₦airaland Forum

Sewgon79:
Okay I think Yoruba could be said to be a tribe, because Yoruba is a nation of its own with different sub ethnic with same languages, cultural backgrounds and same traditions. All of same Ancestors, Ile ife.

Yeah. But if we are not colonised and divided and enslave. Yorùbá is a tribe of different ethnic groups, e.g. Ègún, Ekiti, ijebu, Ọ̀yọ́, Ondo, tàpá, ọwọ, though they all have their different dialect, kind of local language. But primarily share common general language which is Yoruba.

Sewgon79:
A tribe is group of people, ethnics with common interest, language, culture and traditions. So that make Yoruba a tribe. Out of Yoruba you have, Ekiti, Ìjẹ̀sà, awori, ègún, ijebu, yewa, Ẹ̀gbá, Ondo, ọwọ, etc

TerraCotta:
I stay away from these types of discussions but wanted to point out that “ogie” probably does not strictly mean “king” in Edo. It more closely matches up with a title of nobility like “duke” or “baron” in English, which tallies up with cognate terms like “oye/oloye” in Yoruba and related languages. The “gh” (as in “oghene”) is called a voiced velar fricative in linguistics and is regularly pronounced as “-y” or “-w” or elided altogether in modern standard (Oyo) Yoruba, although it’s retained and still prominent in both northeast and southeast variants of Yoruba and in Igala. This suggests it’s an older inherited sound that changes in the Oyo-speaking region.

Might be interesting insights for anyone interested in this.

MetaPhysical:
It is common knowledge that Yoruba had a library of written historical accounts prior to our entry into English colonization and the language of missionaries.

There were written records in Portuguese that documented trade and politics between Yoruba and Portugal, Spain and even Dutch.

Religion was never part of it.

Our history got fvckd up when English missionaries started teaching Bible. Anything contrary to Jesus and Christianity was deleted or suppressed and our customary belief system turned upside down on itself.

So you cannot denounce Yoruba's claim to Mecca when in fact Christian missionaries are on record denouncing our indigeneous holy worship and practices as "heathenism". The same missionaries that said Yoruba is not from Mecca are also the ones that said ESU is devil.


Check this out, this was before missionaries. Where are the Yoruba records of trade and political exchange with Portugal? The second is from a work archived in Johns Hopkins. It is an indictment on Yoruba historians laxity for scholarship.

Our historians are not interested in originality, they only go after works already pioneered and archived as history by English white men...much of which is counter to oral history told by custodians of the records.

English is the mainstream of our knowledge and societal living styles, hence it is the authority which now speaks for our history also. If any author writes of the Meccan story he is immediately attacked.

Meanwhile we dont have historians taking initiatives to explore the history of Yoruba trade with Portugal in 1700s or 1600s because it is not in mainstream language and missionaries took no interest in it. They simply collected them and dumped in their repositories back in England and locked up.

We do not have honest and objective historians. What we have are mouthpieces for English religion and authority on Yoruba beginnings.



https://muse.jhu.edu/article/593137/summary

Sarah20A:
ogiso was chosen as a name for those leaders so that the people will see them as leaders that were sent by God from the sky not that they fell from up

I may not be educated as you are but I can vouch that there was never a time that the Benins claimed that they fell from the sky instead it was the yorubas that claimed that oduduwa fell from the sky

The Benins only believe that when God created the world their ancestors chose the land instead of the sea and sky and that's one the reason their colours are red and white.
The red which stand for the mother earth (mud sand)the white which stand for purity and holiness (native chalk)


I am aware that there's a lot of conspiracy theories about Benin and history as a whole that is why I will never comment or argue what am not sure of .

Why is it only in nairaland that you like claiming supremacy over Benin ?why don't you go out there on Facebook or raise an argument in a TV station station if you're really sure of what you're saying

Sewgon79:
I am very sorry for the tone of my language. What I meant is that maybe you should do more finding so as to clarify. I hope you didn't find it insultive cuz I am just trying to clarify things I read about Yoruba.

