₦airaland Forum

Righteousness89:
[s][/s]

Young Man U lack understanding.... you are neither here nor there!

Accept JESUS CHRIST, so u get Understanding of Life.

Am Through with u

I see you can't even defend your belief.
You should be able to correct what you called my "lack of understanding." And in a meek way. But apparently it's you who lacks understanding.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

In case you haven't noticed, I who "lacks understanding" already "prophesied" and other artists are already reaching out to Cynthia Morgan.

Don't wait for misfortunes to preach the gospel. Preach the goodnews, not doomsday.

Righteousness89:
[s][/s]

You allow the devil to confuse and blind u from light!

Where did u see the Apostles Struggle or wealth?

Where in the Bible did you see David Struggle for wealth Nd Riches ?

Wake up young man! And stop Chasing Nonessentials! There is No more Time!

Pursue JESUS CHRIST and be Firm in Him..

It will save you a lot!

There is no more Time!

Now you're limiting it to wealth. When initially you simply said you don't struggle.lol Kontinu.
I simply mentioned that the disciples also struggled. In fact Paul acknowledged that he laboured much than the other apostles. His sufferings are second only to Jesus.

As per wealth, everyone struggles for it.

What does diligence mean to you?

What is the biblical condition to become prosperous?

The condition is same for everyone, years of hard work and patience. Being a Christian does not exempt anyone from the process.

Favour can only meet diligence.

Jacob, Joseph, David all went through the process.

I understand you have to quote the scriptures which says once you're in Christ you enter into rest. But the truth is everyone struggles.

I know how many faithful Christians I lend money to. Yet they will keep quoting that they will never be borrowers.

Thats the simple truth, if are not trying to speak Christianese.

It's just like when a Christian falls sick but the christianese in you says by His stripes you're healed.
Even when you are on sick bed you still don't want to admit you're sick.

Honestly, there's a very thin line between trying to keep faith and lying.

But that's what religion is, it wasn't meant to make sense. It's only meant to be believed, no questions asked.

Righteousness89:
You Struggle not Everyone!

It's a Choice!

When you are tired of Struggling you Chsnge base!

Lol meaning you're right and the bible is wrong?
But maybe you know better, you know you have more Holy spirit than Jesus.

As anointed as David was and even the early Apostles, they all struggled.
But your prosperity pastor doesn't want you to read those portions of the bible. And unfortunately you only know what your pastor teaches you.

Spend some times to study your bible, you will be less judgemental and stop sounding ignorant.

If there was no struggling, Nigeria should be the most prosperous country considering the number of churches in every street and eventhough we have many church-goers, there's a sizeable number of truly righteous Christian's. Yet we are always listed among the worst, most corrupt and poorest countries in every list.

You're either right and the bible is wrong.
Or you're wrong and the bible is right.
Your choice bro.

eplanning:
Hope you know you haven't made any point. Infact you haven't spoken/written intelligently at all. "Bible made it clear" but you couldn't show a single verse. Hmm?

I see you're one of those who have no cognitive skill of understanding until you see verses.

The description given to Israelites in the bible does not match that of a black person.

Esau was described as red-skinned. Genesis 25:25

David was described as red-skinned. 1 Samuel 16:12

David's son Absalom's hair. 2 Samuel 14:26

But I know how much you want to believe you're an israelite so even these verses won't convince you.

Righteousness89:
Having them is not Sin...

I seek GOD and he gives me all that..

There is a level of Life called Stresslliving.

You Get there by Seeking GOD and His Righteousness.. Then He makes those things available for you and to you without Struggle.

Life is Not by Struggle!! Life is a Gift from GOD!
You don't Struggle for a Gift! It is Given

That's where I operate!

But everyone struggles until they become accomplished.
It's not determined by religion or creed bro.
Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Dangote are not Christian's yet even Christian's aspire to be like them.

By the way, pastors struggle the most, especially when they are still growing their church.
Just thank God you never met your pastor while he was still growing. You will understand.

So, your basis for preaching here is flawed. Everyone struggles everyone goes through misfortunes. Believing in Christ doesn't automatically take that away.

Don't condemn someone just because they are going through misfortunes. I'm sure you have heard the story of Job too.
It's not everyone that would sing gospel music sir. Some secular artists have more love in them than some of your gospel artists.

Have you ever met Sam Okposo in real life?
You might understand better if you meet some of them.

Don't judge what you know nothing about.

Righteousness89:
Sir, What will it Profit you to Hit Diamond, platinum, Gold and all the $€£¥ with your Talent while You Miss Heaven because you used your Talent to Glorify worldliness and worldly lusts?

If your Motive for following JESUS is for food, money , Cloths, properties etc you have Missed Your purpose for being Created Bro.

Think about it

Hmm, yet you and your pastors are desperately seeking and even acquiring all you call worldliness.

Tell me the difference between your present state as a Christian and an unbeliever?

You fall sick the same.
You hustle for money the same.
You commit sins the same.

Other than you believing you will make heaven while unbelievers won't?
By the way, even you making heaven is not guaranteed I hope you have read this in your bible too.

DrPurple:
https://www.hipipo.com/home/2014/04/10/understand-the-difference-between-religious-christian-and-gospel-music/

If Christian is a term which describes a follower of Christ.
And Gospel is a term that refers to the message of Christ.
How then did you come up with your own definitions?

There Gospel is centred on Christ,likewise Christianity is centred on Christ, trying to make a distinction is like trying to separate the message of Christ from Christ.

This is a purpose less thread.

Righteousness89:
If only Cynthia will see this as an opportunity to turn to JESUS CHRIST and Make Peace with Him..

