tonychristopher:
you said that you keep it in chest and that is the confusing ...it boils down to the question do i say am igbo or am i confused in man made Niger Delta nomenclature ...this i think you should purge yourself


That is the meaning of my term "confused" but you can still keep it in heart...now we are talking ..but anything Igbo i can see your always lurking around their threads yet no stand..dearie try make one

This makes zero sense. I know who I am, and I'm not confused about that.

On Nairaland I prefer not to disclose my ethnicity for one simple reason: I do not want my comments and contributions to be unfairly (mis)interpreted in the light of my ethnicity, seeing as NL is very charged ethnically.

How that qualifies as 'confused' is something you will still have to explain further.

BTW, I do not have to take a stand; this isn't a war. And I don't only comment on Igbo-related threads. I'm there on Yoruba threads...even Somali threads as well.

tonychristopher:
I REFFERED YOU TO THE BEST PERSON THAT WOULD ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS..BIKO, JUO NNE GI OGA ASA GI WHO IS IGBO MAYBE YOU ASK YOUR FATHER IF YOU FEEL THAT I AM NOT IN POSITION TO DEFINE WHO IS AN IGBO

DALU

Who said you are not in a position to define who is Igbo? My question was why defining and redefining Igbo is what two-third of your comments on NL are about. Almost as if you feel Igbo nationhood is under threat and you have to save it by flooding NL with Igbo this, Igbo that comments/posts.

Is the Igbo nation under threat?

And why do you keep spicing your replies with Igbo words? Do you always assume strangers understand your language?

tonychristopher:
Juo Nne gi biko

Typical.

tonychristopher:
CALL IT BACK GROUND RESEARCH SO THAT I CAN KNOW THE MENTAL STATE OF WHOM I AM TALKING WITH AND I HAVE NOTED IT SO


KA ODI....

This doesn't explain what you meant by 'confused' though.

tonychristopher:
I said it...confused one......

LMAO! He actually went snooping on my previous posts.

Explain what you mean when you said 'confused'... if you don't mind.

tonychristopher:
We igbos. not you stranger..wanna be

Wannabe? Wanna be WHAT?

Answer this question truthfully, OP:

Would you let your daughter(s) go through circumcision?

tonychristopher:
DO WE KNOW YOU?

Who is 'WE'?

victor1464:
richard mofe damijo is a yoruba man not itsekiri because yoruba and itsekir are the same ethnic group. His names sounds so yorubaish...no doubt

I...I...can't make sense of what you are trying to say here.


Based on the little sense I can make out if this warped comment, maybe you shouldn't complain at all when anyone says Ukwuani and Igbo are the same ethnic group, and that you are an Igbo man.

You have a hard-on for this 'who is Igbotic, who isn't Igbotic' stuff, don't you? That's all you ever talk about.

emmysoftyou:
the present amanyanabo of opobo.is he the grandson of jaja the igboman?
Or things change...

No, he isn't the grandson. He is farther down the line than that. But this your question though, considering the comment you quoted to ask it, what do you think direct descendant means?

Someone with half a brain would have figured out in seconds by using the bloody Internet that Curacao and Carriacou are two different frigging places! And that Carriacou was not a Dutch colony. But not Kwametut. Too dumb for that.

Carriacou1985, when you eventually return to this thread, try, try, not to engage this guy 'criswell'. He is a sick, lonely, retarded attention-seeking troll. Try to communicate with him and risk losing some brain cells. Seriously.

9jacrip:


Makes sense.
Your posts on Yoruba topics and depth of arguments made me conclude.
Regardless, I'm still a fan of your posts and maybe someday we'll find out what ethnic group you're from.

The ethnic tension on nairaland is too high for my system. The only way I think I can remain neutral and immune to it is to keep my ethnicity to myself.

But I have already hinted on other posts that I'm Niger Deltan - or rather part-Niger Deltan.

9jacrip:


Interesting.
And here I thought you were Yoruba. Not that it matters that you're a PH lady by birth and feel a connection to it though.

LOL. No I'm not Yoruba. But every Nigerian ethnic group interests me, and I always seize every opportunity I can get to learn as much about them as I can.

Informative. I consider myself a Port Harcourt girl - by birth at least. It's the only Nigerian city I feel a connection with.

