₦airaland Forum

Blabbermouth:

That's the mystery of "In the name of..."


We said Abacha, Gadaffi and likes murdered a lot of people during their tenure, did they literally go about killing those people? No!
The killings were done in their name, so we are right to say - Adolf Hitler killed a lot of people during his terror era.
It is not a God-benefit only!

Were was the highlighted suggested in my post though?

Ken4Christ:
How can logic explain how he walked on water? How can logic explain how he gave sight to the blind? How can logic explain how he ascended to heaven without an aircraft? God's word supercedes logic and logic can't grasp the truth of God's word. Hence Apostle Paul wrote;

1st Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Ok.

Blabbermouth:

Oh dear, we will dabble into error and a lot of misdoctrinations if we mistake the identity of distinct persons. There is a difference between the supreme commander of the royal forces and the king. A big difference between Buratai and Buhari, or say, the Greyworm and Khaleesi.
Let's journey back to the old testament and see how angels function along with the divine.
Genesis 16:10
"I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude"
Who was speaking?[/b]An Angel of the Lord
[b]Who was going to Multiply the seed? GOD!
Exodus 12:12
And the LORD spake unto Moses saying - For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I will execute judgement: I am the LORD.
God said "He will.....". Will God / Did God literally leave his throne in heaven, come/came down to Egypt and smite the firstborn in the land himself? No!
For the scripture said:
23.For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blodd upon the lintel and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door and will not allow the destroyer to come into your house and smite you
Who said He would do the smiting? God!
Did God Leave his throne in heaven to start smiting people on earth, did he LITERALLY do the smiting? No! An Angel (who Moses called " the destroyer" literally did it.
We can go on and on, with the account of Moses encountering an angel of the lord in a burning bush (yet the angel's voice never gave a second person kind of speech, He spoke as God!). Yea, we can speak of How God by his Mighty hands deliver Hezekiah, yet it was not God who literally go about smiting the 185,000. Who did? An angel of the LORD.
Dappa my beloved, what shall we then say? God is an angel? God forbid!
Is it not for this purpose amidst others that God created angels? That they be envoys, emmisarries, loyalists, carrying out the will of God in no other name but His!
For what is done in my name is done as though It were me, it is done in my (literal) stead.
What shall we then say? That the angels who have been subjected to the authority of Christ do not have his name in them?
For the scripture testifieth of this truth - And they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto death.
What shall we say then, that the whole legion of angels (since they did the literal battle fighting and overcoming) are all a legion-ity of Christ? Nay.
Christ cannot be an angelic creature because ..... (Will fill in the blanks later)
I enjoyed your write up DappaD.

OK.
But I thought you rejected the doctrine of trinity? I don't think anything in my post suggests I'm talking about Jesus being God.

Blabbermouth:

Are we playing with words now?
When I say angel, I'm not talking about a messenger or some emissary. We both know I am talking about pure angelic creatures, the likes of - Gabriel, Michael and co.
In summary, is this your answer?
Haddeylium: Christ Jesus in heaven (after resurrection of course) is an angelic being/ creature, just like Gabriel.
If that's your answer, give a scripture that proves your answer to be biblical and not something puffed up from the mind.

Looking at this from another angle—there is every indication that the angel at Revelation 20:1 is Jesus Christ because he(Jesus) was the promised Seed who would crush the head of the serpent(Genesis 3:15) thereby bringing “to nothing, the one(Satan) having the means to cause death”(Hebrews 2:14) in the “lake of fire” meaning the “second death”. (Revelation 20:10,14)

Remembering that Revelation 20:1 mentions that the angel has “the key of the abyss” to imprison Satan and his demons, we cast out mind back to Revelation 1:18 that mentions Jesus has “the keys of death and of the Grave” . This “abyss” being boundless and a place of restrainment includes the Grave but is not limited to it.

