₦airaland Forum

Its a good question, Tudor. Think about it, man. You need to answer it, rather than post some faces. Let me give you a clue; babies in the womb feel.

@ilosiwaju: I was going to present your bonafides on the 10 points, until I read the last line.

« #36 on: Yesterday at 03:03:38 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What I Observe about Abuzola on NLand.
1. I think he was a xtian.
2. He hides islamic imperfections by attacking christianity.
3. He refuses to reason and keeps quiet when faced with islamic/koranic blunders(he prefers telling people to stick to the topic)
4. He is absolutely confused.
5. He wants cheap Nairaland publicity, he is getting it cos he knows religion stirs controversy.
6. He will be quick to crucify xtian misbehaviour but will never mention Mohammed marrying a sugar-mummy(KhadijatUU)or being a pedophile.
7. He is a bit smart but not totally particularly brilliant as he is not objective at al. I have seen intelligent muslim scholars in the Doha Debates and you can't help but wish that's how all muslims think.
8. He fantasizes an all-muslim naija.
9. He will be like my friend, a muslim who says he can't marry a christian girl but can only have sex with her(what an ideology).Furthermore, he is a hypocrite.
10.Whether you hate him or not, he rocks the nairaland religion section with his islamic idiosyncracies.

Just my personal observations

It was just your personal opinion which you are entitle to. Thank Allah taala for Freedom, "FREE WILL!"

So whats your position on paying or consuming interest, which is completely an unfair advantage against the one who pays it? The Muslim Sharia in the Quran is completely against it. How does the Bible approach, from my view point, this evil of dealing between people?

Do you pay interest and have you received any?

Machine does have its advantages, by its being unable to control you and there, wating for you to make it functionable for what it can do for you. The disadvatages are many just as much; it can talk back at you so that it shows emotion, the warmth and human essence that keeps and fuel person to person interrelationship, at least above minimal, before you feel that there is a disconnect.

This reminds me of the people I have met in my journey of life. Talking to a person, what you get from the voice, brings some greater "I think I am relating to this person on the other end" notion, more significantly than an individual whose relationship with you have been through the emails without ever talking to hear each other's voice. You may have been communicating with a machine for all its worth.

But there is a mark difference and increase in how you value each other, when you meet face to face. Now putting an actual face and personality of emotions to that entity that was just a person in the flood of humanity on earth. A friend/person whose face, pattern of speech and emotional expressions you have experienced, you can tell when talking to each other on the phone or exchanging emails, etc the after initial person to person meeting, that you do know this person quite significantly more than you could have swore of your knowledge about him, just before you have that meeting. You now put a face to the voice, or to the writer of the email, etc.


Your friendshiip will probably be better for this singular meeting. Even if you never meet again, from the voice or writing, you can know if he is happyor what his emotion is. Yet before the meeting, it could have been difficult to truly figure him out.

My brother Abuzola, As Salaamualeykum wa Rahmatullah. I am touched by your prayer for me. I thank Allah for allowing your tongue to wish those words. May Allah accepts the same for you and indeed the ummah in general. Amin.

Yuou have said it all, in your last post; the age of Aisha bint AbuBakr, Zaujati Rasulullah, Ummu Muminii is not a problem or controversy in your life. Whether the was 6 or 60 or inbetween when she got married or consumated the marriage, it will not bring you closer to hell fire or drive you away from paradise.

Allah Willed what He willed for the prophet (AS). Those who malign him for this or that, will have something else to malign him on, even if she was 90 years old at the time she as freshly married to him. None of them however, in this age of HIV/AIDS catch and die russian roulette do it at your own sex, can claim that they were virgin(s) at 25. No man will marry 25 virgin will marry 40 years woman who has been married two different times, regardless of her circumstances; wealth or fame or other wise!

It is a general understanding that Makka prior to Islam of Muhammad (AS) never fell into the hand of any oppressing group, at any time. The reasois that the land was very harsh and at first glance has no real economic of startegic value toattract a conquering and or adventuros people, warring all over the lands. While other nearby land and people, eg Palestine of Israelites were falling under this or another coonquering kingdom, Makka was essentially ignored and isolated. The people were so backward that all they had was commerce and eloquence in speech. Even now, Makka is still an inhospitable land.

Considering all this it is no surprise that the people did not keep any real calender or data, which was the the reason that Muhammad's year of birth is te only thing agreed upon as the "year of the Elephant" warrior of Abraha of Yemen/Absenia nvation attempt to capture or seize the Kaaba in a sign of humiliation to change the focal significance from Makka to his territory as the place of the new Kaaba and Hajj. No one except the day iof the week, Monday knows the date and month of the birth of the noble prophet Muhammad (AS).

Since Aisha's age is what is being discussed, we must have to go to the source of those who will actually know when she was born. Her parents have to at least know something about how old their daughter is, far more than anyone else. But we do not have any specific information coming from them to help us better understand the time of her birth, except that her parents became Muslims of which Muhammad was the leader prophet of this religion. This single event should therefore be our baisi to know at least how accurate is the statement that she was 6 years old is!


We realise from the descriptions of the life of her father Abu Bakr siddiq, that he was a very successful man in his own right, in business and was well respected in the community as a good human beings with kind and noble heart. We also know that he Abu Bakr came from father who was in business, and had had a connection with Muhammad, once in his youth, in the same trade caravan to Syria, where on the way the met Mughira, the Christian Monk, who warned that they should not let Muhammad proceed to Syria because of the attempt that will be made on his life!

At least we know that Abu Bakr is in the same age range as Muhammad (AS), which is just two years. When Islam began, we learnt that Abu Bakr on his return from a business journey to Yemen, immediately became Muslim, under Muhammad who was his neighbor in the prestigious residential quarter of Makka. Therefore we must ask if Aisha was already born and alive before her father became a muslim, or she was not born at the time.

In all indication, there was no account that says she was not born. Infact it was indicated that Abu bakr divorced a wife who did not become muslim with him and separated himself or deny the heritage of the son who refused to enter Islam. It is interesting to know that the the wife and son combo, were the only one who did not accept islam, as his household, Aisha's mother and her two children and the step child from the disbelieving co-wife all entered Islam with Abu bakr. Please note that the son who refused to enter islam was already a grown man, at this time, while Aisha who was just a baby naturally became muslim as her father, the head of the household entered islam.


