₦airaland Forum

helpee:
don't be silly my guy. Did NATO led invasion of libya worked? Why did it take many months of bombing before ghaddafi was captured? So u are dumb enuf to assume that prayer is magic? His prayer is definately working with the series of high profile arrest that were made following his pronouncement. So u assume that once he speaks BH attack will just stop like magic. Nothing including prayers work like that. After the amnesty program of yaradua, we all witnessed a lot of kidnappings still but over time we all come to agree that it actually worked to a reasonable extent. When God annointed david as a king thru prophet samuel, dumb people like u tut it wud be immediate but it tuk 14yrs from prophecy to the throne. Prayer is not magic but it is powerful. With all these high profile arrest BH may soon become history regardless of the bombings you see here and there. Stop being petty. Stop being foolish and stop being silly. It is only a baby that talks like you expecting immediate answer to things like this. At least oyedepo contributed what he had to the fight against terrorism which is prayer; how many imams have done that. What is your own contribution too apart from coming to nairaland to vomit nonsense? Kudos oyedepo. You are a courageous nigerian

you are another blind religious fool who believes that in a probability experiment of a coin, no matter whether the outcome is head or tail, the probability of an event occurring is 1. Prayer is waste of time as can be seen in the mess your jungle country Nigeria is today. you can travel round the world to predominantly atheistic countries and see how prosperous they are. So we pay tax for military and the police for nothing? If they cannot ensure law and order, why then are they paid salary? You think the arrest of some people that is yet to reduce or create any change is the result of your con pastor's prayer? You are actually a bigger fool than the opening poster. I will tag you a cretin because you are dafter than daft itself. You're all so lazy, spending bulk of your life praying to some non existing god, and expecting miracle to happen in your life and solve your problems. You cannot even manage your lives and abundant resources cos you have decided to make your brain a waste and instead sit down waiting for some phony god to come help you eradicate poverty from your country. You even had the guts to be using a product of mans reasoning typing here and displaying more stupidity. What have religion achieved in this world besides fueling hatred and segregation? Keep on dreaming and waiting for spiritual intervention, while I laugh at your suffering because you have refused to use the only good thing nature have given you which is your brain. Hope you know 30 people died yesterday as a result of Boko Haram's activity? Probably you don't know because you don't have power to watch television as you are waiting for god to come solve your power problem also.
Idiot!

FXKing2012:
First, the miracles are not fake, I know cos I've been a direct beneficiary of it.

Second, if they start putting their charitable deeds online, people will come out again to attack them that they are doing it for the donations and money.

Well, the primary purpose of a church is salvation of souls, then other things may follow.

You are so so blind and completely lost with your brain being a waste. Don"t you reason at all? Instead of cringing in your own shell and denounce most of the teachings of this so called men of god- oyedepo inclusive, you are here still defending them, despite 100% clarity that there is a zero positive effect of his prayers and prophetic declaration on their flocks. The Nigerian society is the major blame factor for the current state of things but you still have a brain to decide what is rational or not. I pity your life and hope you acknowledge the truth and act accordingly before your life on earth will end up being a waste.

diluminati:
so ghanaians are equally as dull as 1/2 of nigerians hmmm

I guess it runs in the blood of the black race

Uyi Iredia:
It's a fellow human(s) who made a dictionary. And no, dictionaries aren't my friends, anyone who thinks a dictionary is a friend is obviously psychotic. Let's try the following definitions:

* African - a dark skinned person from the continent of Africa or of African descent
* atheist  - a person who rejects the notion of a God

Why are questions silly ? Did the question tell you it was silly ? I thought critical thinking required asking questions ? Funny ke   I just dey.

