₦airaland Forum

MuttleyLaff:
You spoiled a good post with saying "there's a contradiction in Acts 2 and 1 Corinthans 14 about whether tongues are known or unknown right" and insisting that contradictions are therein

Lol the travesty of honesty.

Acehart:
Does this thread or writeup rather contradict spiritual gifts? Spiritual gifts wasn’t the focus of the writeup. The focus was the type of “tongues” practiced in the Corinthian church as it is done in many churches today. Did Augustine, Martin Luther, Charles Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, William Booth, Charles Wesley, John Wesley, speak in “tongues” as it is done today in Pentecostal Churches, C&S, and CCC? The writing was to serve as a stumbling block and if you stumbled, the Lord knows why.

You misunderstand.
I was referring to him specifically.

While everyone else on this thread believes in spiritual gifts, his organisation doesn't, and with scriptural reference too. Hence the contradiction.

Although, there's a contradiction in Acts 2 and 1 Corinthans 14 about whether tongues are known or unknown right?

It takes being open minded to see the contradictions.
I used to not want to see them too.

Maximus69:
OKAY, now i understand you Sir!

What JW Organization are echoing can't be grouped as prophesying because they are just contemplating on the fulfilment of prophecies written in God's word!

What Paul was saying is that the gift of prophecies will end when all what God had in mind for the future has been carefully documented. That's the import of the last four verses of the Bible when God said
"NO ADDITION and NO SUBTRACTION!" Revelations 22:18-19

So it has been done away with Sir! What we're doing now is watching out for the fulfilment of Bible prophecies.

NO MORE PROPHECIES OF ANYTHING NEW!

The arrogance of ignorance.

You believe the book of revelation was the last prophecy because those who arranged the bible made it the last book? Please stop.

Have you even heard of canonisation?

It's difficult having any intelligent conversation with anyone from JW. Your organisation already warped your mind with years of misdoctrinations.

Maximus69:
Never mind me Sir, after all the book itself is contradictory (according to Myer) so there shouldn't be a surprise when an adherent is behaving funny!

Lol I call it as it is.
I'm not bound by any religious creed not to be able to speak the truth.

It's you who sees the obvious contradictions in the bible and even in your organisation but you dare not speak. Otherwise you'll be castigated.

JW as an organisation is a byproduct of the extreme effect of the contradiction of the bible.

Example of which is this thread, while every one else believes in spiritual gifts, your leaders managed to impose their misinterpretation on you that 1 Corinthians 13:8 means spiritual gifts have ceased.
Does that not contradict the very essence of spiritual gifts in the bible? Mark 16:17-18

MuttleyLaff:
Zero (0) either means you don't know, you don't want to commit yourself to scoring et cetera

Scoring 9, means it comes out trumps 9 out 9 times. It means, on the hierarchy of importance, its on the highest rung of a 9-step ladder.

So please be our guest, brother, go ahead and do the honours

How do you even rate spiritual gifts?

The one you rate 0 or 1 could be the most important gift in a dire situation.

Goshen360:
@ hoopernikao, Myer, Finallydead

1. It is clear from scriptures that what was spoken in Acts was understood by the people that gathered. Hence, we cannot argue on that as we all agreed.

2. So I came to 1 Corinthians 14 with open mind to investigate and practically apply this misunderstanding of the word "unknown"

3. Because I'm from Lagos state, Badagry so I decided to apply the tongue language of badagry man, "Egun"

4. Because the word "unknown" wasn't in originally translation, I simply read it out everywhere it occurred in 1 Corinthians 14 and everywhere I read "tongue or tongues" in KJV I replace with "language or languages"

5. Since the word "unknown" was added by translations for better understanding, I asked myself, what language or languages is unknown anyway? So I quickly brought my "Egun" language in as practical step......

Is you following me slowly.... ....Btw, that's loosed African American English called ebonics just like we have pidgin or broken English in Nigeria.