The other significant event that one can use as a bench mark for determining the probable age of Aisha is the presence of any known children in her neighborhood at the time of her birth. What we know, is that the Muhammads, The prophet and his wife Khadijah had a child named Fatimah, closest to the time Aisha was born, if we had to look outside Abu bakr for clue. Fatimah was just few years older than her and was born many years before Islam was revealed to her father. Many accounts which I will choose the least of the years before revelation says it is 5. It could be argued to be many years more, but for our purpose, 5 will be accepted. Aisha was reported to beat most 4 years younger than Fatima. All of these tell us that Abu Bakr already had Aisha, prior to the first encounter of Muhammad (AS) with Malaika Jibril (AS), which marked the beginning of prophethood and the birth of the stage of completion of islam, that started on mankind with Adam (AS).


At least Aisha would have been 1 full year at the time of the beginning of islam, and her father, mother and her automatic entry to Islam.

After this is established, any further controversy will have to be precipitated on this time of birth.

Brother littleb, May Allah accept yur efors and your clear insight to articulate on this issue. May Allah guide us all and forgive us our sins and provide us with the best means of substance for our lives. Forgive us and in he day of judgement raise us up among the nobles of spiritual nobilities, prophets, Messengers and suddiqun, suadah, etc Amin.

You have said it all and there is no doubt that Allah is capable of proving the position of honor He has placed Muhammad (AS). Allah says in Surah "Lam na shrraq" that "wa ra fa na laka dhikrak" about Muhammad; "And you are placed in the highest place of rememebrance of honor". The Malaika of Mountains when he was sent with Jibril to carry out the command of Muhammad if it was his wish on the people of Taif, Muhammad told the angel that they should not be destroyed by the mountain that sorrounded them.maybe their descendants will accept islam if they do not. The Angel said to Muhammad (AS) that Allah alway talked about the humane qualities of te prophet. About 10 years ago, I was at the library of Northeastern University in Boston and I decided to make my afternoon there. I met a young man just about to enter salah with me, so we asked each other where each was from. He said Taif, and I immediately remembered the coming to pass of the prophet's statement to the angel in charge of mountains.

The truth therefore about age is not based on look or height or any of those things. It is based on when a person is born. And finally the singular authority of Islam is Quran. The singular authority among mankind was Muhammad (AS). Ahadith was his saying. And sunnah was his tradition or what he allowed others to do. The saying of Aisha about herself, if it is true can not be ahadith. It has to be a thing that Muhammad told her that she can pass on as a statement, which will be ahadith. But then the ahadith will ahve to be authenticated for it to be acepted, and it must not oppose the Quran. Allah did not permit marriage of any woman who is not of the age of puberty. And a marriage that has not been consumated can simply be dissolved, under a specific condition faster than a consumated marriage that has a period of iddah with it.

As much as Bukhari may be a great authority, where ever any ahadith init opposes the Quran and the obvious actions and qualities known of the prophet, we must have to take what the Quran says over that. Muhammad dod not go against Quran, in all and every condition. Bukhari did not colect all ahadith that are available in Islam.

Finally, Allah raised Isa bin mariam (AS) out of the womb of a very young woman in her very first period, tops this great miracle by making a dead palm date tree stomp came alive and dfull of ripened fruits all in just a moment. All Maty was commanded to do was to make an effort to just shake the tree, down came the fruits. It was this that allow quick and from tere on, painless delivery. The same Allah allowed water to gush out for hetr to drink and wash her baby. The same God aided her against the authority by making Jesus (AS) defend her by haviing a full speech. And after this speech phenomina, he grew up as normal a boy without any special condition that stands out about her.

If Allah willed Aisha to be just two or 6 or 9 or 15, it is alright with me. Afterall, He turned a pece of flesh from Adam, to a fully grown woman, hawa who was the was of Adam (AS).

@buda atum: Now how can any of those examples apply to "the Biblical" verse of in my father's house, there are many places in it? That was my only inquiry. I could have agreed with youif you had said that the worshipping of the three god personalitie; Father, Son and Ghost, with a focal point by some logical miracle as becoming one is similar to the Ono kon o wo Oja yoruba statement.

One will have to asume that in Christian theological notion, ignoring or or two for the other that is focused upon among the three personaity will actually weakens thegodship/lordshipwhich they all become, hence the singular oja in this case.

Considering that a cat is assumed by its resillience to have 9 lives, the expression of more than one way to skin it is quite appropriate Yet no one thinks that cat has in reality more than one life, or other animals can not be skinned in just as many ways the skinner(s) wish(es) to go about it.

This is just my own opinion, even though I agree with your Ejirin robust expalanation.

@Stoneval: Muslim's daily mode of worship is primarily what you in general sense, snce you are not a muslim, just said above in your first post. The muslims call this salah. It is nothing that they made up themselves. It is commanded upon them, right there in the Quran; word of Allah. Muhammad (AS) the prophet that singly spearhead the last batch of the system to completion was commanded to make the same daily salah.

Salah consists of the intention: this is when you consciously says to yourself that your are going to prepare yourself so that you can make the next salah/ There are 5 salah in a day. Subh just immediately after dawn, Dhur just immediately after the Sun is past above the midday, Asr, just immediately the shadow is about twice the length of the subject casting it (in Nigeria it starts at 3.30pm; I think. I dont live in Nigeria, so not really sure any longer), Magrib is immediately after the sunsets and Isha is about 90 minutes after. Each salah will begin with the purification of the body and clothing. One have to be clean, in a way that their is no more impurity visible. The heart is completely prepared and the mind is focused this singular obligation, purposed by commandment as the daily physical frequent reminder (Dhikr) of your Lord.

Therefore one enters this obligation, with the sole purpose and intention to have a personal conversation with the Creator. The relationship of the servant and Who is being Served is never in doubt. The servant/slave enters the salah with full humility and humbleness in reverence to the Creator. The praying person if he/she is making this obligation alone or in congregation, the humbleness is still the same. The leader in the congregation praised Allah (The God, Olorun, Chineke, Obangiji, etc) by the initial gesture to enter and begin. From their on, everyone who is praying behind him, enters the salah.

