₦airaland Forum

Truthman83:
This makes so much sense.

Of course.
Simple truths always makes sense.

FSBoperator:
.
Falana you and your fellow gang of charlatans e.g Soyinka , Oby , etc have been exposed as frauds.

And that is the only benefit I can see from this dullard's adminstration .

You know, you have made an excellent point here.

Buhari's clueless rule has exposed most of the charlatans for what they really are, Falana, Dele Momudu, Soyinka, Tam David-West, etc.

KingEbukasBlog:
cc : plaetton , lalasticlala

I still find it very laughable that someone like Donald Trump would be a flag bearer for the so-called Christian values.

That's the part that makes me see evangelicals as hypocritical jokers.

Donald Trump lives and built his entire life flaunting every known Christian commandment, and more.

LiberaDeus:
Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

Thank you for putting it in in such a simple way.

LiberaDeus:
Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

Thank you for putting in in such a simple way.

damogul:
My Convo with you is done bro so you would do well to stop quoting me now. Thank you

Not so fast Buddy.
It doesn't work like that here.

You err, you get flogged.
You don't decide who flogs you and who shouldn't.

damogul:
Are you deliberately confusing yourself or you are naturally this slow? At the bolded....Even you have admitted to being in error when comparing prayer with tangible things like Opiods and other stuff yet you bring it up again here just so you can keep a failing argument going with proud ignorance?

I am done with you. Such level of dishonest ignorance! Gosh.

As a parting shot, you would do yourself good by reading the links i provided and stop driving this your empty tank argument.

Enjoy your day

Gosh! I really don't know how you guys studied the English language.
First of all, I never admitted error in comparing prayer with opioids.
The comparisons are accurate. Same illusionary highs, same deep lows, same addictive tendencies.

It is you who never fully comprehended my point.
You read, you pick words, but the points always seem to elude you.

The links, the report you are citing is not in anyway controversial.
The report, let me remind you did not mention anything specifically unique about prayers, and it's mind tonic on the human psyche.
And I am reminding again, for the third time, that prayer is a placebo, and that all placebos have the same tonic effects.
The negative consequences of addiction, whether to placebos, opioids or prayers is what draws our attention, not the mild, fading tonics.

damogul:
You guys will not read for sake of knowledge but will only do so for sake of attacking Christianity hence miss out on proper knowledge.

I gave you expo by posting a portion from one of the websites but the obvious on what i posted was missed by you. Let me post the particular spot for you again,

[/b]


Yet you typed all that crap up there just so you can save face. I asked you a simple question. If science endorses prayer is science also wrong?

I have said repeatedly that science supports religion but you guys keep on trying to shoot it down thereby making yourselves look and sound ridiculous. I suggest you read some more and this time pay attention to the details especially since you missed the first expo i gave you.

http://www.newsmax.com/Health/Headline/prayer-health-faith-medicine/2015/03/31/id/635623/

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/09/18/new-study-examines-the-effects-of-prayer-on-mental-health/

http://undergroundhealthreporter.com/effects-of-prayer-can-lead-to-healing/

The level of ignorance you guys exhibit here on NL is appalling and all in a bid to shoot down religious practices you fabricate all sorts even when your very beloved science says you are wrong you would never admit to your error.

Well read up the links provided and be honorable enough to accept you are wrong.

You are the one who is reading without comprehending.

We don't need scientists to tell us the tangible benefits of prayer. The people who pray have already told us so, but in the same manner that smokers claim tangible benefits or that sex and gambling addicts claim tangible benefits.
Therefore, there is nothing new there.

And I also reminded you, which you obviously missed, that placebos, whether substances or mental constructs , have the same temporary illusionary effects on subjects.

And I also repeat to you that from personal experience, the people that I see pray the most or engage in religious rituals the most, always seem the most detached, unhappy, unfulfilled. And that religious zeal, whose main symptom is frequent prayers, are very often a mask for deeper psychological issues.
I guess you missed that part too ?

damogul:
So now you have taken back your words when you compared prayer with actual substances. When you want to goof up do so with some pride. I have highlighted your ignorance free of charge in your comment. Now read up and take correction.

According to a 2013 Pew Research Poll, over half of Americans pray every day. A 2012 poll found that over 75 percent of Americans believe that prayer is an important part of daily life. Other polls indicate that even some atheists and religiously unaffiliated individuals admit that they sometimes pray.

Our species has probably been praying for as long as we have been able to contemplate our existence. And though we may never be able to establish evidence that a deity or spiritual force actually hears our prayers, in recent years, scientists have begun to consider the potential tangible (i.e., measurable) effects of prayer. And this research suggests that prayer may be very beneficial.