Some events that happen in our lives is GOD'S hand to pull us out of the Way of Destruction.

But Alas some persons try to use their hands to plug themselves back to Destruction..

Why are you people this sadistic?

Why do you wait for misfortunes just to preach?

You preach as if once people give their lives to Christ they become immune to misfortunes.

Yet some of the most depressed and unfortunate people I know are Christians. How come accepting Christ did not solve their problems?

The most annoying part was hearing every Christian turn the Covid-19 pandemic as the sign of end time. Even when several worse pandemics have been previously recorded.

I don't blame you though, I guess the only reason you are a Christian in the first place is because of your fear of hell fire and judgement day.

I wonder how God did not reveal anything to you about the pandemic but suddenly God has told you it is a sign of end times.

You're laughable.

Good and evil happen to everyone no matter your religion. Cynthia Morgan would bounce back better. Atleast fellow artists and record labels who never knew her predicament would now reach out to her.

She is a talented pot of gold and would hit again.

MuttleyLaff:
I am sure you studies English grammar in at least secondary school during English language lesson from where your English teacher would have introduced you to Conditional Particle Or Conjunction.

Now Greek speaking people, follow a similar principle when communicating in Greek. You are imposing your English understanding of conditional upon an opposing Greek way of understanding conditionals. Go read up on it because the NT originally want written in English, it rather was in Greek, so this means the rules in Greek grammar applies, not the rules in English language grammar.

You're trying so very hard to make fetch happen. For what purpose, to what end? For a gift that the lowest of the lowest on the hierarchy ladder

I have said enough on this verse et al, I just right now, aren't anymore bothered. Whatever floats anyone's boat.

You knew answering my asked questions, will find you out, that's is why you stepped them over, not bothered to reply to them

By your argument then every thing written in the bible is questionable since it was all not originally written in English language. Of course this is the basis of the very argument. Meaning as you aptly put, everyone should interpret whatever floats his boat.

But that only shows your deficiency in hermeneutics.
Scriptures interpret scriptures.
When you understand this you will realise that you can't make a doctrine on a verse in the scriptures if it is not corroborated by another verse.

By the way, you should probably search out your english teacher on fb and ask for a refund. Either he failed to teach you conjunction and comprehension or you simply lacked the cognitive capacity for basic english.

Interesting15:
God, the Supreme Creator of everything, never made a mistake creating you with your sexual urges. However, you must know that God has given you those urges for honourable purposes, and He expects that you will be human enough to put on the garment of self control, and never allow your sexual urges drive you into sinful and illicit sexual activities.

Today, different people are giving different opinions on issues pertaining sex and sexuality. However, wisdom demands that you don't build a pivotal aspect of your life around the fallible words of imperfect humans like yourself, but that you seek tested and trusted eternal and divine principles and truths.

Thus, as regards how you should approach issues pertaining sex and sexuality, you should prioritise and adhere only to what God is saying. And the Word of God is that the only sex partner you should have must be your married spouse (who must be a member of the opposite gender), only in the safe circle of the marriage institution.

WE ARE DESIGNED TO FLORUISH AND LIVE WITH THE WORD OF GOD

It is abnormal living outside the Word of God. Just like a fish is divinely designed to flourish inside the water, humanity can only find true pleasantness by embracing the Word of God and living in accordance to God's Will.

The Bible says, "By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God" (Hebrews 11:3). Meaning, what held the world together is the Word of God, and only through God's Word will our world make perfect sense. Since the Word of God is the Ingredient used in making this world, then God's Word is the key to the world's true fulfilment. God's Word is the formula for the world's well-being, as the Word of God is the foundation of the world.

No wonder our world is in its current state of unpleasant jeopardy - as individuals and institutions and nations are rebellious towards God's Word.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God Who has been with the Father from Eternity (John 1:1). Then scriptures says, "In Him (Jesus) was life, and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4).

Our world is a dark room filled with all manner of vices and harmful stuff. But when you embrace Jesus into your life as Lord and Savior, He resides in you and gives you Light. So you start living with clarity, knowing to do what is right, and ignoring harmful ventures of sin and the devil - which then empower you to have true dominion over the devil, sin and hell

So, you see, you must make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior, and start living in accordance to the Will and dictates of God. This is what you are destined to do! This is what empowers you not to be a slave to sex or your urges!

Call on the Name of Jesus Christ now! Sincerely ask Him to come into your life.

BREAK THE CONNECTION WITH YOUR SEX PARTNERS

Since having sex with anyone that's not your legally married spouse is contrary to God's Word and Will, then you must break the relationship you have with your sex partner(s) - irrespective of who they are and what you benefit from them. It might be a tough decision, but please, do it immediately! And you will be eventually glad you did!

In conclusion, perhaps you've broken the relationship with your illicit sex partner, but you are still struggling with the urge to go back to them (or you still have fantasies or see yourself having sex with them in your dreams), you have to break the soul ties with prayers and the Word of God! Pray and fast fervently, and get occupied with spiritual and productive activities!

God bless you in Jesus Name!

This is one of the problems I have with these pastors.

Only Christians are
suffering from generational curses.
suffering from soul ties
suffering from God's judgment for their sins.

Yet they told you the moment you gave your life to Christ you were set free and delivered from all these curses, old things have passed away and you became a new creation.

Wait, who is deceiving who?
Clearly it seems you inherited more problems the day you became a Christian borh physically and spiritually.

MuttleyLaff:
Tongue, an organ of speech, is a member of the body of a human being, not celestial beings and also is the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other people, so again my dear brother Goshen360, that is the kind of language or tongue, what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians 14:2

Why is it difficult for you and hoopernikao to accept that there were 2 different forms of tongues manifested in the scriptures? Distinctly mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13:1.