OP, can you possibly also include a list of Ikwerre names and their meanings. I particularly would like to know what the following names mean: Otonti, Achinewhu, Aguma, Bekwele, Mandah, Nsirim, Egelege, Wahua

TonySpike:
I suspect Nigerman1 and tonychristopher are one and the same person. I personally don't trust tonychristopher's antecedents on this forum for a start. He goes unstable at topics regarding Yoruba history; he takes it on himself to determine issues of Yoruba history

Not very likely. NigerMan1 is a lot more coherent than Tonychristopher.

Am I the only one here who thinks Tonychristopher should stop already with his long copy-and-paste posts and his circuitous no-point arguments?

I respect the patience of the few folks here who have patiently and civilly been engaging him all this while.

bigfrancis21:


I ignored you because you had activated into default repeat mode, repeating your sore old points over and over again, after claiming initially that they were not migrants but later shifted stance to 'oh well they are migrants only if...'. If I remember clearly, I never shifted my stance throughout the debate and provided facts and evidence to back up my initial point which you clearly misunderstood initially. Clearly seeing that you had no point, you sharply entered default repeat mode - favourite phone media player mode, which repeats songs all over and over again until I change it.

Many times I have such short time to type that I type quickly and barely have time to return to that thread.

Oh well, Mandingoes are in Sierra Leone, as well as Fulas and it still unlikely that these fulas were proceeds of the yoruba slave trade. My point still stands. Keep running around in circles as usual.

I don't even care what your ethnicity is, I definitely knew you are from Niger Delta from the get-go.

My request is simple. Reply to absoluteSuccess's citation of Sultan Bello's words.

bigfrancis21:


Still feeling sore from our last debate, huh?

Oh yea I remember, you are the lady who couldn't make a point but jump around with no solid statement to hold on to after I punctured your so-called claim and provided back-up evidence. Yea, you should feel sore because you felt you were right until I proved you wrong yet you kept dragging the debate, repeating your sore old points over and over again, after initially shifting stances.

I consider you lucky because I got so busy that day and the next that I didn't get the chance to reply your last worn-out post.

The same debate you ran away from? LOL.

The same way you have shied away from pushing on with your claims that Mandingoes are in Congo and are nearer to Igboland than Yorubaland. (Use Google next time, that was a pretty big slip-up).

Please, address Sultan Muhammadu Bello's words to Clapperton cited here by absoluteSuccess, and don't try to shift attention to a discussion we had on another thread.

(By the way, anytime you wanna get back on that thread, I'll be there to school your ignorant arse.)

Oh, just in case I didn't make it clear before. I'm not Yoruba. I do not belong to any of the major ethnicities. I am a historian, or more correctly a student of history. Facts are all I care about.

Fulaman198:


People of Yarba <> Fulani. Again reading all passages posted here, it sounds like your "evidence" is working against you. It seems to state that the Yoruba people were subjugated by the Fulani. The Christians being referred to, were they even Yoruba...... Yoruba have only been Christians for less than 120 years.

This is amazing! How on God's green earth did you derive the bolded statement from the words of the Sultan? Flipping amazing!

And what does Yarba <> Fulani mean? If it means 'Yarba are same as Fulani' then that is even a more amazing derivation, my God!

The Christians by the way refer to the Europeans who used to show up on the coast to purchase slaves from the Yoruba.

No one is claiming dominance here. It is because you've chosen to look at this whole discussion as 'claims of dominance' that you are having problems grasping historical facts.

absoluteSuccess:
Ilorin is not the beginning and the end Yoruba history, hear the son of Uthman Dan Fodio to Clapperton before your sweet joy 'Ilorin emergency': "Yarba is an extensive province containing rivers, forests, sands and mountains, as also a great many wonderful and extraordinary things. In it the bird called babage (parrot) is found. By the side of this province there is an anchorage for the Christians, who used to go there and purchase slaves. These slaves were exported from our country and sold to the people of Yarba, who resold them to the Christians" Sultan Bello, 1823. Francis, I already agree with any twist you choose to make out of this.

Historical facts are historical facts. He'll either ignore this post and move on to other stuff, or come back and try desperately to find faults and loopholes in the words of Muhammad Bello son of the Shehu Usman Dan Fodio. He'll never agree that you have been right and he has been wrong.

