₦airaland Forum

Christistruth00:
Loads and Loads you heard the Itsekiri,Ijaw,Kanuri ,Bariba and British versions but are still not happy, how many different tribes corroborated your own version?
I have not even mentioned the version that Sultan Bello of Sokoto told Clapperton that the Yoruba are a remnant of the Children of Canaan who were driven out of Arabia.

I ask for evidence you give me this post?

I have never come across Itsekiri, Ijaw,Kanuri ,Bariba and British versions of Yoruba origin or Odudwa's origin

and i wonder why ijaw, kanuri and Bariba would have a tradition about Yoruba origin when they haven't finished with theirs

Sorry i do not have a version, i don't formulate history like Sultan sokoto or the people you hold in high esteem. Yoruba traditions about origins might not be clear as spring water but it sure is clear enough to conclude a very much west african origin of the yorubas. And it appears you assume Yoruba started with Oduduwa. I don't even know where to begin with you, as you are still too naive and ignorant to see the very common errors of these claims, maybe as you read more books you will learn to tell the difference between falsification and valid history
I recommend, books from Prof. Eluyemi and prof. Akintoye

The children of canaan were never in arabia to begin with! Canaan was clearly separate from Arabia.

Christistruth00:
That history is still fact , revisionist propaganda can not debunk history especially when it is corroborated by many different sources.

what evidence exists to prove that claim accurate?

Christistruth00:
It is in Samuel Johnsons book "History of the Yorubas " published in 1921 and the Kanuri's told me this History when I lived in Maiduguri, that their own ancestors and Oduduwa the father of the Yorubas were brothers and that they had travelled from the east together.
The ancestors of the Kanuri settled around lake Chad while Oduduwa and his group continued their journey till they got to Ile ife in todays Osun state. According to the Bariba tribe the starting point of their journey was Yemen in Arabia after the Muslims drove out the Pagans who refused to convert.

And that has been debunked, a debunked claim loses it's right to be called History#

no historian regards that as history in 2018

historyworld031:
Throwing insults doesn't change facts.
You just can't defeat eye witness accounts with your so called "oral history".
nOW YOU WANT TO CALIM THAT bENIN KINGDOM PAID TRIBUTE TO littel ife village which didn't even have a military worth talking about !?
Yet I guess all the people who visited our ancestors managed to miss that completely in the texts which the wrote.
You call yourself a historian yet you can't even notice the alleged date of a document ?
ALso, you don't seem to understand the fondamental concept of HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS. If you write a text describing what took place 300 years before writing your text then you are not writing a historical document. If you write a text today about what is taking place today, then you are writing a historical document. But you don't know this, you are high on the "oral history" which every historian know are easily tempered with. That is why europe doesn't rely on oral history anymore. Religion itself is nothing but oral history (if you look at the old testament, you would notice that it is written thousands of years after the events it describes) or fantastic history.
Any objective erson can see that I am the one whom is using his brain here while you are talking out of sentiments and ignorance.

European sources are largely not "eye witness" accounts. The concept of historical document belongs to the topic of Historical Source which can be either primary or secondary category. Africa lacks written records therefore the concept of historical documents are majorly considered secondary source

direct me to any reputable historian who has ever debunked oral traditions as a valid source in African history, it is in fact impossible,
Types of Historical sources include ; texts, objects, abstracts and oral
oral and abstract sources will always be included as a source especially in africa

And just because something is written doesn't make it historically accurate, hence the need for Source scrutiny

historyworld031:
Sentiments wont change the fact that your oyo was a small and young kingdom when it got its ass kicked by the fulani who the Benin Kingdom also fought but defeated.
You can't change the fact that the Benin kingdom fought against the british while oyo welcomed the british as liberators from fulani pressure.
You can't change the fact that Benin Kingdomhad a real imperial palace when they fought the british, the palace was so big that the portuguese say it occupied half of Benin city (the capital of Benin Kingdom).
You can't change the fact about the Benin bronzes.
You can't change the past, you can only change the future.

