₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
Well first and foremost let me apologize for my unpleasant words - I was irritated that you called me a liar without justification - and that irritation was worse because of the "I know you as a spiritual guy" line - I truly dislike that sort of subtle blackmail, just the way I hate it when people, in any debate, say to me - "and you are a lawyer, I am disappointed in your argument" - please dont see me as a lawyer, dont see me as spiritual, dont tag me as anything in order to make a statement, just see me as a fellow human you are chatting with - and a flawed one at that.

There is no reason for me to lie, I dont have a dog in this race. I have previously asked people to vote Obi because the other two are just same ol, same ol. But to be frank right now, I dont have a dog in the race. I am completely neutral at this point.

Nonetheless accept my apologies. I don't like speaking like that.

PS: Audi Alteram Partem (This is a Latin saying. It means "Hear the other side." - - - Don't take the words of Dino to the bank. Compare with the words of those who dispute what is said before concluding).



All this is true. I do not deny it. I am not making excuses for INEC. I just know my country too well to expect a tech based system to work smoothly or even anywhere near smoothly in this blighted space. We can't get anything right. This is a country that produces crude oil and natural gas and lacks power. For decades, lacks power. Dwell on that for a minute. Its a contradiction. Hilary Clinton could not understand it when she visited. She wondered how that is possible. Same way, we produce crude and import petrol, and then subsidize it. As Nigerians, we know the truth. The fact that our refineries don't work is deliberate. It is sabotage. It is corrupt capitalism with state collusion at its worst. It is also a measure of negligence, carelessness, recklessness, callousness and incompetence. This is the Nigeria we know very well. Anyone who then imagined BVAS and IREV would be smooth sailing was just living in la la land.

Believe you me, I agree that this election is a nasty one which has been terribly mismanaged. My question is what to do about it? Would you toe the path Obasanjo suggests and cancel the elections? Believe me sir, that would be dangerous and probably do more harm than good. Would you suspend collation until all results are uploaded? If that takes the next three days, do you trust what will transpire in that period? I trust you know that the more time and space you create, the more pranks and games will be played by the interested parties. Any such suspension will be dangerous.

As much as you may mistrust the judiciary, it remains the only reasonable recourse. At least there is much evidence available. Let it be gathered and let those who feel hard done by marshall their case very well and approach the three available courts (The Judiciary, the Court of Public Opinion and the Court of Life. ).

What do you say about Mahmood Yakubu's assurance to the political parties in November 2022 that the results will be uploaded in real time on Election day


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oy5L06zgus

And then his volte-face yesterday when Dino asked him to explain why the results were not posted as promised before he starts announcing the results?

DeepSight:
I find this silly, pathetic and shameful. I have always known you to be rational and unsentimental. That you accuse me of lying is simply beneath you and I am more than disappointed. I heard what I wrote on both Arise and Channels.



Sickeningly, what you attached does not in any way show what I wrote to be any sort of lie - if anything, it affirms it. It says there that "Presidential Election Forms started to be uploaded by 10 pm on Election day" - which was Saturday - whilst I said that as of early today - "early in the day" up to 50k results had been uploaded. In case you are drunk, today is 48 hours (two whole days) AFTER the election day. So how, and where did I tell a lie?

Bear in mind that mine was a reaction to yours stating that you expected a certain amount of uploads by this morning.

You wrote:



Whereas your EU Report stated that uploads started two days ago
So the Report actually shows YOU to be wrong!


You'd better go sleep off whatever narcotic you are on today.

As I said I hold you in high esteem, and so I don't want a verbal spat. Yes I was wrong in asserting that nothing had been uploaded as I was relying on what Dino Melaye said in his protest. But even at that I was appalled and irritated by you trying to excuse INEC by saying;

DeepSight:
In a nation with epileptic power, epileptic internet, epileptic bank transaction alerts, etc, it would be disingenuous of anyone to claim that they would expect the tech behind BVAS and IREV to have been smooth sailing. If anything, as Nigerians, we well expect the contrary.

I honestly do not expect such excuse from you. This is about the sixth general election in this dispensation. The same problems and excuse had been given in each previous election cycle. Nigerians demanded and fought for electronic voting (at least electronic accreditation) to forestall previous problems of where INEC officials just allocate figures. It was experimented during the 2019 elections whereby Atiku alleged that the figures on the server was different from the one accredited by INEC. INEC alleged that they did not upload the results on any server. Meanwhile the supreme court ruled that electronic voting/accreditation is not in the constitution and so cannot render the elections invalid.
I am giving you this background to let you know why Nigerians were passionate about BVAS and IReV. It was even made mandatory in the 2022 election law and guidelines.
Now INEC made promises to the political parties and Nigerians that they would use BVAS and IReV in subsequent elections and indeed used it in all off season elections since. Because of that it gave some credibility to the elections and it was less acrimonious.