6. I STOP and pondered on this word "unknown" and decided to do some imagery in the setting of 1 Corinthians 14, that is, I brought in imagination of worshippers with different languages. So here we go....

So I'm the preacher....so I'm the preacher with egun language and in the audience are French, English, Spanish and Yoruba ( let's limit to those four). Now, remember I STOPPED to practically investigate the word "unknown" assuming I want to use this word while I read through 1 Corinthians 14. So, definitely "egun" language is KNOWN to me as the preacher but UNKNOWN to the listeners. Hence, that word "unknown" is not some sort of language(s) that's from nowhere adding the fact that it was added by translations. SO THAT WORD "UNKNOWN" doesn't apply to ME as the preacher BUT to the listener. In this practical case, egun is UNKNOWN to the listeners.

7. So I started reading slowly, inserting my practical languages and at the same time questioning the texts of Apostle Paul. So here we go: I re read the whole of 1 Corinthians 14 with that concept and it makes much clearer.

I hope we go back to RE-learn or unlearn somethings taught to us in the church while we're new born babes in the Lord.

The challenge with Part 1 is that it's no longer a spiritual gift if you speak a language that's already known to you even though unknown to your audience.

Also it does not line up with 1 Corinthians 14:14

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Unknown tongue is not a tongue even the speaker understands.

The only explanation is there are 2 different tongues that can be inferred. Known tongues and Unknown tongues.

Maximus69:
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks~ Jesus Luke 6:45

We Jehovah's Witnesses believe it's a sin on our part if we do not clarify issues that may cause disputes in the future between us and our friendly neighbours!

Even though the truth {what we're thinking deep in our hearts) may hurt their feelings, we must find ways to express ourselves with mild temper and deep respect! 1Peter 3:15

So once again don't be offended Sir, it's what we know as truth in our hearts!

I was hoping to read your thoughts on the topic but as always all you do is advertise your organisation on every thread.

If only you witness Christ Acts 1:8 as much as you witness your organisation, maybe by now you would finally have won a soul.

Do you even realise you sound more like a Jew than a Christian?
Even the Pharisees were not this self-righteousness when God rejected them.

kelebobs:
With only #200 you can make #7,000 000 within a while. Daily withdrawal to your bank account. Ask me how

Omo even motivational speakers dey fear you.

This one strong pass wetin even sqtan offer Jesus for wilderness.

Maximus69:
Your own opinion Sir!

I just edited my response.

Your explanation is flawed because it was not the soldiers who were recounting the event here but the same Paul who stated that they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 also stating that they did not hear the voice in Acts 22:9.

But I understand you will go to any length to try to defend the bible. But would do the same for other religious books such as the Quran if they made they same goof?

Maximus69:
You forgot that this reports weren't made with comparison as you're doing now!

@ Act 9:7 it was the report that Luke heard probably from third party who might have narrated what happened to Paul when he was led about.

@ Act 22:9 it was Paul himself relating his personal experience as been directly involved.

For instance, how do you expect soldiers to explain such when their commander is with them?
OK you expect me to say

"oga i heard the voice but i can't see the person who attacked you, shey?"

My friend, we'll rather say we never heard anything to save our heads because if the commander should report what happened to him in our company, we are in hot as in HOT soup!

So to save ourselves we will all deny hearing anyone but the light which nobody could question us for because it happened during daylight!

That's what those with Paul will continue saying, but during a friendly chat they will disclose that they actually heard but can't explain what the voice meant!

Once again, that's simply your own explanation.

Your explanation is flawed again because it was not the soldiers who were recounting the event but Paul himself in both scenarios.
Why will he say the soldiers heard the voice and later say they did not hear the voice?

The bible unarguably literally contradicted itself.

Missyajoke:
You don't have to interpret what you speak. You're praying directly to God through the help of the holy Ghost. Tongues consist of different language e.g Russian, Arabic. I speak in tongues in Arabic. There was a day I spoke in tongues and a Muslim said I was speaking in Arabic. I asked him for the meaning and he didn't tell me. He said he taught I was a muslim

Telling you that you're speaking Arabic was actually a mockery. Are you not a Nigerian? Don't you know that's how we mock those who speak gibberish.