1. there is no sentiment in my posts. i just see it as stupidity for anyone to claim oyo as a kingdom or empire was smaller than bini.
2. fulani are renowned fighters in africa, they have been involved in some of the greatest west african millitary and political movements, from the Moors, to the Malian empire, to the Songhai, to Sokoto, to present Nigeria... to establish Sokoto caliphate(which ruled over most of Northern and Central Nigeria) they usurped power from the reputable Hausa kings
so i don't know why you think the fulani are not capable or an insignificant people... goes to show that your stupidity i talk about
3. Oyo empire did not fall simply to fulani defeat, Oyo empire itself was split, with Ilorin(a military and supplies stronghold) declaring independence and war on Oyo. the Ilorin movement was executed by many Oyo muslims(Oyo themselves) who acquired assistance from Sokoto and freed slaves of the Oyo empire. So it was majorly Oyo empire against itself
4. It was Nupe who Bini fought not Fulani
5. Oyo welcoming the british due to Ilorin pressure after its fall doesn't take away the history of its might during it's imperial days.. use common sense
6. Bini bronzes and palace have nothing to do the size and imperial might

Christistruth00:
Oranmiyan was a Yoruba man,and because he set up the monarchy of Benin ,Benin became his tributary ,that is the way the Yorubas did it then ,even the Ga of Accra paid tribute to the Alaafin of Oyo in the seventeenth century.Benin means Edo in the British colonial Governors document and history confirms it .Dahomey is mentioned separately.
As the Alaafin of Oyo and even after , Benin paid tribute to Oranmiyan , respectfully the Oba of Benin will not deny it.

setting up a monarchy doesnt make the town a tributary, it depends on what ever arrangement was involved in the process and as far as established accounts go, no arrangement of tributary was done between Oyo and Bini
If at all one must claim bini paid tributes it would make a lot more sense to say to Ife, but absolutely not to Oyo

The Ga of accra have nothing to do with this issue.

I just read that the document you shared was written in 1890, that means he wasn't referring to Benin republic as i early postulated. But you have to take European documents with little seriousness, many of such documents lack the knowledge of the simple geography and politics of the areas they write about, that is how the buffoon historyworld031 keeps talking about some european maps that every sane person can see as error filled.

In Africa history today, students learn to take so called "european sources" with high level of scrutiny, there has to be traditional evidence.

historyworld031:
An other non Edo who believes he knows Edo history more than Edos.
First of all, the ogiamen is a known imposter (everybody knows that except you).
Second of all, show me the record which shows the Benin Kingdom paying tribute to the much younger and smaller and weaker oyo kingdom which got its ass kicked by the fulani.

Look, I get it, you want to uplift your tribe and claim that your king is the greatest whatever historical reality may be. It is only natural, but don't disrespect me by throwing this your mental disability on me. It is not my fault that the Oba of Benin had a powerful kingdom which incorporated almost all of southern nigeria into an empire and even went beyond southern nigeria.

A fact is a fact, it is funny that you want to say that pre-colonial maps made several hundred years ago are propaganda. Yep, I went back in time with my time machine and I conspired with some map makers several hundred years ago to do propaganda.

I think you should try and deal with your low self estim on your own without trying to drag other people in it.
Also it seems that to you some uneducated ijaw are now the owners of Edo history ?
You really lack logics my friend. I an Edo should go and ask some ijaw fishermen about my history which I have been learning since I was a toddler ? And with historical documents such as pre-colonial maps and notes and the Benin Bronzes (I guess you consider those propaganda as well), and with eye witness accounts of people like my great-grand mother.

to refute his claim you had to insult Oyo?
I'll use your own line

"Look, I get it, you want to uplift your tribe and claim that your king is the greatest whatever historical reality may be. It is only natural, but don't disrespect me by throwing this your mental disability on me"

Oyo was stronger, larger and better organised. The imperial efforts of Oyo in all ramifications trump that of Bini by a long mile. From exposing and extending its language and culture, to establishing outposts ran by imperial tax collectors, creating regions and provinces
Oyo empire at it's greatest heights covered lands reaching the Volta river. Having a kingdom as powerful as dahomey as a vassal.

You don't put Bini above Oyo in terms of might and imperial organization...thats just stupid

Modern Oyo and Osun states are the size of the entire now defunt Bini empire. An Empire the size of just two states in SW encompass almost all of southern Nigeria? You don't know how big southern Nigeria is do you?

