₦airaland Forum

damerry: Yes brother. Are u?

yeah i am

fire and brimestone

Sal C: Please where can I get the book titled Meditation On Holy Obedience.

i know the book, and damarry has answered the question

from the internet
...For though during this mortal life, men, however holy and just, fall at times into
at least light and daily sins, which are also called venial, they do not on that
account cease to be just, for that petition of the just, forgive us our trespasses,
[62] is both humble and true; for which reason the just ought to feel
themselves the more obliged to walk in the way of justice, for being now
freed from sin and made servants of God,[63] they are able, living soberly, justly and godly,[64] to proceed onward through Jesus Christ, by whom they
have access unto this grace.[65]

Against the subtle wits of some also, who by pleasing speeches and good
words seduce the hearts of the innocent,[91] it must be maintained that the
grace of justification once received is lost not only by infidelity, whereby also
faith itself is lost, but also by every other mortal sin, though in this case faith is
not lost; thus defending the teaching of the divine law which excludes from
the kingdom of God not only unbelievers, but also the faithful [who are] fornicators, adulterers, effeminate, liars with mankind, thieves, covetous,
drunkards, railers, extortioners,[92] and all others who commit deadly sins,
from which with the help of divine grace they can refrain, and on account of
which they are cut off from the grace of Christ.

[quote author=Missy_B]Once saved, forever saved.
However, this doesn't mean you're immune to/from temptation. When you sin, you ought to remorsefully confess your sin and ask for forgiveness. You don't go through the whole process of accepting Christ again.
The salvation Christ procured for us is eternal. Your assignment as a born again is perseverance.[/quote]this is the error of calvinism, the bible doesnt teach once saved forever saved

alexleo: And what have you to say about this scripture? Hebrews 10:26.

[b]26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.[\b]

amen, this passage is so interesting, to enter a state of delibrate sin after recieving the truth mean there nolonger remains the sacrifice for sin and consequently the effects of that sacrifice i.e the imputed righteousness of christ. In other words you have lost your salvation.

elampiro: 10/ 5/2013

Cardinals deny that Bergoglio hesitated in accepting his election as Pope



Cardinals at the conclave deny that Bergoglio hesitated and left the Sistine Chapel to reflect before accepting his election”, as reported in the Scalfari interview



Gerard O’Connell
Rome

Cardinals have categorically denied that Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio hesitated in accepting his election as Pope, according to Father Thomas Rosica, who was assistant to the Director of the Holy See’s Press Office, Fr Federico Lombardi, for the Anglophone media during the Conclave and has continued informally in that role since.

In a briefing note to English speaking media, October 5, Rosica sought to respond to concerns expressed by journalists regarding “the ‘conflation’ of facts, details, and sequence of events” in Eugenio Scalfari “interview” with Pope Francis which was published in the Italian daily, La Repubblica, on October 1. He did so after contacting reliable sources.

He recalled that while Fr. Lombardi, “has attested to the overall ‘trustworthiness’ of the Scalfari interview”, questions continued to be raised by journalists about “some minor, imprecise details” in that interview, and in particular regarding Pope Francis’s “hesitation in accepting the election to the papacy” and his “so-called ‘mystical experience’, on the night of his election to the Papacy, March 13, 2013.

Rosica noted that Eugenio Scalfari, 89, “did not tape his interview with Pope Francis, nor did he take notes, so the text was an after-the-fact reconstruction.” He pointed out that “such texts run the risk of either missing some key details or conflating various moments or events recounted during the oral interview.” He acknowledged, however, that Scalfari “has stated that he showed the text to Francis for his approval” but, he said, “it’s not clear how closely the Pope read it.”

In any case, Rosica said, “Cardinals who witnessed the events have categorically stated that the newly elected Pope never left the Sistine chapel for a period of reflection before finally accepting the papacy other than his entering the “Room of tears” for vesting. There was never any indication of hesitation, a need for serious reflection on the election that had taken place, or rethinking what had befallen him! ”

It is significant that Rosica speaks of “cardinals” in the plural, meaning more than one had been consulted. In a separate report also published on October 5 on the US Catholic weekly, the National Catholic Reporter, John L. Allen reports that Cardinal Timothy Dolan, in an interview, also denied the story that Cardinal Bergoglio hesitated in accepting his election as Pope. Dolan said Francis accepted immediately and then left the Sistine Chapel to vest in ‘the room of tears’

As for the so-called “mystical moment” of Pope Francis which Scalfari presents in the interview, Father Rosica believes “this is most probably referring to the moment of prayer in the Pauline Chapel.”

He revealed how “that moment is clearly explained in an exclusive interview” given by Monsignor Dario Viganò, the Director of the Vatican Television Centre, to Canada’s ‘Salt and Light TV’ in June 2013. The interview will be broadcast in Canada this Sunday evening, October 6, and in it Mgr. Vigano “tells what transpired in the Pauline Chapel as Pope Francis prayed before walking with his brother Cardinals to the loggia for his first appearance to the world.”

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-francis-francisco-28373/

what does this prove?

[quote author=elampiro]You are not getting the point.