Anyway, since you can't interpret then it's pointless dragging this discussion.

The bible teaches that tongues should be interpreted which is the only way it can edify the church.

It's interesting you all only speak in tongues for personal edification.

If you ever receive the gift of interpretation of tongues, do let us know.

Cherez:
Wetin Nigerian president of your tribe don achieve for you.
I am Igbo and I don't want an Igbo Nigerian president for now.
I dey wait and pray for Osibanjo to enter (I will vote and campaign free for him) let's see if the useless overlords won't give him heat.
Naija wey everyone wan leave commit na him you dey fight for presidency?

You think Nigeria is worse now until you experience an igbo president.

I hope someday soon you get your Biafra.
Your igbo states already reflect the squalor Biafra would look like.

Tribalistic bigots.

Missyajoke:
Speaking in tongues has helped my spiritual growth. It has prevented me from dangers. Cause once am busy I start speak in tongues without control it means danger is learn so I excuse myself to pray in tongues extensively. Its a wonderful gift. Praying in tongues is like praying the mind of God in a situation, so concerning the interpretation if you pray to God to give you the interpretation he'll gibe it to you. Speaking is tongues is vital for Spiritual growth. So speak while some can interpret but if you pray to God he can't give you the ability to speak and interpret. For example I see visions, dreams, and am also an Envagelist. I hope you understand.

So you can't interprete what you speak. That's what I wanted to know.

How come there's abundance of tongues yet no interpretation?

azpekuliar:
N40m not $40m. Use your brain to process information before you run with it. The entire Okoye dynasty is not even worth $40m.

My bad. I was running on some guy's comment. Just confirmed from his side of the story it's 40m Naira.

At this point, word of mouth isn't enough, let's get the contract papers or let them settle it out in court.

eplanning:
Like Shaka Zulu? The same witchcraft has blinded you from recognizing the ancient civilizations we built like Egypt, Timbuktu etc.

Blacks conquered and civilized Europe but they have impoverished and destroyed our people in return.

It began with tricks lies and witchcraft until we're now yielded and subservient. But all that is changing already. It's not time to blame anyone, but to tell ourselves the truth and act accordingly. And as it stands, that truth is offensive to folks like you. Hope you see how you're part of the problem of our people.

The Awakening has begun and no man can stop it.

Are you a Nigerian?

If yes, then you're not part of the black race that conquered and civilised Europe. Leave the glory to Egypt and Ethiopia.

eplanning:
O yea.. The same race and ruddy. There you go

Their same race. Yet there's pigmentation difference.

Red skin is not a pigmentation in the black race.
It is more of a white skin variation.

Stop posting pictures of black/brown people and calling it red. You don't need to graduate from art school to know the difference. Atleast you can Google color palette to know what red looks like.

eplanning:
I mean his lies, tricks, cunning craftiness that has bewitched our people into hating themselves and believing, trusting and preferring anything white.

Success is attractive.
The whites did not bewitch us. We are simply attracted to their success.

Would you prefer to still be living like Shaka Zulu?
Or performing rituals and sacrifices to idols?

Yes, the whites are neither perfect but we can't keep blaming them for our own failures.

Made4naijalove:
Cynthia killed her career with pride, rudeness and drugs

But is that not the MO?
That's exactly how Wizkid, Davido and Burna boy succeeded in the industry.

She was just unfortunate to sign on to the wrong record label.

Imagine the idiot has the audacity to say she owes him 40 million dollars (3 billion naira)
How much has he spent on her?

Fear igbo boys.

Maximus69:
Of course you need such thorough clarification when relating an event before a stranger who might scrutinize your report!

Imagine if you're asked to relate an incident before your close friends, how do you compare such with when you're asked to do the same before a laws court where whatever you say could be used as evidence against you!