Christistruth00:
Please read this document written by Sir Alfred Moloney British Colonial Governor of Lagos written in 1890 start from the 4th paragraph .It is not news that Benin paid tribute to Oranmiyan after he left Benin and became the Alaafin of Oyo except to the revisionists.Even non Yorubas know this fact as you can see from the historical narration of the Ijaws. Thank you.

Yes oranmiyan was king at Uselu, but he wasn't even allowed to enter Bini city and function properly as King over the Kingdom. So how would Binis who he left his son to rule over pay him tributes in Oyo? His descendants had to fight their way into Bini city and establish their contol over Bini

As to the document I am certain, Benin mentioned there refers to Benin Republic, it is unarguable that the Bariba and Fons of Benin republic came under Oyo. the Ewes are found in Ghana and Togo, over them Oyo also held sway but no Bini or Edo

Christistruth00:
Do you know that it is on record that in ancient times Benin actually paid tribute to the Alaafin of Oyo?
The Ogamien family of Benin,the Ijaws and Itsekiris can help you cut through the propaganda and confirm ithis for you.

Where do you get all this things From? What record?

Christistruth00:
According to ancient history Oduduwa did not travel from the east alone he came with the ancestors of the Kanuri"s of Borno state ,and with the ancestors of the Gobir Hausa who were reputed to be his brothers and also the ancestors of the Bariba tribe. The Kanuri have an Oral history which confirms this relationship with Oduduwa the father of the Yoruba.

there is no such history.

NaoSlay:


When I told them this shii was scripted with daddy freeze as producer, y'all abused me?

They just want to defame some pastors.


If someone was duped billions, can the person laugh out like that?

With all the teeth showing?

this same iidiot again? it takes a high level of idiocy to call this fake and connected to daddy freeze

NaoSlay:


Everyone knows this is a SCRIPT being played out with the producer as daddy freeze in order to defame the men of God.

Why is it during daddy freeze mental touch reign that we hearing about it.

I wonder how much will be given to the ex footballer.

I wonder what old men gain from becoming relevant.

So Oruma is lying just to play along to daddy freeze's movement?

Waoh! You are really senseless

atiku2019manager:
at least its better than ur dirty traditional deity which bring nothing good other than human sacrifices, poverty and low IQ reasoning.

What IQ do you have? Dumb piece of shit who doesn't know his history, language or culture talking of IQ
If you had any good power of reasoning you would know that Africa was at per with Europe during the 16th century.

Christianity itself is based on human sacrifice...so what is this fool saying?

atiku2019manager:
one of the important question you should ask yourself is what was the yoruba people like? before the British ever step their foot in Lagos.

i think there your answer is. if not for the white ma that educate your people. i do believe you wont be here talking trash.

where did your gods carried you guys too.?

sahara Africans has always been curse region.

Stupid post

AdiscoPele:
Yes, Obalufon

Well then in response to your previous post, I have to say that Lajamisan who is the ancestor of all Oonis after him is not a son of Obalufon

You might get somewhere with the argument that he is not Oranmiyan's son(even though that's what they say inIfe) but that he is Obalufon 's son cannot flow, because his children are known across Yorubaland and if lajamisan,a very popular fugure, happens to be one, the clues would be all over his personality like it is in that of his known children

samuk:
It was not just the Yoruba that served the Benin Empire, others from the Igbos, Igallas, Tivs and even the Europeans did as well. Just the way America was not built alone by the whites, the Benin in the old empire were mostly administrators whilst others played other various rolls....Ijaws-sailors, Esan-millitary, Yoruba-physicians, Etsako-farming/war equipments e.t.c.

When were Igala and Tiv part of the Bini empire?

gregyboy:
My friend you re ethnocentric
Your quote: “i am a yoruba and yoruba is my only identity"
Ethnocentricism bring loves to a mans culture and bore's hate on anothers Mans own .And thats
what you're

On attacking issue you attacked the tread first with trabalism and we revoked it with the Truth not ethnocentric comment

When have I made a hate speech against any non-yoruba ethnicity? don't be stupid! again, Loyalty to one's ethnicity doesn't have to mean hate for others


I attacked the thread with tribalism you are obviously very blinded by your delusions. it was one such as you, a fellow bini who kept talking trash as usual about how Osun and Oyo people degrade yorubas from other states. So correcting an obvious lie is tribalism?

revoked what? that an Ekiti man like myself is mocked and rejected by other Yorubas for not being from Osun or Oyo state? State boundaries that are a modern construct?
And you even say you revoked with truth the way some people just choose to shut down their brains is just hilarious
how dumb can one be to even think there is any truth to that nonsense?