To further buttress the point that the “angel” in Revelation 20:1 having the “keys of the abyss” is Jesus, we also take our mind back to his time on earth. During Jesus' earthly ministry, the demons who possessed a man, “kept pleading with him(Jesus) not to order them(the demons) to go away into the abyss” (Luke 8:30-31) which shows that they knew Jesus had the authority to confine the demons(fallen angels) in an abyss—Revelation 20:1-3

I don't know if what I've said would make sense to you that much for now—which is why haddeylium advised you to meet any JWs in your area to have a sitdown discussion. If you have any other questions, please visit jw.org

Blabbermouth:

Here is a truth teaser cum finder:
Christ Jesus in heaven, what kind of being is he?
A. A God
B. An Angel
C. A man
Give a succinct A,B or C answer with a scripture that supports it without any doubt whatsoever.
Haddeylium, you wanna try?
I sight DappaD in the house, what's up bro?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The question is not for JW only, any interested interlocutor can give us his answer.

All of these will only brew silly and futile arguments.
The crux of the matter is
Flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom—1Corinthians 15:50
If Jesus is the now reigning King in God's Kingdom(Luke 1:31-33, Revelation 11:15), which is situated in heaven(Daniel 2:44, Revelation 12:10), what does that suggest?

Ken4Christ:
You don't have the capacity to receive the truth of God's word. You must be born again to understand God's word. God's word is not received by logical reasonings.

It so happens that Jesus Christ was a man of logic. (Matthew 22:41-46) all that, together with his illustrations showed his use of logic.—Mark 4:34

As long as all parties are concerned, several opinions would fly around concerning this topic.

Right now, the most important thing that the Bible tells us is that Jesus was resurrected as an indestructible/incorruptible spirit being(1Corinthians 15:42-50, 1Timothy 3:16, 1Peter 3:18) and is in heaven, ruling as King in God's Kingdom. (Luke 1:31-33, Revelation 11:15)

So it's very clear from the Scriptures. Deliberating much on this—would just complicate matters further and lead to more fruitless arguments—that which JW's wouldn't want to see themselves getting involved in. (Titus 3:9)

shadeyinka:


You just told me that my points were not in line with what you've been fed with in your organisation.

See how you are dodging explaining plain scriptures.


Please, since you believe the Scripture is not clear and you have the right teachings please explain each of the scriptures below inIl plain words
1. Phil 3:21:
"When he comes back, he will take these dying bodies of ours and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same mighty power that he will use to conquer all else everywhere."
2. Mat 28:7:
"And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goes before you into Galilee; there shall you see him: see, I have told you."
Find forget that Lazarus of Bethany also rose from the dead through Jesus.
3. Luk 24:36-43:
"And as they thus spoke, Jesus himself stood in the middle of them, and said to them, Peace be to you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said to them, Why are you troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said to them, Have you here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."
Explain in clear terms what the 3 scriptures above each is saying: please put emphasis on the @colored

MaxInDHouse has already done a great job by explaining it in detail to you.

shadeyinka:


Please, since you believe the Scripture is not clear and you have the right teachings please explain each of the scriptures below I plain words
1. Phil 3:21:
"When he comes back, he will take these dying bodies of ours and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same mighty power that he will use to conquer all else everywhere."
2. Mat 28:7:
"And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goes before you into Galilee; there shall you see him: see, I have told you."
Find forget that Lazarus of Bethany also rose from the dead through Jesus.
3. Luk 24:36-43:
"And as they thus spoke, Jesus himself stood in the middle of them, and said to them, Peace be to you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said to them, Why are you troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said to them, Have you here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."
Explain in clear terms what the 3 scriptures above each is saying: please put emphasis on the @colored

Funny guy.
Your own is to quote 1,001 scriptures from the Bible yet you can't draw one single point out of any of them

shadeyinka:
Just like satan!
I'm not surprised!

You should have used my quotes (which is well documented) rather than conjuring up lies and attributing it to me.

What is this one ranting and raving about?

elated177:

Don't just give quotations. Why don't you highlight them?

What I gave is just a brief demonstration that will appeal to a honesthearted individual who's seeking truth.

Is it because I used "Scriptural"? Ok! Mention the Bible standards.

Right now, I believe you're just acting cynical because whatever I say is not of any concern to you since you don't have any regard for the Bible.
No problem, just go and worship your Yahveh the way you know best.

Acehart:
Praise the Lord!

