physcally or logically verified. It is not accepted as Truth. Wich is were u guys hav problem wth d bible. The bible clearly enunciates tht some phenomena are beyond d realm of d physical and defy human logic.

On d quoran debate. I'll say u read d bible. U dnt know enuff of christianity 2 make d assrtions u make.
If christians and muslims hav same God ,y will he give both groups diffrent scriptures tht conflict each other. God isnt schizoid. He isnt also d authr of confusion.

Advancement of japan by rejectg religion:
u thnk the bible is against intelligent enquiry.
Far from it.
Solomon in addition to penng scriptures wrote books on nature and animals.
Japanes used their brain .. They were suppose to. Is there anywhere tht says without servg God ur brain will die.? But wrd

Evil Brain: Oh for fück's sake, not this nonsense argument again!

Read this post slowly, so you understand. Natural selection is not a random choice. In fact it is the opposite of random. It is a natural way of picking the most viable option out of countless possibilities.

You mentioned 30 million genes which seperate us from apes. It is true that any one of these genes could become mutated, but what you haven't recognized is that most of those mutations would result in a non-viable organism. Over 75% of all humans ever conceived end up as miscarriages mostly due to genetic mutations.

Of those mutants that survive long enough to be born, most would have diseases that render them sterile or prevent them from reaching adulthood or sèxual maturity. sickle cell disease is a mutation of one single base pair (out of 3 billion) yet even with the best medical care, most sufferers don't live past early adulthood, and very few get to have children.

Only a tiny fraction of your 4^30 million possible mutations could produce a viable adult human capable of reproducing, and that is where natural selection comes in. Living things are constantly competing against each other and its the strong that survive. If you happen to carry a mutation that puts you at a disadvantage to others (eg one that gives you a big ugly nose) you'll be less likely to have children because only ugly girls who can't get normal looking guys will be willing to slèèp with you. And if any kids you manage to have inherit your big nose gene, they'll have the same problem as well. With time your big nose gene will become very rare or die out completely.

On the other hand, the genes that gives you an advantage over others will do the opposite. Imagine a gene that makes African children resistant to malaria. With each generation, more malaria resistant babies will survive, while more of their "normal" mates die. As long as the mutation doesn't have any major disadvantages, it will become more and more common until it eventually becomes the new normal.

And that's the short version of how natural selection, genetic drift and evolution work.

Any questions?

i'm not conversant enuff in d medical/scientifc field to make
sound enuff deductions as i wud like to. A more informed person wud run rings around me.
But even wt dat theyre some logical arguments dat cud b proposed..
Point is to b able to poke holes at
som scientific claims a groundg or sufficient understndg of d scientfc foundation of d partclr field e.g genetcs must b acquired.
U agree wt these.
Same princple applies scripturally, to make an assertion about d bible God, groundg in the framework of the cosmic story must b acquired without wich ur liable to fire lopsided , perverted arguments while contestg ,in pride, for its verity. If i say for example theres is no atg,no dna etc. No dna permutation process frm wich only a small percentage survive , then we cant even reason out. In d same way if atheists deny some given bible facts like man is a Spirit and theres a spirit world.. Reasong bcmes impossible on many issues . Because these assertions are d buildg blocks for higher thoughts like ATG is d buildg block for dna.

[quote author=Area_boy]So when they say we are 1% different from the great apes, we are looking at nearly 30,000,000 (million) different arrangements.[/quote]The alleged ambiguity was , maybe unintentionally, injected by you.
the components are ATG's right. these are the elements in the set.
each ATG IS UNIQUE. which has taken the world so long to map all that compose man.
out of these 3 billion only circa 1% is unique to man.
and these are ,in your words, in differently arranged (combined).
which leads to the factorial(30M)!. my conclusion isnt illogical.

You dont need to be a geneticists to follow simple logic.


if this isnt the case, then you could have worded it differently.
Anyway, fac(30M) is ludicrous. okay.
correction noted.
not fac(30M) but just 30M.

if the building block of dna is ATG,
and these ATG, clump into unique patterns, to form dna,
then the possibilities are : 1.)
the 30M, ATG distinct to man - combine in only one way.
to form a larger entity,which is part of man's overall dna structure.
or they form in more than 1 way, still within the dna structure of the being called man.
great.