LGDON:
This is not opinion but fact.....this is what Ogbia history shows...they are not Ijaws ...they migrated from benin

Every Ogbia man knows that....I have lived with Ijaw and Ogbia people for a very long time...I even married one

That Ijaws and Ogbia people live in the same geographical region does not mean they are the same

Like I said before on this thread

Ijaws are not homogeneous, there are some ijaws who speak edoid languages, some speak languages similar to ibibio
Yet they are all Ijaw, If there is enough in common among the people to pick up a common ethnic identity then so be it.

Even in the North, not everyone that answers Hausa is originally Hausa, small groups assimilate into more dominant Ethnic identities

gregyboy:
I don't think you know that. Because ethnocentricism is writting all over your profile "am a yoruba”

If you aint ethnocentric it will be am african or nigeria

I am ethnocentric ´, yet i am African...You don't see me hating on other fellow africans or wishing people harm because they are not of my ethnicity

Loyalty to ones ethnicity doesn't stop love and appreciation for other ethnicities of the same race. In fact hate for other people is not loyalty to your own people, if you think defending your ethnicity is by attacking every other neighboring people you must be really daft

gregyboy:
Lol i love yorubas for thier cunnity dem!! you guys are good always associate with big boys on every aspect of endeavour north for politics ,benin for solid history,uk for recognition name it Yoruba are indeed cunny

Ok. But hate will get you nowhere

We are all Africans, the sooner you realize that the better for you individually

gregyboy:
Aruhan ne kebeze

Just which he could come flush this yoruba boy above me

ode oponu

Why not say your true desire?
Of flushing all Yorubas

I still don't know what makes you binis on nl have this much hate for Yoruba

davidif:
Dude, if they want to keep their culture then they can keep it. I am not saying that you throw out the baby with the bath water what i am saying is that some parts of culture need to be keot while some should done away with. Culture was made for man and not man for culture. In other words, when a tradition begins to be a disadvantage and a form of oppression to certain people (e.g women) then it needs to be questioned, modified or completely discarded.

Finally, as in most things in life, most things needs to be done in moderation. The problem with this scenario is A father using what should be a beautiful and noble thing for his selfish desires. Talk about the pure unfettered greed that has hijacked this traditions. This are the excesses I am addressing. This is his daughter for goodness sakes. Why would he even do that?

Mr. Man all this thing is long story.. I'll say it again... it is not by force to marry that particular girl...if you can't afford bride price leave them alone
It is their culture

SicilianMafia:
[s][/s]

Stop the useless facade you are trying to put up!

Those that went to universities in Yoruba villages know what am talking about

You are the one making up absurdities. All Yorubas who aren't from Osun or Oyo states are every much as Yoruba as those from Osun and Oyo.
stop saying nonsense, no way is one more Yoruba than the other

SicilianMafia:
Edo is Edo!!

Yoruba is Yoruba!!

We are not one People !!

If you have Benin heritage well good for you, But don't think you can have a say where real Edo's are seated!

It is you who should educate yourself , look at how Yorubas from oyo and osun (who alwaya feel they are the pure stock) treat people like you from Ondo and Ekiti, they always mock them and call thier language gibberish

My advice to you if you really know you have Benin heritage and not just an impostor , nor carry Yoruba matter untop head because according to osun/Oyo people you are not pure/true Yoruba and if push comes to shove you will be reminded of that !!

Nonsense!

Every Yoruba dialect is beautiful and held with great admiration across Yorubaland.
There is also nothing like "pure Yoruba" i've never heard such a thing in my life. From Itsekiri in the east to Anago in the West, Awori in the south to Okun in the north

nobaga:
The Edo people need to find out about the Oru and Efa that were the aboriginal owner of Bini before the Yoruba and Edo.