Sorry for my early expression.

Sewgon79:
Sorry for disappointing you on this one. But my brother, this is not myth. It is reality. There are tribes living in Mecca and those Middle East before the invasion of Arabs. That does not make them Arabs, they have their culture, heritage and traditions. But whenever invaders come, they always force their own culture on them. Examples are the West Indice of American, The Mayans, The Aborigine. This are the local, but whenever invaders comes on them. They always turn the stories upside down.

My friend, I am from ijebu, there is a place where an icon and female legend was buried and backdated to around (B.C) I guess you know what that means. Before Christ and the burial grave is still there today. Her name is BALIKIS. She is personal bodyguard to Queen Sheba of Ethiopia. I mean same queen Sheba that her story was written in the Bible of her adventure with King Solomon.

The burial ground was engraved with ancient semitics language of those days, cuz in those days, it is isreal and Arabs that rules them. So they have to learn in their language to be able to communicate.

Same way, English colonise us and impose English as a way of writing and communication. This speaks in way we write, communicate, translate and do things. Seriously it is what you learned that you will be able to communicate with.

If you doubt it, please I will urge you to visit ìjebu òde and ask a town called ÒKÈ ERI.

Please don't let us rewrite a story that is not their. Yorùbá story are told and I have know this story. And even Wikipedia confirm it to be true. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odùduwà).

Yoruba are the real aborigène of Mecca before Arab invasion. In every developed nation. We always have the aborigines before invaders. Even Australia of today, still have their real aborigènes.

They are the real owners. Also do you realise that Yoruba Language is similar to semitics language of this day Turkish, Asia and so on.

FOR example those languages are taken out of Yoruba e.g Turkish language for work is (ìṣ) while Yoruba Language for work is (Ìṣe). Almost same.

You need to do your research well and study well, you will realise all this.

Thank you.

Sewgon79:
Odùduwà is not an Arab man, but according to my findings. There are aborigines living in that land called mecca before the Arab came to pursue or wage war on them. This cause them to desert their land to find a new part. This is common things that happened those days. That is most reason for cross migration.

Then history said Lamurudun who is the father of ODÙDUWÀ and leader of his tribe migrate to a place now called ILẸ̀ IFE. According to my findings on his way coming from Middle East, some of his people who are tired settle in place like Nupe, Borgu and they are Ibariba people.

There have always been a kind of ethnic relationship between tapa and Yoruba. So Lamurudun died on the way, could not reach ILẸ̀ IFE with his people, but his son ODÙDUWÀ took his people to the promise land which is today called ILẸ̀ IFE. The Ancestry home of all Ọmọ Oodua.

So, the history even said that he met some settler in Ìfẹ́ and he introduced the kingship and kingdom administration which Yoruba are known for till today.

Odùduwà gave birth to Okanbi. And it is history that the birth of Oranmiyan came through the mate of ODÙDUWÀ and his son Okanbi with same woman.

That is why it is believe that Oranmiyan is special and powerful, he left ilé ifẹ on special invitations of people of ILẸ̀ IBINU from Ogiso by asking Île ife to send his Prince to help structure the kingship and kingdom of Ado (Edo) . So Oranmiyan went to ilé Ado (Edo) but on getting, he found out that they were aggressive, some of the local chief disagree with the way he ruled them. Spying on him everywhere. He created the structure of kingship and became the first Ọba of Benin. He married one their chief daughter who gave birth to Eweka.

The rebellion within the ADO (EDO) people was too much, so Oranmiyan left everything to go back to ifẹ. So after some time the Ogiso came to beg for him to come back, he said he will not go back to ILẸ̀ IBINU (now known as ILẸ̀ BENIN) instead he asked they should crowned his SON (EWEKA) who is legit direct descendant of ODÙDUWÀ.