These issues you raised about epileptic power supply and scale was equally raised by political parties and knowledgeable Nigerians. INEC assured everyone that they have everything covered, that even if there was no network at the time of election, the uploaded results would be on the machines and would upload automatically once network is available. About scale and bandwidth, INEC assured everyone that they have everything covered. Only for the elections to take place and less than 30% was uploaded a full two days after elections. And they resorted to going back to use the discredited manual accreditation and result sheets. Now after INEC returns a winner the chairman would just resort to the usual "if you are not satisfied, go to court". Meanwhile the supreme court had already ruled that electronic voting/accreditation cannot invalidate an election. Is that not INEC taking Nigerians for granted?

With your excuse of " In a nation with epileptic power, epileptic internet, epileptic bank transaction alerts. . .", the ruling government would make sure these things don't work in order to use this excuse to hold on to power perpetually. Politicians (all over the world) are ready to do anything to hold unto power, including impoverishing its people or even war. We should demand the right things be done - no excuses.

Besides, what did INEC do with the over 300 billion it said it used to conduct the elections? They did not buy vehicles, they did not provide accommodation or even logistics for their staffs - these were provided by state governments. Numerous international bodies gave donations to aid the smooth conduct of the elections. So how much was spent in each of the 774 local government areas that they can't buy power banks and Internet service for the machines?

jelel6:
I said yesterday that I was surprised Rivers would vote for Tinubu/APC to any substantial level. They never liked APC. One would expect Obi and PDP to take majority of the votes.

It's hard to explain this result from Rivers but there have been lots of strange results this election. With the way the election has been going, APC don't need to rig Rivers to win overall. Why risk soiling a largely free and fair elections with unnecessary rigging?

It's stupidity on the part of wike. He could get away with such blatant rigging with PDP as PDP is quite popular in Rivers State,but APC winning Rivers is an abomination. He should have just given APC the required 25% if he was wise. Rivers will mar the whole elections if care is not taken. People are beginning to protest and the results have not yet been announced. If Tinubu is announced as winner, there will be riots a over Rivers State.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVbJCQijDXw&feature=shares

DeepSight:
Its not true that nothing was uploaded. Early in the day, about fifty thousand of the 170k plus polling units had been uploaded, and thats roughly the sort of thing one would expect in Naija where nothing works.

I am still shocked you are making excuses and even ready to lie for INECs shoddy organisation of the elections? Why? I have always known you to be an upright and spiritual guy.

Here is the EU observer missions preliminary report below.

Oh wait. It is Kwankwaso that is winning Kano despite being an enemy of the sitting APC Governor!

Again, what are you saying

4. In the South East where Obi is from, Obi is winning by 90%

In the South West where Tinubu is from, Obi has won Lagos, Atiku took Osun. But when Tinubu takes Ekiti, it is rigging.

What is wrong with you guys?

I have explained why Obi can take Lagos and Atiku can take Osun. Ekiti is an APC state, so the rigging advantage lies with APC.

I don't understand the political dynamics of Kano, but it seems Kwakwanso seem to be a better rigger than the sitting governor. Maybe he has better rigging structure.

BVAS and IReV would have help in giving legitimacy to the victories.

DeepSight:
These are not excuses. You can remain disappointed if truly you have constant power and seamless internet wherever you live and you are also sure that such applies nationwide. Please lets not kid ourselves. The tech was always going to be problematic in this blighted country. This is not to say that they have not played games with it. They probably have, as with all things in this corrupt country. But it would be really crazy for anyone to sit down and poker faced, claim that such tech was not bound to run into hitches in this country where nothing works.

There are advanced countries that still handle their elections by manual counting of votes (including the USA) and they all have reasons for this, aside from tech hitches, the truth is that such systems can also be hacked.

In a country such as ours, where nothing works, it only makes sense to anticipate that and take the next best steps.
Tell me, as Chair of INEC, lets assume you run into a situation where you have tech problems. What call will you make - suspend collation? Do you know how mortally dangerous that would be for this country?

What is key is that the announced results tally with the Polling Unit Results eventually and that is open to challenge.
Otherwise, what do you suggest?

Cancel the election?

PS Edit: Mind You, I agree the election has been horrible.

