₦airaland Forum

frank317:
What's this? U needn't repeat urself like I didn't understand ur post. U should have told me u didn't understand my response. I repeat, this same response messed up what I thought of ur first post (I actually liked it)
Faith and obedience being intertwined is not the issue but that u accepted that God was testing Abraham with an act he deemed wrong

Do you see what one of the stand-offs is about here frank317?
What is the wrong, frank317, in commanding another to carry out an act on something that you own?

frank317:
U have no case to rest. Nobody ever argued that abraham killed his son. The argument is that God is satisfied with the fact that Abraham intended to actually kill his son for him. Argue that and stop playing smart.

So? What's the wrong in that frank317?

Did God ask anyone else to go kill their children for Him? No, he didnt and hasnt ever did

I have a case and a very valid case for that matter. I earlier asked you: "Do you remember how Isaac came about? Do you remember the circumstances before and up until his birth?" but you ignored that comment

frank317:
I repeat, things u are familiar with is not the issue here. Also, Abraham's cultural background is not the issue here. The issue is that God is testing man to find out if he is obedient enough to carry out a bad deed for him.
Ur evasion tactics will not work

I will test you on things I know you're used to, I will test you on things you are familiar with. I will test you based on your past antecedents. I will test and confirm to you, whether or not you are susceptible to be avaricious, by feeding your greed. Feeding your greed, will be a good test and it wouldnt necessarily be criminal for me, to do so

Now, frank317, tell what exactly, is the bad deed, in God telling Abraham to go kill Isaac, his son there as a sacrifice for God, and this same Isaac, Abraham's only son, the one he love, should be used as a burnt offering on one of the mountains God said He will point out which to Abraham?

frank317:
Hear urself please... Was God satisfied that abraham obeyed his instruction to kill his son? u better answer.

That would be resounding YES. Of course, God was satisfied that Abraham was will and prepared to obey His instruction to kill his son, Isaac. God was deed chuffed with Abraham. He was actually pleased for Abraham's sake, that Abraham considering the tricky and awkward situation, Abraham came through passing with flying colours

frank317:
And stop repeating that the killing never happened, that's weak.

It is the truth and fact that the killing never happened. Now if the kiiling didnt happen, I wonder why you guys have an extremely nervous and sensitive temperament to the escapade. Even budaatum, in chillax mode, actually saw the whole affair as a God prank

frank317:
OK... But this is irrelevant

Now that you are aware, at least, you'll take more care, so I dont agree with you that it is irrelevant.

frank317:
If they understood themselves, then they should have kept it between them.

That is exactly what they've both done frank317. Have you heard or seen God after theirs ask anyone else to go to kill their son for God?

frank317:
I am not Abraham and God asking him to do bad things to show obedience is wrong.

God will never ask anyone to do bad things frank317. God telling Abraham to kill is son is not a bad thing nor is it wrong for God to do or ask

frank317:
Asking a child I love who comes from a robbery background to go and rob as a test for his obedience is wrong on my part.

Cant you see this is not worthy of comparison. For starters, why are you encouraging someone to go steal another person's property?

frank317:
Stop talking like u don't get my point.

I do get your point. I really do but your point is skewed and I empathise with you on that

frank317:
U didn't actually respond to it, u just quoted it and repeated the same response that made me give the example. Its now u are responding with this funny example. How about if I test the boy to go steal my own property? Will it be right for the boy to even attempt to steal them?

Of course I responded and did because I didnt want you to accuse me of being evasive.

You think it is funny, me saying, you are using a wrong and invalid scenario. You think it is funny, me asking you: "Why would you tell him to go and steal someone else's property?. Is the property his or yours?" huh? Like I said, earlier, you arent seeing the forest because of the trees, and that is why it's actually you guys, and especially you, who are throwing up funnies of all sorts

Yes frank317, it will be right for the boy to even attempt to steal them, because you told him to go do stealing, you gave him express authorisation to go steal from you. In some parts of world, there is a name for something like that, it is called social experiment

frank317:
muttleylaff must have known some wacky and crazy things about Abraham i don't know, don't u think?

It sure does seem like that, dont you think frank317

frank317:
If Abraham kills his son and his son comes back to life, that does not make him a murderer?

Yes, it does not make Abraham a murderer because there is no dead body, besides, Abraham was following a God command to kill, and so this absolves Abraham of any culpability, blame or wrong.

frank317:
One who kills someone is not a murderer because the person comes back to life?

Yes, it does not make Abraham a murderer because there is no dead body. It doesnt matter, how many ways you want to pan this, the answer always will be "it doesnt make Abraham a murderer"

frank317:
U just wanna win argument. Enjoy.

Number 1, I dont do argument and there is a very good reason for that, to me
Number 2, unlike you, I dont have a truculent bone in my body
Number 3, truth needs no argument

frank317:
Ya right, glad u got ur own joke.

I am just being real, trutful and facing the facts. Wish yo could and are able to frank317

frank317:
Sorry I never knew God loves that act of killing.

