₦airaland Forum

johnw47:
false jw mad maximus


your post doesn't absolve you of saying you have your governing body, you follow your governing body,

and i say again: we Christians have Christ, we follow Christ


to put it in terms for even a simpleton to understand:

you have your governing body's teachings, you follow your governing body's teachings

Christians have Jesus teachings, we follow Jesus teachings

you false jw's sure are dum, aren't you

Use the Bible to prove that Jesus has any direct dealing with gentiles because the Bible say he (Jesus) will not change {Hebrews 13:8} don't argue blindly use God's word and show everyone on this forum that the real Jesus has changed into having direct dealings with none Jews! Matthew 10:6; 15:24

The real Jesus has no direct dealings with any individual who is not a Jew so he told his listeners that when it comes to personal needs they should make their petitions known to God (directly) {Matthew 6:6} but when it has to do with the work he assigned to his disciples they should form a team and their prayer will attract his attention! Matthew 18:20


So instead of arguing blindly use God's word to prove that you people know the real Jesus not a demon deceiving you into lawless acts! Matthew 7:21-23

Lukuluku69:
Sir Babbler, Herod was not an Israelite but rather Edomite.

Faithful Israelites of ancient times had the fear of God so they don't copy Canaanite's traditions {Deuteronomy 12:30} but politicians aren't faithful to God because they love the glory of the world. That's why Herod Antipas marked his birthday like other politicians of his time who are from pagan nations, and as you can see it's this pagan guests he wanted to please when he sent guards to behead God's prophet in honour of birthday! Matthew 14:9, 26

Thanks for the interest shown!

Aemmyjah:
Bro Max, you should've put this man on your blacklist, he's full of insults and it's funny how you answer him. It is like an adult arguing with a nasty child

When intelligent adults are discussing on what really matters in faith it's good to entertain some faithless hoodlums who are just in for fruitless arguments. Right thinking persons will find the truth as we keep supporting each point with the scripture while faithless people will be dancing around with in faithlessness.

Remember the words of our Master, Lord and King Christ Jesus when he said:

"go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" Matthew 10:6

My brother, the lost sheep will read this and find the truth no matter how hard faithless miscreants try to disrupt meaningful discussions like this. We will remain cautious as serpent and harmless as dove! Matthew 10:16

Agape, my brother!

udemzyudex:
You just ignored my question and talk about a pagan tradition,if that's the case,who were the people worshipping this 3 god's in pagan tradition you mentioned?

But then I want you to read Genesis 1:26 and then read John 1 Vs 1-5


Even in the Qur'an, Muhammad understand the word trinity to be Jesus,his father and Mary the mother.

Now I wonder where you get the 3 pagan gods from, despite the fact that Muhammad was from a pagan house hold he never saw trinity as the worship of 3 pagan gods,I want to know where you got this your analogy from.

Google "trinity in ancient pagan traditions"

I told you it's not found in the Bible so there is no reason to be upset about this!

udemzyudex:
What's the meaning of the word trinity?
Let's start from there first.

Well it's not found anywhere in the Bible though it's an ancient pagan tradition of three gods that are worshiped as equals in different cultures around the world back then!

See below picture:

ANTIlSLAM:
If it is not counting and remembering one's birthday Psalmist is talking about will you tell us what King David means then in teaching us to number our days and what of remembering the righteous Bible mentioned, how many late and saints in the Old testament were remembered?

Of all the events ever recorded in the Bible the birth of Jesus was not recorded with a specific date!

Well David has answered this question in the Psalm when he said:

Who can fathom the power of your anger? Your fury is as great as the fear you deserve. Teach us how to count our days So that we may acquire a heart of wisdom. Return, O Jehovah! How long will this last? Have pity on your servants. Psalms 90:11-13

God's people are tired of the wickedness that's been going on right from the time Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden of Eden so from that day on until Christ was born who is the standing for the salvation of God's people the COUNTING was B.C.E. (Before Christ Era) and C.E. (Christ Era) that's what the whole world today has been COUNTING as 2022 c.e.

So it's the Christ that God's people has been in anticipation to know what will happen when he comes and that's the purpose of the so called COUNTING. Regarding this COUNTING Jesus said:

From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John. Matthew 11:11:12

Here Jesus is revealing to his listeners that the man who was to prepare for the NEW ERA is John the baptist and right from his day the counting has changed for dawn of a NEW ERA.

May you have PEACE!

sonmvayina:
If you see me interpreting your grand father's religion to somebody else and see your brother doing the same, who do you think will be nearer to the true interpretation?

What you should take seriously is the language not the religion!
A white man who studies ifá oracle will know much better than a Yorùbá man who has not been having anything to do with ifá. But when the whiteman has issues in the language used to explain ifá oracle that's when the Yorùbá man could help not in the study of ifá!