So you're reading with a totally different mindset from that of those who love to gain insight as to it's practical application.

The writers penned down those records for their fellow believers, of course a critic will continue to look for flaws just as the policeman asked to interrogate you is not interested in the lesson you're trying to pass across to your family and friends, but to finds things for which to nail you!

So the book of Act (Bible) was written by our first century Christian brother, we fully understand the message and we know how to apply it appropriately that's why we could speak the same language/tongue globally to make LOVE, JOY and PEACE reign within our global family!

God bless you!

How can I did not here any voice mean I did not understand?

That means they did not even hear the sound talkless of understanding it.

Any way, I can't impose my interpretation on you. Everyone has their choice.

eplanning:
-Esau is not Israel.
-Hope you know "ruddy" skin is not Cauccassian.
-Nothing of Absalom suggests anything white or Cauccassian. Only in the minds of the already brainwashed.

See ruddy people below... and by the way, that girl's ruddy hair is natural, so you can awake from your sleep and stop dreaming of oyinbo.

Esau is not Israel (Jacob) yes, but even you must agree that the brothers are of the same race. They're said to be twins after all.

Maximus69:
Please how do you comprehend this when a Yoruba man say~

Mi o gbo nkan to nso

loosely translated

I don't hear what he's saying

Of course what this means

I don't UNDERSTAND what he is saying
That doesn't mean he never heard anything!

I could recollect back in school when one of my mates asked our English teacher (Briton) "do you hear Yoruba?"

Mr Franz responded enthusiastically "Yes"

The girl spoke Yoruba and asked Mr Franz to translate, surprisingly he said "i heard what you said but you never asked if i understand the language!

So don't forget that the writers only had information to pass across to us, we are to bring it home by meditating on similar occurences in our own environment to grasp what exactly they meant by those writings!

Actually in yoruba there is a difference.

Mi o gbo could be interpreted as I didnt hear you or I didn't understand you.

But I heard a voice but I did not understand in Yoruba is;

Mo gbo ohun sugbon ko ye mi.

You see how these are 2 distinct scenarios?

Don't try to interprete the scriptures to suit your meaning.
Interprete what the scripture itself means.

It is obviously an inexcusable contradiction.

There's more if you care to see.

Missyajoke:
Please don't mind my grammatical blunder
Story of how I received the Holy Spirit

I come from a pentecostal family, my dad was an elder and my mum a deaconess. Whenever my dad prays he speak in tongues and whenever he does that I always laugh that what is he saying. During Church programmes the pastor will call out those that doesn't have holy spirit. I'll be the first to come , the pastor will touch my head and nothing will happen, when I was attending fellowship the brothers will touch my head, my stomach nothing happened. For many years, there was a day I asked God if others can speak in tongues why can't i. That day I told God that if I can't speak in tongues that's the end I went for a church programme and the MOG said there's a sister here you've been trying to receive the holy Ghost bust nothing has worked for you. He asked us to pray a prayer point I prayed but nothing worked but immediately I left the programme as I was going to my hostel I started speaking in tongues at first I was saying I bind you evil spirit telling me nonsense, but it continued I got to my hostel and throughout the whole day I was just speaking, I was uncomfortable because I had lot of things to do than to speak in tongues.the second day same thing. The day I spoke in tongues I was in my hostel it was very loud , people were saying what's she saying. The next day a lady came to me and told me what her sister told her " that does that speak in tongues are lying". I didn't listen to her

Reasons why people don't believe speaking in tongues is real
1. Churches teach their members how to speak in tongues.
2. You can't live in sin and believe Holy spirit will stay
3. Most churches tell their members speaking in tongues is not important and that we're not bound by old testament

Thanks for sharing.

Since you've been speaking in tongues what difference have you noticed?
Also, did you by chance also receive the gift of interpretation. Since everyone seems to have the gift of tongues but no one to interprete.