I am a highly tech guy. Which kind of technical problems can affect the whole BVAS and IReV servers? Up till this morning nothing had been uploaded. In a state like Lagos that has 100% internet coverage, we expect at least 50% of the results to have been uploaded by this morning. Remember, these problems did not persists when elections were held in semi rural Osun State, these problems did not persists when elections was held in Anambra.

DeepSight:
I still dont think you are saying anything about the key points he has raised. I dont think its sufficient to dismiss them just with a wave of the hand.

To be clear, these are the key points for me -


2. So Obi can win Lagos, it is not rigging. But Amoda Ogunlere cannot win Osun that you said he is from, it is rigging.

Oh wait. Tinubu did not even win Osun. Atiku did. So what are you saying please? You thought Obi will win Osun??

As I said it is impossible to brazenly rig Lagos by altering figures like Rivers. Lagos is a highly urbanized state. Only vote buying, intimidation and suppression of voters can work. If BVAS is actually used, you will see that the margin of victory is even much wider than reported.

Osun state is governed at the moment by PDP, so if anything else, PDP is more in a position to rig than APC. BVAS would have shown how much rigging PDP did.

DeepSight:
In a nation with epileptic power, epileptic internet, epileptic bank transaction alerts, etc, it would be disingenuous of anyone to claim that they would expect the tech behind BVAS and IREV to have been smooth sailing. If anything, as Nigerians, we well expect the contrary.

I am highly disappointed you are making such excuses for INEC in the 21st century and after INEC spending hundreds of billions of naira on the elections. Have you never heard of power banks, so what exactly did INEC spend the hundreds of billions on?

DeepSight:
I dont think you directly addressed the points he raised and they dont look like excuses to me, they look like logical points.

They are not. South West is not critical to victory in presidential elections, because that is the region rigging is minimal. The critical states for presidential elections are Kano, Kaduna, Rivers and sometimes Delta, Bayelsa and akwaibom. They provide the bulk of the votes, while the others make up for the required 25%. You can never win 70% votes in the south west.

DeWorlex45:
This is Epic.

There is nothing epic about it. He failed to address why INEC refused to use BVAS and IReV, which Nigerians had invested a lot of trust, emotions and money on.

Nigerians historically have a high degree of distrust for the ruling party and INEC.
Simply uploading the results from the wards as contained in the electoral act would have saved all these excuses and conjectures.

DeepSight:
Wow. I must say, your reasoning is quite strong, even if I don't like BAT.
@ Wirinet, perhaps you should see this.

The guy was just giving excuses without addressing the real issues at stake. I have been involved in an election for Senate before, I was campaign coordinator for a candidate and also I have uncles and aunties who are deep into Delta state politics, so I know how rigging is carried out. First and foremost rigging is minimal in the South West (except during Iwu's time) and even in the South West rigging is carried out mainly in rural and semi urban areas. What happens in the South West is vote buying. Tinubu's main strategy in holding Lagos and South West is vote buying, intimidation and outright voter suppression by scaring away voters. This time it didn't work as well as before because the naira redesign policy and EFCC reduced vote buying. Also violence and voter intimidation was reduced. Without violence and voter intimidation Tinubu would have lost by a wider margin.

Remember Lagos had always voted against expectations, NRC in 1992, AD in 2003 against mainstream PDP in the South West. It wont be a surprise if Labour wins Lagos next week.

Now enter the Niger Delta and South East, those have always been the epicenter of election rigging in Nigerian. When I was campaign coordinator, election results was simply allocated to us. We were asked to come to the local government headquarter in koko (Delta) to negotiate with the electoral officer. We could not make it because our agent was injured. So we were allocated about 5,000 votes. There had really never been a valid election in the NigerDelta states. Wike is a master rigger and had always rigged elections for PDP. He was the one that helped Amaechi rig in 2007, help Jonathan rig massively in 2011 and rigged himself in as governor.

Have to go now.

babaolofin:
You are lying. June 12 that Arthur Nzeribe condemned. Uche Chukwumerije bastardized June 12 as Minister of Information. Walter Offornagoro as Information Minister destroyed the June 12 struggle. Weekly traditional rulers from South East paid Abacha visit in solidarity against June 12.

The rating of June 12 as the best election was by June 12 group. Of recent, when Buhari recognized Abiola as the winner, an IBO man, chairman of Vanguard Editorial Board called yorubas sophisticated m o n r o o n.

This time around, june 12 can never never be repeated.