I wouldnt like you, stretch and/or go as far as saying God loves the act of killing, but can confidently say I know God is not averse to killing, and you can take that comment to the bank frank317

budaatum:
So it was a test? How stupidly patronising of Yahweh! It definitely isn't a knowitall as some like to believe.

It was a test, and for the benefit and cause of Abraham. Afterall, Yahweh knows it all, but does Abraham know himself all, talkless know it all, like Yahweh does.

How much do you know about yourself budaatum? Do you know everything and all that needs to be known about yourself?

budaatum:
So, if it wasn't a test, what exactly was it?

Of course it was test budaatum, but what was Abraham tested on, what would be a best test subject to test, validate and verify Abraham with?

What do you cherish budaatum, what is the name of that thing that's so precious to you and dear to your soppy heart, huh? C'mon spill it, don't go all shy on me now.

budaatum:
Did Abraham not cherish Isaac?

Ahha! So the question is:
Would Abraham not comply because Abraham cherishs Isaac, who incidentally, is the promised child, whom a now well advanced in years Abraham, miraculously had, when Abraham was sterile, infertile and impotent?

budaatum:
Sorry muttley, but it seems you cannot get away from what you've been told to think. There's no reason to tell Abraham to go and kill his son if you don't really want him to. And there's no reason to test if he would if you already knew he would if you told him to.

I am sorry budaatum, what exactly, for the sake of this discussion, do you think Abraham was tested on?

If I were to test you budaatum, the test will have to involve something you cherish, something you hold dearly, it will have to be with something they'll will have to kill you first and the prise your clinging on to fingers, off before they'll take the thing off you. You know thats how the cookie crumbles now.

budaatum:
Then Yahweh would be an ass for playing stupid games with Abraham, or childishly insecure and needing constant reassurance and couldn't have been omniknowitall either since it wouldn't have had to test Abraham to know what Abraham would have done!

budaatum, it has nothing to do with being "...childishly insecure and needing constant reassurance..." , it all was for the benefit and cause of Abraham. Afterall, Yahweh knows it all, but does Abraham know himself all, talkless know it all like Yahweh does?

budaatum:
There's nothing to say Abraham was not still in learning stage however, learning to distinguish the voice of Yahweh from his earlier gods.

Abraham since leaving Ur, had no problems, distinguishing the voice of Yahweh from his earlier abandoned gods.

frank317:
This here messes up ur first post in the first page but I trust u will not see it.

frank317, this is criminally insane, how you walk with these huge big balls of yours. No wonder, it's down to only you and me to face each other, the others have developed shriveled scrotums.

All you'll need to have simply done is to ask me to clarify, instead of carelessly brushing aside me saying "... you are right that God was testing Abraham's faith, but as a matter of fact frank317, it actually was Abraham's obedience that is being tested here... "

You would agree and accept that biblically speaking, faith and obedience are intertwined. One tends to obey because one has good and strong faith

frank317:
God testing Abraham with the killing of his son is the issue here and not the act of testing (which can also be argued as unnecessary for God).

Did the killing happen? Was the killing allowed to happen?. I rest my case then

frank317:
The question is if God tests u will the killing of ur son will u still consider him a good God? Will u attempt to kill ur son for God?

That is exactly the point frank317, dont you get it that, God testing me with the killing of my son, just is never going to happen?

frank317, God will test you with things you are familiar to. frank317, I know this is hard and difficult for you to stomach, and I noticed how you waved away my earlier "... knowing Abraham's cultural background and his antecedents that one can take advantage of, what would you say would be the ultimate way to test a man, that though already has a promised child, is actually now sterile, infertile and/or impotent" comment with a poor counter defence. You overlooked a telling point when you tried to retaliate with "It does not matter what his cultural background was? U cannot use something wrong to test some and get satisfaction that he actually wanted to do such wrong for u.
I hate stealing, if I adopt a kid who comes from the background of robbery... I wouldn't test his obedience by asking him to go and steal. I will teach him robbery is wrong and if I test by asking him to steal, I will be sad that he can actually rob for me."

Do you remember how Isaac came about? Do you remember the circumstances before and up until his birth?

frank317:
Ask urself, was God satisfied that Abraham was will to kill his son (for him)? This is something God hates, how could he be satisfied someone is willing to do it for him?

frank317, lets make this once and for all clear please, that God never is into the business of child sacrifices nor into ritualistic killing of children. God, from the word, go, and on principle, disagrees with child sacrifice practices, so this isnt, as you love to believe, a matter God being satisfied that someone is willing to do something God hates. No, it isnt about that, you are not seeing the wood for the trees, if that is what you keep seeing frank317. The underlining element that need to be put in italic is obedience, that is what God was pleased with, that you are willing to comply and carry out the command.

The actual killing will never happen, as you accept and agree with, that God hates the killing

frank317:
And I tell u brining in test into the equation messes up the 'teaching him by experience angle".
I will say its okay if God wanted to just prove to him that ritualistic killing is unacceptable, but the fact that he also wanted to test Abraham to see of he will obey him by killing his sob for him is wrong weather in my opinion. Abraham actually intend to kill his son for him, god should have condemned him for such intent and tell him to be obedient in such instances.