Go and read the first interview very well and understand. The two separate interview the Pope has mentioned atheist.

No one has said the Pope should use ropes to tie and atheist to worship in a church compulsorily. Now one has said the Pope should imprison or annihilate a nation for following their conscience in joining another religion.[\quote]

have you been interveiwed before? In interveiw you answer the question you are asked, you don't fly off and answer another thing. Pope francis was asked if God will forgive an atheist, he answered that divine mercy is infine and God will grant forgiveness to all who come to him with a sincere and contrite(repentant) heart. Tell me if he didn't answer the question correctly, is that not catholic teaching?

What everyone is saying is that Pope Francis should preach Jesus to them, and not telling atheist that they are fine without Jesus if they follow their conscience or do good.[\b][\quote]
the pope never said the bolded!


[quote]You guys have already fallen to the discretion. [b]"show mercy, don't preach to them. They don't have to be told about Jesus, let them just do good."[\b][\quote]
the pope never said the bolded.

[quote]You guys marvel me. Have you lost your christian responsibilities and commitments due to antigospel remarks? Jesus will ask us on the last day how many unbelievers we were able to convert. So the harvest should be abandoned?

God will also ask you about how you critisize the pope.

elampiro: It looks like you are a priest?

forgive me, but i won't answer that question. I prefer to be anonymous online so i'll neither deny or affirm.
Peace

FOLYKAZE: which god?

the gods in ifa, you seem to be frantically trying to deny the the orishas are gods not just energy.

Candour: This is one issue i'm not 100% clear about. see the verse below

Eph 1:13
'In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,'

What can unseal someone God has sealed with his Holy Spirit? I am an advocate of Grace is not License and i make no apologies about that. But then, what about sins you do not even know you commit? I have no examples to give but are we sure all acts of unrighteousness were written down for us?

Also the issue of Demas that alexleo brought up gives me some thought, but it said Demas went away from Paul, Did that verse tell us he left the faith? Does leaving Paul translate to leaving the faith?

would really like to hear more on this issue

that verse didn't say you can't lose your salvation, it only says you have been sealed with the holyspirit, your seal, isn't a material thing, it is the holyspirit himself and as scripture say we can grieve the spirit and he may depart from us, we may lose that seal and along with it our salvation.

okeyxyz: @OP using "backhand" tactics to bash Jehovah's Witness. The development of the "Jehovah" name was a scholastic venture, not a doctrinal one. Jehovah is derived from nomenclature, not from a system of doctrines. It doesn't matter matter if this name was produced by an atheist, a moslem, Buddhist or Christian, it is still a scholatic product. It's like saying a computer should form part of christian/islamic doctrine because a christian/moslem invented the computer, this doesn't make sense.

but it isn't the name of God in any language

that is good

elampiro: [b]]Pope Francis has not taught in line with CCC and tradition.

The CCC never said people should not constantly preach against homosexuality, abortion and contraceptives. How can anyone say preaching is too much?

The CCC never said we should tell that pagans are fine without Jesus.

The CCC never said this: "It is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person (unbelievers)"- Pope Francis.

The CCC never said we should go to confession and not ask of forgiveness of our sins but to hand over our sins to Jesus while promising Him to sin again. This statement by Pope Francis is just directly opposite to the confession fomular, act of contrition and the I confess to 'Almighty God'. The confession is through our most grievous fault and a promise never to sin again.

The CCC did not rubbish the previous Popes and members of the curia.


I have given up on you people for your notorious ways of defending the obvious anticatholic and antichristian teachings of Pope Francis. You people are used to "this is what the Pope really said". Helping the Pope to be Pope. You people love the Pope more than the Church and the gospel of Jesus. I will rather defend the gospel of Jesus than follow lies. [/b]

my traditional latin mass tomorrow starts by 8am.
Goodnite

Kaycee7: Let me get this straight. The Messiah was brought into this world by the beast? Are you sure you're sane?

hehehe

folykage it seem the gods scare you and you are trying to run away from them.

damarry, are you a devotee of the precious blood?

it is a pity francis is dropping so many liturgical vestments.

following...

elampiro: Bergoglio direct confrontation with Benedict on the Old Latin mass was an act of disobedience. That is what I referred to.

where is the confrontation

elampiro: Why did he not invite to Jesus Christ?

He said atheist who do good are saved. Then he said they should follow their conscience.

Why is he not preaching Jesus to them?

besides you cannot convict someone of heresy because he didn't meet your expectation you can only accuse of heresy when he denys a revealed truth

macof: a pastor who is also a babalawo

i think he studied it, he can explain the process and give some incantations. I dont think he is a babalawo

elampiro: That is CCC, not Canon law. Canon law and the doctors of the church does not hold that belief. Refer to the article and video I posted earlier.

So are you saying when the Pope teaches antigospel I should obey him?

so you are saying that the ccc is not in line with canon law and the doctors of the church?
This is what pope john paul says in the apostolic constitution 'fidei depositum'

'the ccc which i approved june 25th last and the publication of which i today order [b]by virtue of my apostolic authority is a state ment of the Church's faith and of catholic doctrine attested to or illumined by Sacred scripture, the Apostolic tradition and the church's magisterium. I declear it to be a sure norm of teachig the faith'[\b]
between you and pope john paul who is correct?