Apostle Paul did mention that if there is no one to interpret then speaking in tongues does not profit anyone except to edify the speaker privately. 1 Corinthians 14

Acehart:
Good morning. Trust you had a nice rest. Your summary is perfect.

Good morning sire, yes I did. Woke up to a cool rainy morning. Still glued to the bed as I am typing.

Happy Holidays.

Telm56:
There has never and will never be a gain in this thing. Our youths should wisen up and behave like youths from other parts of
The world.

Very soon you will see the perpetrators of this act, coming to NL to confess and stuffs.

The problem with this cult issue is the senior members claiming to have changed and telling tall tales to everyone that cares to listen about their past life.

Our law should start dealing with the repentant cultist first so the aspiring ones will start realizing that there is no end to this.. My two cents

Don't be ignorant, there's gain in it. But it's just not guaranteed.
Most of our politicians are products of cultism.

Acehart:
I agree with you with regards to the bolden. What Paul was differentiating in the tongues of Chapter 12:1-3, and that of chapter 12:10 is the former was not a tool for proclaiming Christ’s gospel; the latter was a tool for the ministers to declare the gospel.

I’d like to ask this:

1. Are the unbelievers in Chapter 14 the Jews who were in the synagogues in Gentile territories (as the book of Acts show that those who weren’t open to believing the gospel were the Jews)?

2. If Paul had in mind the unbelieving Gentiles, what sort of tongues would the believing Gentiles manifest for the perplexity of the unbelieving Gentiles?

These are questions we can only speculate to. We were not told the demographic of those who believed but it is understandable that a sizeable number would be both the Jews and the Gentiles.

2. Tongues as a sign to unbelievers is meant to be in the language they understand, otherwise it makes no sense to them and they call it madness. Both 1 Corinthians 14 and Acts 2 corroborate this.

Acehart:
I’d like to speak about the “tongues of angels”. I had written that the synagogue in Corinth essentially read the Tanakh - the Pentateuch, the Prophets and the Writings. These Hebrew texts weren’t written in Gentiles languages; they were exclusively written in Jewish tongues. Some of the books didn’t make it to our Bible but we see someone like Peter referring to the Book of Enoch, one of the apocrypha.

Just for information: Angelic tongues referred to sung praise in Second Temple period Jewish books. Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice is the principal source for angelic tongues. The Songs describe worship around the throne of God in the heavenly realms. Reference is made to angelic tongues. Throughout the thirteen songs there is everything ranging from accounts of how the angels lead their prayer service in the temple on high to detailed descriptions of the inner throne room where the presence of God and the other god-like beings reside.

In 1 Corinthians 14:7, Paul speaks of a “stringed” instrument - the harp. In one of the sources of angelic tongues hymn books, The pseudepigraphical Testament of Job, Job gives one of his daughters a stringed instrument. In verse 15, he speaks of “singing with the spirit, and singing with the mind”; and giving thanks in verse 17. (Psalms of singing and thanksgiving tongues are sections of the Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice)

If there was a deep yearning by the Gentiles to display the “spiritual gift“ of knowing the angelic tongue or the Hebrew tongue illustration of how Angels speak rather, would not the meaning verse 1 Corinthians 14:23 be clearer as all the citizens of Corinth who were members in the church at Corinth all speak in Jewish tongue and a fellow citizen (an unbeliever) enters the assembly and see such a manifestation and declare his fellow citizens mad?

You're taking this too deep.

One thing we need to understand here is that the gift of tongues and interpretation being referred to here are not learnt or studied from what we see in the scriptures.

In fact the vessels used have no idea, their own understanding of the tongues they speak or interprete is unfruitful.

It is meant to be a gift and an utterance inspired by the Holyspirit. That is what makes it a spiritual gift in the first place.

Maximus69:
The Act of Apostle was recorded by a disciple named Luke!

His style of writing is peculiar to that of a pharmacist, always particular with medications and specific when talking about illnesses.

Here Luke wasn't writing this story as an eyewitness of the event but as one penning down what he heard from Paul who was directly involved in the incident.