This matter is really getting at you because there are so many fat finger typos and misspells all of a sudden, starting to crop up in your comment. I am having to reread your comments now numerous times over, just to get a grasp of what you are trying to message out

They understood each other, they knew neither of them will wish evil on each other. If God told Abraham to sling his head into an open mouth alligator, Abraham will do it without batting an eyelid. That's the mettle of the man frnk317, and unfortunately I am no Abraham

frank317:
It does not matter what his cultural background was? U cannot use something wrong to test some and get satisfaction that he actually wanted to do such wrong for u.
I hate stealing, if I adopt a kid who comes from the background of robbery... I wouldn't test his obedience by asking him to go and steal. I will teach him robbery is wrong and if I test by asking him to steal, I will be sad that he can actually rob for me.

I have above, responded to this comment but will add that, you are using a wrong and invalid scenario. Why would you tell him to go and steal someone else's property?. Is the property his or yours? Like I said earlier, you arent seeing the forest because of the trees, that is why you guys throw up all these funnies

frank317:
Just how do u see that this reason is wrong in all sense?
How many people had God brought back to life in that era? Did the bible record that? How did Abraham get this idea?

Abraham must have known some wacky and crazy things about God we dont know, dont you think frank317

frank317:
If God brings Isaac back eventually wouldn't that still make Abraham a murderer?

I like that word, IF and that's exactly what IF is, it never happened, it hasnt happened, but just to placate you and not to be accused to prevaricating, I will answer your question. Capital NO, it does not make Abraham a murderer

frank317:
How will his son feel eventually knowing his father killed him? How did he even view his father after the event? I am already seeing Abraham as a murderer.

The son will wear the scar proudly and show it off to his playmates, probably charge them money to listen to the story

frank317:
Again, why will God be satisfied with abraham knowing that the man was will to kill (something he hates)/for him?

God is not averse to killing. I dont know how or where you got that idea from frank317 that to kill is something God hates

Dantedasz:
How many times do you want to keep going round in circles?
I have provided the verses from your pamphlet/manual twice already.
Here they are for the last time.

GENESIS CHAPTER 22 VERSE 9.
JUDGES CHAPTER 11 VERSES 30-40.

Now let's see you develop selective amnesia. grin

1/ When, where and which exact bible verse did Jephthah vow to barbecue his daughter as an offering to please Yahweh?
2/ When, where and which exact bible verse did Jephthah barbecued his daughter as an offering to please Yahweh?

Dantedas and LordReed stop dilly dallying about and start to kindly oblige giving the exact two verses in the bible I asked you and Dantedasz off so we can knuckle down and get to business, not this burying in a haystack of tissues of lies ploy. You guys know you haven't any legs to stand on so probably won't have the balls to provide the verses but instead push forward a swamp of verses

LordReed:
That is your MO so stop projecting it unto me.

Skeptically raising my eyebrow at this remark

LordReed:
I answered your question on whether it came to my mind that the god had considered it.

It was a rhetorical question. Now kindly oblige giving the two verses in the bible I asked you and Dantedasz so we can knuckle down and get to business

LordReed:
Dude that was your augment, why the Bleep do you keep projecting your stuff unto me? I won't remain silent, go sue me to court.

My solicitor will like hanging you by overdeveloped balls after tearing you to shreds, with all these your inducement and entrapment shenanigans, and especially even if I sue you to court, so you really dont want me to sue you

LordReed:
So to the god the all knowing being, that knows all the seasons, it was acceptable? Your god is subject to the seasons? LMFAO!

If you understand it that way, its fine by me

sanpipita:
You still sticking off to my point, my whole start up here wasn't about homosexuality I condemn homophobia it total, I have done alot of that in this forum and beyond

Stating fears legalization of marijuana or unchecked immigration isn't discriminatory, when you start taking in lots of people into your country you risk creating social issues for yourself not like im going to endorse any unwarranted attacks on people cos they take marijauna or are immigrants, try think beyond sexuality by the way, my issue here wasn't about sexuality, I have no issues with sexuality

If true to yourself, you would admit that same sex relationship issue was the focus before you turned up trying to append marijuana and immigration matter to it,

So you know, it is because of incidents like what happened to American actor, singer, director and photographer Jussie Smollett in the early hours of Monday the past, that makes it a conscientious decision for me, to think about sexuality, the unfairness and injustice to it

frank317:
I had to like this because it is a more sensible response compared to what code templer has been saying.

You seemingly and yet, is the only voice of reason in the so far Dantedasz CreepyBlackpool LordReed trio group

frank317:
However I still see some faults... Now, the events looks more like God was testing Abraham's faith, or am I wrong?

This, as it were, is an opportunistic moment frank317, it is a situation, akin to the proverbial killing of more than two birds with one stone, and you are right that God was testing Abraham's faith, but as a matter of fact frank317, it actually was Abraham's obedience that is being tested here. In truth, it is no different to when in the garden, Adam's obedience too, to God's word was tested. Would Abraham comply or would he not comply, was the moment of truth and self discovery, soon to be found out

frank317:
But ur explanation is tilting towards the fact that God just wanted to prove to Abraham that child sacrifice is wrong and stop it.