One which was human language (tongues of men) that could be understood by bystanders in their various dialects. Acts 2:6-12

And the second (tongues of angels) which no one understands except by the inspiration of the gift of interpretation? 1 Corinthians 14:2

donnie:
The Bnai Ephraim (Children of Ephraim). Most of them concentrated around various communities in Ondo state since the 1930s, about 2000 people in all. According to their traditions, they came to Nigeria by way of Morocco sometime in the 16th century. Their language is a mixture of Moroccan Arabic with Yoruba, but with bits of Aramaic, such as ima for “mother.” Other Yorubas may call them Emo Yo Quaim – the “Strange People” as like in most ethnic groups, the practice of Judaism is among a very small minority. The Bnai Ephraim have kept portions of the Torah in their sanctuaries which distinguish them from their Igbo counterparts who practice Judaism without much influence from the Torah.

They fit the Biblical description and still maintain the Hebraic customs of the ten tribes. From their circumcision, marriage, childbirth, twinning, naming, and traditional religious customs to the lisping among the Ibadan subgroup. The character of this tribe is in agreement with ancient maps that identify them as comprising primarily the Hebrew tribe of Ephraim.

Those of YAHUNDE (Judah) were placed in the region of West Africa now known as Benin Republic by the Portuguese during the Spanish Inquisition which began in the 1400s where Jews were expelled from Spain and Portugal.

There are also descendants of GAD among the Yoruba. Last Prime Minister of Yarubawa land, Bashorun Gaa is generalissimo, Yoruba war leader. Gideon is Bashorun Ga, Ologunda, Oludariogun, Ogunda, Gunda, Ogaadari-ogun, Gada (Gad). Ogaadri-ogun; Oga (Master, lord, leader, boss), adari (controller, commander), Ogun (war). Ogun-da meaning war destroyer, Ga-da means to seperate, break, cut down, destroy, Gun means to stab.

He is the biblical Gad, son of Yaruba, son of Adua.

The Ga people of Ghana are linked with the Gad of the bible, people don't bear these names for nothing.

Etymology of the name Gideone: British Baby Names:
The name is derived from the Hebrew gada "to hew down/off, to cut asunder," which has been interpreted in a number of ways. It was once interpreted as meaning "having a stump (for a hand/foot)" while others take the meaning "he who fells" and extend it to "mighty warrior" or "destroyer. Gideon is Gad, field marshal, soldiers highest rank.

The maps below were probably used by slave traders to source for slaves to be shipped to Europe and the New World between the 15th and 19th centuries.

The presence of these maps is a testament to the fact that western powers obviously thought that the Hebrews and Jews were living in large numbers in the West African region.

As usual, there will be three major reactions to truths like this:
1. Pretend you never saw it and wait for your pastor, priest or Imam to preach it.
2. Argue blindly even though the truth is peppering you.
3. Repent and start keeping the Commandments of YAHUAH as an ISRAELITE.

SHABBAT SHALOM.
#AwakeOIsrael


FUN FACTS:
-Baale of Judah, means "lords of Judah" in the Hebrew language.
-Baali is found in Hosea 2:16. Some English bibles translate Baale in the same verse as Lord.
-Baale is an equivalent title for the traditional yoruba king.

http://machpelahcave.website/yoruba-hebrew-israelites/

https://www.sefaturahyorubaresearchfoundation.org/443529847

I believe you've finally exceeded your smoking limit sir.

Kanu also believes Igbos are Jews.

Reno also believes Yorubas are descendants of Noah.

You all need to understand that that Israelites were not blacks. The bible made that very clear.

Missyajoke:
I hope we're blessed with this short message of mine as we understand how Speaking/Praying in tongues helps in building our spiritual life.

Why do we need to speak/ pray in tongues.

The full baptism of the Holy Spirit is always evidenced by speaking in tongues. In Act 2 " 1-4
"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and it gilled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire and it sat upon each of them, and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." What does " As the Spiri gave them utterance means" it means where he lives in the innermost part of your being- in your spir- from there rivers of living waters will flow.

Out of your spirit you'll begin to hear the voice of the Spirit giving you utterances. You'll hear it on the inside. But you have to open your mouth and speak it out. When you receive the baptism of the Holy spirit there is no need for dramatic emotion or jerking or falling down.

Some people, when they begin to speak on tongues they do not have fluency, or a large spiritual vocabulary. They are like little children when they're first learning his to speak, talking in broken words as they're learning. The constant infilling of the Spirit keeps you full of the mighty power of the Holy Spirit. Its a continual experience.

By speaking In tongues regularly, you fine - tune your spirit's awareness of the Holy Spirits indwelling presence.

Reasons for praying/ Speaking in Tongues

1. It edifies you or builds you up spiritually. Look at what Paul wrote to the Corinthians. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifies himself (1 Cor. 14:4)
2. Speaking in Tongues reminds us of the Holy Spirits residence wcorrectly ( John 14:16-17)
3. Praying in tongues helps us pray correctly (Rom.8:26-27)
4. Praying in tongues stimulates our faith. (Jude 20)
5. Praying in tongues helps to keep us from foul talk.
6. Praying in tongues bring spiritual refreshing.(John 7:38-39)
7. Speaking in tongues helps to build a sensitivity to the Holy Spirit.(Rom. 8:14-16)
8. Speaking I'm tongues gives us power to be witnesses.(Acts 1:

Theory as usual.
Did you dig this out from your foundation manual?

OP, what does the bible say the Holyspirit will make you?
You are to be witnesses of God. Acts 1:8
What does it mean to be a witness?
It means that win souls through your personal experience. Not what your pastor asked you to recycle.