You are so confused because the Dictionary was developed by the owner of the Language you speak, so you cannot be smarter than the creators themselves that set the rules governing how you use their language. Until you develop your own language and get a global approval of your development, you have no claim to another mans property right so don't speak like you know more that the oxford professors that developed the dictionary of their mother tongue when your own history was compiled by this same people.
If you think the definition of Africa is not inline which what you'll like it to be, then look for a better world, or better still develop your local dialect and sell it to the world. Everything you see in the oxford dictionary is exactly the way it should be. Its like the bible of the christian that should never be modified else you're not speaking proper English but your own version which becomes a vernacular.

ekwah:
There they go again, so-called atheist and agnostics who look for cheap excuses to qualify their stand against God's existence. "You can NEVER use a FINITE mind to understand an INFINITE God". Even from the so-called "rational perspective", won't it be a lot better to believe in the existence of God and live faithfully according to his rules, than to lead a life without God, die only to realize that he truly existed? To prove God's existence is as simple as ABC , but the truth is that atheists and agnostics will never even give a chance to be brought back to the right track at all; they look for excuses to justify their stand and turn a blind eye whenever/wherever they see truth.Of all the so-called claims against God's existence, has there been any clear/uncontroversial/flawless evidence for such a stand? Of course not! The talk about evolution , and use Hawking's Black hole theories

Everything about the modern day world are stated in the bible. The bible made it clear that salvation is free for all mankind, but is not cheap. A good number of atheist prefer to shy away from this truth (salvation).They want to be able to live life to the "fullest"; sleep with their galfriends( even some "Christians"do this) before marriage, consume alcohol to a drunken state, do whatever "good" or "bad" they want, and feel no remorse (moral) because they have eliminated any reasons to feel that way (after all there is no God right?). They look for cheap "freedom"(Freedom that will bring woes on the day of reckoning). Some of them even interpret their stance as 'liberalism" or "being neutral". To me, its the high point of cowardice; an inability to genuinely search for the truth to embrace it.
I must admit that the actions of many present day "churches" and "men of God" have made it a lot more difficult for you guys to believe in God, but the great thing is that all these were mentioned before hand in the bible. "For in the last days, there shall be corruption in the churches, many false prophets and preachers shall arise to mislead the people(, )"this warning was meant to pre-educate Christians about the present happenings in the Church. So many men of God preach doctrines that are based on materialism, but the funny thing is that they still attract large congregation of "Christians" despite the warnings in the bible. Jesus Christ said " I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me" and the bible; "For what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul" Not even the world's best historians can disprove the Jesus' accounts in then bible so please people stop living in falsity. Not everything in this world exists in the physical realm and the earlier u began considering the truth, the better it will be for u. I can prove to any one that God exists any time, any day, and at any place. Share your thoughts guys.

Another daft christian. Stop ranting and quoting from some ancient book written by illiterates to explain phenomenons they didnt understand many of which science have explicitly explained with proof yet they still hold on to ignorance. You are the bigger coward because you threw away all sense of reasoning, allow people to think for you and accept all what you are thought in the church out of fear. You need to deliver yourself from the bondage of religion

Obi1kenobi:
The dictionary is your friend, bro. Else, Google or Yahoo and several search engines and encyclopedias are there. What a silly question. You don't know who or what an African or atheist is? Are you being funny?

He's trying to be foolishly philosophical by creating complexity out of simplicity. Christians always try to see and interpret what doesn't exist and that is what he is trying to do.

I am Agnostic more towards the Atheist side, because I don't recognize any of the religious gods, including Jesus and Mohammed. Everybody knows my faith in my family and see me as a lost soul. I normally warn people not to start religious rhetoric with me and don't care what people say. I normally feel so unhappy being in that environment called Nigeria as you are more or less a social pariah for refusing to accept the status quo, but still i dont care because I see religion as nonsense and not something meant for a smart mind.

ea7:
I deconverted two of my friends to atheism frm christianity using jst arguments. Over a 1 yr period. What do u tink guys.

Good job ea7. We need more people like you in Nigeria to teach people how to reason more objectively. Congrats on your new converts

Micuilles:
@ Mr. 2good.

I'm beginning to suspect you. I'll let you know now that all you've said are lies. I work in an international french company. Most of the experts a Europeans. I have five sibs living & working in the U.S. My immediate older bro is in the U.S. Navy. My oldest bro is a medical director & the other one works in an O & G firm.

Also, there are service contractors on our fields working 28 days (experts) and are paid between 4000 & 5,500 euros per month. as I speak, there are two on this field who were mechanics in their nations military before resigning to work in Naija for these amounts. Unless you're mistaken there logistic & security allowances & benefits as salaries.