The causant is still RANDOMNESS.
IF IT forms in more dan one way - dyu know anoda question becomes apparent?

say you have 30Million txt books to place in a book shelf- and you have 100 sets of this textbooks (i.e 100 humans)
the 30Million text books are arrange in only 1 way for all the shelves.
The books will b placed in the same order e.g biology before chemistry,before, maths.
This leads to a selection AND PRE-ORDERING PROCESS.
because, if chemistry comes before biology, it isnt a man specie.

RANDOMNESS still has to pack the 30Million unique ATG's in a preset format.
this preset format is universal to all human,so there is still only one format.

BUT what if there was an alternative format?
because biology could have been before chemistry or vice versa.

This brings us to the point!!!--
They could have been factorial(30M) possible formats RANDOMNESS CUD have chosen from!
(assuming each of the ATG's is unique)
and it has to be unique to arrive at 30M cuz double counting wudnt be the case.

The question still looms, how did RANDOMNESS select the format in which the 30M unique
ATG's in man's dna is arranged. out of so many other POSSIBLE FORMATS . OUT OF
FAC(30M)..
the question still comes back to you for considering...
the maths is still right...
..

hav u read the book,"Lord,teach me to pray . I am falling asleep"?

it contains a story of a man who commited the "sin against the Holy spirit".

He had backslidden and left church.
held a party with some wordly friends , and there,in a drunken
stupor he asked them , "hey, wanna know what speaking in tongues is like".
Got on a vantage point and started babbling.
But b4 he did it the wife tried to caution him, maybe she wasnt so drunk.
After the show, there was an eerie silence,huh (joke didnt sink in? or what).

fast forward a few years, Man and wife try to get back to Christ.
Wife asks for forgiveness, it works,she's in.
Husband asks for forgiveness,comes out to do the sinner prayer,
pastor pray over him. nothing clicks.
He just feels dead inside. He knows he hasnt been accepted.
Pastor set aside extra time to attend to him- for where? it's like boiling rock- it
didnt soften.
Wife,trust women, sad and broken, begins sobbing.
spills story out.

I've remembered that story so long. its always on my mind.
And most of the people who read the book, i bought it, my mom read it,
and she shares that story with her friends etc..
guess its a shocking tale.

That's the only example i've had of the sin against the holy spirit.
@OP
when i read the first few lines of the story above i knew it was KEH!!.
read that story in "Bible prayer study guide"..

musKeeto: I weep for you. I have no other choice.

Africa is number 1 in 'worthless' things because of folks like you; the type that ensure their brain and its power to reason is dispensable upon encountering seemingly 'illogical' scenarios.

I would like to address your Satan theory but it might not be worth it..






Do you think the reports are true? Are all reports true?

I've met a man who can jump over 2-storey buildings. Do you believe this?

you've not said anything ..
you weep for me? why.
cuz you believe everything can be logically explained?
and i say in life you'll encounter things that defy logic.
if you live in africa, where bizzarity is often reported (read-cannot be logically explained are rife).
some are false others are no doubt true. attested to by myriads of eye witnesses.
Your narrow definition of reality isnt even provable.its an assumption , you uphold too..
assuming it to be true.
You atheist try to shoe horn everything into a logical mould , like i said you will try to with this stories,
and if that doesnt fit, you banish , all inexplicable (inexplicable to man) phenomena
as fabrications.
I'm not emotional to weep for you folks. but i acknowledge this traits in you folks.

you will explain your own slant not the bible.
The bible says, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The truth is so fine and sure that , it takes the grace of God to reveal it to man,
all truths come from God in case you dont know.
And human's have believed lies for so long- so long - our lives have been wrecked.
Now upholding your assumptions to the scriptures it fails.

The bible says the HOLY SPIRIT will guide you into ALL truth..

keep your mind open to God's word. dont fight the truth wen it is revealed to you.