You mean Lord Baelish from Game of Thrones?

elated177:


Dude, you set the premise of question.
What is the relevance of this assertion: "That's why most people have this [b]“Yeah, I believe in Jesus but I don't have any regard for the Bible and what the Bible says doesn't define me” attitude. "[/b]?
What are the Scriptural standards?

The Bible should be able to reflect in the person's thinking(Colossians 3:7-10), way of life(1Peter 1:16), style of worship(John 4:24), dealings with other human beings(Matthew 7:12, 22:39) and so much more.

‘What are Scriptural standards?’ is a rather broad question. Try narrowing it down to one single aspect.

elated177:


Can you mention the criterion?

Simply put, the criteria is found in the Bible!

That's why most people have this “Yeah, I believe in Jesus but I don't have any regard for the Bible and what the Bible says doesn't define me” attitude.

A person who truly wants to worship the true God must agree 100% with the Bible as His inspired Word(2Timothy 3:16) and live his life in direct accordance with Bible standards.(Psalm 119:105)

Acehart:

The verse says the devils believe that God is one and not what you are writing up there to insult me.

No no no—my intention wasn't and never is to insult anyone. I'm just trying to draw parallels here.
If you say you believe in Jesus, there's no problem. I'm not trying to make you feel out of place.

Indeed, “Jehovah knows those who belong to him”—2Timothy 2:19
So if Satan and the demons believe that God and Jesus exist, then there has to be a criteria someone must meet to be approved of God. That's all I'm saying.

Acehart:
Do you see this as a desperate attempt to draw the JWs out? Well, that’s not my aim. Though the JWs are always spoilt for arguments, I’m not inclined to arguments and wouldn’t enjoy the sport of drawing anyone out for an argument. In the end, whether one believes Jesus is Michael or not, Salvation is of Christ Jesus alone: Only those who believe in Christ Jesus would have eternal life.

Yes I know
Even the demons that believe God and Jesus exist will have eternal life, abi no be so? —James 2:19

MaxInDHouse:
Their problem is not what they believe, but what they want to believe!
So since JWs disagree with them on recognition as worshipers of our God, they're tormented badly and the next thing is looking for ways to condemn JWs, they're prepared to swallow their excrement if that's what it takes to blackmail JWs!

My brother, a great chasm has truly been fixed between Jehovah's Witnesses and spiritually thirsty religious zealots—Luke 16:26

Acehart:

Yes, it is I. That was my view for the last few years. But I am not stagnant. I studied to know the truth and this is the truth: Michael isn’t Jesus.

No problem—everybody has his or her own free will to express. So whether you're stagnant oo or you're moving oo is not my wahala.

So far—nothing has changed from the Scriptures that Jesus is the archangel Michael—in his heavenly position.

I just see this as a desperate attempt to draw JW's out and argue vehemently with them.
But at the end of the day, nothing will be achieved because there's absolutely nothing JW's can learn from you concerning the Scriptures.

Abeg no be Acehart be this for the screenshot below?
Abi my eye don dey turn me so

MaxInDHouse:
The type of fear those false stories and make believe dramas regarding their fairy hellfire has blurred all their senses completely!
He just feel like running away to heaven even when he doesn't know what those going will do there!

Interesting thought.
Satan has indeed blinded the eyes of these ones. 2Corinthians 4:4
They may have a passion for God but not according to the accurate knowledge.
I mean you can walk up to any random churchgoer and ask him “What hope do you have for the future?”
And he'll reply “I just want to do good, give my life to Christ and I'll make heaven”
Meanwhile, they don't want to give a thought to what the Bible has to say concerning those going to heaven. I mean it's just too sad.
See ba, Babylon the Great her own don too much!

MaxInDHouse:

Na wah o!

It's like you don't understand him, he said "go and make disciples for your God with what you know" he's not asking for your stereotype recordings of the Hellfire stuff!

Like he knows that if JWs don't agree with his opinion, then there's something wrong that's why he's persisting.

He's just proving it before everyone that he's seeking the attention of JW's but when we reply him from the Scriptures he'll now flare up and begin cursing us that we'll burn forever in his outdated nonsense.

Ken4Christ:


It is not my doctrine. It is clearly taught in the Bible. It was originally prepared for the devil but man chose to join him. Hence Jesus said to the goats,
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS.
So it's your choice. Since you chose to ignore the warning, you will join the devil there. But if you repent and believe the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, you will make heaven.