There is the recitation of the portions of the Quran that is obligatory, each person stands up in rakah (Surah Fatiha), with any portion of the remaing Quran, to follow. The leader (Imam) the praises Allah, for the bending pasture (Rukuh). He will praiseAllah in a difference praise , until he raises himself up with a difference praise. He parsies Allah again, iwith a differet praise, yet again, quitely and then praise s again with (Allahu Akbar; most repeated praising words in Salah), for the prostration (Sajdah). In the face on the floor position is where the muslimsblieves that they are the clsest in reerence and humble humility, (and not humiliation) to Allah.

A muslim paises the Lord yet again with a great praising words and the ask blessing for the prophet and then make the request that he/she wants from Allah, then covers it with asking for mercy again for the prophet (AS). The blessing and mercy that are asked is for the good of the prayeing person, which is actually obedience to Allah's command in Surah Azhab (the Confederate). There are two facial prostrations; forehead and nose, etc must make contact with the floor for every standing and bending.

This process is repeated with a long sitting after the second round of the two bowing that will accompany the second standing/bending positions. If the salah to being offered is the after dawn salah (subuh) it will be 2 rakah and the long sitting will end the salah after the tashahuud. If it is Dhur ( after midday) is 4 rakah, Asr the late afternoon prayer is 4 rakah, the magrib at immediately the sun setsis 3 Rakah and isha that s the last prayer for the day is 4 Rakah, All persons is obligated to make thisdaily prayer, as long as they reach the age of pubery, anot mentally deranged and conscious not being in a coma. A sick person can lay on his/her side to pray. A person who has lost is voice can whisper or pray with the eye, and a ptraveller is provided an avenue of ease by shortening into 2 each of the salah that has 4 rakah. And he does not have have to make what we call sunnah sala either. I observed it as long as I lived in a place without my intention of staying there permanently. So if I were to arrive in Nigeria, on a visit and I spend 3 years straight in that country, if my intention has not changed to making a home as a primary permanent residence there, I will pray the prayers of traveller, and yet have a full reward. This is a merciful allowance from Allah to His servants who are under the stresss of journey.


By the way, it is Salah that singly separates a believer in Islamic monotheism from the disbeliever of he same monotheistic belief! A muslim who joins the alah in the middle, say after the first bending, he will have to make up the number of rakah that he had missed. For a person to be able to be acreditted for a rakah, he will have to join the prayer, by entering it properly, and gets to the bending position, immediately, while the Imam still remain in that same bending position. When an Imam leaves the bending position and a person have not been in that position with him, he has lost that rakah, and must make it up in orer to have a full salah.

Islam does not allow a person coming in at the tail end of the obligatory responsibility and says that he/she has prayed, just because he joins in with the others. Unlike other religions or ways, the responsibility of the obligation is personal and must be fulfilled fully complete.

Other part of the daily worship is remembrance of Allah (Dhikr of a different form that Salah) and reading Quran. Charity; Zakah and Sadaqah and Fasting and Hajj and doing good and avoiding evil, all for the pleasure of Allah are part of worship. This is just a tip of what mode of worship is. Salah is the primary daily and which allows the community toknow that you are part of the community. Husband and wife sleeping with each other is a worship which elps and prevents each partner from the possiblity of straying.Good manner is a worship. Kindnes is a worship.

@$Osisi: « #172 on: July 06, 2009, 04:04 AM »

Now you are reminding me of Prince Jegede Shokoya
The grandson of Idi of Araba
and the by the grace of God,the only young millionaire in the whole universe

I hae nothing against Idi Araba, or Prince Jegede Shokoya, grandpappy Araba; none of those is me. The most important thing about me is my Islam. The rest is gravy.

@Sleek29: And Allah knows that I do not loose any sleep over your convertion out of Islam.  While you left it, Allah has replaced your place with several many, in Nigeria and abroad. But am only making observations in bold to your statements which I think it is unobjectively subjective. But of course you are entitled to your own opinions, just in the same strength I, to mine.

« #175 on: July 06, 2009, 10:35 AM »  
reasons i left islam: We are listening and we have the right to critique your veracity of thoughts.

1. I couldnt understand why a man i am supposed to see as a role model married a 9yr old and had sex with her. Marriage he did. her father was an upper class person. There was no abuse or sexual abuse. There was no adultery and even his enemies did not use it to discredit him. I am sure it was an acceptable thing in the society at the time it happened. Now tell me when was this 9 years old bride born relative to the first year of revelation, 10 years before the Islamic calender? Was her father a muslim before she was born or was she born before her father, the first adult male to accept Islam, almost immediately it was established as a religion under the prophetship of Muhammad (AS) I need a clear and concise proofs. Walking away from this will not work for you.

2. why he had to have 11 wives or concubines (volume 1 no 268), didnt understand why one needs to have more than one wife and still be able to work for God. How many should he have had that would have been appropriate, in your eye? Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines, yet he was dubbed the "WISE". I guess the number did not deter him. Father Ibrahim was called Allah's friend and he did not have just one wife. Infact, Sarah was his half sister. Definitely a member of the fmily. Whats your point, and it may be that you are one of these guys who can do two things or more at the same time. Many people are multitasking.


3. i dont have the heart to kill (Bukhari vol IV, no. 260; vol. V, no. 630) I wonder when you find a killer standing over you with a gun top end your life, or any one you love, if you have a chance to kill him before he pulled the trigger, you will fight your heart to take the hot lead or do you instinctly work hard to preserve your life and the lives of your loved ones, by killing him, first? No? This is a man whose mother will be childles if you let your heart falter and let somebody who hates you enough to want your body to be lifelesss get the better of you. It is a dumb way to think my friend! Very dumb, indeed. If you dont care about your life, preserve it until you already lost your parents.
 
4. how can i abstain from sin using his teachings when he couldnt do it himself( Bukhari vol. I, nos. 711; 78; vol. V, no. 724) Yet he holds the key to paradise. Did you see the ahadith which shows that he will be the only person, okay first to have the right of intercession? What tribe are you, man? I think the yorubas need to improve their islam, because I truly believe you are one of these people who carry Islam by just names, and not in the heart. And those who will say I am hard on the yorubas, this is my blood, too. It is a self criticism!