The human body is kept alive by the human spirit. James 2vs28.
When the human spirit leaves the human body - we have what we know of as physical death.
But as long as the spirit is in the body, the body remains alive.

How then can the spirit be in the body and the body is dead. a contradiction..
in fact wen ppl die you say they breath their last.
That breathing of their last breath, for those who die uneventfully, release the spirit
from the body, either thru the nostrils , or mouth. typical out routes.
With the spirit out the body,the body becomes still,lifeless,because the human body has
no life of its own. its the spirit that moves the body,speaks thru the vocal cords,
sees thru the eyes,
thinks thru the brain.
(that's why the acheivements of man, surpasses wat the physical entity called the brain
can generate, it is the spirit of man that really does the thinking ... too deep for some)
but the sooner you understand you are a spirit , the easier it is to understand the bible
. cuz its a book of spirits by a spirit(God) for other spirits !.

christemmbassey: if ppl go to heaven/hell at death, do we expect them to come back from heaven/hell to face judgement?.

Rev 20v13:
-------------
"and the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell, gave u the dead which
were in them: and they were judged every man according to his works.

This passage must have been written for this day on nairaland

If the departed spirits , dont go anywhere, then this must have been the principle right befor time. because God isnt a changelin.
meaning,the first man adam,must still be in the grave with his body. huh.
what happens when the body disintegrates into soil?! the spirit remains where!!

the body is the container for the spirit- ? when the body is gone what does the spirit
stay contained in?
THINK.

3.) Jude vs 9.
Satan disputed for Moses Body. ( spirit implied)
Why wud satan want to do that,if He didnt want to drag him off to hell - a place of torment. Wud satan dispute just to watch over it?
Y did the Angel come for moses if not to take him off some where?

the market for heaven/hell story patronizers is fed by marketing crooks..
some of these books are produced with no other intent but to make money and milk gullible
mugus.
robert lairdons new book on heaven - we saw heaven- to me, wasnt worth it.
for somebody who's read his first book, i saw heaven, the new book was mainly a summary
of the first one plus some pads of other sketchy heaven stories. i was really dissapointed
after i read it.

90 minutes in heaven: -
the author visited heaven after he was unconscious in a car accident.
the summary of the heaven visit, is that he arrived at the gate of heaven,
nver got it, saw his grand father who was smiling at him,
regained consciousness. The rest of the book centers around his hospital and recovery experience.
Frauds.
I mean, how low ppl will go in the name of religion.
The typical buyer will be expecting much more only to be soundedly dissapointed
after the first few pages.

A nigerian man, went to heaven and hell. in hell women who permed their hair were cast into it!! wat.. any scriptures for this.
the book circulated in a church that had all these ultra strict dress code rules.

however, if one is going there its good to read up on wat one is to expect.
At the end of the day,the important things one has to know to avoid heat treatment
is in the bible. and the hell mentality/ heaven mentality is really know way to really
live. fear of hell, or postponing living cuz of heaven hope is foolishness.
There's a purpose one is on earth, and its not to live in fear or postponement.

christemmbassey: A preacher visited me last week and told me about two books that some one gave to him, according to him, after reading just a few pages he was so afraid that even as he was talking to me , he was so confused and affraid whether he will make heaven. Brethren, the books are about these people who claim that , they died, went tn heaven and/or hell and the messages they brought back from God and what they experience and saw. Are these stories true? What are the biblical supports to such experiences if any? Are ppl going to hell/heaven now as they die? God bless as we discus this new trend.

mister poster, Y cant you mention the names of the books the said pastor read!!
wont that me informative to the readers of this post?
I've read some books about heaven and hell. and diff'rnt testimonies.
One jolted me so seriously i was in shock mode for circa a week.
That's because i wasnt going to church,praying , reading the word,
i never attend mid week services.
And in the book, most saints were outside heaven, loiterring,
in the brown robes, their sin? missing mid week services!!!

omo. it wasnt funny. and still isnt it. The message i got was t hat ,
Heaven isnt as easy as modern pentecostal's make it.
In christianity now, almost anything goes - and condonement of everything sin is increasing.
The book is "heaven is so real" - by choo thomas.