Cc
Metaphysical
TAO11
gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun

Sarah20A:
you people are lying despicable cunning human beings

When did the Benins ever say they came the sky?so because the first dynasty was ogiso then you people want to shift your watering claim to the Benins


Jesus I fear una today ooo.you people are bunch of liars
I now believe why the hausa's gave you people the name 'yariaba"

Sarah20A:
I didn't say oba is an abbreviation in Edo language,oba is an abbreviation of "OMO NOR OBA NE EDO ".

oba has a meaning in edo language and please if you know that you're allergic to other people history or language then you should stick with your king who fell from the sky.

TAO11:
You comprehend the gist in its absolute sense. Kudos!

The alien term left them in confusion till date.

In linguistic, to make sense of a loanword etymologically, one have to go back to the donor language.

Otherwise, a confusion similar to that engulfing the Binis here at the moment, will engulf such person.

gregyboy:
Yea ogie is king


The oba can still be referred as ogie nothing changed the world oba is not just king alone but also a form of praise( representing two purposes)

Omo no oba n' edo (the child that shines for the edo people)

In this contest both the word oba is serving as praise and representing king



Tell me my friend how did the yorubas bring the word oba to benin

Sarah20A:
the Benins never claimed supremacy over the yorubas it's you people that can't narrate your history without mentioning the Benins

I only explained the meaning of this few words so that the yorubas should know that oba doesn't mean king in Benin .

Sarah20A:
is omo nor oba not omo oba



Omo nor oba =the child that shines

Omo oba =child of light

Omo =child

Oba=shine,red

Nor=that,what

Obanosa=shines like god(

Ogie nor ki so re(ogiso)=king from the sky
=is also to describe God king

Omo nor oba ne Edo = the child that shines in Edo

Oba is an abbreviation, when introducing the oba of Benin his title or his name must be called in full that's where you hear 'omo nor oba ne Edo 'uku-Apkolokpolo oba Ewuare.

Hope you now understand that the yorubas meaning of oba is different from the Benin

RamessesIV:
Lol so because of some racist in faraway europe that's why you're doing all this,lol white people said you don't have history so you're making up yours To prove what So what will the ones in native america and Australia do?

And when I refer to "negro" I refer to dark-skinned people of sub-saharan ancestry,funny how black history these days is always about the middle east and north africa and not sub-saharan africa itself �����

DigitalBrands01:
Welcome to a world where native doctors now command more respect than the Clergymen.

You could imagine the Comments if this man was a clergyman

Anyway, I will Design a company Logo for 2k Only or Website for your Product or Company. Info below

gregyboy:
Oghene is nupe, ife, Zimbabwe


Among the three ife is the least considered

Ife has been finally removed,
Because there was never a relationship with benin

gregyboy:
You think we will descredit everything our oba said for self gains
I don't think so


Oghene has already been disproved

So rest

Edeyoung:
You forgot that the same article he quoted was written by a European


That is not an excuse my friend.

If he cant bring written document then he should bring archeological findings

Edeyoung:
Lol,


You go soon loose faith for your religion my hand nor dey ooh,

I believe in every story there is a truth underneath

gregyboy:
If you can reference me anywere in European account were they recorded benin and ife had contact over thier 600years trading in benin

If you have any archeological record to replace documented account fine that will be nice


There is a need now to retrace our true history that was altered in the former western all in a bid to yorubanise everyone

AreaFada2:
Yoruba hate? Why? To you guys anyone who is not wholly bashing other tribes on behalf of Yoruba is a hater.

Like Dino, FKK and Afenifere are called Omale.

As a people/family we suffered that under Pa Awo and his supporters decades ago already, not new to us. I wrote about it here a few weeks ago.

That I disagree with the lot of you speculating wildly is not Yoruba hate. In fact I believe the loudest and most insulting people here claiming Yoruba cannot tell us their direct lineage to a second class Oba in Yorubaaland. In fact most are Nupe and Igalla immigrants to Yorubaaland.

My relative on the other hand sits proudly and gallantly as first class king. For centuries now.
No, I do not agree with all European writers of old.