I am sorry and apologise, if that is how you interpreted what I typed. I never intended to give nor gave the impression that "God just wanted to prove to Abraham that child sacrifice is wrong and stop it" C'mon now frank317, you surely must be familiar with the the colloquial: "Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward", so it was with Abraham that after the test, he learned the lesson that God is not into the business of child sacrifices nor into ritualistic killing of children, done supposedly by those looking for wealth, riches, fame and power or done to curry divine favour from these wicked and cruel acts

Again I repeat, sure Abraham was tested, to see, if he will carry out the command but fact is, God, from the word, go, and on principle, disagrees with the child sacrifice practice and so, we have it that, ultimately did not allow Abraham sacrifice Isaac and so the experience, presented Abraham with the knowledge, the understanding and the discernment that God doesnt accept child sacrifices and nor is God into ritualistic killing of children.

frank317:
This are two distinct reasons why God would ask Abraham to kill his son pls clarify. As for me, I am concerned with Abraham's intent to kill for God whatever God's reason for the instruction was.

Look at it this way frank317, knowing Abraham's cultural background and his antecedents that one can take advantage of, what would you say would be the ultimate way to test a man, that though already has a promised child, is actually now sterile, infertile and/or impotent?

Also frank317, remember the given reason in the bible, for Abraham's intent to kill for God was that, Abraham reasoned that if Isaac died, from after going through the command, God was able to bring him back to life again. Also frank317, besides all those, at times, unpopular decision(s) necessarily are made when making a point to advance a change in the status quo or a behaviour
cc CodeTemplar, tintingz, malvisguy212

Dantedasz:
I know religionists develop selective amnesia when confronted with the facts of delusion but this has got to take the cake

I agree with you that religionists do develop selective amnesia when confronted with the facts of delusion but bizarrely enough, this matter here, is about you confirmedly being confused and so publicly displaying your colossal ignorance over Jephthah and his vows.

Dantedasz:
There are two verses in the Bible where Yahweh appears to condone burning human beings as sacrifice to his insatiable lust for killings.

Hiding behind the words "appears to condone" you slander Yahweh with shameless falsehoods and unsubstantiated not to be relied upon claims

Dantedasz:
1. Abraham and his son Isaac. Genesis chapter 22 verse 9.

2. Jephthah and his unnamed daughter. Judges chapter 11.

It is there in your Bible. Read it. There is no wriggling out of this one.

Your intellectual arrogance betrays you and you simply are chasing a wild goose with your ignorance here Dantedasz. If Yahweh really appears to condone burning human beings as sacrifice to his insatiable lust for killings, then there should at least be two dead bodies, so where are the two dead bodies, where are the burnt human beings sacrifice or killing?

Dantedasz:
Let us assume the case of Abraham and Isaac was a test by an OMNISCIENT entity to test it's creations free will, what about the second case?
The omniscient creator stopped Abraham from sacrificing Isaac by providing an animal to be sacrificed in Isaac's case but this same loving creator fails to do the same in the second case of Jephthah's unnamed daughter?
And you can see how sexist the writers of the Bible were, because in the case of Jephthah's daughter, her name does not need to be provided since she is just a statistic in Yahweh's horror movie of killings and burning of human beings.

Dantedasz:
As for the YouTube video's, you may call them useless or stupid but when you watch them with a critical mind, the simplicity of those videos exposes the hypocrisy of the Bible.

Why are you guys so fond of reading texts wrongly? It is not only bible texts you guys misread, even pieces of texts in my comments too you read incorrectly as well.

Dantedasz please tell me, where and when did I call the YouTube videos useless or stupid? Huh?
Remember what I typed was: "Dantedasz and his worthless YouTube animated video again. The only person the clip has any worth to is nonstampcollector because of the sweet kerching sound when YouTube sends him crispy dollar cheques at the end of the month" What you dont know about nonstampcollector, is that he is at the end of the month, laughs all the way to the bank when he goes to withdraw, and its all down to creating those animated clips, with extremely amusing, killingly funny entertaining satire. The downside is the regular huge gaping holes in his storylines and departure from the original narrative with distortion of fact(s). Dont read me wrong I am more of a nonstampcollector fan more than you think, as I do enjoy visiting his channel, and I do literally laugh out loud whilst watching him deviate from a fact and as he uses artistic licence to entertain.

Dantedasz:
Thou shall not kill------What is Yahweh's body count in the Bible?

Who is counting and keeping record?
Mind you, the human sacrifice that God wants, is us, to do die, to self.

Dantedasz:
Here is the passage again since according to MuttleyLaff, Jephthah did not barbecue his daughter as an offering to please Yahweh. It is there in your Bible. What a horror show.
JUDGES CHAPTER 11 VERSES 30-40.

1/ When, where and which exact bible verse did Jephthah vow to barbecue his daughter as an offering to please Yahweh?
2/ When, where and which exact bible verse did Jephthah barbecued his daughter as an offering to please Yahweh?