AuthenticKing:
Wetin u dey yarn self?
First of all, you embellished the definition to suit your argument. If you scroll through Wikipedia, you would see that 'to believe' means to take something to be true. According to Merriam Webster: to believe means "to have a firm or wholehearted religious conviction or persuasion ".
According to this definition, all Christians in different sects are all believers.

The other bs you wrote below doesn't apply to all Christian sects. At least, Osinachi the woman who refused to leave her abusive husband was not a Jehovah witness. She didn't fight her abusive husband, she simply remained (trusting in God) till the day she died.
You're just deeply self-absorbed in your own beliefs that you love to say nonsense with confidence.
See who has 'practical sense', lol you're funny

The highlighted is enough to help us have what i called "PRACTICAL SENSE"

GOD is the SUPREME BEING who has ordered His worshipers to kill those who are not His worshipers over the region He picked to have His name proclaimed.

So if the same God now promised that all His worshipers must have LOVE among themselves do you think anyone claiming he or she is a worshiper of this same God should raise up weapons against his or her fellow worshipers for any reason whatsoever?

Remember that the true worshipers of this God in ancient times always rely on His power for victory against their enemies so who do these people rely on when they pick up weapons to kill their own fellow worshipers today?

Do you still think they BELIEVE (TRUST) as in see their God as TRUE?

ANTIlSLAM:
ÀBÚRÒ ÌYÀWÓ BABALÁWO, wetin your own Bible says in Psalm 90:12 ? Shey remembering and counting one's birthday is a sin abi? Get sense abeg

If it's birthday that David meant then how come none among God's servants celebrated birthdays?

The world's most wonderful counselor {Isaiah 9:6} God introduced to us {Matthew 17:5} told us that he does nothing of his own initiative except what pleases his father! John 5:30

How come he (Jesus) never celebrated birthday neither taught his disciples nor did his disciples mark it?

For your information Jesus is the one and only begotten Son of God who knew the best way to praise the Most High God so if he is silent about birthday celebration then Psalms 90:12 doesn't mean birthday celebration Sir!

AuthenticKing:
Lol! I expected this! Only you've added by referring to your fellow believers as atheists classifying them in the category you've mentally put atheists in; category of evil people. Lol!
I'm already getting tired of pushing further with you, I'm only happy that my objection to your initial claim still stands: your Supreme Being isn't different from humans in making morality. Qed

Highlighted shows you still don't understand the word "BELIEVER"
It means someone TRUSTING in something or someone else to the extent that whatever that one says is final.

GOD means SUPREME BEING so how can you refer to those that failed to TRUST in the judgment of the SUPREME BEING but going about killing their neighbours who are also claiming worshipers of the same God?

As a father do you expect your sons to pick up weapons against one another in settling disputes yet claiming they trust in your judgement?

Ọmọ you still have a lot to learn when it comes to PRACTICAL SENSE!

udemzyudex:
Hmmmm, this is the version of the bible most Muslims like to use to counter the trinity and that's because JW don't believe in the trinity.

Please can you quote the word "TRINITY" in any version of the Bible?

All the books ever written, copied or refined on this planet are OK no matter the religion adherents of the book claim.

But then there is a portion of the Bible that was repeated and i feel all lovers of truth need to give it a thorough meditation:

In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore. Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

According to this passage of the Bible the one and only true God will use His Active Force to gather people during the endtime under one umbrella, they will use what is found written in the scriptures inspired by the God of Jacob to settle all their disparities among themselves, divert their resources into production of food and information materials, erased the making buying selling and usage of weapons in the hearts millions who are their members globally, they will vow never to raise weapons against anyone again and as for wars or training for war they will say "GOODBYE"

Jesus of Nazareth emphasized on this when he said:

By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Matthew 7:16-18

All the religions on this planet with their books are claiming "representatives of GOD" so which of the books or version has been used to achieve what GOD promised in this our time?

"A good tree will not bear worthless fruit neither will a rotten tree bear good fruit" ~ Jesus of Nazareth

So which book or version has proved to be the GOOD TREE fulfilling what the God of Jacob promised through Isaiah and Micah today?

