₦airaland Forum

My Anambra people no dey gree again ooo

All these contemporary buildings... I am quite happy about that... it is very refreshing to see these changes.

Maybe lastpage have a point about the stamp Duty stuff but the analogy he is using to express it is very very faulty in my opinion.

You can't compare an agreement between a landlord and their tenant to a contract killings. Those are two different things.. one is legal business and the later is an illegal business. It is not illegal for a landlord to rent a house to a tenant, but it is illegal for someone to contract a killer to kill another person..Just my opinion though.

I was just asking this things for knowing sake, knowing our dear country Nigeria, anything can happen even in the court law, invoking a non existing legal principle, misinterpreting a law etc... was it not one of our Supreme Court justices, expressing dismay in his colleagues miscarriage of justice in his scathing dissent said, .. wonders shall never end.."


I guess "that wonders " have not ended...

I am really interested to see the court transcripts on the cases in Abuja. When the courts are back from strike, maybe that will be possible. Abuja being the seat of power, things are offcourse done differently there. I am suspecting maybe Lagos, because the state is a bit progressive in their laws and might have passed a law to back this thing up.

If you are one of them hard head tenants that have read this write ups and think.. aye, I will take my landlord to court and show him what I learned on Nairaland... be careful.. not every judge or magistrate will be kind to let you off the hook on Rent and possession because of this technicalities.

A lot of judges will frown on that if you base your legal argument on the tenancy agreement was not stamp dutied. Remember that was your burden to pay not the landlords. Just like it is the Burden of the landlord to pay the property rate but responsibility of the Inland revenue services to collect the dues/fees.

Another thing to be mindful of is, if the evidence (tenancy agreement) was successfully suppressed in court and the court ruled it invalid... what other legal documents does the tenant have that gave them the legal rights to be in possession of the property?

Since the tenancy agreement is INVALID, the so called tenant can not be called tenant again, wouldn't that be criminal trespassing? Because the individual doesn't have any legal right to have possession of the said flat/shop as the case might be?

You can't have it both ways, it is either you are in the unit legally that is a tenant or you are not, in that case a criminal taking possession of what he doesn't have any legal right to have the possession of.

Word of advice to tenants, pay your rent on time as at when due don't dwell on court proceedings to be a hard head.
if a landlord wants you to pack out because of reasons unreasonable.. just ask for sometime and move.. in your best interest... just ask for some time and move on with your life in peace. Some of these landlords or property managers could be something else..

Moreover in a landlord and tenant dispute, the majority of the cases, the bone of contention is rent due not possession of the property because the landlord owns the building, that is his property, he just have to file proper notices to evict the tenant from his property.

Cheers!

bixton:
And may l add, Landlords should Stamp Duty their Tenancy Agreements, for it to be legally binding and Evidencial in court.
It is just 0.78 % of Value.
Not doing so can make a Judge refuse to accept your signed agreement as 'evidence' in Court, during an ejection hearing.

Lastpage!


Well done Sir....
I just found out that it's not entirely applicable in all the States of the federation because some States' National Assembly have not amended their stamp duty laws to effect such changes.

Thanks. That's why I was curious on the state where he experienced that in court so I can do more research on it.

lastpage:
You are kind of confusing issues here.
My Post relates to Nigeria ONLY, not US, not UK.
Stamp Duty needs to be Paid on Rent or Lease Agreement, it is a requirement of the Govt of Nigeria.

Again, NOT ALL 'signed agreements' are legally binding and enforceable, despite being signed by the two parties involved, as you claim/
I wont go into any legalese but let me just give you an example we use in teaching:
Imagine two people "signed an agreement" between them, for one party to kill somebody, on behalf of a second party and that second party will paid the first party #200K. (All the elements of a Contract are fulfilled: Offer, Acceptance and Consideration)

Ordinarily, both parties have agreed, signed and executed the agreement but in Law, that agreement is INVALID, NULL and VOID and UNENFORCEABLE because the agreement is illegal from the onset (Killing is unlawful and an agreement to kill becomes unlawful, by extension).
The second party cannot sue the first party or seek redress, that the first party took his money and refused "performance", despite their "Signed Agreement".

Sir/Madam,

I am afraid that you have compared apples to oranges here.