See above two simple questions, Dantedasz, why dont you and your friend LordReed respond to them and let us each and all together forensically, calmly and clinically investigate the verses to see whether or not Jephthah did vow to barbecue his daughter as an offering to please Yahweh and also see if Jephthah did or did not get to barbecuing his daughter as an offering to please Yahweh

LordReed:
When I was a Christian I struggled with this passage because it didn't gel with anything we knew of the god. So in other to make it make sense I was taught that she wasn't given as a burnt offering, she instead became a "nun". Nevermind all the other problems that interpretation throws up, the sanctity of the god was preserved. LMFAO!

Well, just as I earlier told Dantedasz, Jephthah NEVER DID NOT use his daughter as a burnt offering anyway, this is because human burnt offering is an anathema to God and Jephthah knew this and so never did he nurse any plan nor had any intention of offering God a human burnt offering. Besides burnt offering the Israelites practised, always had to do with animals anyways, and never had anything to do with human being sacrifices

Dantedasz:
I have never been able to wrap my head around the horrible story even when I was a kid. Who was he expecting to welcome him home except a human being?
Christian apologists try every dirty trick in the book to explain the incident away.
From saying Jephthah's nameless daughter became a nun, to pointing out Jephthah as a holy man who obeyed God and gave the ultimate sacrifice, to the essence of making a vow to God and keeping it.
All more astounding rubbish!

When Jephthah said: "whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it, as a burnt offering", he wasnt expecting a human being, talkless his daughter, to be the first to come out to meet him. He wasnt expecting his child, he didnt bank on his child first meeting him, so surely never had her in mind when he made that extremely rash vow, obviously done without careful and properly thought consideration of the possible consequences.
The upshot was, he tore his clothes in sorrow and anguish on sighting his daughter, because he knows according to the earlier foolish vow he made, she is now sentenced to a lifetime of celibacy, dedicated to the service of God for life, be unmarried, abstain from having and enjoying sex, hence no kids or hope of grandkids. In effect, she technically is about to become a nun. It's that harrowing enough for Jephthah, as the joy of every father, is to proudly hold the hands of their daughter down the aisle, to had over in marriage to an eligible male, but for Jephthah, this or none of that is going to happen, hence the public "tearing of his clothes" demo and bitter anguish

LordReed:
Truly astounding rubbish.

What is truly astounding rubbish, is the public display of colossal ignorance on this Jephthah matter. This Jephthah controversy has been flogged enough times over and long time laid to rest many years ago, on nairaland, so I wonder why, some are still tearing hairs out and getting hard-ons over it

Dantedasz:
When they are confronted with the absurdity of their ridiculous religious pamphlet called the Bible, they take to their heels and run away only to return surreptitiously to make amendments to their posts. There is one Catholic guy that normally runs away when confronted with superior arguments, only to come back weeks later to amend his posts under the cloak of darkness. I always see the mentions but I just chuckle and ignore him.

I had guys like that too, there is this particular poster, years ago on this same Jephthah matter on Nairaland that did exactly the same "take to heels and run away only to return surreptitiously to make amendments to his posts. Ran away when confronted with superior proposition(s), only to come back later to amend his posts under the cloak of darkness"

This particular and one poster whom I've seen again has visited this thread in the middle of the night, back then will go back to the Jephthah comments he made, and edit them after falling flat on face, when caught slipping not only misunderstanding "gender-specific pronouns" but also found wanting trying to correctly use "third person singular pronouns". The poster tried to pass "it" (i.e. a "gender-neutral pronoun'') for a human being instead of correctly using "him" or "her" (i.e. "gender-specific pronouns'')

LordReed:
Seriously? What a lame arse.

Yes, it's deserving or arousing pity to watch the arrogance of posters delighting in their ignorance of a subject matter they havent the foggiest clue about

budaatum:
You would have done well to just claim Abram mistook his other gods for Yahweh!

Abram had cut ties with his other gods, so you are mistaken to think Abram mistook his other gods for Yahweh
cc CodeTemplar, tintingz, malvisguy212

LordReed:
It has and it damn sure doesn't look like this your god has any intelligence beyond what the men that wrote the stories were capable of. We see no sign that anything in the bible was intelligently thought out with an eye to the future contrary to what christians would have us believe.

Trust you to always throw in distractions, go on a tangent and veer off the topic clutching at straws especially when running out of steam

LordReed:
As for its stance on child sacrifice, you said that it was not written prior to its command to Abraham, were you not trying to imply that it gave it the leverage to so order?

Oh, are we back on to the topic now?
Mr LordReed, please give an instance of God ever accepting child sacrifice, accepted burnt human offerring or accepted ritualistic killing of children if you are unable to, then do us and everybody else a favour of remaining forever silent on the " God Told Abraham To Sacrifice His Child" matter

LordReed:
My guy, you know that if the police got a hold of a document outlining how a "god" commanded you to kill someone, you'll be sent to an asylum, if not tried under different laws for like terrorism and threat to life.

Different times, different season LordReed. Seasons come and go LordReed, and that season of "a "god" commanded you to kill someone" has way back long gone.