Yes lots of people betrayed Abiola in the actualization of the June 12 mandate due to bribery and political appointments by Abacha. But .. no one disputed the fairness and freeness of the election itself. The issue was never about the freeness of the elections. IBB excuse were alleged violations before the elections and the court case instituted by Nzeribe.

The option A4 model adopted did not leave room for doubts and dispute. People queued behind their preferred candidate and it was counted and recorded in front of everyone.

Ayodeoba:
but Lagos was not rigged right?

Whether it was rigged or not, INEC should upload the BVAS and IReV. Lagos has not been declared by INEC.

babaolofin:
They are wasting their time.

June 12, 1993 cannot be repeated. It can never never be repeated.

Hope 93 was annulled, Renewed Hope 23 can never be annulled.

Abiola paid the price with his life for a time like this.

June 12 was adjudged the freest and fairest election in the history of Nigeria, while Hope 23 is being adjudged the worst election in Nigeria's history. Spot the difference.

No one disputed hope 93, not even the opposition party, international observers or the military. Everyone is disputing Hope 23.

DeepSight:
Just how many people can Wike singularly compel? Has it occurred to you that the generality of Rivers people might actually be disenchanted with Atiku over the choice of Okowa? Has it occurred to you that many Rivers people may actually support the stance of Wike - however uncouth and barbaric he indeed is?

There is no evidence of that. Under the circumstances you stated, rivers should have gone to Obi, mainly because of the massive igbo population in rivers. I am from the Nigeria delta and I understand political sentiments of the nigerdelta. The Nigeria delta is a PDP block. There is very little APC structure from delta to Rivers to akwaibom. Yes most people are angry at PDP for fielding Atiku and Okowa, but that would make them embrace APC, much less Tinubu. Obi would have been the alternative choice.
Most of my relatives are politically active in Delta.

seborrhic:
Like play,like play,this will soon get out of hand.

APC was prepared for the fall out of their rigging. That's why the deployed thousands of military men on the streets and thats why they stopped children going to school till further notice. The next few days is expected to be wild. It might surpass ENDSARS.

Kam2021:
Make una calm down. I'm not pro APC but I think Tinubu will perform better than Buhari in all areas.If he emerges the winner NOTHING will happen to WIKE.All the candidates are good and have done well.My only problem with him and his wife,is the lack of proper way to talk to people and agberoish politics, aside that,he will work.
Make una forgive WIKE,I still believe he weighed the benefits of a Tinubu presidency. Let peace reign.

He is desperate like Amaechi was in 2015. An Atiku presidency will send Wike on a permanent exile. So he is fighting for his life.

onuman:
APC win in Obigbo local government area of all areas in Rivers state?
Wike is ridiculous in his election rigging movement in Rivers state.

Wike is so brazen in his election rigging. He should have given Tinubu 40%, but he damned all consequences and is giving Tinubu over 60%.

Helpfromabove1:
It good to see that obident can cry like a baby after the load of online abuse

Even soludo was telling them the true but all they can do is to abuse him

Anyway Peter obi thank you for giving tinubu the victory

Was it not BVAS and IReV that gave Soludo victory and legitimacy? Did anyone challenge Soludo's victory? Why can't you guys demand the same for your principal?
If BVAS and IReV showed Tinubu won, everyone will be against Labour if the challenge the results.

Helpfromabove1:
Obi supporter should take time to study the electoral act first

The margin of losing from state results is wild that are not getting the 25 percent in about 10 state already and with 2 more they will be officially out

And for the bvas issue I raised it’s the duty of the court to decide and not inec

We are talking about the integrity of the system. We are tired of the party in power rigging the elections and then dare everyone else to go to court. Where the rigger will be installed in power and then given state resources to bribe his way through the courts.
Its the same court that made the person who came forth governor of a state. The same court said non serialisation of voters sheet is valid in an election, that serialisation is not necessary for the election to be valid. And that is the court you want Nigerians to trust.

BVAS and IReV was supposed to eliminate all these shenanigans, but it seems you guys want to continue performing the same tricks over and over against no minding what Nigerians think.

CoronaVirusRelo:
Above 25% is a plus!

We move!

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

Tinubu can't get 10% in rivers. Even Buhari who had better standing than Tinubu in Rivers only got about 30% in rivers in 2019.

Helpfromabove1:
The law is clear if you don’t agree with the results

GO TO COURT

THE TRIBUNAL WILL BE OPEN SOON

CHIEF JUSTICE ARINWOOLA is waiting for the petition


Even Labour Party that lost by 6pm on Saturday is making noise

Will you keep quiet

How do you know any party was winning or losing by 6pm when INEC refused to show evidence of results as stipulated in the electoral act 2022, which is uploading of BVAS and IReV? Filling out results sheets by RECs and announcing it on live TV is not an acceptable proof of result.