Others are "mary baxter" - hell is real. her "heaven is real book " seemed a bit boring.
But one of the more interesting heaven books are - jesse duplantis - "heaven,close encounters of a God kind"
Todd burpo - a boy who visited heaven as a 5 year old boy or so. i listened to it in mp3.
really cool.
roberts lairdon - i saw heaven. nice.

youtube videos- on hell too. like the one , where michael jackson, the pope , this popular
musician who died (a lady). etc.
what shocked me in the narrative is that after the rapture the HOLY SPIRIT will be taken
away from earth!! - without holy spirit you can't be born again.
busting the myth, of most end time messages, that yadda yadda after the rapture ppl can still be born again etc. most ppl have conditioned their minds to miss the rapture
and make it up during the tribulation years..
I believe the youtube video anyway.
But ive seen,that fear can't really make you change. after a while it wears off and
dulls so you go back to your old way.
sad but true.
But if its any consolation, focus on the heaven bits. there some really nice
books on them.if you cant find a book read the book of revelations..
it really soothing when you get used to it.

in the choo thomas book, non tithers are theives, and will go to hell.
in the youtube video, a pastor was in hell , for not paying his tithe! or is stealing tithe money.
on sad one was the 8 year old boy in hell!! for disobeying his mum.
not big disobedience o!! - ignored the mum, ran out of the house, got hit by a car-
took the speed train to helly.
so sad.. "junior, came and wear your shoe" - junior: "no, lemme alone "..
those kind things fit send pikin to hell!!!
in choo thomas book, he very nice mother, not a christian but so tender and nice
was in hell.
she just ddnt accept Jesus christ.
choo thomas, cousin , a 17 year old was in there too.
so was her father.
in the youtube video, it like a lorry offloads sand into a pit, every so often,
but the grains in the huge pile of sand is a human soul!!
that's how the pile up to make it down there.
It's scary ,cuz sin is part of modern church culture. pastor will stand at pulpit and tell shameless exaggerations .. choir sister screw like dogs. brothers are he-goats.
no diff'rence btw church and world.
but its better to be scared now and change than - go there. any way, people will still make heaven,pple will make the rapture. no be goat Jesus go rapture. so its possible to
make it.

^^^
wow, "30 000 000 different combinations" of the dna makes man distinguishable from primates.
assuming,i'm not a scientist, the combination of these 30 million atg's or cells or watever,
is fixed for all mankind. i.e it is universal dna trait peculiar to humans,
then the possibility of selecting this combination from the 30 million possible combination
would be very small.
And the selector you say is - randomness. nature working its random picks.
the possible combinations wold be a very large number. 30 000 000!.
factorial of 30 000 000.
even a powerful hand calculator will tell give an error message if you try to generate the factorial of 100.
a wrong selection wuld have created beings probably worse than the chimps
but the choice selection , suprisingly made a wise pick...
ridiculous.
randomness doesnt possess such intuition.

Niflheim: Women do not give birth to horses except in Scandinavian Mythology!!!The baby holding a quran was propaganda by the parents and the midwives!!!

Like i foretold in my previous post.. you'll find a way to deny it..
And fellow atheists will back up your denial...

2good: Meaningless post with no direction. I

normally avoid debating with religious people because their

reasoning is very skewed. I posted quote from d bible that is

suppose to have come from your God and instead of facing those

quotes, you went off point talking about king. Use your brain

to reason and stop allowing pastors to think for you,

stop the emotional venting and deal logically.
You quote what you liked in your bias and i countered with

equal quotes negating your
preferred quote. The science and logic you adhere to operates

like a balance-
pound for pound, there more counter evidence for you assumed

harshness of GOD than there is
- what dyu say about those. its equal evidence same

scriptures.
you wnt to make a logical argument b ut admit only one class

of evidence.!!
Like i said - you dont even know enuff to judge.
To critique a system you must know how it works- you dont

know nada about how God's system
works!! You dont know his motives , his rights or boundaries

? Yet you want to judge!!
that's a judgement based on ignorance.

p.s:
------
since you decided to pass judgement on the person of God, I

first asked you if know what a king is?
because you judge unfairness without even knowing who you are

talking about,
his rights and priviledges (legally) and the scope of his

power.
YOu accuse him of being wicked ,unjust - etc.
But what class of person are you talking of . A KING not a

democratic president.