LordReed:
You are the one who said the god wanted to distinguish itself you are now saying it did not condemn child sacrifice which was a common practice.

Are you sure you havent mistaken my moniker for another one. When and when did I say anything about God distinguishing Himself?

LordReed:
Dude did it want to distinguish itself or not? How can it give a command for child sacrifice that the god HATES? Why did it not from the onset condemn the practice to Abraham? Slice it anyway you like, this was a most senseless story if you are making this your god out to be a benevolent intelligent entity

Did what you are accusing God off actually got done? Did God not say what is stance is concerning child sacrifices etcetera?

LordReed:
I can assure you you do not hate taking the thrash out, you probably dislike it but hate no. Hate is a very strong word and the usage in the bible indicates pure abhorrence such that it even says it will make the god to turn away from its people, then the god casually tells its loyal servant to go perform a deed it hates?

Trust me, I know me more than you know me. I hate taking out the trash, I having to go to work everyday, but then mortgage hasnt been paid off yet, so I just have to slug it out

LordReed:
So this your intelligent god who supposedly destroyed the earth for wickedness when there was no express command as you now require for Abraham's case, would now have to wait more than 400years to have the law written down condemning the practice? It needs a law to express how much it hates the practice? Why then did it supposedly destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? Where was the law forbidding what they did? Are not seeing how these things make no sense?

Good question about Sodom and Gomorrah, unfortunately answering the question, will derail the thread apart from being beyond the thread's scope.

Has it not yet entered your mind, that God would had intelligently thought and considered all options before settling for what specific decision and action He took?

LordReed:
Ever heard of attempted murder or conspiracy to commit murder?

You still need to convincingly prove attempted murder or conspiracy to commit murder in court. Ever heard of police inducement or entrapment?

malvisguy212:
no my brother, you need to consider what God did not allow Abraham do .

LordReed:
Lemme ask you, if the police caught you about to kill someone, will they charge you for an offence or not?

If they charge, then police will have to meet the person in court, which I am confidently sure the judge will most likely throw out the case, as a crime hasnt been committed yet. Prosecution will have a hard time getting the charge to stick sef

LordReed:
So in order to distinguish itself from the other gods being worshiped at time, the god gives the exact same command as the other gods do?

What's wrong with that

LordReed:
And this makes sense to you?

Of course it does, it actually does makes a great deal of sense to me. Why bother reinventing the wheel, when you can make do with what is already a prevailing practice

LordReed:
The god also doesn't tell Abraham, yeah I really hate this stuff but I just had to test you so don't ever do this again. It straight up pronounces a blessing on Abraham for obeying the command to go sacrifice his son.

God is sovereign, he can use even what He hates to test anybody. Even, me, sometimes, have to do certain things I hate, for example, I hate taking the rubbish out but I hardly have any choice, not to. I hate mowing the lawn, so sometimes, pay or get someone else to do it. Well Abraham deserved to be rewarded now, dont you think. That would have been a traumatic experience you wouldnt want to relive

LordReed:
This is a pattern of behaviour we see throughout the bible, the god blesses actions it has explicitly condemned elsewhere, yet Christians will have us believe the god's morality is absolute. Y'all are confused.

Now you are putting the cart before the horse here. Where and when before the Abraham-Isaac incident, was child sacrifice explicitly condemned huh?

Dantedasz:
Question, question, question??

If God does not support human sacrifice, why didn't he stop Jephthah from burning his daughter to him as a human sacrifice?

It is there in the Bible.

Judges chapter 11,verses 30-40

"They have built pagan shrines at Topheth, the garbage dump in the valley of Ben-Hinnom, and there they burn their sons and daughters in the fire. I have never commanded such a horrible deed; it never even crossed my mind to command such a thing!"
- Jeremiah 7:31

Dantedasz, Jephthah DID NOT use his daughter as a burnt offering and this because human burnt offering is an anathema to God. Jephthah knew this and so never was he planning nor had any intention of offering God a human burnt offering. Besides burnt offering always had to do with animals anway, and never had anything to do with human sacrifices

Dantedasz:
^^^Judges 11:30-40 New International Version (NIV)
30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands,
31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”

32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands.
33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter.
35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.”
36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites.
37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
38 “You may go,” hesaid. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
From this comes the Israelite tradition
40 that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

For anyone interested in knowing. Two vows were made by Jephthah. None of the vows was about barbequing suya human beings nor about seminary school but if being lenient, then, maybe in a kind of non-technical way, we can accept "seminary school" as being one of the two vows.

Dantedasz:
h t t ps://youtu.be/Pt66kbYmXXk

Dantedasz and his worthless YouTube animated video again. The only person the clip has any worth to is nonstampcollector because of the sweet kerching sound when YouTube sends him crispy dollar cheques at the end of the month

This Jephthah controversy has been flogged enough times and long time laid to rest on nairaland. I wonder why, some are still tearing hairs out and getting hard-ons over it
cc CodeTemplar, tintingz, malvisguy212

LordReed:
How is Abraham sacrificing his son the right thing?