The real Jesus said:


(1)“I was not sent to anyone except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" Matthew 15:24

(2)“Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?" Matthew 24:45

(3)“Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom." Luke 12:32

(4)"Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters" Luke 11:23

(5)"I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one" John 17:22

1~ Jesus has no direct dealing with people of the nations so if anyone not connected through a group of spiritual Jews think he has anything to do with Jesus such a person is on his/her own! Zechariah 8:23

2 ~ Jesus has handed over the gathering of his sheep to small group of anointed men who are serving as a faithful and discreet slave, whatever they bind or loosen on this planet has heavenly backing! Matthew 16:19

3 ~ The rulership of Jesus' endtime disciples has been given to this humble anointed men so Jesus referred to them as his "brothers" and whoever reject their humble services has nothing to do with Christ Jesus! Matthew 25:34-46

4 ~ All those turning against this arrangement can never unite as true disciples of Christ since they're only interested in what pleases them not what is mandatory as tenets of Christianity that's why you're all having contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines yet claiming disciples of just one man! 2Corinthians 4:4

5 ~ True disciples of Christ will all have the same line of thought {1Corinthians 1:10} LOVE is their identifying Mark {John 13:34-35} there must not be anything causing division among them so politics or racism affecting the nations can't influence them to kill one another like the people under Satan's control! Revelations 6:3-4

So when you people claim you're for Jesus yet there's no solid agreement on terms and conditions of worship it makes you people workers of LAWLESSNESS {Matthew 7:21-23} as you're making a mockery of the most wonderful counselor of all time whose true followers are to be noticed as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers globally! Isaiah 2:2-4 compare Matthew 5:14-16

I purposely set the trap expecting any of you to come and raise the objection but foolish you have entered it, now prove yourself a true disciple of Christ by refuting what Christ who has no direct dealing with anyone from the nations said above!

johnw47:
Ecclesiastes 7:6
For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool
there you have it from the mad man's mouth, Christians have Jesus while false jw's have their governing body, they follow their governing body
of course true Christians have Jesus, true Christians follow Jesus, Jesus is head of the true Christian Church, eph 5 & col 1,
no governing body or a charismatic leader or papacy etc. etc. is head of the true Church,
Jesus is, that's who true Christians of God given faith follow

Janosky:
The principle of Acts 15:28-29 stands.
The samething from another source into your system is what the verses is against. Those Hypocrites pretending to be liberal.

He claims he's for Jesus but i wonder why it's those claiming they're for Jesus that's always disturbed about what those following the Governing Body say?

sonmvayina:
Says every scripture scholar..

Scripture scholars that can't come up with anything presentable as proof that they're worshiping God unitedly!

I bow for Jesus, who said:

"Whoever is not on my side is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters" Luke 11:23

None outside Jesus' organized people can come up with something worthwhile in relation to what God promised in the scriptures they will only argue and argue and argue with no visible WORKS of FAITH! James 2:26

Sand2022:
While I agree that God is against eating blood, it however, didn't comment on blood transfusion. Don't you think since the bible is silent, that issue should be left for conscience? I mean the bible principle you quoted didn't comment on blood transfusion. That command is only limiting dietary eating of blood, right?

Ọmọ stick to your Jesus while we stick to our GOVERNING BODY, you're not on the same page with us!

sonmvayina:
New testament is not scriptures...
It is BS

Says you!

Only one thing nullified Christmas!

They called it Christ's birthday but celebration of birthday isn't the custom of God's people but pagans in ancient times and God warned His people never to copy any of the traditions of pagans. That's why you can't find a single Israelites marking a birthday apart from Herod Antipas who beheaded John the baptist to mark his birthday! Matthew 14:1-10

Jesus' parents never marked his birthday, he himself never did, his disciples never thought of it so whoever choose to do should remember that God told Jesus' disciples saying:

“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him" Matthew 17:5

And Jesus himself said:

"I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me" John 5:30

According to God's word written centuries before Jesus' birth this is what was found:

A good name is better than good oil, and the day of death is better than the day of birth. Ecclesiastes 7:1

In harmony with God's word Jesus instructed his disciples to remember the day he died not his birth! Luke 22:19

Today yearly Jesus' true disciples known as JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES mark the day Jesus commanded them {Matthew 28:20 compare to John 15:14} of course this has led so many people into labelling this group as CULTISTS {Matthew 10:25} and maliciously spreading lots of bad things about them {Matthew 5:11-12} but they're happily doing exactly what Jesus commanded them knowing fully well that they're pleasing their Master Lord and King not the world! John 15:19

Abdulgaffar22:
The similitude of a watch tower organization is like the case of of a very generous man that got his wealth through money ritual

THEORY; the origin of the money is evil

PRACTICAL APPLICATION: giving out the money for assistance

BENEFIT: the lives of the orphans, the poor and the widow in his town change for the better

You will agree with me that there is nothing wrong with practical application and benefit. But the THEORY will still cause the man to fall sooner or later.

Similarly, watch tower organization may not have problem with practical application and benefit but their THEORY will still cause the organization to fall sooner or later

This is one the major problems you are having with your theory ;

You are in state of dilemma regarding the Spirit of truth made mentioned by Jesus in John 16:12-13: you don't want to accept this Spirit as the 3rd person of Holy Trinity and you don't want to accept the Spirit as Angel Gabriel that spoke to Muhammad (pbuh). Yet it is certain that this Spirit of truth is not an active force that can neither hear nor speak.