5. He was illiterate  Was there a prophet or messenger (AS) with aPh. D. degree? The oldest University in the world todate was organised by those who followed the innjuctions of this illiterate man (AS). And compare the information in the Quran to any. You will find that the Quran inspires and agitates the mind! So much for his being an illiterate.

6. Muhammad forbade the game of chess! (Muslim vol. IV, no. 5612) , didnt make sense to me Is there anything that is forbidden that you do not understand why, at first glance, except Chess? Chess could be a time water, you know! Those who are managing their time will not sit around to play the game of chess, where a move after the last may take varied period of time, from immediate to many hours and days! THink about it.

7 We should drink camel urine as a medicine. (Bukhari vol. I, no. 234) THe smae reason a person will drink "Agbo" in yoruba land to remedy the sickness he has. Some medicine containssome strange ingredient(s) you know. Yet you get cured by their usages a s specified by those who know more about it than you the patient.

8. He was bewitched, and told lies and did things while under those spells. (Bukhari vol. IV, nos. 400, 490; VII, no. 660; Muslim vol. III, no. 5428) Speak words that are truthful, always otherwise hold your tongue. I will not refer to any prophet in the Bible, but if you read your Bible, you will see a coollection of either lies and evil deads or combination of both coming from some prominnt individuals.

9. He was superstitious about many things and made up weird rules about bathroom duties (Bukhari vol. 1, no. 144; vol. IV, nos. 110, 111; vol. VII, nos. 636, 648, 649, 650; Muslim vol. I, no. 458; vol. III, 3 nos. 5424, 5427) I have used that same rule to show suffistications among many elites whose bathroom etiquette was not different from that of any animal. They pee on themselves or the private organ is not clean and droplets soaking the underpant etc, while the exreta stains the anal surroundings, while they go about thinking they are clean. The first thing I get a person to do, is learninghow to clean properly after using thebathroom. Am sure you now know the difference since you left islam. Before you were restricted in Islam. Now you do what you want how you want it, in the bathroom.

10.  He was afraid whenever a strong wind blew (Bukhari vol. II, no. 144) and of eclipses (Bukhari vol. II, no. 167).i have witnessed one in my life.

and so many more, how can i live a life like this, its totally insane. [b]I am sure you love the new life you have now, where you can do whatever whenever without any restrictions or cautions! The people of noah took the same pasture, and where were they when the flood finally came? They saw it and it was all in jest to them, like any other weather phenom. Except this one is the last one to wipe them out. By the way, when I hear the roar of the thunder and see the lightening, I do not get afraid. I just say Subhannaallah. Allahu Akbar. Laa ila ha ilallah. Astaghafirullah. And I see a whol bunch of people trying to get scared. If am scared it is not the lightening or thunder that concerns me, but the possibility that I may be doing something wrong. But by Alla, so I enter the mode of seeking forgiveness, supplication and remembrance of the Irriesistable, more than I normally would. You see, as I do this, I have hope in my life that Allah will favor me. If He takes my life, He will have Mercy on me so that I will go to jannah. If He spares my life, I will continue to try to improve in His commands. What is is that your life is purposed for  other than the usual; sleep and wake up and eat and procreate?[/b]

@Nezan:Muhsin has said something which is very interesting to me. As a yoruba man what Muhsin said, as highlighted below, mean "Tori Olorun." Could you please say it in Arabic, for my own knowledge? I know that you are not an arab, but seem to have pretty much fought tooth and nail, clawing your way to discredit a Book that is written in the purest form of Arabic, not dia lectic to any of the tribes or clans, yet help as a pimary source of Spiritual unquenching fountain for the nutrient of the soul of at least between 20 to 25 percent of the world population today. Yet the percentage keeps on rising.
]quote]
#2 on: Today at 01:42:31 PM »
@Nezan,

For God's sake, can't you be a bit more fair? Both "I" and Abuzola's threads were locked yesterday. And I swear with the Almighty God nothing like insult, abuse, blasphemy, etc was said in these threads. But here, fairly enough, read $Osisi's threads. . .

Respect the OP and write your input rationally, intelligently and reasonably. Or else remain mute. Is there anything hard? Nope.

Thanks

[/quote]Now to your entry as copied below:
[quote]You people are funny. You create threads and when you sense some posts exposes the weaknesses inyour religion, you keep deleting them. Pity

I personally disagree with your observation. It is not the noise level that will change a lie to truth. A lie is still a lie. Truth is just one. It is clear when you see it, hear it and experience it. It is a lie that lend processing to interpretation and wantom effort to read sometime to it that is not obvious. It is a lie that will change every time. It is a lie that will always the goal post to fit prevailing temporary condition. It is a lie that is never permanently stationed.

This reminds of former VP Dick Cheney.He said there was MWD in Iraq. Then the war was waged based on this simple fact. Then american men and women lost their lives. Then he left the office and alas, No weapons afterall, and Hussaine was not in alliance with AlQaidah! Can you believe that guy? Yet in the past, he beat the drum of war loud and clear enough with this lie that all voices of reason were drowned out.

I want you to take notice of that. Lies can never pass for truth. In the long run, lies will fail and undoubtedly, truth will prevail!


But the For sake in English meaning Tori Olorun still needs your attention for its Arabic equivalence. The arabs are people who have a language beloved to them. They must believe that there is a Creator "Olorun in my mother's tongue; Yoruba". They the Jews and Christians among them must be able to have the same expression; For God's sake. Write it down for us in Arabic, please. Google it if you dont know any arab speaker in Abuja

@buda atum: How could you have drawn a similarity or similitude with the Biblical in my father's house there are many places and the ono kon o woja? The yorubas when they spoke this adage/idiom, Christianity is not known to them. And what is interesting about the adage is that it is self explanatory, without anyone reading "hiding" meaning to it.

It is the fact that Oja "market" is always the center of activities and meetings in sales, commerce, etc and not always far from the Kings palace. The market is the focal point, overshadowing the king's palace, which means that homes are developed arount the Market! It is like the Kaaba of the Muslims, or the Solomon Temple of the Children of israel! Hence people on the day of the market come from all the directions to this very direct and single focus of the people of the town!

The song of Ebenzer Obey says bi o ko kon o lo Ejirin, egbe gberun ee a lo! Ejirin is an Ijebu Village, and it is bordered oon one side by Osa. Ejirin Market is a night market and people come by foot and Canoes in those days. The canoe people was the Oko being referred in that song.