Your views of fairness/justice is tainted by the democratic

culture you've lived in.
in most governments, royalty is subject to the ruling

government . democracy, military,fascist etc.
This wasnt the case before.
In a true kingdom. The king is answerable to know one .
The king owns all property in the land.
the King can do as he pleases and no one can question him.
The word of the King is incontestible.

(You think this is the situation where
a journalist can cuss a president in print and get away with

it.the democratic situation)

The king is responsible for protecting the lives of his

subject, those under his domain.

A King has retinue of officers to do help him carry out his

will/bidding :
(soldiers ,administrative staff,etc)



Legal rights:
in law if you buy something you own it, and can do as you

please with it.
you can buy a brand new designer dress and use it to mop

the floor if u so please.
How you use what belongs to you, cannot be contested

legally.


Now using this frame work:
Visit the Bible God and assess his rights and privildges.

to judge him as a despot king
etc.

- ownership. God created the earth and all in it . it is his.
if he wants he can do wat he likes with his and still be

legally justifiable!!
u can paint a painting and later tear it up.
writers write a draft many times and tear them up,

because they arent satisfied
with the quality. Think of how ridiculous it wud be to

arrest an author for
tearing his drafts!!.
- God creatd man - God bought back Man! thru the death and

resurrction of Jesus.
every saved person is a property of God!!!-
- God's word is incontestible. He speaks and it stands fast.

no one can make it fail.

- God's word - wages of sin is death - : incontestible.
the atonement for sin is by blood: incontestible.
Sin must be atoned for , for it to be removed. else it

must be accounted for.

Legally:
----------
Legally, satan has a right to anyone under him. very legal.
His kingdom is called the kingdom of darkness.
God cannot legally take what belongs to satan.
God can by his ability take what belongs to satan without

legality.
So to redeem mankind from the rulership of satan,
he had to do so legally
. Jesus came as man and (you knw the story).
Now God can legally , free man from satan. But at man's will

not by force.
Man has to come forward and accept CHRIST , satan can't stop

man , God wont force man.

God operates as a king but completely legally.
To bind himself to some legal parameters in dealing with man,
God set his word , and adheres to HIS WORD.
That's why the Bible says, He (God) has magnified his word

above himself. or name .

Using this parameters and background on God your arguments

become nonsense and inadmissible. That's why i said do you

know who a king is.

You have the full rights to reject God's offer. And He will

ensure You wish isnt violated.
But doing so makes you a citizen of satan's kingdom not God's

kingdom.
And a king is king only within his domain, God can't be

responsible for citizens
outside his own domain. Though He in his sovereignty is still

good to all.

if you look at the book of job , you see legality at play:
Satan needed permission to test job.
God is the Judge of the whole earth!! -
legality/kingship/justice system(sin and its atonement) - just one of the facets you have to understand
about God before throwing your accusative darts at God.

I dont want to expatiate further- you wont be able to

understand with your fickle reasoning and inherent biase.

thank you for the question because u can twist either way.
A being with only 1 percent chromosomal difference from an ape
invented all the stuff we see.
And this says wat? theoretically, it cud be argued that such acheivements
are impossible with just 1% diff btween man and ape.
it cud be argued that the permutation during evolution that created the
slight change in the dna structure, cudnt have occured by chance.
Because randomness cannot create precise working highly efficient systems (humans)
no matter the number of times the properties[dna constituents] are juggled and then willfully select
the most/or more efficient combination(from a universe of possibly ineffective dna combinations). that's givng too much credit to chance -- which is wat atheists
are left with ,if they chose to doubt in an Intelligent creator.