So here are five scientifically-supported benefits of prayer:

1. Prayer improves self-control

2. Prayer makes you nicer

4. Prayer increases trust

5. Prayer offsets the negative health effects of stress

6. Makes you stress free:

7. Reduces your chances of suffering from depression and anxiety

8. Helps you deal with emotional onslaught

9. Makes you happier

10. Speeds up post-surgical recovery

11. Keeps diseases at bay

12. Is good for your heart

13. Helps you live longer

Read the rest here

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-mortal/201406/5-scientifically-supported-benefits-prayer

and here

http://www.thehealthsite.com/diseases-conditions/10-ways-praying-actually-benefits-your-health-p114/

As you can see those are not Christian sites so no way you can say i am cherry picking.

Number 9 there is the reason someone like the OP is very bitter with everything ad everyone around him. His diagnosis is simply that he does not engage in prayer.

You plaetton should try it some time especially since your much beloved science endorses it. Or is Science also wrong?

cc Grizzlybear, hopefullandlord

Placebos, all placebos, whether substance or mental , have the same effects.

I used to talk to myself a lot, often to help me deal with difficult issues.
Also, At times when I am in trouble or under threat, I still feel that my dead ancestors protect and guide me.

So, it's quite natural to create imaginary beings outside of reality to help us COPE.

And COPE is the operative word here. It connotes powerlessness.

But knowledge is BETTER.

With the right knowledge, one doesn't have to conjure imaginary beings to be able to COPE.

With knowledge, there is little that a rational person cannot confront.

Therefore, I agree that prayer is indeed a coping mechanism. But so are also alcohol, opioids, obsessive compulsive behaviors, racism and bigotry, etc etc.

It's easy for people who pray to tell themselves that they are happier.
I beg to disagree.
Prayer itself is a petition, an Oliver Twist syndrome( asking for more than you're given). It is a sign of dissatisfaction for a universe that doesn't give a rat's bottom about personal needs.
Prayer is a way of telling god that the universe is not good enough and should be made better, if only for me.

So, one who repeats this petition to a deaf universe several times everyday is unsatisfied with the status quo , and would inevitably grow despondent.

From personal experience, I have never, and I mean it, seen a happy, self-fulfilled prayer addict.

On the other hand, the frequency , pitch and volume of prayers are often pointers to deeper psychological problems and in most cases benign mental illnesses.

naijadeyhia:
Do you see how silly you sound? Is alcohol not a substance? Are Opiods not subsances? Is prayer a physical "Subtance"? Is Faith Physical or spiritual but with human agency?

Sometimes i just sit back pick my bottle of Pepsi with my biscuits and just watch you guys make an open show of what irrationality truly is.

Lol.

Actually the fact that faith is not a substance, but affects people in similar and more profound negative ways is the reason why it is much more pernicious than alcohol, opioids and other substances.

WinningSun:
please can you explain to me. what wind the wind. what power controls the wind.

If you had paid enough attention during geography lessons in school, you wouldn't be asking that daft question.

naijadeyhia:
Prayer actually soothes the mind and stimulates peace psychologically...You can ask your shrink.

Alcohol also soothes the mind and stimulates peace psychologically.Ask anyone who drinks.

Opioids also soothes the mind and stimulates peace psychologically. You can ask any addict.

What the three have in common is that they are all give temporary, illusionary highs.
They are all also addictive and can leave very deep psychological lows once the initial highs diminish.


https://www.nairaland.com/1452318/faith-prayers-law-diminishing-returns

hopefulLandlord:
Amazing Thread!

prayer just gives some kind of psychological "confidence" in face of uncertainty which might be effective on the surface BUT that "confidence" is usually all you needed in the first place

Prayer is like betting to a chronic gambler, you'll never hear them talk about their losses

you'll hear them give testimonies about how prayers helped them overcome a problem but dig a bit deeper and you'll most likely see that a lot of other factors were responsible for that

people who claim prayer works don't know or feign negligence about the laws of probability

Amazing thread indeed.

I like to write from personal experience.
And I can tell you, I really , sincerely feel sorry for many of the Christians, friends and family , that I come in contact with everyday.
I feel sorry for them in the way I would feel sorry for a compulsive gambler, someone who gambles everyday, hoping that his/her luck would shine on the next bet.

I also feel sorry for them in the same way I would feel for opium or crack addicts that can't get through the day without a fix.
There is nothing so ridiculous that I haven't seen concerning prayers.
And this has to be one of the reasons I loathe religion sooo much: how it drains the living spirit right out of people.

I see so many prayer addicts around me. I pity them so much that I wish there was a prayer recovery therapy or rehab that are available to help these people, if at all they can agree that they need help.