Eji je eyi o je is really the conceptual twin of Ono kon o wo ja; It could be the unassuredness of the matter that will make a person tries many paths to what they think is a similar possibilities. That is why Eji je eyi o je is more to it than any Biblical my fathers's place there are many rooms or places in it!

@nezan: That was not my question. Read it again and you are free to answer it, or simply ignore it.

But your query about Quran (not koran which I know that you are using to show your dislike), is very explicit about how Mary was able to get out of the jam that the "adulterous woman" found herself which the Bible explained Jesus saved her from the calamity of death by stoning.

My friend Nezan, you opened many issues by your response. But am sure with your modus operandi, so far, I believe you will divert and resort to calling names and will answer or address anything. But I could be wrong. Afreall, I am a human being.

@Pastor AIO: I am sorry if there was any time I ignored you. It is out of character for me. Maybe I did not read your post(s). I do not often allow the responses of any thread that I participate in to come to my email inbox. I have no need to let Nairaland issue (s) overwhelm me.

Unfortunately, there is nothing called Muhammadanism. The same way that there is nothing called Koran. I know the orientalists and others, but always non-muslims do label us with them, just as a way to get to the muslims. You are Keferi today and could be muslim tomorrow. My mother was kefer say 5 years ago. For a woman in her 80s to accept Islam, am sure there is a wider door for you to walk in (saunter in) with leisure into Islam! I bet there is a muslim blood in your blood, if you are from Ogun, Lagos and Oyo state, etc of the Yoruba traditional enclave. The Creator is the Holder and Possessor of the hearts of mankind. He hears each individually even if we all gathered together and ask Him all at the same time, each for his/her specific need(s).

Intelligence and ono kon o woja, are separate in a spiritual sense. But may be overlapping, especially coming from the intelligence side if it is in a searching for the Truth effort or mission. The man who is in ono kon o woja, may not be intelligence, and it is out of ignorance will a person be involved in many conflicting paths, all at the same time. Why would a christian be an ifa worshipper, if he truly believes in the christian way, which I will suspect will be complete opposing ifa and any of the sort?


It will only make sense for an intelligentman, who is assured of his chosen religious path, to not be ininvolved in the others, ifa, etc, except that he is still searching for complete Truth!

Will on the other hand, in relationship with ono kon o woja, is simply to demostrate that the choices out there is not being imposed in a specific way. You can choose one or many (ono kon o woja) or ignore all (atheist, agnostic) as the case may be. This is your choice, or your Will, coming from your heart, rather the subcontious that the heart is affected by, in a direct way, which with proper reasoning, it is practical and if with irrationality, it is emotional and irractional, illogical and somewhat a product of bad processing!


The Almighty Creator allows us to make our own coices; good and obedience that will allow us to be at the entrance of the Door of His Mercy. On the other hand, disobedience to His rules; denial of His existence, associating something with Him, or devicing another way than what He put forward as the only way to Him, all of these will lead a person and places him/her squarely at the inevitable Door of Justice.

And people ask the Judges in courts to temper justice with mercy. Mercy is more pleasing than justice.

And by the way, there should not be a need for father, in every case, especially if there is a symbolic essence to the "bringing about" as creation the person created! Afterall, there was no mother for Eve, unless we want to argue that Adam, a man was her mother? Then the logical question will be who was her father? Could Adam play the two roles, as a man? If the argument is yes, then it should not be surprising to know that Mary could also play the same dual roles!

But even when husband and wife plan to have a baby and have sex for that particular purpose, mostly the honeymoon sexual situation, it does not necessarily always result in pregnancy. Hence, God Almighty is the Only and Essential Determinant of when a human being is created, by any means He chooses! Jesus was a human being. He ate, slept, fatigued, deficated, etc like one. Finally he was born like one; from mother's womb through the sexual carnal ending with virgina opening, helpless he was as a baby. The usual conditions of every baby; prophetic or otherwise, ordinary!

@Aksat: Was Joseph at all the husband of Mary at the time of conception: were they leaving under the same roof and he a legal husband? Do you think any man will allow a virgin wife to last more than a few hours before she lost the virginity?

I wouldnt allow her to last more than a few moments before the process of her being disvirgined began! I don't know about you, it will be hard to accept a Jewish man who knew about sex, who solely married a young virgin so that he can have more children will be just looking at her and not doing something to her, with her so that by the time the process is over, she will know that she is no longer avirgin!

By the way how long did she remain a virgin after the marriage before the holy ghost "came upon her" that she was over-shadowed to the point that she got pregnant? It will be hard to sell, but am listening with open mind.

@Pastor AIO: Ogbeni yi, se keferi keferi ni e ni, abi keferi kiriyo?

Ifa ati awon nko be be ni mo t ma nri e. Abi onokon o woja ni tie ni?

@Romeo4Real: #36 on: Yesterday at 04:26:36 PM » Thanks for your respnse without having toshout at each other.

What i am sayng here is that, all those societies you have mentioned, have laws and constitutions broadly in line with the 10 commandments and the teachings of Jesus. If you refute this claim, the show me one law in any of the societies that directly contradicts any of the teachings of Jesus, or the 10 commandments in general.

I will not only refute your claim, but will do better to separate Jesus' teachings from Moses teaching. First, the State of Isreal, believe it or not does not recognize Jesus for anything. Hence you can not claim the constitution of said nation can be rooted in the teachings of Jesus. Rather it o be Jesus that finds himself rooting by his teaching in Israel, a nation that is deeply rooted in OT of Moses! By the way the OT lays by the accounts of the Christians attaching their claim to Jesus, is now a single liner; love thee God and thee neigbor! If the Knennesh believes in One God, Jesus is not part of that God! Te constitution of the Israel recognises the eye for and eye, etc, each and every part of the OT's 10 Commandments! This is not part of the NT, nor what you as christian still honor, like the people of Jewish religion.

The indu India could not copy for their constitution, the neither the OT nor the newer NT. The Indians wil tell you that they are a nation of civilized people long time before Ibrahim (AS), Abraham for you. It is not feasible that they copy the Bible, not when they have a rich and vibrant heritage, in the their mind, worthy of emulation!


[Quote]
I did not say this - especially the bolded part.[/quote]I must have misread you. I apologise if that was the case.