On that note, can you share with us how you received the gift of speaking in tongues?

You claim some don't have spiritual vocabulary, did you pastor also teach you that?
Cos there was no mention of that in the bible.
Like you yourself quoted, it is the Spirit that gives utterance not your pastor teaching you spiritual vocabulary.

Having clarified that, can you witness to us what your personal experience with the Holyspirit is. And if it is not too much to ask, kindly share with us what He has told you concerning Covid-19, cos I'm sure being so intimate with him he couldn't possibly hide a pandemic of this magnitude from his beloved.

[quote author= post=89901087]God is a Spirit.
When you pray in tongues, your spirit is in direct contact with God, who is a Spirit.
When you speak in tongues, you are talking to Him by divine, supernatural means. [/quote]I love to hear this. Cos truly this is what the scripture says.

But how come you're in direct contact with God yet you have no idea what his plans are.

If you don't mind sharing with us what God has told you concerning this Covid-19 pandemic?
Is it from God or the devil?
Is it a punishment or a blessing in disguise?

Pretty please, we just want a little excerpt of your intimate chats with God.

hoopernikao:
No you haven't. And yet you haven't understood tongues and you must.

There are key issues you deliberately left behind and that is what will help you see clearly in Acts 2. You haven't yet on 1 Cor 14.

I am not fixative on 1 Cor 14. I said we must understand how tongue is taught first to help you understand it's practices. You are putting the horse before the cart.

You are like a fellow who refused to be taught or study the teaching on piloting a plane but start shouting I can fly a plane because I saw it being practiced. You know what that will end to.


So, your conviction on 1 Cor 14 must be proper first.

---

1. That tongue is one and not two as taught in scriptures,.

2. That tongue is not human language and it was never taught by Paul as human language.

3. That for tongue to bless there must be interpretation or/and prophecy.

4. That tongues was taught regularly and must be practice always with interpretation and prophecy.

When you are clear on the above, you will see A ts 2, Acts 8, Acts 10, Acts 19 clearly

So, that should be our focus now.

I think at this juncture you need some history lesson.

The first mention of tongues in the bible was where?

Did it refer to human language or unknown/angelic language?

Your answer to this question I hope would end this issue of 2 types of tongues.

Now to your number 4 point, it's not clear. Do you mean the disciples taught others how to speak in tongues?

If yes, please where in the bible was that written?

hoopernikao:
You aren't still reading properly, that is why you are asking such questions you have been raising. Read well, patiently and carefully. You are rushing hence misquoting.

Doctrine which is teaching gives you knowledge hence leads to spiritual growth. No one can grow by seeing events or experience. Experience has it's place but doctrine is what put them in right perspectives. True spiritual maturity comes from teaching not experiences. Experiences is what make anyone come up today to say anything even when contrary to the teaching of the scriptures. We judge all events, experience with established teachings. So, all documented experiences must align to the teaching of the bible. The problem here is you. You are the one who is yet to understand Acts 2. And I have said it many times here 1 Cor 14 is an explanation of Acts 2. Acts 2 is not an explanation of 1 Cor 14.


So read this next thing I writing well.

You should not neglect book of Acts or Acts 2, it is scriptures and gives us the history, practices and patterns of the early church.

But what you must know is, Epistles are direct instructions not events to the Church. They are explanation of all the books of the Bible including the 4 gospels and Acts. It is in Epistles you can unravelled various mysteries and uncleared issues in the bible. The spirit spoke expressly and clearly in epistles for us to be able to grow well.

So, I must first understand what the Apostles taught and how they taught an issue in epistles before going to explain the events. Events are eye witnesses, which the spirit inspired the author to document. Epistles aren't eye witnesses but spirit words, teaching you directly.

So what you missed is this based on our discussion here

You can't use Acts to explain Epistles. You must use Epistles to explain Acts. That is, you must read Paul's epistles well on tongues as that is all we have as teaching in tongues. Then use it to explain events of Acts where you have practices of tongues.

I hope I am clear now? I don try for you o.

Who taught you that doctrine can't be learnt from written events?

Do you just like to make up these false claims or you actually learnt this in a school of theology?

Did you just discard all the books of the bible and left only Paul, John and Peter's epistles as doctrine?

Let me help you, maybe you might need to go and unlearn all you were taught in your school of theology.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

The book of Acts was written by Luke, who was inspired and given a perfect understanding to write the books he wrote. Luke 1:1-4

ahnie:
Please kindly leave that compound for few weeks.
But if after few days of your returning back and the strange occurrence still occures kindly look for money then pack out from that compound.





Her death isn't natural.....she was killed!

You should sue Nollywood for what they did to you.

See talent. You just solved the whole case without any investigation.

Finallydead:
My day is blessed, thanks a lot. Wish you grace and peace from the Father as well.
Acehart, you must, if you're willing to, learn to put all scriptures in their context. Only an unskilful workman(2Tim2:15) does otherwise.

You just by comparing 1Cor13 with Gal1:8, discarded the context of 1Cor13. You are now guilty of inserting those seeming insignificant words from Gal1:8 that completely change its idea, like Muttley did that I was correcting.
An emphatic NO. It is not one bit the same tone that Paul uses in both.
And how can we confirm that? Follow the two different stories.
In Gal1:8, Paul used those words Mutt was trying to add to 1Cor13
Gal 1:8 KJV BUT EVEN IF we, OR an angel from heaven...
You see those bolded words there, they make it only an unrealistic example flowing with the context that "...some were perverting the gospel of Christ..."(v7).

That was why I had to make sure Muttleylaff got caught trying to add those.