Correction i never said you should follow an heretic. My point is that thus far pope francis has been teaching in line with the church

elampiro: [b]The conscience is already there, being an atheist already means you have not used your conscience correctly to seek the truth. An atheist has already formed a dead conscience and sees- 'nothing wrong with use of contraceptives' 'nothing wrong with abortion' 'nothing wrong with homosexuality' 'nothing wrong with sex outside marriage' 'believes it is good to retaliate' 'believes it is good to kill your enemy'. So should an atheist follow his conscience, what he sees to be good will not be influenced by the commandments of God.

The bible said we should seek God first. And the bible said no man can see the Father except through Jesus. The bible said we should go yee and baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

My loyalty is first to Jesus, then to His world in the bible and to the tradition of the Church. Any head of church who teaches contrary to these I have mentioned is not worthy of my loyalty.


****** You have also implied that should the Pope teaches errors everyone is bind by church rules to follow him even if the Pope denies Jesus. And that not even the cardinals can call him to order or remove him. Can we now say that Martin Luther was justified to have left the church? Remember we had bad Popes in the past.

Always weigh the implication of your comments. So the Pope should be a dictator?

The changes that are coming, when they come and should the divinity of Jesus be denied, I will do everything to remove everyone that comes my way from the back of Bergoglio. The scripture came before the Church. Jesus is the reason there is a church, and not any Pope [/b]

the teachings of the church says everyman must be allowed to follow his conscience. Do you agree or disagree? Simple question

elampiro: That is CCC, not Canon law. Canon law and the doctors of the church does not hold that belief. Refer to the article and video I posted earlier.

So are you saying when the Pope teaches antigospel I should obey him?

both canon law and doctors of th church hold that belief. The ccc is a guide for all catholics

ccc 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate
doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him." [Code of
Canon Law c.751]

canon law
c. 1364 1. With due regard for can. 194, part 1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a
heretic or a schismatic incurs automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication
and if a cleric, he can also be punished by the penalties mentioned in can.
1336, part 1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.
2. If long lasting contumacy or the seriousness of scandal warrants it, other
penalties can be added including dismissal from the clerical state. This canon is saying that once a person willingly repudiates Christ, embraces
a heresy, knowing it to be contrary to divine and Catholic faith, or refuses
submission to the Roman Pontiff (or communion with the members of the
Church subject to him), by virtue of the law itself they are automatically
excommunicated. No ecclesiastical act is necessary and no public notice.

elampiro: Why did he not invite to Jesus Christ?

He said atheist who do good are saved. Then he said they should follow their conscience.

Why is he not preaching Jesus to them?

are you kidding me? He invited every atheist to beleif in God in seem you didn't read the full letter.

I put it to you that pope francis never said 'atheist who do good are saved'

if you wish ti discuss the act of divining, then i advise you invite pastor aio. He knows alot about that aspect

InesQor: Maferefun Olodumare
Oyigiyigi (The steadfast, unmovable, great and mighty one)
Oba ti gbobo oba nt’owo re gb’ase (The king from whom all kings take directives)
Olorun Agbalagba (The ancient of days)
Adagba ma paaro oye (Unchanging God)
Okan titi aye ainipekun (The same forever)
Onibuore (The benevolent one, whose barns are full of blessing)
Atogbojule (Dependable God)
Oludariji (The forgiving one)
Olutusile (God of freedom)

Maferefun loosely means "in the praise of", and is used when one offers praises, adoration (or even adulation) to a deity in the Yoruba religion. In the above, I have offered praise to Olodumare, the creator. Olodumare is one of the manifestations or expressions of the SUPREME GOD. The other two manifestations are Olorun (God of the heavens) and Olofin (God who connects heaven and earth, and who permeates all, and is all and is in all.)

interesting. Thisis the first time i'm hearing that olorun has 3 minifestations.

macof: you are following. Good

Ifa is the system of divination, but the spirit behind it is Orunmila, it is all Orunmila's knowledge that is stated in the odu-ifa. it's not wrong to call ifa an orisa because Orunmila is Ifa, without Orunmila there won't be Ifa. Ifa exist because Orunmila exist(and would always exist). It is true that Orunmila and his initiates use it to access supernatural knowledge but It is all Orunmila's knowledge. And as the closest and most loved orisa by Olodumare, he knows the will of Olodumare, and Ifa is the pure word of Olodumare as interpreted by Orunmila.

beautiful, well put and understood

can anyone show me a place in the speech where pope francis said ''you don't need to believe in God to go to heaven?

i can't find my copy of code of canon law so i,ll make use of the CCC.

[b]1782 man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. ''he must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters''
1800 a human being must alway follow the certain judgement of his conscience[\b]

is this not exactly what the pope told the atheist? Is this not the true teachings of the catholic church?
Why then are you saying the popes word is heresy? Or do you reject the teaching of the church as written in the cathechism?