[Quote]
You haven't read my reply properly. I said exactly what u are saying, but making the distinction it was not a sacrifice demanded by God, , as Huxley falsely claimed. Here is the passage, and my reply again below, paying attention to the bolded part -

Passage
Lev 27:29 -“However, anything specially set apart for the Lord—whether a person, an animal, or family property—must never be sold or bought back. Anything devoted in this way has been set apart as holy, and it belongs to the Lord. 29 No person specially set apart for destruction may be bought back. Such a person must be put to death.

Reply
As you can see, There is no "sacrifice" here. This is about a devoted animal, that cannot be bought back or redeemed, or a person, due to a transgression, already set to die, that cannot be redeemed. It really is simple.[/quote]Tere is no sacrifice as well as forgiveness. But there is killing, since it is determined to be a sn/offense punishable under the law by death. Where does mercy and forgiveness come in, to at least in some special cases to stay the execution? Een hard nosed George Bush commuted some punishment to lesser ones. God in the Bible ust be erciful and needs tto show it.

@Nezan: This is not an argument but a discussion or rather my observation. Okay? Thanks. « #82 on: Today at 03:31:31 PM »  

1). You seem to be dull, dont your prophet say Jesus was the greatest of all men?:

Nezan, if you have that verse from the Quran or the ahadith, I will like to know it.



2). Are you denying the existence of the satanic verses that were later abrogated? why did you think Ayatollah Komenei declared a fatwa on Salman Rushdie?;

It is wonderful to know that all abrogated verses remained in the Quran, except what Nezan and others called the satantic verses. I know that Nezan added that it was later changed. But abrogation is another word for change in the sense that it is replaced. But what is this abrogation of the so called "Satanic verses" abrogated with, or was it just completely cancelled out? If it is completely cancelled out, then abrogation is not the right word for it. But why would that verse be cancelled out and Surah "He frowned" and Ayah that talks about cancelling adoptions by the divorce and then later marriage of Zainab the divorced wife of Zaid (RA Jamiah) to the Prophet (AS) be left behind? This I need answers to. Just for my own knowledge.



3)>How do you trust a plagiarized book when you have the original?

If you dont have serious issues to discuss, stop wasting my time, please.

[b]How is Quran plagiarised when some people have proven in the Christian camp that Allah was used in the Christian Bible, because they,  the Christian Arabs have no choice but to use Allah, The God, as a response, to the already existing Quran in clear Arabic? I will find it difficult to believe that an unlettered man can hear some story in a foreign tongue, and writet a better or at least what clearly rival the one in Original language.

It will be impossible for a Yoruba man who is not an Igbo language speaker to write a Book in Yoruba Language, after copying it from its Original Igbo language, which it has existed for "centuries", yet this Yoruba speaker is an illiterate, who manages to produce it, to stand rivalry, at the least that the Igbo people will have to begin to defend the Original still regarding its purity versus this new foreign thing from this illiterate yoruba fake writer! My surprise will be that the yoruba languaged Book is more detaied about the claimed history of Igbo people, providing accurately proven material, which the one that have existed for centuries  in igbo language for igbo people do not have. Finally, am still learning about life, and religions so when I see where the Quran says that Pharaoh died and his body was washed ashore, and the Bible is not clear about that, I wonder if the Quran actually plagiarized the Bible at all. Do you have any clear opinion about this point?[/b]

@Nezam: While you do not answer questions in discussions, you do not have to be caustic, at the same time! I as a yoruba man, and if you know how yorubas are with women, and at my age how the middle aged men in the western countries are chasing every tail they see, Muhammad (AS) singly, by my copying his human quality have stayed aware from unclothedness and cheap sex in America!

I know tons of Yorubas, Igbos and inbetween, in my age group in America that are worse than dogs, in their sexual perversions. Yet, none of them is without a wife! These people are all Christiians.

The muslims that I know, in america in my age group or those who pray regularly are safeguarding their sexuality. We are watchers over and against ourselves and the potentials of crossing the line! A person who knows what sin is should guard themselves against it. That is the beginning of cure and repentance and altimately forgiveness of that sin.

I like virgins. I also know that marriage is the correct way. So I will prefer a virgin for marriage, rather than a cheap thrill with a community chest outside marriage! You should try it sometimes. First, start having girlfriends. If you dont, that is good. Then make sure that the next sexual experience you will have is in your marriage, whenever that time comes.

The form or forms of angels are not some spooky thing! Angels when they do appear, the look like human bcause they are dealing with human, in their appearances! They are asexual, but take on male/masculine the more powerful gender look.
No angel comes in like a fairy! I watched and I was looking. I am sure there was no "complete" human figure in what I saw! Well of course, I am old, some will say. I am muslim, others will say. But my sight and my conscience did not act in an insufficient manner on the Video.

If anyone can tell me from any religious Boook that Angels do appear to humans other than in human form, though angelic, but still complete human form: clear and beautiful face, the works all the way to the feet!

Thats an inconclusive video, unless I have watched someting else other than what others who think that a less than 4 feet tall flame that could have been a form of phenom, similar to "jumping fire" which occurs frequently in forest fire, is to actually be an angel!? What did the "figure" say to them "young people" that will make them think it is an angel? Any clue? Anyone?

Am trying to find out good information for my own awareness!

@Gigantor: Am not an atheist, but I can't help but to remind you that the Japanese, the Chinese, the South Korean, the Taiwanese, the Indian laws and consititutions are not based in Biblical underpinnings. These people are not Christians and they are not Jews. I also believe that Russia and Israel can't be said to have the laws and constitutions enriched in Jesus teachings! It will be hard to convince anyone that Israel's constitution reflects this thing about Jesus, who they unfairly do not belief in his prophetic office.

And how could the last verse, #29 be said that it does not give the allowance for killing a person, when the phrase "must be put to death", is what we read about a person specifically set apart for destructions?" I personally believe that some people deserves to die for their evil deeds. I also believe that God has ordained death to catch up to everyone, in time; some in youth, or matured, or aged. Yet some before they have the opportunity to get to any of these stages.