But 1Cor13 is very different.
1Co 13:1 KJV If(no "but"/no "even" ) I speak with the tongues of men AND (no "or even" ) of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
You see the absence of those words make a huge difference when you put the text in its context from 1Cor 12:31. The "and" also is very important because it shows a strict pairing and joining of the two into the gift called "sorts of tongues".
The even larger context of 1Cor13:1 begins in 1Cor12:1, which is a branch/new string in the entire letter. We can title this segment "Concerning the Spiritual...(1Cor12:1)". So in 1Cor12, he goes on to list out gifts. After all that, he ends the chapter by saying

1Co 12:31 KJV But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet(or plus) shew I unto you a more excellent way(love)

So in 1Cor13:1, he describes a scenario (not an impossible one but a very possible) hence "if" in which the best gifts(from 1Cor12) are used minus love to show that these plus love is the more excellent way.

With all the explanation I did up there about 1Cor13:1-3, you ought to have already seen that Paul is calling REAL gifts already listed in 1Cor12 in 1Cor13:1-3, not some impossible scenarios. Not one of the gifts listed there was an impossible gift. So, if you want to single out tongues of angels as impossible, do it for every other gift listed in v1-3. Mutt, of course, knows better than to cheerlead you for that.
It's plain and simple, if you are humbly and objectively searching for truth and not trying to hold on to a position.
One last thing, on a field of search for truth, try not to be distracted by cheers and hugs. Maintain your focus until you find truth. If you still honestly don't know, I advise you go back to God in prayer.

God bless you.

QED.
I couldn't have said it better.

Permit me to mention hoopernikao.
This is how to read the meaning of scripture (exegesis) and not read your own meaning into scriptures.(eisegesis)

hoopernikao:
This should be handled differently. I wont look into this to avoid distraction. We have a serious view at hand and must keep that focus.

All i would say for now on this is proper context is key.
And also, by rule of bible interpretation, you cant build a doctrine from a single mention activities that have no corroboration. Such doctrine will fall flat when questioned.

Lol I see. Can you pleeeease expatiate on your meaning of context is key?

Paul here highlights the various spiritual gifts and clearly stated distinctly the tongues of men and angels.
If you read further you will see him list the various spiritual gifts while pointing to how Love is above all.

I have of course heard some still explain this away, which is why I was curious to hear yours.

hoopernikao:
You consistently ask question without answering my. It is not my exegesis, it is Bible exegesis.

Firstly, you must understand that teaching (epistles) as i have told you must take preeminence on events. You must use teaching to explain events because it is doctrine that brings knowledge and stability. You already have a wrong bias of Acts 2 and that is affecting all your interpretation.

---

1. Tongues as taught in the bible is ONE. Except we want to start looking at what is not lost. You will need to re-read the only place Paul mentioned "tongues of angels" and read well in context. He wasnt discussing tongues rather.

---

2. Paul took time to explain tongues in 1 Cor 14, and all his explanation points to the facts that no one can understand it except interpreted. This is what i have passed across in this thread over 100 times. Anyone who says Paul taught tongues as human language carried the bias and wrong interpretation of Acts 2. By Paul's teaching tongues is not human language and it cant be understood by unbeliever or believer.

---

3. Tongues exegesis was fully taught by Paul side by side with INTERPRETATION AND PROPHECY. I have said this 4 times now. That is the key to unravel your thoughts. Where tongue exist, interpretation and prophecy must be present for others to be blessed. Acts 2, they were blessed, Acts 8 same, Acts 10, same, Acts 19 same. Tongues will bless no man except the speaker. This is a foundational doctrine on tongues you must first accept.. and then read other places in scriptures as such.

---

4. In Bible interpretation, know that bible has what with called GENRE. That is, the style of writing and type of writing. You must fully understand this to know how to handle each book of the bible. Not all books of the bible are doctrine. We have Genre: Prophecies, Psalms, Epistles, Proverbs etc. The moment you start treating a non doctrinal book as doctrine you will have issues.
I have mentioned to you how book of Acts must be handled. It is an historical record of the early churches, including practices, pattern and events. You will also know that their was progressing knowledge in how they handle things overtime. That must be understood well.

---

Epistles are doctrines, teachings to you and i, to the church. They are direct instructions to you and i. They give you knowledge. That is where you must established all doctrine. When it is not taught dont go there, when it is stay there. But the challenge you have hard over time is you cant differentiate this so you end up mixing things up.

You must first understand tongues as doctrine (Epistles) before understanding its events in Acts. And you cant ever established in Epistles that tongue is heard by any human. Never. Take this to the bank.

Does doctrine change the meaning of what was written in the bible?

An account was given of the event that happened in Acts 2 where the promise of the Holy ghost was fulfilled and descended on the disciples. With it the signs followed as the prophecy of Joel came to pass and the spoke with new tongues.

Do you mean because it was not an epistle written by Paul, this book is irrelevant in understanding the gift of tongues?

At this point, I may need to digress and ask you a more important question. Are you a follower of Paul or Jesus Christ? Just checking oh.

hoopernikao:
You are actually the one avoiding all my questions. I have given you not less than 4 questions you have avoided now.

Kindly pay attention.

What you ask me is not a question because if you are reading my writings well you wont even ask such question. The question is from the result of not reading properly and paying attention.

See it here
Your question: Have you ever spoken in another tongue (which you never knew) for an unbeliever to understand?

I have consistently maintain in all scriptures that tongues werent met to be understood. That Paul's explanation of tongues to anyone is that it is not to be understood. So, asking the above is because you arent paying attention. How do you want me to practice what wasnt documented in the scriptures.