Because some people keep looking at history from an ethnically-arrogant perspective, that's why this issue has been dragged out longer than it should. Everyone feels the need to claim superiority to all their neighbours. But history has always been a game of 'you fall for me, I fall for you.'

absoluteSuccess:
It is correct, don't see things from the way they are now, it used to be poor tribe against the rich, not Yoruba against Hausa or Fulani, I am not s.tupid to claim others as Yoruba slaves: when an area is raided up north, part of the victims are coastal bound, and some are collected by Yoruba dealers who may resold them later on. At least, Aole have that superiority complex or mindset when he said 'slaves will lord it over Yoruba' at the event of his demise. He use to have slaves, he was refering to the hords that Afonja harbours as compatriots as slaves. A man once told me a baffling story, he said he lived up north many years ago and one day he went to buy some items in the local market, then the woman attending to him noticed that he is Yoruba, he said the woman refused to give him his balance, claiming that she is Yoruba's slave.

Thank you. People sometimes are just too jumpy. And many people don't understand how slavery worked. They think you and other Yorubas are trying to claim you were militarily stronger than they were and conquered them.

That was not how it worked. Yorubas did not go up north to raid Fulani villages. It was simply that slaves of Fulani extraction passed from hand to hand to hand and then eventually reached Yoruba traders through whose hands they were further processed, eventually reaching the coast at Badagry or Port Novo. It was that simple. All this unnecessary heat about who was stronger and who was weaker... *smh*

Fulaman198:


Do you forget that the Sokoto Caliphate and all Emirs are Fulani controlled? Hausa overlords? Please kindly tell me what kind of drugs you are using lol they are not good for your mind.

You simply do not read to understand. You only want to defend your people at all cost, even to the point of being rather unreasonable. Before you dub me a 'Fulani hater', like I've seen you do to other people who have argued with you in the past, let me say no one here (least of all myself) is trying to slander your people. No need to get sentimental over facts.

Your Sokoto Caliphate only dates back to the 19th century Jihad. If you had read my earlier comments with an open mind you would have seen where I said very clearly - PRE-JIHAD. From the 14th or the 15th century (when Fulanis started trickling into Hausaland) up till the early 19th century the Fulani living in Hausaland were subjects of the Hausa kings (sarakuna). There were no Fulani emirs at the time. Only native Hausa kings. And the Fulani acknowledged them as their overlords and paid taxes.

Do you disagree with this?

Fulaman198:


This is quite laughable at best. The only accurate thing said here is in regards to the Mande (Mandingo people). Prior to the 19th Century, there were many other groups of Fulani settled in present-day Nigeria as Fulanis came in groups of many different clans from various West african countries. Usman Bii Foduye for example his roots were that of the Senegalese Fulani (the Toroobe) who were known as Clerics and people of God. However, there are many clans that settled in Nigeria even before the 19th Century.

In the past from Senegal all the way to Sudan, we Fulani gained a reputation as fierce warriors (though that's all in the past now). From our battles in Maasina Mali with the Tuaregs, Songhai, and the Mande. To everywhere. The reason why we are so widespread is due to this wanting to conquer.

Which part of this comment contradicts what I said? No one is arguing that Fulani were tough fighters. Herdsmen are often tough fighters.

At the same time, the fact is that Fulani in Nigeria (or more precisely Hausa land, as well as Bornu-controlled territories) pre-Jihad recognised the suzerainty of Hausa kings and the Mai-Bornu respectively. That is fact.

And it was the same in other kingdoms where Fulani people settled. One Songhai king was so anti-Fulani, he actually launched genocidal attacks against the Fulanis in his territory.

So tell me in clear terms the part of my comment you found laughable... the part that the Hausa were their overlords (in Northwestern Nigeria) or the part that a number of them (not a very large number, I quickly admit) could - and were - held as slaves?

DOUBLE POST

*shaking my head at people who always want to talk about sh*t they know nothing about*

Can someone ask Bigfrancis who told him Mandingoes are geographically closer to Igboland than to Yoruba land? Can someone ask Bigfrancis who told him Mandingoes were found in Central Africa and the Congo - Congo!

A simple Internet search in 'Mandingoes' would have prevented such a blunder.