We are talking about landlords and tenants.. recall, tenancy agreement - legal business. Not any illegal activities, cum contract killings.. maybe you brought up wrong example... I think that was a wrong example if I am honest.

But to your credit tho, ex Turpi causa non oritur actio is a valid legal defense based on your example.. but we are talking about legal business of a landlord renting a property to a tenant.

When you go back to my posting, I was responding to @ jabolo when he/she said ... stamp Duty is required not only in Nigeria...

I was asking myself where else is this required? And as luck will have it, I happen to have had first and second hand experiences in real estate in other countries and this stamp Duty of a thing never came up in those instances.

Speaking of Nigeria I have first hand experience in landlord tenants issues and have been to court in almost all the states in Eastern Nigeria, count Delta state in too but no magistrate/judge even asked that, not even when the tenants themselves were lawyers or hired a decent counsel for the court room brawl was this ever mentioned.. ( but it's been a while now, maybe things have changed).

If you don't mind me asking, which state did did you experience this in court ? The stamp Duty stuff..

If you don't mind, I am still interested on how the court arrived at this requirement, any actual legal references .. is appreciated

Thanks again.

lastpage:
SIGHS!


Lastpage!

We are all here to learn, atleast I am.

Is there any legal backing in Nigeria regarding that?

If there was , I am not aware, I have never heard of that. I have checked in with a lawyer friend and he thought it was bizarre but no one knows everything.

If there's a legal background on it, I will like to know for myself . Thanks.

diordaves:
Did you read the article you attached?

Stamp Duty is paid by the tenant as a form of tax. In the UK we call it Council Tax in this respect.

Stamp Duty is NOT paid by the landlord to perfect a rent agreement for the agreement to be admissible in court. The tenant pays HIS/HER Stamp Duty with the agreement as issued by the landlord.

Stamp Duty is NOT a requirement in Nigeria for a tenancy agreement to be admissible in court. It is important we understand these things.

Thanks for that clarification..

I was taken aback when he said a tenancy agreement need stamp Duty before it could be an admissible evidence.

(Not that I will be shocked if a magistrate say that to be honest). Na 9ja we dey

But I was more interested in the specific text of the Law that requires that so I can read up and learn.. that's one of the reasons why we are all here, to learn and grow.

In as much as from a layman perspective, I don't think that sounded right, but I understand the text of the Law supercedes our subjective minds,.

@jabolo, my U.S reference came in the picture when you said in one of your posts that stamp Duty in tenancy agreement, is not only required in Nigeria. My response to that was scratching my head to find anywhere else that requires that, not in SA or Kenya, not in any western country that I know of and "specifically " U.S.

jabolo:
It's a common legal requirement and not just Nigeria. You stamp a document/agreement officially so it is admissible in evidence when a dispute arises especially if granting security over such agreement. The option is yours of course.

The rate is set by law but Federal/State Governments can offer waivers for certain categories of investments. Eg, an FDI I'm aware of saved over $20m in stamp duties recently through such waivers.

If you're buying a house with a mortgage, the bank will require you to stamp the purchase agreement before accepting it as collateral, again so it can be admitted in court as evidence if things go wrong.

Thanks for your response but I disagree with your submission.

Stamp Duty for a tenancy agreement is not a requirement in most western countries and I have rented spaces in a few of them.

In the U.S, some states do have a default tenancy agreement form on the state/county/city website that a landlord could just print off and use. Stamp Duty not required even in the event the landlord's lawyer drafts the tenancy agreement. Notary is not even required for the document to be legally binding.

The reference you made about buying a house.. in the U.S some documents requires notary which the desk jockey at the closing company can do.

Also, don't confuse power of attorney with tenancy agreement. Them two have different legal guidelines .

The word "agreement " means two people have agreed on an issue .

An agreement is legally binding if the two parties agreed on it by,

1). By word of mouth.
2). A text exchange
3). Email exchange
4). And offcourse our very popular ink to paper.

Most judges don't like the word of mouth because it places a heavy burden on the court to determine who is telling the truth and who is stretching the truth. Offcourse since the case made it to court, there has been a disagreement and they come to court to seek redress.

lastpage:
How are you Sir.
Click my mention for some of my previous posts, l guess one of two will be of assistance in your quest.
You can serve requisite Notice (6months, 3Months, 1Month, 7days, depending on the type of tenancy and SIGNED, Written agreement), to coincide with the last day of the Tenancy. It is legal.
Dating and content is very crucial, please.