You are the one who hold such view that tongue can be understood by unbeliever, you are the one who explained that tongues was used for preaching, therefore you should be the one answering that. Hope you are satisfied now. Always read before having to ask.

Now,

Back to our discussion.
Does Paul's unbeliever understood tongues? Show me that from the scriptures.
Did Paul' tongue (his teaching on tongue) teaches that tongue can be understood by any (unbeliever/believer) without interpretation?
Explain how tongue was used for preaching and saving souls considering Paul's stand on tongues.

I am currently pointing you back to the very scriptures you started from which you think will solve the issue, but alas, you arent ready to stay on it again.


Also in separate post, i have raised you questions so as not to mix thing up. I need your answers to them.

Why will you limit a discussion on tongues to only 1 Corinthians 14? Or to only Paul's teachings?

Like I have already answered you earlier in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost when the gift of tongues was first recorded in the scriptures, we see clearly that it was indeed a sign to unbelievers as they were each preached to in their various dialects. It is noteworthy that they understood the tongues without the need of an interpreter. Hence it was tongues of men.

Acts 2: 6-13
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

If I must add, some believed and were converted but still there were those who didn't believe.

I do hope this answers all your questions.

hoopernikao:


Bro, this your exegesis nah wah o. Tongues of angels kwa?

Dont you read bible again? I hope you havent started reading Gretchen and Hansel type of book. You need to calm down and start reading properly.

All you put above are just assumptions. You are only trying to defend what isnt there. Wondering who exactly is reading his own meaning into the scriptures.

So, now, Acts 2 and 1 Cor 14 tongues are different? 1 Cor 14 isnt human tongue again as you said?
You must be from the other side serously.

See, how you started.
You mentioned that unbeliever in Paul's doctrine understood tongues. That Paul taught tongues as human language, that is where you started from. And i have challenged that without you having an explanation, now you then turn now that it is angels language. You will soon see Lucife r language.

Apparently, you couldnt defend 1 Cor 14 with your "tongue is human langauge" again. So, firstly accept your error. That is Christiany

I maintain and tell you, that without reading Acts 2 meaning into your explanation, you cannot find anywhere Paul taught tongues as human language. No where. And to start splitting tongue to angel and human is both a lazy approach to Bible study and lack of sincerity to understand Bible language and style .

---

Tongues in Acts is what Paul explained., no difference. Go and get that down into you. Jesus didnt promise two different tongues. Stop confusing yourself.

I gave you a clue to Paul's' explanation and writing on tongues but you dont pay attention. Paul taught tongues with interpretation and prophecy, Peter explained Acts 2 as prophecy, other places in [b]Acts has prophecies and interpretation. Cant you read it well.[/b]

---

Well, we will get there. I think 1 Cor 14 is already getting clearer to you since you have opt that it is now ANGELIC TONGUE and not human.

But please read well, again and again, So, that you dont manipulate Paul's teaching.

No need to argue whether there are tongues of men and Angels. Read it yourself.

1 Corinthians 13:1
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

I am curious to hear your eisegesis on this one.

hoopernikao:
You are actually the one avoiding all my questions. I have given you not less than 4 questions you have avoided now.

Kindly pay attention.

What you ask me is not a question because if you are reading my writings well you wont even ask such question. The question is from the result of not reading properly and paying attention.

See it here
Your question: Have you ever spoken in another tongue (which you never knew) for an unbeliever to understand?

I have consistently maintain in all scriptures that tongues werent met to be understood. That Paul's explanation of tongues to anyone is that it is not to be understood. So, asking the above is because you arent paying attention. How do you want me to practice what wasnt documented in the scriptures.

You are the one who hold such view that tongue can be understood by unbeliever, you are the one who explained that tongues was used for preaching, therefore you should be the one answering that. Hope you are satisfied now. Always read before having to ask.

Now,

Back to our discussion.
Does Paul's unbeliever understood tongues? Show me that from the scriptures.
Did Paul' tongue (his teaching on tongue) teaches that tongue can be understood by any (unbeliever/believer) without interpretation?
Explain how tongue was used for preaching and saving souls considering Paul's stand on tongues.

I am currently pointing you back to the very scriptures you started from which you think will solve the issue, but alas, you arent ready to stay on it again.


Also in separate post, i have raised you questions so as not to mix thing up. I need your answers to them.

But I read them. Painstakingly if I must add.

You clearly don't want to acknowledge the obvious fact. That there are 2 types of tongues- known and unknown tongues.

You can't explain away the obvious exegesis in Acts 2:6. Tongues spoken here were clearly in various human dialects that were understood by those who heard them. Without the need of an interpreter.

But since you would rather choose your eisegesis, let me change my question then.

Have you ever interpreted anyone speaking in tongues?

Goshen360:
First, I completely agree that what was spoken in Acts was understood by other foreign nationals. However, can you explain:

1. How it is a "new" (kainos) language the Apostles spoke as against an already existing foreign (allotrios) language which others could understand......as per the explanation of hupernikao

2. The language the Apostles spoke to other men was spoken men to men. Is it the same language Paul taught about in 1 cor 14vs2?

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:
for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries"


3. If you say it's the same, please explain why one was spoken to God and the other spoken to men....that is, 1 cor 14vs2 says, the speaker does not speak to men but to God

3b. Why doesn't any man understand the speaker of 1 cor 14vs2 but the speakers Acts 2 was understood by the foreign nationals that was present?

Good question. hupernikao is suffering from a chronic eisegesis disorder. He wants to read his meaning into the scriptures rather than reading what the scripture says.

Clearly, there are two types of tongues, some bible scholars have carefully named these Known tongues (lord tongues of men) and Unknown tongues (or tongues of angels).