Maybe the O & G firm you work for produce groudnut oil.

Those experts you are talking about are high school grad and its a shame to compare you a BSc holder earning less than them and also, I worked for one of the Major multinationals drilling for oil offshore, so don't worry about the name of the company. Why dont you talk about the salary of the Engineers, Drilling Supervisors, Production Supervisors etc?I dont have to prove anything to you. Now let me educate you. Salary in the oil and gas industry is higher in Nigeria than in Europe but about thesame in America because when the crisis became unbearable for experts, nobody wanted to come to Nigeria so the oil and gas companies had to increase salary drastically within a short time, to lure in the experts. This made the Nigerian staffs to feel cheated and clamour for an increase in their own salary resulting in salaries in Nigeria being very high vis-a-vis Europe. If you as a black man work as a professional in Europe/ America you are paid exactly thesame with a white man. But thesame white man comes to Nigeria and earn atleast 5 times your salary when compared to a Nigerian doing thesame job. The Nigerian mechanics in your field would probably be HND holders which by standard should be more educated than those experts with mainly high school diploma but why is there no correlation in their renumeration? It is because those experts are far more exposed, have better training and know the job more than you lots because an average Nigerian company doesn't give sound training. You will not understand that because you have no reference point of measurement order than being so happy to be doing your current job and earning some money. All what you mention about your brothers and family, doesnt mean you have thesame exposure as they do. Try to understand you are not them. I can see very narrow mindedness in your approach to discussions and will still say you need to live in a very diverse multicultural and multinational environment for some period, to get your mentality reshaped and respect other people's view.
Also, money is not everything. try and get that in your head. The most important thing which is what I have been trying to let you understand is how well you let your life impact positively on others but being a typical brainwashed Nigerian, all you think of is success and prosperity when you will still die and leave all your wealth behind.  Bill Gate and Warren Buffet are both Agnostic and don't believe in your god yet they are one of the Wealthiest men on earth. The only wealth your god could give you was a change to these non believers. Bill gate just helped to eradicate Polio from India last year and is planning on doing thesame in Nigeria with his wicked wealth(unbeliever) according to you, while your so call men of god loot your church contribution to live a flamboyant life style at your own peril.

Micuilles:
Now that I know you're probably a pagan, I rest my case. It's impossible to discuss God with unbelievers. Some have already endorsed their flight tickets to hell. Good bye _{groundnut oil producer}

If you have so much proof in your religious believe, convince me objectively rather than making some coincidental scenario's as proof of your god being the all superior than other gods.

Micuilles:
@ Mr. 2good,

Congrats man for working very hard & achieving all you did by your strength. I'm sure if you work a little harder you will soon become the most succesful man in the world.

For me, I'll tell you the truth, no matter how little, IT IS GOD THAT DID IT ALL. I pray your eyes get opened sooner than later so you don't learn by experience. WITHOUT GOD, MAN IS NOTHING. At the least, I have recognized that God is my success. If it was luck, why did I not get the job in 2005, why did it wait until 2009 after the seed? why did the admin mgr keep my CV for 4 yeaars after chasing me away? how many 3rd class graduate teacher do you know that got this kind of result in a place where he knows no one? If wetern counteries give there citizens all this as basic amenities, why do we have expertriates working in Nigeria for 4000 euro a month?

Jesus did not die to start any religion. He came to give us life (those who beleive). LIFE IS A FUNCTION OF GRACE.

Maybe when you discover how to produce the oxygen you breath that keeps you alive, you will call yourself a god. That's why the bible says we should not envy the wealth of the wicked (unbeleiver). They rise to fall. NEVER BOAST IN MAN. ALL THINGS BELONG TO GOD. PROMOTION, HEALTH, SUCCESS AND ALL GOOD THINGS COME FROM GOD. Take it or leave it.