A comment on the rest of the thread:

It's a bit sad this thread got badly derailed. But maybe it's also a good thing. Some ignorance has been corrected as a result.

On the issue of whether there were Fulani slaves in Yorubaland, and whether Fulani slaves could have passed through Yorubaland to reach such slave ports as Lagos, Badagry and Port Novo. I'll say there were definitely many Northern Nigerian elements among the slaves that passed through Yorubaland.

OROSUNBOLB:


Ewe people,you can read about them.

Aha! Exactly the answer I was expecting. I was also expecting the second Ghanaian 'Yoruba' subgroup to be Ga people.

Okay, here is what I want to tell you: The fact that these ethnic groups have traditions of origin (traditions are not 100% reliable anyway) linking them to the Yoruba area does not make them Yoruba.

Yoruba subgroups are groups that speak at least a Yoruboid language and practise Yoruba culture. The Ewe and the Ga do not speak languages that can be called Yoruba by any stretch. Neither is their culture Yoruba. They are full-fledged independent ethnic groups in their own right.

Calling them Yoruba subgroups is like calling the Issele people of Delta State a Bini subgroup because their traditions derive them from Benin.

literarymathy:


That of Delta state is very very unusual. That is why it is unique.

How is very very unusual? It's not like Delta State is far from the South West. Besides there's another larger Yoruboid-speaking group in Delta. The Itsekiri. So what makes the Olukumi case unusual?

Ilekeh:
Nothing new. Yorubas are everywhere.

Ask Ghanaians. There are two Yoruba sub groups in Ghana.

We're just quiet and peaceful wherever we are.

Can you name these two Yoruba subgroups in Ghana?

bigfrancis21:


You've got terribly thick skull to apprehend simple comprehension.

The Khoisan peoples are the true natives of SA, who are still found in SA today, as well as in Botswana and elsewhere.

If by now you still cannot comprehend the simple theory of migration and immigrants, I'm sorry you just still won't. You're just wasting your time blabbering away.

'I will say this one more time, Everyone is an immigrant in the sense you are using it in these your counter arguments.'. Bia nwanyi a, I makwa ife I na-ako? How can you say everyone is immigrant yet you don't know that some peoples have never been immigrant? Are you implying that everyone on earth has been traversing the world in an emery-go-round fashion since 3000BC? Seriously? Aunty, are you even listening to yourself? Listen, not every group on earth migrated. Igbos, Bamilekes, Ejaghams etc who are proto-bantus, originated in their area and migrated to nowhere. As an example, the Igbo presence in Igboland has been dated to some long time ago. Being proto-bantus, majority Igbos are not settlers in their land, albeit save for some clans that might have had ancestors migrating from somewhere else. If Igbos had migrated in the 14th century to Morocco, settled there and became 'natives', they ARE still immigrants till today, because they left their source and migrated to somewhere else.

One minute you're claiming everyone is 'immigrant', next minute you're saying Yorubas in Togo and Benin are not the same 'immigrants'? Where's your mental capacity for articulation and coherence?
Ubulu gi o buzi nke okuko?

Whites are immigrant settlers in US who on arrival fought with the natives who were already settlers and pushed majority southwards into South America and settled on their land. However, these people have a source = England. Same goes for the Africaners who outsourced themselves from the Dutch-speaking area. Yoruba migrants from Ife moved and settled in Togo and Benin and are simply immigrants, just as the English in America or Dutch in SA. Academic sources acknowledge this fact. Why are you hyperventilating over a known academic fact?

Of course, bantus who settled anywhere are Nigerian/cameroonian immigrants by today's standards, having originated from that axis. You don't even need to get to primary 3 to know that. It's simple logic.

Anyway, I'm a fanatic of Igbo related issues. Anything you want to know, I'll gladly educate you.

Ka o dizia ka anyi a kparo.

You really are not smart. The distinction between literal immigrants (which is basically everybody) and common-parlance immigrants which I tried to make, completely flew over your head, didn't it? Don't worry, I am not surprised. You are not half as intelligent as you imagine.

Anyway, genetic evidence ties West Africans to East Africa, generally accepted as the oldest home of modern humans, and where the earliest remains have been found.

I conclude then that Igbos ( who are West Africans) are East African immigrants.