The right thing was Abraham going about doing exactly what God commanded him to do, and stopping from doing it, as soon as when told something else otherwise.
cc malvisguy212

sanpipita:
You are exaggerating my point here, world getting full of junkies doesn't mean everyone becomes a junkie

No I never intentionally wanted to "exaggerate" your point but why make an impetuous remark, afterall remember what you originally typed was "isn't just about sex part, I'm totally in support of same sex relationship, but lots of liberal views could bring chaos like say we are legalizing marijuana now even with marijuanas illegal in certain places you could still have kids get access to them, with the legality it could be much worse we could end with a world full of junkies, there's also a case of pro immigration views"

On one hand, you are in for same sex relationships, but you then with the other hand, seem to be throwing water on same sex relationships. When marijuana is abused, when immigration is abused will certainly have problems, same way when sex same relationship are abused and discriminated against. You obviously read what happened to American actor, singer, director and photographer Jussie Smollett in the early hours of yesterday. Imagine that being your son, brother, uncle, father, friend, neighbour or work colleague would you be happy or pleased over the ordeal he was put through?
cc Ranchhoddas

EdifiedHebrew:
I have been keeping His Sabbathdays Holy no buy n no selling, I have been keeping His feasts days ordained in the scriptures, i don't eat unclean foods. I don't shave off my beard n head completely , I keep His laws, statutes, commandments & Judgments.

I don't observe christmass because it is the customs of the pagans.
I don't observe Easter because it is the customs of the pagans.
I don't observe January 1st because it is the customs of the pagans.
I don't observe anything pagan customs anymore.

EdifiedHebrew:
I told you that I keep His laws, statutes, commandments & Judgments. showing love to others, is it not part of keeping his COMMANDMENTS & LAWS?
EXODUS 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

13 Thou shalt not kill.

14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

15 Thou shalt not steal.

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

MATTHEW 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

The meat is too strong for you to chew HEBREWS 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
It means that you don't even know the question you asked me. Please go and check the question again or throw another question.

You keeping his COMMANDMENTS & LAWS, doesnt necessarily means you showing love to others and/or it being part of the COMMANDMENTS & LAWS you keep. If it was, it would have featured in your mention but it didnt

Please go and check Matthew 19:13-26, to see that your remarks were exactly similar, if not the same with the remark the young rich ruler gave. Do you now, see what is missing in your replies? Do you see that what is lacking in the replies, can cost one inheriting eternal life?

I repeat, you are too much in love with yourself, that you dont see others to mention about, that you've shown love to, given love and compassion to, and that's why and how you gave a typical "young ruler" reply to the question bloodofthelamb asked you, but then the thing about the truth is, not a lot of people can handle it. Not a lot of people want to face truth and that could cost one inheriting eternal life.

Empathy and compassion is missing. Your replies centred on yourself, your replies focused on achievements revolved round your personal accomplishments. There wasnt a single other human well-being relational factor, it was all about you, it was "I don't observe this...", I don't observe that..." I don't observe this and that..." and I don't observe etcetera..." You are the star of your achievements

LordReed:
If the god HATES child sacrifice?

Deuteronomy 12:30-31 New International Version (NIV)
30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.”
31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

So it decides that the best way to test its loyal servant is to ask him to do something the god hates to see if its loyal servant will obey a thing the god hates? And then rewards the servant for attempting to do the thing the god hates? How does this make sense?

"²Joshua said to all the people, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says:
‘Long ago your ancestors, including Terah the father of Abraham and Nahor, lived beyond the Euphrates River and worshiped other gods.
³But I took your father Abraham from the land beyond the Euphrates and led him throughout Canaan and gave him many descendants. I gave him Isaac"
- Joshua 24:2-3

Why Did The God Tell Abraham To Sacrifice His Child?

Before answering the question, let's acknowledge and get a few things into perspective first
1/ Abram, before becoming Abraham, was a worshipper of idols, an idolater, in short.
2/ Child sacrificing to these idols was a common and prevailing practice then and Abram was accustomed to it
3/ Deuteronomy 12:30-31 was formalized 400 years plus after the historic Abraham's near-sacrifice of his son Isaac
4/ It is a well known historical and documentated fact that Abram tithed in line with the prevailing Mesopotamia custom to tithe
Artifacts shows and testifies to heathens practice of tithing. Like few other things, tithing was a status quo, same as child sacrifices and/or ritualistic killing of children with Abraham then.

People then and even to date, are doing detestable things God hates and they really, are things, deserving intense dislikes. They are, things like, people believing that by performing child sacrifices and/or carrying out ritualistic killing of children they are pleasing or appeasing the god(s). Off track, another is, performing ritual sex acts, allegedly to get blessings, where males offer themselves as temple prostitutes to patrons for sacred sexual rituals purpose(s) believing they will receive divine blessing, favour, power etcetera at the end or back of it. Anyway back on track, from the slight diversion, so the reason why God told Abraham to sacrifice his child, funnily and ultimately enough, is to end the disgusting, foolish and senseless child human sacrifice practice.