Typical of a bigot christian who believe that what they know is superior to what any other religious or non religious group know yet your god cannot eradicate the poverty and suffering in Nigeria. The biggest difference between a typical westerner and you Nigerians is that you think everything is wealth and dont ever think of how to live your life for the benefit of your fellow man that is why you have suffering existing all around you. For your information, I worked for an operator and the least 1 knew any expatriate earning was $1500 per day and they work 28/28. People that will earn what you quoted are mainly indians/Pakistani etc because salaries are not high in those countries due to their very high population. Europeans/Americans dont earn that low in the Oil and Gas business in Nigeria even if they work for a drilling contractor or a service company.
An average European/ American does not struggle to earn the money you are so much happy about because they get health benefit from government, power is constant, transport system is perfectly in tact, their old age is secured because on a worst case scenario, you are placed in an old parental care home and taken care of by the government, you get social security if you're jobless and most importantly they are thought from birth the importance of caring for their fellow man that is why even though they pay high tax, they don't complain about the high tax because they see the tax doing good things in the society and helping other poor people around. But all you Nigerian Christians boast about is nothing but wealth and selfish prosperity. You never live your life for your neighbours but just yourself. And like I said earlier, you need to stay in a very diverse multinational and multicultural environment so you'll see that all what you think you know is more of indoctrination and brain washing you got from birth and nothing more. You need to expose your mentality beyond what Nigerian had offered you before now. Middle East is a very developed with no poverty and they don't believe in your god. I have been to several countries there so I know how they live. Most Europeans and Asians generally don't believe in god and don't need praying and fasting to get all what you're boasting about. I don't blame you at all but your upbringing as a Nigerian. I was treated as a Pariah myself because of my challenging of the religious status quo.
If you believe in your god, mind your business and stop forcing it on others. That is the reason why you're killing yourselves in Nigeria in the name of religious superiority and liviing in poverty.

Micuilles:
I got the Job as a senior staff, on a two weeks on & off basis with a 15days salary of 150k. I still Pastor the church. After two years, I was promoted in the office to a coordinator. As my church grew, God's grace in my life increased. From 10k per day salry, I now earn 26k per day. That's just withing 2 years without any O & G experience.

I'm now the head of my department & people who had worked on the same field for 8 to 15 years now report to me. NB: I'm bearly 30yrs old. Plus, while ministering in the fellowship offshore, I gave a word of knowledge on time for a man who had worked in that field for 18yrs without promotion. Two months later, his exper supervisor resigned & he was promoted. He has got two within that time. He is about 55yrs old. This is just the few I can type for now.

For your information, my influence in my work place has so increased by grace that everyone wants to know me even from onshore. I get offers almost everyday. Remember I am a trained teacher by profession. In conclusion, YOU CAN CHOOSE YOUR PROFESSION, BUT GOD DECIDES WHAT PUTS FOOD ON YOUR TABLE. God bless you all.

Chairman, stop all theses nonsense. You achieved because you worked and got the best with some level of luck and not because of the cheque you wrote to your pastor. I stopped believing in religion and all the associated gods as far back as 17years ago and that did not stop me from having 4 scholarships during my Bachelors degree programme at Unilag, I did NYSC in a multinational company, got my first banking job while 6months into NYSC(GTB), within the next 2years worked in 3 banks before leaving to join an oil and gas company where I was for few years earning more than what you are clamoring here and got a scholarshiop again worth more than 10million naira to study for my masters abroad and the last time I pray was like 17-18 years ago. The only thing I do is work hard, research and put in my best in all I do. Stop deceiving your fuckin.g self. When good thing happen to you, it is god and not the effort you have put in. I just get pissed off when people that have not achieved anything except say get a job in an oil/gas company or get a visa ascribe their achievement to some god. You need to stay abroad in the west for sometime to discover that most of what you all pray for are most basic necessities provided by government to their citizens. You think you have achieved because you are in a country where nothing work and you appear to be doing well relatively to other poor Nigerians around you.

sheyguy:
Most of the comments here by the Unilag supporters are nothing but daft.
Firstly, most of these daft-comment posters av no understanding of the topic of discussion. When the OP asked the question: Is Unilag Any Better Than Covenant University? , He was simply challenging the previous insinuation made by Unilag students and other public school students that Covenant has low standard because they graduated 85 first class in a particular year. For those 'public-school-is-better-than-private-school' grads who can't understand the OP's question, the OP is simply saying, now that unilag and most top rated public schools av started churning out first class in like manner that made covenant a glorified secondary school, is unilag still better than Covenant?
Secondly, the world webometric ranking of unis does not prove nada. It is just a ranking of schools through their sites and traffic related to those sites. If for example unilag can support most of their transactions with their students via their website and as a result get more hits and search, then the webometric ranking system rates them higher for that alone and not the quality of their grads. We all know such a system favours school with large population of students. How then does one compare OSU in Ogun state, where there diploma student population alone can rival the entire population of most schools, to a school like Covenant?