@reindeer: It seems as if you are a Medical Doctor. Am I correct? Regardless of whee you come from, Nigeria or not, if you are still in Nigeria, now, you must have heard of Olusola Saraki. No? Well, he is a medical doctor, who operated clinic for many years before immencing himself in politics! He happens to be an Ilorin guy. I do not care or him, personally but the truth is still spoken!

You can't tell me that you have never met a muslim doctor on the soil of Lagos. If you would say that then, I think you need to have your eyes opened a lot wider! There are Hausa and Fulani and Gambari and Yoruba, etc muslim doctors, in Nigeria and abroad!

No one have to be a doctor to know this is the reality, because not all the doctors in the Gambari communities are of outside blood or heritage! And in America that I know, many and over whelming presence of Muslim Doctors from Asia is here; Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, etc, etc!

No society, including america is immune from having some portion of his people being illiterates. The appallachian range of mountains the coal countries of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kenturky, Tennessee, Ohio, etc of the USA, do have back water communities that would put the slums of Bombay/Mumbai to shame! These people are not Muslims.

Nezan the mo money mo friends didn't survive the 1990s after the death of Biggy Small and the song about it by Face! That was a decade ago, man. Just reminding you, thats all. No hating please.

Nezan: Has 21st century changed God from what He used to be in the Medieval ages? And would you prefer to marry a virgin or a "community property" as your wife? Today in america it is a pride to be virgins before marriage. Every woman wished they were. Every person who is a virgin is keeping it for that special someone!

Will anyone wants to have a community property for a sister or a virgin? I know what I want my nieces and grand nieces to be. I want by sons and all male persons in my life to be virgin, until he is married.

Virginity is a virue; There is a thread saying that in the religion motherboard. Read and then contribute your opinion against it, and wait for the virgin women to sear what you said. Before long, they will call you an immoral man!

@$Osisi: I promised an individual that I will never, again do the tit for tat bit with anyone about religion. Based on my promise, I will in simple term asked you; a man who says there are many dwellings in his father's house which he has gone to prepare for you; did he tell you names of the many dwellings? Please provide me, your dear "friend" whom you are blowing kisses names of at least two of these "many" dwellings? Let me help you so that you know what am looking for; in the white house, there is the blue room, the red room, the jefferson room, the great room, the oval office, etc, yet there is the resident quarter. Please give me something like that.

For muslim Paradise, we have Jannah nahim, Jannah mahwa, Jannah firdausi, Jannah ala, etc! All of them in jannah; the differences are grades, and levels, etc. The highest is Jannah firsdaus ala, will continually for ever be increasing in beauty, quantitatively and qualitatively sensefor its inhabittance, inheritors. This is what I want from you. Otherwise, it may be taking that the speaker who spoke in the Bible about "many" places, meant Paradise and Hell, since both are in "Heaven!" Proof; the same Bible speaker promised that who ever abrogated and or suggest to others to abrogate the "laws and the prophets" of the OT will be called the "least" in the kingdom of heaven. It is obvious that he is not happy with that person's and those people who followed that same person's suggestion to abrogate! Please help me to know these things.

Finally, when the speaker told you that if it was not true, he would never have told you, can we apply the same truth to his quotations, which he copied verbatim from Isiah? For example "Mark 12 Verse 29" says "Oh Israel, your God and my God is by One Lord God. When you read this verse, it clearly tells me, at least a literal reader that the speaker says he and his isteners have the same God Lord Who is just One. Can you read any other meaning to it, when what he said is that if it was not so, he would never have said what he said?

This is more of a constructive conversation than the senseless argument of my grass is greener than yours, that plagues the religion threads, while neither may really have not gone through the effort of testing for the pressence of the grades of the clorophil (clorofil?) in each, to actually know who is telling the truth! I will only discuss if we apply this principle, and dont blindly without reason tryto overcome each other! There should be only one truth. It should be absolute, without changing. The other may conatain some truth, but could never be absolute.The other possibility is that there is no absolute truth found in either, which calls for maybe another one is actually absolute? The other one could be Judaism, Hinduism, etc or even atheism or agnostics!

This is how I will like to discuss, because my time is very precious to me and I intend not to waste it, and or allow my action to cause anyone or me any grief!

I enjoyed your post Jesus's verses from the Books of "revelations and Epistles; letters." If we close our eyes and we hear these words without any religious biase, will these words move us to think about if or not there is reality to the "Place; Heaven" being supposedly mentioned? If a person does not have any religious leaning and he/she hears Heaven, what do you think his thought will immediately be, except just whaever is up there after all the layers of sky, alaxies? Compare that to Paradise, for a moment!

What if the same person hears Lake of fire and Hellfire; would he /she not at least say that they have some burning characteristics? Now how does Heaven compare with with Paradise?

And pedophiles don't marry their victims prior to having sexual contact with them or do they? The community dont just let him have his way with his victim(s) or do they if when they know about it? The father of the girl, who knows that his daughter is a victim will not turn her over to the pedophile or would he? Would the mother also goalong with it?

In all of Makka and madina, no one raised object(s), muslims and the angry pagans who could have used this as an obvious window of attack on his character! He lived at least 8 years after consumation of his marriage with his wife (RA)! Did any one in immediate generations, before they accept islam used this as an argument to claim that he was not a prophet?

How dare you and this "filthy and adulterous generations (am quoting Jesus as your Bible said he addressed the Jews), now hold any key to morality and claim that he is a pedophile? I know that it is ignorance that is talking from you. In the yoruba that I know, some 45 years ago, young women were married off at 25/17 to older men, say 30, twice her age! They may be doing it, even now n some part ofthat yoruba land, say the Villages. What is the median/mean age of the pigmiss and when is young too young among them? What about the aborigines of Australia's outback? Be real man, be real.

@Nezan: You see how unfinished product your Bible is? Unfinished and therefore corrupted, which allows you to be able to read anything you want into it! See, you had to come to the Quran you said a no Prophet wrote, or the one he copied from your unfinished and inconclusive "masterpiece" for rescue!

While you claimed that Isiah 7;14 is what gave you "God with us", hence he became your God, you never called him that famous name, Immanuel, at no time! His mother never named him or called him Immanuel, just onetime, but always Jesus. If we look at the two names, we will see that Jesus mst be inferior to Immanuel. No and I wonder why he was not called the more logical name, Immanuel to even allow us to have a better controversy to what it really means to be named Immanuel!? Well.