events like this defy logical explanation. its spiritual-no doubt about it.
For atheists who think this is all matter, they should try their hands at explaing away this. trust them, they'll deny the events because they're no PHYSICAL PROOF -
their criteria for physical proof is unsatisfiable.
it shud have happened b4 their eyes
- if it was filmed on camera , it cud have been faked etc
- if they saw with their eyes, it could have been faked
or mayb they cud have been having an illusion
bla bla bla.
fact- you can always come up with a doubt.
I think this is one reason Y God in his wisdom wont stoop down to try to prove himself
by providng some form of physical evidence. He has given the world his word.
A bible is as easy to lay hands on as a cell phone and is cheaper.
if you dont believe His word - you're on O.Y.O.
No time to play them illusionary games.

that said- th is i africa- such stuffs still happen. wonder whether satan landed in africa when he was cast out!!
and the soot from the fall darkened our skins!!?
Y is africa number 1 in worthless things? juju blackmagic etc. ... but last in worthy things??

of course i'm on my own.
because this is a passive forum where one cant even get a decent reply to anythng.
i was gambling that the over 1m members here could be a plus.
In foreign forums, only i dont know of them, response rate is better...

guy, dump tht cheap cheater like a hot iron and clean up ur life for d next better one to com into ur life... She wudve continued d game into Marraige probly if she wsnt caught.. More over its clear she aint really repentant of her atrocities.

it can swing either way. Never had a successful hukup wth a fair skin. Dark skin rocks..

@labaks me atheists ? Far frm it. Now answer d Q. I'm alwayz interestd wen sb says he heard from God...

labaks: I agree with u on this.
@Op, even if one prays from morn till night, if you don't live a holy life, u can't hear nothing. when u pray too, try not to put ur mind elsewhr but focus on your prayer. Pray quietly in a quiet place. U don't need to shout when talking to God. The more quietly u speak to God, the more u hear Him speak.
I never used to believe God speaks until one day in church when we were asked to pray quietly(2 months after i became born again). Do u know I prayed that God shld do something for me, and I swear I heard a voice (what I should do). I didn't know what happened, I opened my eyes, looked around, didn't see anybody, I closed my eyes again and I still swear to you that immediately I closed my eyes again, I heard the same instruction again. I was scared and just sat down and closed my eyes.

God indeed speaks! All u need do study the bible daily, pray regularly and live a holy life.

d samuel experience. "what shud i do?" . I laffed. Was d voice booming?

and wat about them? Wat do they prove?
So much for a meangless ancient story u spend so much time researchg on to discredit.
How about john 3.16? It's in d same bible.
Job 42 - in d same bible.
Wat about Jesus who spared a woman frm being stoned with a right word.
Wat about "cast all ur care upon him for he cares 4 u"
wat about nothg can separate us from d lov of God in christ Jesus.

I cud quote reams more and ask u the same question? "wat about these ones too? Or arent they in d same bible . Acts of d same God?".
You see wat u want to see. Ur so called objective criticism is rotten with bias.

Also dyu know wat sin is its gravity its impact,repercussion,penalty? U dnt knw enuff to utter a critism.

Dyu know who a King is, his power, scope of authority,
rights and priviledges.

Dyu know d law. And wat is legal or not and its application in d bible?

You and no atheists knows enuff to judge.
U thnk God govmnt is a democracy where the vote of d ppl counts or must b curried to gain/remain in power.

First remove those blinders frm ur eyes b4 postg ur next critique.

I cud answer ur question in detail but tht wud b a waste of time

it depends on wat u ar prayg about. Sometimes even a word of prayer is a waste of time.
War fare:
in the OT moses lifted up his arms while isreal fought its enemies , while he did, isreal was winng but he got tired and had 2 b supported by 2 ppl.

Daniel's prayer was answered on d first day, an angel was dispatched but an opposition , prince of persia and his gang,
delayed the results.

Joshua fightg his enemies,
asked God to make d sun stand still so he cud hav more daylight to wrk with.

Morale pray(fight) till d job is done. Complete victory.