From my own rough estimate, going by the opinion of neutral partier like employers, training centres, NYSC officials, external examiners (mostly from public schools like unilag), and overseas report of post graduate students, Covenant is not inferior to any single school in Nigeria. As for which school produces the better grad and is better between Covenant and UniLag? i will leave that to neutral parties that come in contact with both set of grads to determine.

You are so so daft and one of those lazy Nigerian student who doesn't take time to study things before making comments. Have you ever taken your time to go through any of the ranking sites to check out the methodology of their ranking? Internet is open to the public, so don't just sit in front of your computer and type nonsense without confirmation. Try do a little research before you post informations in the public.

tyor:
If my reasoning shud change, i'd wish that d same circumstances that forced some pple to attend AuchiPoly and Kwarapoly befall u and the rest of ur lineage.


If u have half of a brain in ur Unilag head, u'll know dat some pple wished to be in unilag but circumstances pushed 'em elsewhere e.g. private schools or even polytechnics and they turn out to be in dat employment, u hav on ur 2012 prayerlist.

pussylips oshi

So your problem is that you could not get an admission in Unilag. Still not an excuse to talk bad about people that went there, instead you should think of what to do to make your life better. Also like I said earlier, Unilag is not a world class university when compared with Universities in the west, likewise every other Nigerian University. But within the confines of Nigeria as a country, a high proportion of the smartest brains in Nigeria go there that's the reason for the high first class rate you see the school producing.

tyor:
I dont see the argument here,  Those people dat got Phd in Exxonmobil, MSc in Total and Prof in Chevron would have gotten same if they attended Lasu. The school will not make u who you are not. If u're a smart kid, whether Lasu, Ekpoma, Covenant, Babcock, Ife, ilorin, unilag,etc, u'll achieve wateva u opt to achieve.

NOTE: Let Unilag graduates occupy Total, Chevron, Mobil, Mckinsey, Bloomberg, PwC, KPMG, , bla bla bla. while LASU, AUCHIPOLY, EKPOMA, ANATECH, KWASU, KOGISTU, ORUMBA Graduates occupy National Assembly, Federal Ministries, State houses, etc

This is a silly thread!

Why are you angry? You need a change of reasoning from the status quo.

afam4eva:
So, are you implying that it's only Unilag students that go on to schools like stanfors? I have people from OSU  going on to ivy-league universities. So, what exactly is your point?

My last post is so easy to read and understand, so if you are really smart, you will not make the last post you did. Why do you guys want others not to achieve something simply because you couldn't do thesame? That is my problem with the black race, always against the progress of fellow blacks and refusing to admit people are smarter than they are.
Also, any first class graduate even from a state university is smart because you don't get it by mistake but by hard work and determination. The people I taked about in my last post, were from my own graduating class alone in one year.

x

Why do you guys bring up this topic each year Unilag convocate students? I'm kind of tired of educating you people what an  average first class student from Unilag achieves when they graduate and go into the industry or pursue their career abroad. Quality of education is lower in 100% of Nigerian university relatively to what you'll get in the western universities, but I am confident that some of the smartest brains in Nigeria pass through Unilag

buzugee:
i have noticed people writing long epistles in arguments and they are all conjectures and innuendos and assumptions and none of them is backed by any biblical verse. lord says anyone who does this is offending him and he is against such practices. JEREMIAH 23 VS 31.

What if the bible is just another story book to me? Anything that cannot be backed up by common sense should not even be argued

dmxqo:
Jesus poor? So u think his garment waz OKRIKA whn soldier had 2 fight and gamble 2 get a piece? Na koret DESIGNERS GARMENT well perfumed by Mary Mandalene!
He waz rich!