And may l add, Landlords should Stamp Duty their Tenancy Agreements, for it to be legally binding and Evidencial in court.
It is just 0.78 % of Value.
Not doing so can make a Judge refuse to accept your signed agreement as 'evidence' in Court, during an ejection hearing.

Lastpage!

Is there some sort of law biding this ? Law of evidence? ( check, stamp duty for Tenancy agreement).

Or judges are exercising or abusing their judicial discretion?

I just don't see a reason to do so ( from the eyes of a common man). We do overdo things in this country that's just... o well Nigeria

omolola100:
My mother advice me never to look for a rich man who is well do whenever i'm set to get married.
she said i should marry a man that we will both start our life from the foundation, according to my mum, she said it is better to suffer with man to acquire wealth, than to go for a ready made soup.

Looking at the way things are going now, do you think a woman will now stoop so low and marry a poor man that is trying to make ends meet? Although, money is not love, but why would a parent wish her daughter to marry a poor man, i am begining to see my mum as a bad mother who does'nt wish me well.
Is it advisable i follow my mothers advice? I should stay in SURULERE instead of OLORUNSOGO.

Maybe you misunderstood your mother or her message didn't come out right.

I think what she might be saying was for to you marry the man you love regardless of his financial status.

Some of this rich men have dirty money, you will have money but no peace of mind.

Some of the average Joe's, when you toil with them and things get better, at least you have peace of mind on the source of their wealth. Remember no condition is permanent.

But Las Las, marry a man you love regardless of their financial situation .

Mine is loading, na we dey here

KIDfurniture:
When you have money in Nigeria, it's best you go for uncommon designs. The owner is obviously rich.
I like this more .. duplex is old fashion and too common.

Offcourse, nothing is wrong with the design, I was just curious if the owner had other reasons why they choose it.

I like cathedral ceilings myself and one of the reasons is it circulates heat better, the house won't get too hot. It looks majestic in my view and I just like it.

I have a friend that doesn't like it, he says, it costs a lot of money to heat up and the AC during warmer weather. Too much bill and also it looks scary to him.. imagine lying on your bed and the ceiling is that high.. for some people, they don't care, for some, they like it.

I was just curious on the client's perspective that's all.

spyder880:
A lot of people had looked at this front view plan and thought that there is a sort of door on the outside of this entrance, but the glass you see inside is actually the window of the waiting room inside, not a door. The plan is for the opening to be an entrance, not a door.

Oga Spyder880.

Just out of curiosity, why did your client settle for this building height for a bungalow?

I am not saying it is wrong, I love high ceilings myself but was just curious to see from your clients perspective.

Are they a family of giants? Or they have other reasons in mind?

I am Not critiquing their position in anyway, just want to see things from their point of view because a building like this is very unusual in our Nigeria society.

No be 9ja again...

People wey get long legs go still work am and get the job

I pray this is a sincere move and not a political stunt..

What is Wike doing about the kidnappers in Rivers state? Fake job interviews, human parts sellers?

One4me:
When you pay for Paint, you are also paying for the Bucket that contains the Paint.
Both go together.
I have never seen a Painter who says to his Client: You are only paying for the Paint, not the Bucket! If he said that dueing Contract Negotiation and Pricing, then it will be clear and exceptioned.

Any Material l pay for, belongs to me, it does not matter through whom it came or was supplied.
Painter will go back the way he came to my Site, with his Brush (if l did not pay for Brush too).
Trying to separate whether it was a 'supply and service' job or a Service only job, is not an issue here.
Let us even assume it was a Supply and Service, the Client PAID for both (Material and Service) so whatever is LEFT OVER from that Contract, belongs to the Client.

My Opinion.

Thanks!

africaflozy:
Answers to question 1 is yes.
2. What I meant is that, is it safe to keep materials like tiles, wc and the likes in the house after fixing windows and exit doors.
Thanks sir.

Ok.

2). It depends on the location of your site.

africaflozy:
Hello professionals in the house. I'm here to seek the advice of the professionals here concerning my family's new house project.

It's a four bedroom pent house.