And Luke 1, 26/31, he was called Jesus, rather than Immanuel. His mother aught to know what befitted him rather than you arguing about a non-issue! Jesus never told anyone to call him Immanuel, instead of Jesus. And why so; trying to hide his identity as god? What a question you must now answer! I am gonna press you hard for real answers and not the white washes tat you have been allowed to get away with so far! This is my own struggle with you. Seriously!



Matthew 1, 18/21 said she was unmarried at this time, at least by your (Verse34), above which says she said she was not with any man. Where do you guys factor in old man Joseph, was my question? Was he her husband or not? If yes, why would she denied him, as said in the verses you quoted? And why would he not raise objections and want to know how she got pregnant, plus askig for the learned people to judge their case?

If they were not married, how come you guys always called him her husband and by such, the stepfather of jesus and in a geneology, his father? If they were not married, what was the position of the people when they saw an unmarried girl 13 or so, give or take some years, got pregnant, yet 33 years later a prostitute was brought before the child from this "pregnancy" to judge about her illicit sex, not her job now? Were the people blind about the obvious thing with Mary being pregnant some 33 years earlier and now they got so wised up that they are oppressing the poor prostitute? By the way, will pregnancy i those days show obvious activity of sexual intercourse?

Now answer my question or I will have to be forced to say that the obvious saver is the Quran. The book that clearly defended Mary by making Jesus miraculously speak, as a child one time, and instantly to save his mother's skin from being stoned to death!

If Muhammad copied this from your Book, and you dont have it there in that Book, please open your mind that many things must have happened to your book, which must include but not limited to; insufficient information, incomplete work or incomplete revelation or obvious deletion and additions by those who penned it! Of course they are humans, prone to mistakes!

Is it not time to take a critical look at the Masterpiece of all masterpieces? This is the Quran, the one you said is written by unlettered man who is dead because he is not a god ! How do you still hold dear the incomplete work, except you are stubborn from your heart? Anyways we will go back to Muhammad (AS) after you finish defending the indefensible!

Let me bother this woman, $Osisi a littlle. First; good morning. Please tell us where you will prefer to go; Paradise or Heaven?

Paradise is Paradise, where I am hoping to end us, InshaAllah, without any torment in Hell at anytime.

But Heaven could be Hell, because thats where it is situated right now, or it could be Paradise,where it is also sitated, right now. Where do you head since you clearly did not mention Paradise, in your post, above? Am trying to teach you something here. Answer my questions please!

Remember that both places, Paradise and Hell are in Heaven, so tell me which is an obviou question, where do you head into or ts just plain Heaven for you? Michael Jackson, is already there waiting for you.

Whats a disaster is Michael's condition now: Already met te two Angels who will ask him; Who is your Lord, and whats your religion and who is that man Muhammad (AS)? There will not be any correct answer from him, because his will be Jesus, Yahweh and ghost and thats just for the first question, while he has not even answered the religion and that man parts! He would have given three entities, all of them wrong instead of the correct and obvious Single Answer: Allah/Eloi in his american accent!


His answer about his religion will be what is named after Jesus, Christianity, another wrong answer, and his obvious wrong answer for who is that man Muhammad (AS) to you, will be proverbial nail on his coffin! His lot will be Jahannam be ma kafaruu, wa taakazhu ayati, wa rusuli uzhuwa: meaning it is Hell for disbelievers , and whenthey were on earth, they made jest of their Creator's signs and laughed with indignity at the prophet's effort (as if it is nothing and incorrect and not worthy of emulation!).


Again where are you going in Heaven? If you don't know, and its just plain heaven that you are going, then know that you have refused Paradise by your own mouth and the only place is Hell! Now think aout it after you get off "the initial emotional burst of rage of how dare that Olabowale is this frank! Its my job to shock you, in inyour face kinda attitude.

For me am not going to plain Heaven, but Paradise, InshaAllah. So, too are all the Muslims I know on Nairaland and in real life! I let the suicide bombers deal with themselves, and those who kill people or take lives without justice and mercy!

@$Osisi: By the way, how long were Mary after she married old man Carpenter Joseph, if they were ever, remained a virgin before she got pregnant with Jesus, your human god? This was the question that Oyb asked that you guys were too slow to catch up to! How old was she, since the age of maturity for Jews is always 13 when they barmitva?

Or maybe they were not even married, so was she living with him, then? Could any of the possible conditions of marriage to him, or not married to him but living with him not call for adulterious accusations of of both of them, if they were not married but together anyhow? And if they were married and she was still a virgin for 1 hours being alone (I do not think thats possible; lol), when she got pregnant, wouldnt he accused her of adultery? If Jesus was asked to judge a prostitute charged for adultery some 30 years later, what would have happened, to Mary some 30 years before? Could she have gotten off scott free, even if the old man Joseph said nothing,what about the people of the community, seeing that the oldman did not claim that he slept with her and the stomach due to the pregnancy began to grow?

Did anybody know it was not Joseph that gave the belly and still no one spilled the beans? Oh boy. Its a real dozzie!


I hope you know how how to dock? I hit my target, just as much as you can throw!

@$Osisi: I did not call Aisha(RA), my mother, a liar! If thats what you think I said, there lies your "interpretation, really misread of my statement." Aisha did not write the ahadith! It could not have been a ahadith, but a sunnah! Ahadith is what Muhammad (AS) said. Sunnah is what he did or allowed people without disapproval of said action.

And I believe that a man who marries a woman could not have been called a pedophile, because the act of pedophilia involves a relationship in secrecy! Could a man who marries a woman be called her rapist or sexual abuser, when they had a loving relationship that lasted their lifetimes? I hope you know that your definitation is warped, and this God Almighty willing will allow me to post my own by qualified psycologists and socilogists desciptions/the picture of a pedophile.

That I will do tomorrow!. At my age, I am sure somebody will call be a cradle robber/(I say rocker), with a woman I am almost 30 years older than! No, $Osisi?

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! big lol be that.

and who did crusaders, conquistadors, colonnizers, afrikaneers, KKK, skinheads, rednecks, and the conservative christian abortion bombers copied, and are copying? I did not even talk about the coalition of the willing (rather arm strung) nations. I am refraining from mudslinging.

lol, $Osisi (I like the song; Dollar, Dollar, ).