What proof do you have about him being rich?
Just because soldiers gambled over his garment makes him rich? You religious people are so delusional that you see things that doesnt exist just to justify your fictitious believes.

chiteny:
Ah!! Bros no talk o . Them say Jesus get plenty moiney He had to employ the services of an accountant (Judas) to manage am . A whole Jesus poor? Abeg no make people put gun thru their computerscreen shoot u o!

Judas was just a tax collector. No difference between him and say someone you see in a departmental store working as a sales person. It requires no technical skill to be a collector except to know how to do basic mathematics like addition and subtraction, so stop calling him an accountant cos accountants are well trained to be financial managers

Joagbaje is one of the people causing Nigeria to be in its current poverty state. Coming to the public to defend fraudulent practices that he benefits from and deceive himself by believing that people that object being deceived by thieving pastors like Joagbaje is poor. I dole out alot of money to family members and friend that castigate my non believe in religious gods yet they claim to worship a god that answers all things. It is just pathetic.
Religion has never and will never solve any problem. The solution to poverty is hardwork and planning and never giving. Giving only make pastors rich while the giver looses. Prayer is a waste of time and never ever works.

Other Business centers are:
1. Winners Chappel
2. The Redeem Christian Church of God, which is good at expanding their business through opening of branches everywhere
3. Christ Embassy
4. Infact, every church is a business center

Joagbaje:
Where many people just like this man miss it is the inability to differentiate between the rapture and second coming. They are not the same event. The rapture of the church takes place before the tribulation . And the second coming of Christ to the earth for the Jews takes place 7 years after the rapture. The two have been used interchangeably by many people . Couple with the fact that the old testament did not see rapture. Because it seem not to be in the original timeline.

What is rapture ? The taking up of the church. Israel still blind about their Messsiah

Between the rapture and second coming ,Israel as a nation would have come to accept Christ as messiah.

What is second coming? Christ and the church coming to save and fight for Israel . Christ will come to the earth and establish his kingdom for 1,000 years and we will reign with him. Satan will be imprisoned .

After 1,000 years Satan will be released , he will try another rebellion , he finally be put down and the final white thrown judgment will take place.

Ray HAGIN IS WRONG.

These are all bullshi.t written from your imagination. Isreal does not believe in Jesus christ hence from your biblical believe, should be destined for hell fire. Heaven and Hell doesn't exist, so stop making statement you have no objective proof about order than some ancient story book written by primitive illiterates.

Image123:
Whatever. They're all dead now, so they can't speak for themselves. What is plain though is that America was founded firmly on principles of righteousness and the fear of God. And they have experienced national and true 'christian' revivals that has changed their course greatly. It's incomparable to simply playing religion as widely seen in nigeria and most of Africa. Religion is not righteousness, that's the difference. America was righteousness, though they're obviously falling now. They are destroying the superstructure, and if care's not taken, will tamper with the foundation.

How does enslaving an entire race for about three centuries and almost extermination of the native indians amount to being righteous in christianity? For your information, slavery was officially ended by Abraham Lincoln in 1865 while discrimination against blacks and other minorities continued for almost a century till the civil right movement officially made congress to create laws to protect minorities in the 1960's.
How does all that amount to being righteous? I dont know why you throw away your common sense of reasoning, just to look for cheap points to buttress your imaginary religious believes

frosbel:
The following is taken from the book "Toward The Mystery" by Rev. William Edelen. He is an active ordained Presbyterian and Congregational minister for 30 years. Adjunct professor of Religious Studies and Anthropology, University of Puget Sound Tacoma, Washington.

Begin Quote:

Founding Fathers Would Howl If Called Christian

In few other areas of American history is there such a distortion of facts as there is regarding the religious orientation of our Founding Fathers.

A recent Guest Opinion columnist wrote in The Idaho Statesman that: "200 years ago, having religion meant one's life had been drastically altered by the saving lordship of Jesus Christ. Our country was founded by 'born again' men of heart and mind." Those statements are absurd.

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin (and even Abraham Lincoln, another of our most admired Presidents) must be turning over in their graves and weeping at such a perversion of their beliefs.