I have concluded long ago, and I opened a thread about it, that prayers are more about DOUBTS than they are about the so-called faith.
In fact, by definition, prayer and faith contradict each other, and should not co-exist.

Prayer showcases the inner psychology of faith , and reveals the big surprise that Faith = Doubts + Fear.

There is nothing more contradictory and pathetic about religious faith than Prayers.

jonbellion:
prayer entails the idea of attempting to make an allegedly omniscient entity aware of something. It also involves messing with an allegedly divine plan, and divine plan or indirectly arguing that the person praying could somehow improve upon God's intent or design.
Lol comedy
Godbotherers never seem to consider that their constant pleading of God might piss him off.
Help me with my body odour even though I have bad hygiene
Help me find my car keys even though I'm careless
Make me better in bed even though I don't practice
Help me with my test even though i didn't read

And,
Let thy will be done,but, but please alter it just for me.

naijadeyhia:
Prayer is an act of faith.

Mathew 26:41...

WATCH AND PRAY SO THAT YOU DO NOT FALL INTO DIVERSE TEMPTATIONS

James 2:14-26 King James Version (KJV)
What doth it profit, my brethren,
though a man say he hath faith, and have
not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and
destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart
in peace, be ye warmed and filled;
notwithstanding ye give them not those
things which are needful to the body; what
doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is
dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith,
and I have works: shew me thy faith
without thy works, and I will shew thee my
faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God;
thou doest well: the devils also believe,
and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that
faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified
by works, when he had offered Isaac his
son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his
works, and by works was faith made
perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which
saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
imputed unto him for righteousness: and
he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is
justified, and not by faith only.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot
justified by works, when she had received
the messengers, and had sent them out
another way?
For as the body without the spirit is
dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We as believers are taught faith with works. I suppose you have the ability to see into your future so can plan to avoid bad situations right? If this were possible then even the rich would not be feeling the heat from the world recession and people would not be sacked without reason and babies would not be born without deformities and nobody would die through accidents ....

afterall planning is all they needed right?

Thread is DOA.

Prayer, like the OP stated, is a deluded mixture of phobia, dimentia, schizophrenia, and,..and what's the other words ?

blackpanda:
[s][/s]


Last i checked, not a single one of the thieves has claimed innocence. Rather when caught redhanded, they shout "witchhunting". Well, u first have to be a "witch" before u can be hunted!

Unbelievable!! .

The tragedy of Nigerian education.

kettle84:
who are IPOB if I may ask you. the established one with leadership in the USA and London members in their land or the Nairaland members who are resident in Lagos . Generalization is bad and Nairaland is not Nigeria land.

Don't mind the m.oron.
The idiotic op must have serious insecurity issues, if , upon all the hunger and famine in the land, his only insecurity is Ipob.

Fake news

Allsouls:
Nigeria smart indeed

smart people been lead by the blind, deaf and dump and uneducated.
Smart people that doesn't believe in equal right and justice but support the kill of those standing on their right.
Smart people that their 5% politicians kill and suck them dry.
Smart people that only believe in what the want to hear even if they are se CEe it happen.
Smart people that was deceive some time and they are still deceived again.
Smart people that knows those kill and destroying the future of thier children and still sing praises for them.

So is Nigerians smart people or dumb people?.

In my opinion, Nigerians are the dumbest people in the world.

cola:
The Monkey Money Madness! (MMM)

Once upon a time in a village, a man appeared and announced that he would buy monkeys for N100 each. The villagers seeing that there were so many monkeys around, went out to the forest and started catching them.

The man bought thousands at N100 and as supply started to diminish, the villagers stopped their efforts. He further announced that he would now buy at N200. This renewed the efforts of the villagers and they started catching monkeys again. Soon the supply diminished and people started going back to their farms. The offer rate increased to N250 but the supply of monkeys became so little that it took much effort to even see a monkey, let alone catch one.

The man now announced that he would buy monkeys at N500! However, since he had to go to the city on some business, his assistant would now buy on his behalf.

In the absence of the man, his assistant told the villagers: ''Look at all these monkeys in the big cage that my OGA has bought from you, I will sell them to you at N350 and when my OGA returns from the city, you can sell it to him at N500''.

The villagers squeezed out all their HARD EARNED savings and bought all the monkeys. The most greedy ones among them even sold their lands to purchase many MONKEYS, hoping to make a huge profit without labor.

Then...

They never saw the man or his assistant. Only monkeys everywhere!

Welcome to MMM. The world of Monkeys!

Be wise

Monkey riches indeed.

Anyone would be preferable to Buhari.

drss2:
any policy dat will hasten d collapse of d zoo is welcome
by d time d dullard is done with nigeria, somalia will be a tourist heaven to nigerians.