But before the Yoruba or Edo and Ijaw in Bini, there were Oru and Efa

See:

The Efa: Mysterious Aborigines of Edoland
Dmitri Bondarenko
AUTHORS
Dmitri Bondarenko

I believe Oru refers to an ancient Ijoid people and have very little(if anything at all) to do with Bini
The Igbos call the Ijaw and generally all riverine people Olu/Oru

Edo call them Uzo and if we look at Edo-yoruba language pattern "Uzo" would be rendered as "Ijo" in Yoruba

Note: I'm not saying with certainty that there's a Yoruba connection but it's a possibility

SicilianMafia:
coming to ijo there is something not clear regarding thier origin as they delibrately twist thier history, its not that ijos history wasnt documented, it was!!

Go and read the lower niger and its tribes by Leonard arthur glyn (1906) where it states that ijos are benin descendants, see S E johnson report on gbaramatu, patridge report on ijo, and the oral traditions amongst the ijos of the niger delta by professor E J Alagoa. Now coming to your claim ijaws are you aware of the place iduwini in delta and igbobini an apoi community in ondo dont tell me that idu benins ancestor is now an ijo man and the prefix idu is of ijo origin and now igbobini a yoruba word that means forest binis(benins) and if you are still not convinced according to some ijos oral tradition they claim ado beni origin which means riverine edo in ijo tongue what does that tell you regarding the ancestor of this ijos.?

I think Ijaw is not a homogenous ethnicity.. I lernt there are even few groups that speak Edoid languages, and some speak languages similar to the Efik-Ibibio

davidif:
See logic! The fact that I don't earn a million naira for a bride price does not mean that one is not ready to marry it might simply mean that it is way beyond his budget. You don't need to have a million to to live day to day as husband and wife. You can cut your cloth according to your size. If the bride price is more than your budget then that's plain cruelty.



Culture should never reign supreme. Knowledge, logic and reason Trump culture any day any time. No wonder this continent is still a mess after all this years.

the practice began and has persisted because it serves a social benefit and it still does. Cultural norms like laws are created to benefit as much people as it can, not every single person all the time. Even though, most of the modern families calling for bride price do it for greed, it still has it's benefit and it is at least a little appreciation for their ethnic background, which is always a good thing.
there is a simple solution for those who do not like this ..... do not marry the girl, if her father sets a standard for the man who is supposed to take care of his daughter and he fails, he should move on..what's the big deal? it is not by force to marry his daughter



oh shut up! how many people in africa actually follow their culture when it matters? do not even come here to start blaming African cultures when most africans do not follow their culture, if africans did the condition would be so much better as many of such customs and ideas still hold potential for social, economic and psychological development and those that don't can be modified. So that some people hold on to the bride price aspect it means African is a mess because of the whole culture that isn't even dominant? use your head
with all the religion, post-colonial mentality and western-culture-philia which are the dominant basis for the modern African society, the continent will always remain a mess...that is why I defend real african culture when i see it, an African Renaissance is very much needed

davidif:
Wrong! You don't know that. You are just speculating. Wedding is a one time event and marriage is for life. Don't conflate the two.



Once again, the bride price was not the issue, the issue was the amount that he was told to bring.




Great, let's blame the victim now not the stupid culture of greed and extortion. Awesome. Clap for yourself.

Mr. Man is it by force to marry? The man was not ready to marry from that family simple...

Culture should always reign supreme, it exists for a reason...if you don't like it you can go some place where such cultures dont exist and leave the people alone

davidif:
But from the account of the first hand witness: the woman herself, she and her husband had to go into debt just to satisfy the whims of the girls parents. Sounds like extortion and profiteering to me. A better solution would have been to agree on a manageable price that is within the couple's financial means not some gargatuan sum that they had to go into debt to pay. That's wickedness right there whether you call it culture or not.

if bride price did not put him in debt, marriage life would. The man was not ready for marriage...at least by what I understand
If a man can't pay bride price how can he prove his capability to take care of the woman and her children.

If the man failed to negotiate, then he is a fool, if the man doesn't know what he can't afford then he is a fool

I don't see wickedness, what I see is stupidity and inability from the husband's side

davidif:
Really?? Greed doesn't cause harm?

the culture of bride price is what I refered to
And I disagree about it being all about Greed...

The culture works for the igbos so what's the big deal? Be tolerant of others culture if you don't pay bride price where you are from

Purebeerry:
Kiss and tell is one problem Nigerian guys are suffering from.

Rubbish!

How is this a problem? abi the woman is ashamed now ehn?

Gotohellosewa:
You're quite right. They must be indigenous Martians.

We are not even indigenous to this galaxy