So in a nutshell, Luke is saying those with Paul were just observers of the event but they can't say specifically what happened to Paul.

They saw the light but since the one speaking from the light had nothing to do with them it never affected their sight the way it did to Paul.

They heard a voice but can't specifically say what transpired between the one speaking and Paul with whom Jesus spoke!

It's good you brought this up and i must confess that it's God's holy spirit that spur you to bring up the issue on this particular thread! John 11:49-51

The voice Jesus used in speaking with Paul was that of an angel who spoke in tongues only for the one concerned to grasp but if not Paul himself none of those traveling with him could interpret what Jesus said to Paul! 1Corinthians 14:13

God bless you!

Maybe we need to juxtapose both verses for you to know that your interpretation is flawed.

Acts 9:7
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts 22:9
And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

The contradiction is inexcusable sir.
He was not speaking of understanding here.
As you rightly said, Luke was a medical expert. Makes you question his attention to details though.

He said they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 but then said they did not hear a voice in Acts 22:9

He was not in any of these verses referring to their comprehension of the voice but that they did not hear the voice at all in Acts 22:9.

This brings to mind the baptism of Christ, where he saw the heaven open and the voice of God saying he is truly the Son in whom he is pleased. Yet only Christ heard it and no one else, maybe only John the baptist. And several other divine communication between God and Christ.

Although I'm still trying to understand why you decided to compare me to Caiaphas.lol come on, am I that bad?
They say God can speak through any vessel. He even spoke through a donkey right?

Goshen360:
It looks like we might have to slow down and ask ourselves some questions in order to learn or unlearn....depending what angle we're looking at.

So the question I was asking myself is, what's exactly is this unknown tongues or language of angel.

2. What or why do I need to speak language of Angels for if I'm not praying or speaking to Angels?

3. I think there's a misconception or misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the word "unknown" in 1 cor 14v2.

4. I think MuttleyLaff explained it and I also did some extraction and insertion into the whole of 1 cor 14 and its clearer to me now....

5. I did my study insertion AND ALSO extract that word "unknown" and asked questions while studying and that made the whole 1 cor 14 clearer...You might want to do same.

Cc: hoopernikao

Mind sharing your new epiphany?

eplanning:
Unfortunately for you, many of us are already free from white man's witchcraft. Black skin is now referring to a state of mind ba? We have eyes and we can read.

White man's witchcraft?
Can you shed more light on this?

Obijulius:
This is going to end well.

When Trump or any of his appointees accuse you of corruption forget it, you are corrupt.

The AFDB was becoming a Chinese lackey and corruption can it be ruled.

Akinwunmi goofed on this one.

We move! No time for jokers!

Let the better man take the office!

Apparently you failed comprehension in school.

By the time you realise that foreign nations don't want Africa to compete with them economically you will understand.

How can you not deduce from the article that he's being probed because of his success with AfDB. When have you ever heard of AfDB or any other African establishment make an ntervention support to African nations of the magnitude he made?

In case you missed it, he was said to have already been investigated and exonerated but they just want to frustrate him with allegations of favouritism

Whether they like it or not Africa will be free from them eventually.

Don't let tribalism blind you from your greater enemy.

mannyiyke:
Name that Igbo culture that celebrates a life of greed and crime. Look around you: are all these greedy and corrupt politicians mismanaging Nigerian resources Igbos? Are all these corrupt and greedy past Nigerian rulers Igbos? Why were they greedy and corrupt too, since it's only Igbo culture that celebrates a life of greed and crime? Among all the past heads of government/ heads of state, only Aguiyi Ironsi was Igbo. Your tribesmen are saints! Where do you hail from?

I pray we never find out. Igbo will never be Nigeria's president.

Islie:
https://thenationonlineng.net/brother-sets-pregnant-sister-ablaze-for-slapping-mum/

Igbos are trending for all the wrong reasons as usual.

What do you expect from a culture that doesn't respect elders but only respects money.

Igbo Amaka indeed.