It's simply amazing.
It's like this government was purposefully sent to collapse Nigeria right back to the dark ages.

A ZOO is not descriptive enough of the CHAOS unleashed by this bunch.
A zoo is actually organized around standard routines that the caged animals get used to and adapt to.

A jungle is a different story.

For those who get offended when Nigeria is described as a ZOO, an apology is in order.

A jungle is a much better word.

Truth234:
@Adesiji77 According to a CBN report, about $20 billion is sitting idle in various domiciliary accounts. This is almost $23 billion of the entire foreign reserve of the nation, the problem is, as long as you have such amount sitting idle, the Naira will continue to struggle while the parallel market thrive due to the gap in foreign exchange rates.

So, the CBN is struggling to get an autonomy to effect changes to individual/company holding of dollars, including repatriation. It is all to control activities of saboteurs and further inject liquidity into the market.

Though, there are certain things to be removed from their demands, but this move seems necessary if we really want to curtail the illiquidity issue.

Complete bullshyte.

Keep the blame game going.

No one sabotaging the economy, except for the bunch of Fossilized Dinosaurs whose economic worldview doesn't go beyond which grass to chew.
It is stuuuupid, confusing and flip flop policies that have been sabotaging the economy for the past 18 months.

What is CBN's business with how much money, Naira or dollars, that people keep in the banks for various personal and business reasons ?

Rather than looking lustfully at other people's money, the CBN and the government should be enacting simple policies that encourage people to invest in the economy.

By looking enviously at the foreign exchange holdings of the public, the CBN is sending very very negative signals all across the economy and the world,.a negative body language that is 100℅ sure to cause further anxiety among the financial services sector, the public, and foreign investors.

Now, tell me, who wants to keep or bring dollars into Nigeria if the CBN and the government has an envious eye on foreign exchange holdings ?

Don't you people ever get it ?
Which school of upside down economics do you people subscribe to ?

At this very time, the CBN and government should be doing everything possible, begging and cajoling both Nigerians and foreigners to bring dollars to Nigeria. Simple.

The economy needs more dollars, more free , unfettered flow of money and CAPITAL, not less of it, certainly not restrictions on the flow of foreign exchange.
Duhhhhhhhh!!

basilo102:
Draconian laws. once a dictator always a dictator. You can't defeat market forces

Only an idiot, a certified dunce from the far past, would ever consider force against the forces of the market.

The very very sad thing is that just about 2 yrs ago, a lot of us had thought that Nigeria had long transcended this goat and cow economic management system.

mrvitalis:
Ignorance of Nigerians are just baffling.. . So u guys will be happy if we continue to import cheap goods from outside??

The hardship u see today is because of two things, one there is no more enough oil money, two the banning of imported items we can produce

When u ban imported items, price increases and that leads to increase profit and this in turn drows in investors and then market forces forces the price down


Buhari means well for Nigeria and i am still waiting for anyone to prove me otherwise


And see ministers appointments had no effect as the perm sec became acting ministers

Exactly what imported items did this government ban ?

And pls elaborate how these banned imported items are the primary cause of inflation and hardship in the country.

Global Film Studios is now accepting scripts for 2016-2019 Editions Of The HUNGER Games, Nigeria edition.

If you are talented script writer, a keen observer or just a victim the Nigeria's current economic nuclear winter, kindly publish your script right here on this thread.

Points to keep in mind are the recent national headlines such as 7yr old burnt to death for allegedly stealing garri, People locking up their pots of soup with padlocks, parents bartering their children for a bag of rice, pastors now telling their flock that is quite ok to eat in their dreams, etc etc.

And oh, please don't forget to consider how Femi Adesina, the ASO Rock spokesman who feeds fat on the N2b feeding budget, famously MOCKED Nigerians who were complaining of hunger and hardships.

Bump

With 7 yr olds being burnt to death for stealing garri, Nigerians seriously need to begin to some sober reflections of their lives over the past 18months.

With the current economic Nuclear winter that Nigerians are currently dying if, it is always always important and necessary to be reminding ourselves how Buhari and his motley crew Nuked the Nigerian economy.

The more I see the desperation on the part of ebuka and his crew to discredit atheism( the lack of BELIEF in the Imaginary skydaddy), the more I am convinced that their form of Christianity has to a benign form of mental illness.

A measured dose of Pornography is healthy.

Masturbation is also healthy, in small or large doses.

Anymore questions ?

raphieMontella:
Kingebukasblog...please tell us how he can be an atheist...

---

Before the war hitler had always opposed atheism;oppressed,persecuted and crushed atheistic movements

Don't mind this m.oron.