OSUN elections was upturned favour of APC by the Appeal court because of BVAS, so why should the INEC chairman commence the announcement of result without BVAS?

DeepSight:
Such an approach can create a stalemate and thus a constitutional crisis because there is almost no end to the possibility of dragging things out in court. Even where a matter is decided in the Supreme Court, if what you suggest became the rule, politicians will deploy endless proxies to file endless new suits and thus frustrate any inauguration.

But we need a way to address the Ngige phenomenon, whereby a governor (or president) will be sworn in despite rigged elections, only for the courts to overturn the elections 2 years later, and then a new governor is sworn in for a new fresh 4 year term. Now the situation becomes "what happened to the imposter's term? Were the laws and executive orders made by the imposter governor valid or invalid? If someone takes such a case to court, it will be very dicey.
Another problem is that if we continue like this for the next 100 years, the cummutive effects of such scenario will distrust the whole electoral process. Already about 5 or 6 states have elections in unusual times.

I believe we can make a law that allows for all outstanding court cases to be dispensed with before swearing in. Either we expedite election cases or have enough time to litigate election issues.

I sure this is the main reason the supreme court always gives unreasonable judgements when it comes to presidential elections in Nigeria. Because, they are trying to avoid a constitutional crisis. Eg, the 12 2/3 issue in 1979 and the no serialised ballot papers in 2007.

famology:
Go to court
Simple! That's the place to argue your case.

That's the strategy that has brought us to this impasse. This is the reason why very unpopular candidates are imposed on the populace, and they perform poorly in governance.

If a president (or governor) is not allowed be sworn in until all outstanding issues is decided in court? You guys will not just write figures and then retorts to your usual rhetoric of "go to court".

juman:
I was expecting noises and barking from pdp dogs, positive noises if they were winning.
But this negative barking show pdp cannot win.

It's not about winning or losing but the process. Are you not interested in knowing why BVAS and IReV was not deployed in the elections.

famology:
After losing in your state, u go dey mk noise for Abuja

We are talking apple, you are talking pineapple. The issue is not about who lost what state but about the non use of BVAS and IReV.

Taba21:
APC members acted professional through all this period of counting,no noise from Tinubu, shettima or keyamo.

How are they acting professional when they did not ask questions on why the much celebrated BVAS and IReV was not used. Why spend billions of naira on BVAS and IReV and then not use it?

Is that not against the electoral act 2022?

bennybuhari:
According to him, Tinubu has always won the election for APC in Lagos through bribery, corruption and use of thugs.

"Obi's victory in Lagos in the presidential election is the wish of the people. Tinubu has always won in Lagos by thuggery, bribery and corruption. But the youths are awake now".

That's why they are attacking the Igbos so as to make it look like it is a Yoruba affair".


https://independent.ng/nigeriadecides2023-lps-victory-tinubu-had-always-won-in-lagos-through-thuggery-bribery-ayo-adebanjo/

I have always said it that Tinubu can never win a free and fair election. He relies on vote buying, intimidation, violence and rigging to keep Lagos in his stranglehold. Tinubu is popular with politicians, business elites, cultists and agberos, but unpopular with the ordinary citizens who endures all kinds of extortion from the state government and agberos.

FreeStuffsNG:
It is time DSS arrest all these hack writers and jesters like Okon etc before they use their partisan bitter loss to taint the integrity of our transparent and credible election.

They want to do the Trump format and DSS should not be as lethargic and irresponsible like FBI that is now investigating insurrection caused by a bitter loser.

Which credible elections. This is the worst election in terms of organisation in the history of Nigeria if not Africa. Let's wait for the report of both local and international observers. I am sure they will all agree with me that this election is anything but credible. There is evidence of massive voter suppression, voter intimidation and outright manipulation of figures, all with the connivance of INEC.

DeusXmachina:
Nigeria still has issues of female genital mutilation to this day and a practice of breast ironing still exists in a few parts.

But I guess transgender surgery is the bigger boogie man.

Add to that serious and massive issue of paedophilia (child rape and marriage). The amount of unreported child rape in Nigeria is alarming. LBTGQ and transgender suggest is the most least (pardon my English) of our problems.

Lunja:
Homo, the western collapse continues

GAYbriel, the world shall be free at last.

I am a bit curious, but why are you guys so obsessed with homosexuality and sex in general? You guys (so called conservatives) cannot say or write three sentences without talking about sex.