A new Sheriff is in town, a new Person has come to power, the new Person has come into Abraham's life and is going to make changes. This new authority figure in Abraham's life, is taking charge, laying down the rules and letting Abraham know that the line on child sacrifice(s) is drawn. Sure Abraham was tested, to see, if he will carry out the command but fact is, God, from the word, go, and on principle, disagrees with the practice and so, we have it that, ultimately did not allow the sacrifice to happen and so the experience, presented Abraham with the knowledge, the understanding and the discernment that God is not into the business of child sacrifices nor into ritualistic killing of children, done supposedly by those looking for wealth, riches, fame and power or done to curry divine favour from these wicked and cruel acts

Many wont see the wood for the trees, as "test loyal servant... ask him to do something the god hates" is a red herring. It doesnt have to make sense to mortals, God is more sensible than the most sensible ever lived or living man

HenryDion:
How an all-knowing God will test someone still baffles me. Don't He already know the outcome

He does already know the outcome HenryDion, but does the testee know?

Self-discovery, is finding oneself, its taking the journey within, discovering who you truly are and finding out all the mystries that lies within you. Abraham, from that experience, got to know and learned many lessons that day.

"A wise man, can learn more from a foolish question, than a fool, can learn from a wise answer."
- Bruce Lee
cc CodeTemplar, tintingz,

sanpipita:
I'm not irrational, I'm exploring cons of decisions we might take, our responsibilities could equally to protect ourselves by any means we can, if we have to keep ppl safe from marijuana maybe best could be to keep it illegal though might really solve few things.

So do you then think, we might end up with a world full of people in same sex relationships? You said something similar when you remarked, we could have a world ending up full of junkies

Dailyhappenings:
The embattled Senator stated this on his Instagram page this afternnon. He shared the photo above, with the caption;

''Dino Melaye is like the scrotum of a ram,it will dangle and dangle but will never fall. God pass man any day

Dino the ultimate balls of steel Worogbon!

shosky1794:
So your accusations are based on rumours. Even Jimi Disu himself got the information that the place is to be converted to medical park and there are different sign boards indicating this in the former nursing school.

There is no smoke without fire. Take it out of naptuu2 too, don't be facing me only.

shosky1794:
Naptuu2 rejoinder didn't say anything different from what I said. The land still belongs to the Lagos State government. They are supposed to build a medical park on it and that has not changed. It's only when you see something else on that piece of land that you can start accusing anybody. For now, your accusations are baseless.

"There is a rumour that Bola Tinubu bought over the complex from the Lagos State Government and it is that rumour that annoys Jimi Disu very much. He often challenges APC candidates that they should explain what has happened to the complex and none has given a satisfactory answer."
- by naptuu2 today

Did you notice a difference in length all of a sudden with your nose?

sanpipita:
Isn't just about sex part, I'm totally in support of same sex relationship, but lots of liberal views could bring chaos like say we are legalizing marijuana now even with marijuanas illegal in certain places you could still have kids get access to them, with the legality it could be much worse we could end with a world full of junkies, there's also a case of pro immigration views

You can't because of wanting to avoid chaos not do the right thing, not do what is right or not face up to our responsibilities. Now you are coming off as sounding irrational, how possibly can we ever end up with a world full of junkies, huh?

sanpipita:
Interesting discussions here, while I could be liberal minded I believe some liberal views could causes chaos and needs to be checked.

What specifically is the chaos that needs to be checked, in two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses to enjoy a life long caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving each other lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour?

shosky1794:
But this one was not grabbed by anyone. The state govt have the intention of converting it to a medical park(or whatever they call it) but work on that has been very slow. So the land still belongs to the Lagos State government

I know that after you've now read naptuu2's rejoinder you are happy to retract your remark that this one was not grabbed. This man's greed is insatiable.

Ranchhoddas:
Just look at that image.
Nonsense.
Muttleylaff people them.

Lukatew hating on two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a life long caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving each other lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour. Cover your face in shame.

I doubt he will walk the talk, as you hope Disu, and you know it

obyback:
Pdp states that are not in "bondage" how are they doing?

Whats my own, as we lay the bed, we all will lie in it. Ye! Ye, ye, ye, ye!!.
He's just confirmed where to look for money to further enslave. I cant laugh anymore

obyback:
I think he answered that well, when government builds pedestrian ways and people decide to trade on them then its really a societal problem

Legislation etcetera that makes it criminal not to provide accessibilites in public places etcetera would have been more convincing, dont you think. Nobody gets properly grilled by Disu, its always padi-padi, chuckle chuckle smiling chit chat with him
Sanwo-Olu has just admitted that "Uncle" Jimi has been so nice to him.... can you believe that
I've heard enough, already late stepping out and work is calling

Anybody that votes in this stooge guy, are in for another 4 years, if not 8 years, of squeezonomics and further bondage

Dont mind them caller Solomon, it is a big scam and farce, the whole matter about the disability access issues. Watch how Sanwo-Olu wouldnt address that question in his answer

PS: I take it back, he actually did respond to it, but please what are government initiative and policies to alleviate problems of the physically challenged. See what I mean, his reply was even feeble