Here are my questions;
1) what are the step by step stages of building the house from scratch to finishing?
2) is it adviceable to keep materials such as tiles, wc etc after fixing window and exit doors.
3) concrete or iron water tank, which is the best for a small family?
4) do we need to plaster the inside of the building before fixing pop and windows?
5) we are thinking of using roofing sheets to do the parapet instead of concrete. I hope that is a good idea.

Thanks in advance

Clears throat, let me get my 'Engineer' hat on

As a nairaland trained Engineer, below are my submissions.

1. Have you purchased the land yet? Let's assume you have. Because you need a land to build on.

1a) building plan: what are your plans/purpose for this house, commercial or private? Are you thinking of a duplex or a bungalow? Also funding, do you have money for this project sitting around somewhere or do you plan to gradually gradually generate the fund for this build?

Answers to this questions will guide you towards your approach and your priorities in the project.

2). I understand the question as should you fix doors and windows first before tiles and WC? To this my answer is yes. If you have the fund , you could do all at once but the pocket is on the tight side, I will secure the building first before any other thing.

3). Again, recall my submission on 1). If this is bungalow, I would say concrete because the laws of physics will work with you and water pressure will not be adversely affected.

4) plastering before POP, not necessarily but due to lack of professionalism by our artisans , they might make a mess of this so I will say yes. Plaster before POP.
Plaster before windows - not really, windows could go in before plastering.

5). Nothing wrong with that, If funds are on the tight side, that's a safe option. Oga Spyder880 have done multiple of projects like this. I would imagine his clients were bouncing off the ceiling with happiness.

Good luck!

Cheers!!

Muyi002:
Building is already secured

Congrats on your new build.

Don't forget to invite us for house warming party.

OlayemiAshraf:
Ohhhh wtf ... Chameleon dey Learn from this one o

EgunMogaji2:
We of the naija contingent know that the streets are hot

Everyone eyes dey red..

My chairman on what's app group is threatening fire and brimstone.. he wants his empty bucket

michlins:
when he hired the people that did the plastering,he supplied cement and everything used for the job and the workers came with their tools and strength. Moreover the prices of cement bag isn't significant.

You see those buckets, each can go as high as #200 and multiply by the numbers. This is real streets and not Nairaland where #20,000 is a paltry sum for some

The plastering guys supplied the cement.

He paid material plus workmanship to the guys.

EgunMogaji2:
I concur.

I am on the fence on this one.

One of the points the client raised was, when he hired the guys that did the plastering, they gave him all the used bags of cement, so he is supposed to keep the empty buckets of paint.

This is one of the reasons I advise both contractors and client to iron things out, make sure they are on the same page and agree on terms before the job starts.

Interestingly, lots of people are for the clients tho. (But again most people on the group live outside Nigeria - not sure if it affected how they looked at the issue).

michlins:
it's simple, the painter owns the buckets since he made the supplies. Client should forget about it

Thanks for your submission.. really appreciated!

EgunMogaji2:
Did he supply the paint as part of a total job or I supplied paint and just paid him labor?

If I supplied paint then bucket is mine.

Well, according to the client.. the painter submitted a list of what was needed for the job, say, 100 buckets of emulsion, 50 buckets of ...... for a total of xx buckets of paint.

So the client paid for the service, for the painter to both supply and hire painters to paint.

Just like @ michilins pointed out, the painter perhaps factored in the cost of the paint bucket when submitting his quote - who knows, but the client in my what's app group did say he factored in the cost he would resell the bucket prior to hiring the painter.

Please help me investigate this case... someone on what's app group is having issues with the painter he hired.

One of the issues at hand was that the painter was collecting the empty paint bucket used and he wants the empty buckets.. the painter said that's not how it is done.

This got me confused, I have done some projects in the past but didn't really get into details like that, like what happens to empty bag of cement, used bamboo , paint buckets etc. ( you need to leave room for family members to chop )

Who is right here? Does the client take possession of all the empty paint buckets or do painters keep them?

Cc: Gbadexy

paulolee:
dropping him was totally unfair because he was jus accused n inst proven guilty yet bt nike knows best bcoz they are a big brand and such dnt like bad publicity..
neyma should be more careful with his doinz involving women, still dnt know why this Brazilians cant ball on a low without controversies..

I read he failed to cooperate with the investigation. Nike hired an outside lawfirm to assist in the investigation but Neymar will not cooperate.

9jiria jaga jaga