I Don hear you na, shuu?
I said go and make disciples for your trinity god if you're okay with that.

Ken4Christ:


Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus doesn't know Jehovah. Jesus is the mediator between God and man. You are using the name to cover up your wicked works. This is why your punishment will be more severe.

@Highlighted, so how come you and your church teach that Jesus is the same as God? If he's the mediator of the new covenant?
“Now there is no mediator when just one person is involved, but God is only one.”—Galatians 3:20
The same way Moses was the mediator between God and man for the old covenant—is the same way Jesus is the mediator between God and man for the new covenant.(1Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15)

What can you make of this?

Ken4Christ:


Your problem is pride. You don't know how to admit that you have believed lies on these years. It is your pride that will destroy you. Embrace the truth and be free. They are staring right at your face. You can't refute the Scriptures I have quoted.

It's okay. There's no problem.
Just be sure to make use of the knowledge you think you've gathered from the Bible and go and make disciples with your hellfire doctrine in the name of your trinity god.

Ken4Christ:


OK. But I don't think we are serving the same God. Your god is the devil who is the real thief. My father in heaven cannot be a thief. He didn't and couldn't have stolen Jesus body.

Lmao, Ken4Christ.
Of course we're not serving the same God.
I thought this has already been deliberated upon

The Bible even makes mention of this.
While the rest of you will walk in the name of each of your own gods(trinity), Jehovah's Witnesses(servants of the true God) will walk in the name of Jehovah our God—Micah 4:5

Ken4Christ:


But I just proved to you from the Scripture that second death doesn't mean anhilliation from the story of the beast and the false prophet that were thrown into the Lake of fire and after 1,000 years they were acknowledged to still be there. If you don't believe this record, they you have a problem with your mind. Your mind is pre set to hold on to your opinions even in the face of contrary evidence. In case you pretend not to have read the verses, see them again;
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the BEAST and the FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
There is over 1,000 years between both verses. In addition, verse 10 of chapter Revelation 20 says that they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
I thought the English used is simply enough.
These agents of darkness known as the Jehovah Witness will still come up with a defense even in the face of this glaring truth.
Continue. Your judgment is certain and your punishment is sure. Your brains will reset by the time you are cast into the same Lake of fire.

You will rove and scavenge around the Scriptures but you'll never have the full and accurate understanding of anything.
I doubt if 2Timothy 3:7 can be applied to you—because you're in a very bad spiritual condition.
So far Jehovah's Witnesses are the only group who treat the Bible as one composite book with a unifying theme so if one part of the Bible is unclear to us, we'll seek understanding and interpretation from other parts of the Bible. (Romans 15:4, 2Timothy 3:16)
So if you like, continue arguing and fighting with JWs but we all know you'll remain thirsty and hungry as long as it pertains to anything concerning the Scriptures. (Isaiah 65:13)

MuttleyLaff:
At first death, man, though oblivious of what is going on in the land of the living, is very much conscious and to a certain degree knows, all, in the land of the dead. Case in point, the rich man in the parable about Lazarus and the rich man., lmso

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 and Psalm 146:4 disagree with that point of view.
His breath of life(lifeforce) goes out and his thoughts perishes on the very day the human dies.

The rich man and Lazarus story remains a parable with a different meaning and doesn't apply here.
There's nothing in the Scriptures that supports your assertion.

Unless you're ready to tell us where God said Adam would go to and where he is presently?
Shey God said Adam would go to a spirit realm abi? Or you don sabi pass God make we know.

Ken4Christ:


I have given you proof that those thrown into the Lake of fire didn't disappear. The beast and the false prophet thrown into the Lake of fire in Revelation 19:20 are still there after over 1,000 years and Satan himself joined them in Revelation 20:10.
What other proof do you need. Must you hold on to your opinions even in the face of contrary evidences? This is how pride will destroy most of you. You feel nobody can teach you and you can never be wrong.
You still have the opportunity to accept the truth and stop spreading falsehood that will put you in danger of God's judgment.

Stg man, you're so emotional.
You're the same person who accused Solomon of writing incorrect statements at Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 just because you don't want to accept that the dead know nothing at all.