2. Intercessory prayer

abraham kept askg God wat if x amount of men in sodom and g were righteous.
E.g a mom prayg 4 a wayward child, or prayg to break a habit - ths kind of prayer takes time.. It is compared to travailg in child birth. Not biscuit and chewg gum prayer.

Prayer to know God's will:

in som matters, God's will isnt expressly known. U hav 2 job offers,whch dyu chose.
Who shd i marry? Shud i travel ? Etc.
Ex. Jesus in d garden of gethsamene prayg tht God take d cup he was to bear, he prayed till his sweat bcame blood. Till his will was totally submerged wth the father's will.
David , wen his wives and children were taken hostage by an enemy army kept askg God thru an oracle shud i pursue.

Thanks givg:
the idea is to praise intensely - can take time. Paul and silas in prison. Praised and praised till God reacted and shook d prison with earthquake.

Petition prayers:
gimme prayers. This require d least time but d one ppl often wear themselves out on.
The principle is know wat is urs as a child of God and take it, as your faith can bear.
E.g som1 havg insomnia , wud find d verse sayg "he giveth his beloveth sleep.", believe, thnk God 4 it and go to sleep. And keep blvg (fightg the gud fight of faith) till his insomnia levels totally dissapear.
Same goes for askg for bigger thngs but ppl like to blv only wen the problem dissapears (walkg by sight) and thts not how it works so they pray at the top of their lungs, increase d prayer time, add fastg etc and generally end up frustrated.. . because theyre doing it wrng!

ur question is a leadg one. U cud as well ask shud churches disregard d bible in d face of rising anti christian norms. The law always bows to societal pressure. Lobbyng law makers to pass favorable bills is the order. Man made legal systems are malleable.
Dyu know wat marraige symbolises? Wat does d white dress stand for? It stands for purity. Marraige is a symbol of christ and his bride,d church, and Jesus is rapturing a church without spot,blemish,or wrinkle.
Coming to d alter representg purity with evidence of fornication, is mocking of christian principles.
It is encouraging d un married not to take pre marital continency seriously.

The pregnant couples can still marry and b blessed by a minister but it shudnt b a white weddg or a weddg at all. They cud have a private ceremony or go to a registery (legal) then get a minister to pronounce a blessing.
Or d woman can deliver d baby then come for d wedding (pretence - bt most wedded couples hav been screwg each other already).

Evil Brain: ^^^^
I'm not even going to bother arguing with you since you clearly don't want to think rationally.

You think human beings are interchangeable like 10 naira notes? You think its okay to kill people to win a bet? You that the presence of Satan absolves god of responsibility for the evil acts he visited on Job and his family?

And maybe you should look up the definition of psychopathy in that your dictionary. I think you'll find that it fits your god like a custom made condom.

there's nothg rational about ur arguments.theyre out of context and biased twrds ur favred viewpoint. First,u hate God then u look 4 scriptures to justify ur hatred. A psychopath displays wanton violent bhvior.. U hav no scriptures to support these accusation Yet u push it as logical.
Since want 2 appear objective, u shud know God cant do bets because he is all knowg, satan isnt all knwg and wanted to prove a point with job.
Job recovered all -lost time,money,children. Theologians estimate jobs trials to have spanned about 9 months.
His short affliction wrought greater good.
God owns evrythg on earth includg humans by legal fact tht He created them.this includes job's children. U can do wat u like with ur property.absolutely anythg u like. God isnt accountable to no man 4 His actions. God choosg to b a good God and respect human will is out of his inherent nature which is Love. If God were wicked and tyrannical He wud still b legally justified.