Our most distinguished Founding Fathers did not believe in a "personal" God ,  they did not believe that the Bible was anything other than literature ,  and they had an almost contempt for the Christian clergy and Christian doctrine. "God" was to them "nature's god"; an impersonal form, or "providence." Thomas Paine said it for all of them in these words: "Men and books lie. Only nature does not lie."

In the interest of truth and integrity, I will let these brilliant men speak for themselves:

George Washington refused to ever take communion (looking upon it as superstition), refused to recite liturgy and refused to kneel. Historians classify him as a deist, as did his contemporaries. He never, at any time, professed any "Christian" doctrine or dogma. Episcopalian Bishop Wilson declared Washington to be "only a Unitarian if anything." Historians say that Washington recommended and concurred with American Consul Joel Barlow's statement, written in the Treaty of Peace and Friendship that: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

John Adams wrote "This is my religion ,  joy and exaltation in my own existence ,  so go ahead and snarl ,  bite ,  howl, you Calvinistic divines and all you who say I am no Christian. I say you are not Christian." Regarding the trinity, he wrote this to Jefferson, "Tom, had you and I been 40 days with Moses, and beheld the great God, and even if God himself had tried to tell us that three was one ,  and one equals three, you and I would never have believed it. We would never fall victims to such lies."

Thomas Jefferson, [/b]the sole author of the Declaration of Independence (outside of minor word changes), called the Bible a "dunghill" and said that to remove a few of the teachings of Jesus was to "remove the few diamonds from the dunghill." Other quotes: "Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man" and "The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible."

[b]Benjamin Franklin wrote: "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."

James Madison wrote: "During almost 15 centuries the legal establishment known as Christianity has been on trial, and what have been its fruits, more or less in all places? THESE ARE THE FRUITS: Pride, indolence, ignorance and arrogance in the clergy. Ignorance ,  arrogance and servility in the laity and IN BOTH CLERGY AND LAITY superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

Thomas Paine, who inspired both James Madison and Abraham Lincoln, wrote: "When I see throughout this book, called the Bible, a history of the grossest vices and a collection of the most paltry and contemptible tales and stories, I could not so dishonor my Creator by calling it by His name."

Abraham Lincoln said: "I have never united myself to any church because I could not give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian doctrine and dogma which characterize their articles of belief and confession of faith. When any church will require only the Great Commandment (the Jewish Shema) for belief, then I will join that church." Lincoln would never be baptized ,  he would never make any profession of "Christian" faith ,  he would never affiliate with any church or denomination ,  he never subscribed to any liturgy or ritual. His own wife said, "My husband is not a Christian but is a religious man, I think."

Perhaps the point is made for those who would care to pursue it further prior to making statements that will cause the enlightened to blush with embarrassment.

A show of hands on how many would like our Founding Fathers' religious orientation to have been different is not going to change the facts. In the interest of integrity, let us not be celebrating what never was, for there is much we can celebrate that was. The wells of significant, profound and enriching "religion" ran far deeper in most of these men than in a great many orthodox Christians ,  of both yesterday and today.

Too many of us are like the priests in Galileo's day who refused to look through the telescope for fear of what they might see. And too many of us are like the lady who, when first told about evolution, responded with, "Well, let us pray to God that it is not true, but IF IT IS TRUE, then let us pray to God nobody ever hears about it."

Source

Frosbel we are waiting for you to join our unbelieve in god cos you are gradually reasoning objectively and need a little bit of more objective reasoning to see the entire truth unlike most other christians that completely try to avoid to get some form of knowledge outside what the bible tells them

Joagbaje:
@Illuminati

You seem to be ignorant of america histrory.

Since you know alot about American history, can you please educate us with proof from historical records and not the bible please!

bermuda1:
Prayers answereth all things is a popular mantra in Nigeria. The average Nigerian will pray about 5 times a day. The Christians will in the least pray in the morning when they get up, at night before they go to bed and once every mealtime. Muslims observe the Salat or five daily prayers. The anointed Pentecostal will even say a short prayer to enable him have the strength to say the main prayers. To say Nigerians are very prayerful people will be stating the obvious.