Apparently from the interaction in Acts 2:6 we can induce that the tongues spoken by disciples here were tongues of men, as various unbelievers from the corners of the world heard each his own language.

This is different from speaking tongues of angels which would require someone also given utterance of interpretation to understand.
Tongues of angels cannot be understood which is why Paul exhorts that it should be done in private except there be an interpreter, lest unbelievers think the person is mad.
A recent example is a woman who survived a car crash and burst into tongues. While believers understood her worship others thought she had gone crazy.

That is simply what Paul is saying. Tongues of angels are private affairs except there is an Interpreter.
But today the case different, the whole church is full of tongue-totting believers yet not one interpreter.

Makes you wonder how come the gift of tongues is in abundance while there's paucity of the gift of interpretation.

What then is the essence of all the mysteries being spoken in tongues if no one understands it?

Or maybe no one understands it because not one of them is actually speaking in tongues but everyone has been taught this charade we nowadays call tongues.

hoopernikao:
Did disciples preached with tongues in Acts 2? It is clear now where your misconception is carried from. You are using Acts 2 to interpret 1 Cor 14.

Your evasive skill is second only to a shrewd politician.

Just answer the simple question already.

Have you ever spoken in another tongue (which you never knew) for an unbeliever to understand?

hoopernikao:
Bro. where exactly did you see speaking in tongues for evangelism in the scriptures? When you make a claim always add scriptures please. Kindly show that.

Acts 2:6
The disciples preached to the unbelievers about Christ.
What is evangelism?
Is it no longer preaching the gospel?

Ok, forget I used the word evangelism. Have you preached to any unbeliever in another language?

hoopernikao:
Firstly, when you are making such statement as above, the ideal thing is to point exactly to the twisting, not giving utterance that points to no direction. This is how we can progress and not be repeat everything over and over as it is obvious you agreed with some points raised even if you adversely avoided others.

You first started by saying, i cant explain 1 Cor 14:22 because that will put an end to the discussion. Now, i have done that, you agreed too.
After, you jumped as the discussion didnt end because you have a different opinion. Unfortunately your opinion have hidden some truth behind by jumping over them to explain other things. I will be taking you one by one on this in separate post so as not to mix them up.

Kindly pay attention. I will give you a summary of your thoughts in your last write up.

1. The purpose of 1 Cor 14 is charity (i pointed same out already)
2. Tongues profited no one: Speaking in tongues is only profitable when it can be interpreted. Other wise it is just empty noise that profits no one.
3. That speaking in tongues is human language (Speaking in tongues is a sign to unbelievers- if you who is not from my tribe spoke revelations to me in my native language I would marvel. Whether I believe or not is a matter of the state of my heart. While Prophecy is for believers.)

Not forgetting things you obvious omited in your explanation.

I will take you on No 2..

You said: Tongues profited no one

This is a fallacy of improper reading.
1 Cor 14: 2 A man who speaks in tongues edify himself.
1 Cor 14:4, He that speaketh in an tongue edifieth himself;
1 Cor 14:28: let him speak to himself, and to God

The first question i want you to answer is, did Paul teaches that Tongues should not be spoken? Or that tongues is useless?
Putting the scriptures on mind. Paul's language in 1 Cor 14, never condemned tongues but pointed to how it should be used. The place of tongues in edifying yourself and place of prophecy in edifying the church. No where did Paul said dont pray in tongues.

1 Cor 14:34 FORBID NOT TO SPEAK IN TONGUE.

Here in lies the dilemma in 1 Corinthian 14.
Did Paul distinguish between known and unknown tongues?
Clearly he does not forbid speaking in tongues. But rather that it should be moderated.

1 Cor 14:2 seems to be referring to unknown tongues. Which no human can understand except interpreted by one with the gift of interpretation.

This obviously contrasts with Acts 2:6 where unbelievers could understand the tongues without the need for gift of interpretation.

Hence it seems Paul concludes that speaking in tongues for personal edification should not be a public affair but a private affair. Except there is an interpreter.

While speaking in tongues for evangelism should be towards unbelievers in their own language. Hence why it is indeed a sign. Something they would have no choice but to accept as being supernatural.
Whether they end up believing or not.

Yet, you feign ignorance of our bone of contention as you continue to evade providing answer to a question I have repeated in every post on this topic.

Have you personally spoken in another tongue (lamguage) as a sign to an unbeliever?

FirstbornWds:
You are an idiot. A glorified one at that

It's only a joke, but why you so mad? You're beginning to foam at the mouth.

ican2020:
What is the communication between light and darkness.

Indeed many churches have greatly deviated from Christ instructions and adopted man's doctrine to please the world.

A friend of the world, an enemy of God

That's exactly what the Jews said when Jesus was dining with the so called sinners.

Congrats, you're officially a Jew and not a Christian.

TransflectTP:
Nairaland is not hospital. Try and seek proper medical attention.

The baby is clearly reacting to something sinister.
He should ask the mother very well, the baby might be reacting because he is not seeing his real father.

Officialgarri:
This Burna is just too arrogant. What is the population of people who attends his live performance to make him even think he is African giant? Oh, because they nominated him for Grammy

We know Adeleke's money helped Davido, but it's obvious the guy kept on building himself. He's hardworking and kept getting his shows sold out. Abi, did he use his father's money to buy fans too?
Music is business and Davido sure knows what that business entails

But the Oga Patapata of them all is Starboy!! Very matured and will never make noise. Sometimes looking shy and sober or like an introvert, but the truth is, that's how to play maturity when you are being pushed to act immature.