Since ur tryg 2 b objectve, y havnt u railed against Satan?..
His motto is : kill,steal,destroy.
..he is responsible for the actual attacks in job's life.
Y dnt u emphasize the Good acts of God which is all over d bible. U purposely ignore them 2 make a biased point. "and God blessed the later end of job", "and God blessed..","and God heard his/her prayer","and God gave:..","and God fought for ...", "and God remembered his promise...", "and God prospered the works of...", .
"and God had Compassion on..."
U cant read the OT without seeing these verses.
Hate God all u like but
Stay objective wen claimg to make logical points.

christemmbassey: it is a pity if someone like you is saying that the story of Lazarus and the rich man actully happened, its a pity, am sorry i have to say that. I thought you will address the issues raised in my earlier post, namely, 1. Has Jesus change his mind on his 2nd coming? 2 has the holy spirit fail God for God to now decides to abandon the holy spirit and use humans to do the work as recorded by John?, if you think ppl who died now either go to heaven or hell, what about 2thes4:16?. God bless.

mister , pls dnt dceiv urself or let anybody dcve u. The story of lazarus is a reality. There's nothg like soul sleep etc thnk of jesus comment on d cross to d repentant theif: "today you will b with me in paradise".. So tht theif's spirit was not soul sleepg. If it was a parable, it wud hav been titled d parable of d richman and lazarus. Jesus said lazarus died and was carried to Abraham, if this isnt so Jesus lied.
It must b so.
Apostle paul said he is torn btw 2 options, to die and go be with christ or to stay.. He didnt say to die and soulsleep.

cyrexx: in response to the bolded:

Any logical and thinking person who doesn't like to lose his senses to backward religious mentality will do well to ignore posts like this and face the true reality of life.

Religion/god will never solve man's problems. That's why religious folks will always tell you to work in addition praying to god.

Why work if prayer to god is effective in the first place?

you dont know wrk is as religious as it gets,in d bible!.

- Jesus wrkd hard.
- noah wrkd for years buildg an ark.
- prosperity is hinged on hard work in d bible
- laziness and idleness are condemned many times in d bible
- God doesnt slumber or sleep. Prayer is open 24/7.
- God watches over his word to perform it (sounds like work)
- faith without works (correspondg action) is dead
- drowsiness will clothe a man with rags (irrelevant advice?)
- diligent hand shall bear rule
- diligent will stand b4 kings
not ordary men.
- God gives d first man wrk to do

[quote author=cyrexx]
Any logical and thinking person who doesn't like to lose his senses to backward religious mentality
[/quote]make ur research b4 shootg of unfounded accusations like this.

Logicboy03: Well said.

It is christians that are worked up.

Saturday mornings and sundays, I am woken up by bells ringing and chanting from a nearby church.
At work, some foolish supplier puts in Rhapsodies of Realities (A church booklet) with every delivery
At home, the girlfriend forces me to watch nollywood films on dstv and at the end of every film; "To god be the glory"
Drinking beer at the local joint, some guys are wearing rosaries.....


Bombarded with God and yet the op is saying that we shouldnt talk about him?
If the christians could practice their religion in peace and in moderation, would I have anything to say?
Do you see atheists bashing pagans?

you've not made anypoint. The counter argument "if he is real, y get worked up" is not an answer.
Its like sayg if a chair is real y sit on it. The preacher,rhapsody poster is actg out their belief (witnessg. For d rhapsody guy, giving God d glory for d nollywood folks) . The pastor wth d loud speakers disturbg d neighbourhood is a noise pollutant.. Though this is a trend as if loud noise is more effectve. But the crwd may justify volume.


If he is real, sombdy who's xperiencd Him b4 cud get wrked up, just like ppl get wrkd up about
pop stars,celebrities, intellectuals etc perfectly understandable.
But inapplicable in d reverse.
These folks dnt exert tryg 2 prove his reality(to doubters) but rather to experience
his reality for thmselves.

Y will exert over somtin not real.?

d girl is livin wth d guilt evryday. So ur unqualified acceptance of Her mayb a healing to her. She made a mistake, dnot beat her over d head wt it. We humans ar selfish we thnk only of our own selves. A girl had aids and was hospitalzed , all d parents were weapg about was d shame d girl brought on them. D bf came and wept 2, dat she had given him aids ... Its selfish world. If u lov her dis will b an exercise in lovg som1 (her daughter) wit no thg in it 4 u.

buy her a doormat with ur name on it (knitted/woven/inscribed).

time has somfin 2 do with it. U need 2 put in x amount of time to gain proficiency. Age doesnt change the time cost. (or shdnt).