The main beneficiary of the prayerful Nigerian is the Nigerian Government. Nigerians will rather put their faith in prayers than hold their government accountable. The Nigerian has a prayer to counter the almost every failing of the government. For bad roads, we play for journey mercies. For poor security, we cover ourselves, houses and properties with the mighty blood of Jesus. For unemployment, we pray for breakthrough. For our bad schools, we pray for exam success. For poor healthcare, we pray for divine healing. For anything we missed, we pray for our country Nigeria.

These days our prayer warriors and marabouts have taken on the roles of commissioners and ministers. We depend on them to fill in the gaps when government officials siphon project monies to Swiss bank accounts. This however amounts to double taxation, as prayers do not come cheap in Nigeria. Prayers for breakthrough and prosperity can cost as much as 10% of your meagre income in the form of tithes. If your require spiritual healing and insurance from your neighbourhood native doctor, you will have to factor in the going rate for a black he-goat, white cockerel, kolanuts, alligator pepper and a bottle of Hennessey or black Label. No modern native doctor worth his salt will accept aromatic schnapps or ogogoro. Everybody has gone foreign these days.

The prayer sorting office in heaven will be in a state of confusion when prayer requests from Nigerians arrive. How should they treat a prayer request from car drivers who want protection from their cars, meanwhile armed robbers are praying for there to be flashy cars on the road when they are doing their operation? On the other hand, fake drug dealers pray for malaria epidemic so they call sell enough medicine.

No matter how much Nigerians pray, it looks like they know there is a limit to divine intervention. Have you ever heard anybody pray, “God, please let there be electricity in my house for the next three days”? Electricity seems to be the yoke that breaks the prayer camel’s back. Even the greatest of prayer warriors and miracle workers have still not been able to invoke the first prayer “Let there be light”. Generator and candle sellers do not need to do prayer and fasting because they know that no prayers fashioned against their business shall prosper until the government does the right this and Lights Up Nigeria.

In as much as you have said the truth that prayer does not work and that religion is a fraud, wait and see how blindly devoted religious faithfuls (Christians especially) will come here to defend their ineffective religion, without actually refuting everything you have said. Really pathetic race!

Joagbaje:
The Jews still believe in God but they are suffering partially since the sinned against God. They will be restored when they finally come back to God and embrace his messiah for them.

Mr Jo, incase you don't know, the Jews don't recognize Jesus as god, so get that straight if you don't know today. Also stop circulating false rumour that America was founded under god because even children know about the African slave trade that resulted in the movement of over 12-13 million Africans by thesame so called god fearing Americans/ Europeans into the American continent, after they had decimated and killed most of the native Indians that own the land and also thousands of Africans were thrown aboard slave ships when ever the slave ships come in contact with a British patrol ship on the high sea after slavery was abolished.
Thesame America fought a civil war between 1861 to 1865(4 years) because the majorly christian south(later Confederate) refused to accept an end to slavery and instead resorted to fighting the majorly northern American states(The Union), in what still happens to be the bloodiest war in the history of that country after Abraham Lincoln who was an anti slavery candidate won the 1860 presidential election.
America was built on the exploitation and enslavement of a race for century so stop saying what you have no single proof about or are the actions above what your god approves of his people?

Joagbaje:
America was a nation under God. Her foundation was God, her constitution was made through the word of God. But they began to take God out of their system. That's the problem . The same thing goes for Israel. These two nations were founded on Gods principle. When they turn away from God . They suffer for it.

Why did you avoid the part about Nigeria and god? For your information, Israel is an officially Jewish state and still don't believe in your Jesus messiah, so their existence for the past 2000 years have conflicted with Christianity and Islam which are the 2 major religion on earth. That's the main reason for their persecution by a predominantly war driven religious world over the past millennium.
Besides reading your bible, try to also study history to get a better understanding of what has happened in this world in the name of religion, before today

Joagbaje:
America will go down. In fulfillment of prophecy . The only way to prevent this is to Go back to God. As long as they follow the path of sodom and Babylon ,grace will keep departing from them.

What have Nigeria that follow god excessively and blindly achieved? You guys always say nonsense when you see physical evidence and claim it is revelation. Of course we know the likes of China, Brazil and India are coming up, so anybody could have used that common sense to make thesame claim you just made.
Also, Norway, Denmark and Sweden have one of the best quality and standard of living and they are predominantly Atheist.