Everybody is an immigrant if you go far back enough into their past. But people who settled where they are now far back enough in time and who have established for themselves an identity in their abode tied to the land they've occupied for centuries are NOT generally referred to as immigrants there. Why does this have to be repeated over and over for you? The Yoruba-speaking Togolese are immigrants in Togo only in the sense that every other Togolese is an immigrant.

And ka m gwa gi nke bu eziokwu o nwero anything I ma about Igbo history. O kwa ife a I na-edetoghali na this culture section? Onye guo one or two articles na Internet o chee na e nwe Ife o ma. I have a BSc and a Masters in African history. Hope to go ahead and do a PhD in it, maybe next year. I know more about your Igbo people than you can ever know by looking up poorly written stuff on the internet.

You didn't think I spoke your language, did you?

macof:
it's a made up tale by Samuel Johnson
lamurudu probably never existed

It is not fair to say Revd Johnson just made it all up. As a matter of fact, he didn't. The version of Yoruba-origin story that Johnson used in his book was obtained from an account given to Hugh Clapperton by the then Sultan of Sokoto, Muhammadu Bello. That version appears to have been relatively well-known in Muslim circles.

It is legit to criticise that account as Muslim propaganda but it is not fair to Samuel Johnson to say that it was he who just sat down and made it all up.

People often accuse Johnson of making up things, when most of the times he only related what he was told by the Oyo arokin of his day. What he was told was sometimes not accurate, but it was not he himself who originated the inaccurate bits in his book.

bigfrancis21:


@bold...you would never know what I know because you are not in my head. And you can't judge what I know based on a few lines you read on the internet. You don't even know me an inch. I have had this particular argument in the past before in 2013. Going through my posts of 2013 will prove this. I suppose you are an adult, and not a child, and expect some level of decent reasoning from you.

As for the issue of migrants, academic sources recognize that the Yorubas in Togo and Benin are migrants from Nigeria. Nigeria is their main dormot, from where they spread to other regions. Whether recent or early migrants, they are Nigerian immigrants in that sense. The whites of US today who claim natives are immigrants from Britain who settled in the US. We all know their origin - europe and we all know where they will go back to when the time comes. The whites may be 'natives' in America today, but they are immigrants and they recognize they are immigrants, US land originally belongs to the Red Indians.. Same goes for the africaners of South Africa are descendants of dutch immigrants who settled in SA. They struggle for land with the black african natives as if they own the land, when they are only but mere immigrants.

I am only regurgitating what I have read from academic sources. If you have issues with accepting the fact that Yorubas are migrants in Benin and Togo, redirect your hyperventilation towards the academic sources that brought it forward. I don't expect to teach you common sense.

I will say this one more time, Everyone is an immigrant in the sense you are using it in these your counter arguments. Red Indians (who you used in your example) immigrated from the Asian Mainland and crossed the Bering Strait to reach America. Black South Africans (who you also used in your example) came from the interior of Africa. As Bantu people their origin ultimately lies in the Nigeria/Cameroun boundary area. When they reached South Africa, there were already people settled there - the tawny-complexioned diminutive Khoisan peoples. Hey, guess what? Black South Africans are Nigerian and Cameroonian immigrants, according to Bigfrancis logic!

We do not call them (Black South Africans and Red Indians) immigrants today because they had fully established themselves in their respective present-day homelands long before modern times. They had gained territories of their own and were not, technically speaking, tenants or squatters on land that legitimately belongs to other groups.

It is the same with the Sabe, Ketu, Anago, Idaisa, Isa, Ana (Ife) etc Yoruba subgroups. They were already established in Benin and Togo before modern times, and the territory they occupy is their ancestral land, and do not legitimately belong to any non-Yoruba groups.

They can only be considered immigrants in the sense that every other Togolese and Beninois ethnic groups are immigrants, having ultimately come at some ancient period in history from somewhere else. There is nothing different about how the Ewe and the Mina, for example, came from outside Togo and settled there between the 11th and 16th centuries, and how the Ana and the Isa also came from outside Togo and settled there also within the same time frame. Yet you want to brand the latter groups immigrants, and not the former. Really? LOL.

This is simple enough, but being who you are (Bigfrancis), I expect you to come back with more grappling-at-straws kind of rebuttals. Biko, go back to your Igbo threads.