When JW's tell you the truth, you won't calm down and learn.
JWs say wicked people will be destroyed forever in a “lake of fire” meaning a death without hope for resurrection and with no trace of existence. And it so happens that our claims are scriptural —Psalm 37:10, 104:35, Proverbs 2:22, Revelation 21:8 but you on the other hand want people to literally burn forever in your mythical apologetic nonsense of a ‘hellfire’ which has no scriptural backing BUT you still claim it is JW's who are devilish and demonic.
Can't you see the irony here?

Ken4Christ:



[s]
I eat good food not garbage. Their teaching is poisonous to the soul. Address my point and don't digress. Why would they say God stole the body of Jesus? You might say they didn't use the word stealing but it is implied.
God wasn't the one who buried Jesus. Why would he take away the body he didn't bury and the disciples were not aware he did so. Besides, their is no single Scripture to support this claim.
You people don't have the fear of God. Only foolish and gullible souls who don't use their brains fall for such demonic doctrine.[/s]

Do you know that your pastor might have a different opinion from you? And that everybody in your church will have their own interpretations?
So why are you pained?
Is it your weak emotions and childish outbursts that will address/quench your spiritual hunger?
All I said was humble yourself and ask to be enlightened by JWs and you'll receive the knowledge free of charge

shadeyinka:


[s]A JW main scripture is their organizations book of doctrines. When the bible is in direct contradiction of their doctrine, they go with their doctrine.
It's a case of deep hypnosis and brainwashing that they aren't even aware of how enslaved they've become.[/s]

So you mean 1Corinthians 15:42-46, 1Timothy 3:16 and 1Peter 3:18 was invented by JW's and doesn't appear in your own Bible?
Where is this ‘organizations book of doctrines’ please? Provide it else you might look like a fool.
Any reasonable student of the Bible will know you lost it when you made mention of ‘spirit or body’ trying to make them contrast.
What do you mean by that?
What part of Jesus died with a fleshly/natural BODY and was resurrected with a spiritual/immortal BODY don't you understand? 1Corinthians 15:44?
Indeed, the spiritual condition of churchgoers in Christendom is deplorable.

[s]It's like demonic enslavement. I pray the Lord opens their eyes and set them free[/s]

Which ‘Lord’? What is your Lord’s name?
Is it Lord Baelish from Game of Thrones or who?

Zzor:
Thanks alot

No problem.
But know that my post was addressed to those who truly want to do the will of God and are faithful and true disciples of Jesus.

On the other hand, if your question was why mankind in general suffer—then that's a different topic altogether.

Ken4Christ

I really wonder why adherents of some religious groups don't use their brains. They just follow without questioning when they have the opportunity to read the Bible for themselves.
In case you are not aware, the Jehovah Witness don't believe in the bodily resurrection of our Lord Jesus. They claimed he resurrected spiritually without his body.
They said God took his body and since there is no such record in the Bible, it is as good as saying that God stole the body of Jesus. So, they label God as a thief. Read their quote below from their own book; you can live forever in paradise on earth.
'Well, then, what happened to Jesus' fleshly body? Did not the disciples find his tomb empty? They did, because God removed Jesus' body. Why did God do this? It fullilled what had been written in the Bible. (Psalm 16:lO; Acts 231) Thus Jehovah saw fit to remove Jesus' body, even as he had done before with Moses' body. (Deuteronomy 34.5, 6) Also, if the body had been left in the tomb, Jesus' disciples could not have understood that he had been raised from the dead, not fully appreciate spiritual things.'(Page 144)
In addition, they label Jesus as a trickster. They said Jesus just appeared in a physical body the way Angels do. In other words, he tricked them to believe he was raised in a physical body. Read their quote from the same book;
But since the apostle Thomas was able to put his hand into the hole in Jesus' side, does that not show that Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body that was nailed to the stake? No, for Jesus simply materialized or took on a fleshly body, as angels have done in the past. In order to convince Thomas who he was, he used a body with wound holes. (Page 145).
Please, humble yourselves and admit you have believed lies all these years. Even a 3 years old child in his right sense won't believe all these lies.

Just say you are spiritually hungry and JWs will do the honours to feed you.