Respect to Wizzy eleniyan!

Any one who like quality music would rate Burna Boy higher than Wizkid and Davido.

But no doubt as far as Pop music is concerned Burna should know Wizkid and Davido are not his mates.

Him taking a swipe at Davido because of his father's wealth only shows his insecurity. He should have just kept quiet and see how his fans would be the ones defending him as truly one of the GOATs.

But when a the weed's in the system, ain't no telling what the most high would do.

hoopernikao:
Don’t forget that in 1 Cor 14:3-5, Paul equate the effect tongues/interpretation have to what prophecy will achieve.

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

So, the church is edified if tongues is interpreted, this is the same thing prophecy achieves. So, to an unbeliever too, he must receive interpretation to hear God (accept God). This will mean a mode of preaching the gospel for his salvation. .

Tongue has never gotten anyone saved and will not, it is a sign to unbeliever, a sign for his rejection of God’s word, calling God’s gift madness but when such is interpreted and point him to things he kept in his heart he will realize God is at work.

WHAT OF BELIEVERS?

Tongues is not a sign to a believer, as he should have understanding, know and hear God in tongue and not refer to it as madness. When you see a believer refer to tongue as madness, he is unlearned (idiotes) as Paul mentioned. Hence, a believer speaks with God (1 Cor 14:2, 28) and EDIFY himself. And by interpretation, he can help the church for COMFORT, EXHORTATION AND EDIFICATION and likewise help the unbeliever, for SALVATION.

Like i said, in the beginning, i truly hope you read carefully.

I'm beginning to give up and conclude that you simply like to hear yourself and not listen to reason.
You have only ended up twisting the obviously straight forward message of this book.

What was Paul addressing here? Spiritual gifts, with specificity to the gifts of Tongues, Interpretation and Prophecy.
I will explain it verse by verse-

1. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

This verse says it all, The purpose of it all is charity/love.
Also spiritual gifts are to be desired, but the purpose is to prophesy.
Hence Paul exalts the gift of prophecy. Why? Because it is the only way to understand God's mind towards the church.

2. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Now in this verse Paul explains what tongues achieve, that it is not to be understood but a communication of spiritual mysteries.
However this would seem to contrast Acts 2: 6-13 where the gift of tongues was first released to the disciples and understood by the unbelievers who spoke those tongues (languages)
This is why some bible scholars believe there are two types of tongues- known and unknown.
Paul here was addressing the unknown tongues.

3. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4.He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Paul here addresses the purpose of both gifts of prophecy and tongues.
Prophecy is for the benefit of all, while tongues (unknown) is personal.

5. I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I believe here Paul settles the matter, Prophecy is greater than speaking in tongues which no one can interpret.

6. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Let me paraphrase here- Paul is simply asking, What is the point of speaking in tongues if it can't be interpreted?

7- 11 here Paul goes on to illustrate how speaking in tongues is more or less making noise, without interpretation.

12. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Here we can see the purpose of spiritual gifts, is for the edification of the church. To help believers grow.

13-19 In these verses he continues to stress the pointlessness of speaking in tongues if it can't be understood especially in the church gathering.

20. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

This is self explanatory. Proverbs 4:7

21. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

I believe you've done justice to this verse Isaiah 28:11. That even with the signs, an unbeliever (hardened heart) would yet not believe.

22. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

This verse says it all. This is where you seem not to understand the intention of Paul.
Even though an unbeliever won't believe, yet speaking in his own (known) tongue is a sign to an unbeliever.
Imagine I'm a yoruba man in an igbo land. And someone who is clearly an igbo man with no understanding of yoruba language starts preaching to me in yoruba or gives a revelation to me in yoruba, I would be amazed. That is the intent of the known tongues. That is what the sign is meant for.
This once more brings me to my question which yet you continue to evade- Have you preached/evangelized to an unbeliever in another tongue?

23. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Clearly this paints the ridiculous image of what is today obtainable in our churches today. Every one speaking in (unknown) tongues, without interpretation. Clearly any one who is not a member of the church would thing you mad. I can relate to this.

24. But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

This is the antithesis of verse 23. If I a visitor to your church were to be prophesied to in a language I understand, and with a revelation I know to be true in a way that is convincing, I would have no excuse but to believe. But if I harden my heart still, then I am judged.

25. And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

The experience of an unbeliever who open his heart to a true prophesy and revelation would produce the reaction of awe and worship as explained here.

26-32 Here we see what is clearly missing in today's churches. I know because I have been privileged by my travels around this country to visit different denominations.
Here we see the way the spiritual gifts should operate. Those who speak tongues should be accompanied by those who interpret.
And those who prophesy should do so in an organized manner with others who also prophesy.
The church should have the various spiritual gifts working together in harmony for the edification of the church.

33. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Churches today make one question this verse because what we see in them is confusion.

34-35 has been interpreted by different scholars. Some say Paul was being traditional, while other maintain it is a spiritual order.

36-38 Paul here confidently affirms that any one who is spiritual would agree with him, otherwise, is spiritually ignorant. (You have to admire his audacity even towards the other apostles).

39-40 The summary of it all- Paul is not speaking against speaking in tongues but that it is only profitable with interpretation. Prophecy remains more beneficial to the church. And most especially, all should be done in moderation.

I hope now you will understand these;
-The purpose of it all is Love/Charity.
-Speaking in tongues is only profitable when it can be interpreted. Other wise it is just empty noise that profits no one.
-Speaking in tongues is a sign to unbelievers- if you who is not from my tribe spoke revelations to me in my native language I would marvel. Whether I believe or not is a matter of the state of my heart. While Prophecy is for believers.
-Everything should be done in moderation.