I have seen a couple that appear not to have reached Benin at all but gave a widely off the mark description. Painting Benin as an Islamic empire. Basically forging another Mansa Musa story. I quickly dismissed it however gloriously presented it was. In fact it was Caucasian course mate at university who drew my attention to one such.

AreaFada2:
That is one thing playing on the mind of some tribes. Supremacy by hook or by crook.
How does the truth, whatever it is make anyone inferior or superior in 2020?

I for one have nothing to loose which ever originates from whom. I am at home in Eastern Yorubaland as I am at home in Benin. And there are many out there like me.

Benin just need the truth. If that means scientific work involving a targeted DNA analysis, so be it.

In fact I have long volunteered my widow's mite towards that. But it seems all people wanted to do is quote European adventurers and tribally based publications than do anything supported by more reliable modern technology.

MetaPhysical:
I forgot to mention also.

Since you keep harping Nupe/Igala.

Igala attach itself as a proto-Yoruba language and culture. This is corfirmable and has been repeated many times by their Attah.

Nupe is from Igala.

So whichever you take your origin ...you are still inferior to Yoruba.

samuk:
I can't believe that the Yorubas are so dull not to know the implication of what we are trying to save them from.

By forcefully writing themselves into Benin history, it gives seniority to the Oba of Benin over all Yoruba Obas. So much for their sophistication and cleverness.

This implication was not lost on the source you quoted because he even alluded to it.

Most scholars and historians of Yoruba history agree that Oranmiyan came to Benin and had his first child became the Oba of Benin, he then went to Oyo to have his second child, the Alafin of Oyo and returned to rule Ife where he possibly had other children who carried on as Ooni.

The reason for the seniority tussle between the old Ooni and Alaafin.

Alaafin being the second son to Oranmiyan cant be junior to Oranmiyan later children who took over in Ife.

Some even argued that the present Oonis are from the line of the chief priest that Oduduwa left to be taking care of the shrines after all his children left Ife to found other kingdoms.

Even if we agree that Oranmiyan was Yoruba, that still put Oba of Benin, his most senior son as the most senior Yoruba Obas.

So you have in terms of seniority, from Oranmiyan children. Let me see how they argue this.

1. Oba of Benin
2. Alaafin of Oyo
3. Ooni of Ife.

No matter how they spin it, the Alaafin will always be below the Oba of Benin in heirarchy.

Like to see what the Oyo guys around here think about this. The Oyo guys seats back and allow other Yorubas tribes without history to be arguing their history.

OruExpress:
Ekwensu is only popular because of Christianity promoting the name. Prior Ekwensu was regional and minor. The entities not associated with Christianity has all seen a major demotion in popularity.
Esu is also associated with Ifa and has the same relationship with Afa and Agwu has with Ifa. They are both messengers between the living and unliving, God and mortal and both holders or embodiments of universal wisdom or the divine mind. They're also both the patrons of dibias in their respective cultures.

OruExpress:
Also, Agwu is the closest to Eshu
Ekwensu is closer to Aganju, but understanding these concepts based on lazily trying to connect them to something else will only leave you in ignorance.

kayfra:
What a crock of sh!t!

How many minutes did it take you to conjure this nonsense

absoluteSuccess:
Bro, example is better than precepts.

In other words...

"Imagination is greater than knowledge"

Albert Einstein.

absoluteSuccess:
What's your Niger Congo name? Igbo boy?

Insult is your clever deflection from points that exposes you as a man of primary school level of intelligence struggling to proof points beyond his intellectual capacity or destroy it altogether.

You can never say more than this. It's all you know how to say to wade through. Bullying is what you do best.

I throw Cartesian graph and pie chart to you and you called it rich, wow. That shows the shït in your head. I'm sure you are Peter Pan, with a primary school capacity for scientific observation and inference.

I said change is absolute and you infer it as error. Change is absolute, change is constant.

Your personal choices are void of your personal understanding. Yet you know how to mock inputs from someone that can plot your graph. A fool claiming to be clever.

We don't operate at the same level. Keep playing in the mud with your imagination. Knowledge elude you, this childish game substitute for your stunted intelligence.