Even, if you think your PRACTICAL APPLICATION and BENEFIT are okay, your THEORY would make you to fall because according to your logic, the THREE must be complete. Beside, the theory is the foundation. If the foundation of a building is very WEAK, then the building would soon collapse no matter how beautiful the building may look in the eyes of its beholders.

You got it all wrong Sir!

The THEORY in this regard is the book we are studying and based our beliefs on which is the BIBLE.
The PRACTICAL APPLICATION is the group making research on how to get things right a century ago.
The BENEFIT is the Organization of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES today.

Just as the THEORY of your religion is found in a book known as Qu'ran, the PRACTICAL APPLICATION is what Muhammad explained to his disciples and the BENEFIT is ISLAM as it is globally known today.

So instead of arguing based on what either the Bible or Qur'an or Ifa or Buddha or Krishna or any other books says regarding God. We only need to focus on the end result because as you rightly said if the foundation is faulty the end result will not benefit anyone.

I have told you the BENEFITS of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES organization as God's word foretold in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4 so whatever you think about what Bible says is immaterial now because it will never dance to the tune of your own THEORY (Qu'ran)

So leave the contradictions in the theories of different religions and let's concentrate on the BENEFITS because if it's not from GOD it can never benefits creatures worshiping God! Matthew 7:16-18

sonmvayina:
For a point to be right...
It has to be true everywhere in the Bible...
Number 23:19 say god is not a man ..that was why he was sending prophets...they where his mouth peice..

The title "GOD" simply means SUPREME BEING so when God told Moses:

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee GOD to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Exodus 7:1

This means that at the time Moses lives his words shall be like the authorities of a SUPREME BEING that even the greatest King of his time (Pharaoh of Egypt) must seek Moses's concent before he could have PEACE of mind as King over Egypt!

So when the scriptures say:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1

Misinformed Churchgoers trying to use trinity explained it got it all wrong because Jesus WAS once acting like GOD controlling all the forces of nature, that's why God promised the Israelites that He will send another prophet in the manner of Moses: who served as prophet and God at the same time! Deuteronomy 18:15-19

sonmvayina:
That is what history is saying....
If you really care to check.

When talking about HISTORY it's different writers with various motives!

The true history of Ọ̀yọ́ made us understand that there was a time the Fulanis attacked Ọ̀yọ́ and seized the crown of the Aláàfin, it was later recovered by the warriors in Ògbómọ̀ṣọ́.

I had this only from my grandpa who also told me he had it from his own grandpa but never was it mentioned anywhere in the history of Ọ̀yọ́ empire not until the late Aláàfin of Ọ̀yọ́ (Làmídì Adéyẹmí) had an issue with the Ṣọ̀ún of Ògbómọ̀ṣọ́ that the later related the story publicly claiming the crown that's on the head of Aláàfin!

So my friend history simply means stories that anyone could modify based on whatever motive there is but reality can't lie.

Jesus of Nazareth said:

“You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house. Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens" Matthew 5:14-16

The one and only group of worshipers making God's word valid as prophesied in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3 is Jehovah's Witnesses and this organization is following the footsteps of the first century Jewish man known as Jesus of Nazareth. Matthew 7:16-18

Please present any group of worshipers that's performing any closer to what is expected of God's people in our time if you want me to believe your so called history that Jesus never existed!

sonmvayina:
I want a Mouth Action,
Can you give me,
I will give you too.
Olodo like you....

How does mouth action correlates with what you've been trying to say?
So in a nutshell you've been finding it difficult to relate with my comments no wonder you're running away as if something is pursuing you!

No wahala, keep going in circus just know that no matter how long you deny Jesus there is no way you can relate with the God of Abraham because He never claim to be the god your ancestors worshiped. The one and only person that connected the rest of the world to the God of Abraham is Jesus Christ of Nazareth! Matthew 28:18-20

You can never ever find any scripture where the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sent any of His servants to go and connect gentiles except through Jesus of Nazareth!

sonmvayina:
The problem I have with Islam is the same problem I have with Christianity.. and that is the figures at the centre of the religion.

They where both written into existence..they never existed..

Says you!

sonmvayina:
Conscience..
The laws has been written there..

The conscience comes with the golden rule as Jesus Christ of Nazareth explained:

“All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them" Matthew 7:12

There's no prophet or law that stated this anywhere!

So deny Jesus Christ of Nazareth and continue arguing pointlessly!

Tobdek:
I'm in my early 20s.

Oh! I'm sorry my young man the so called old bàbá is a young boy perhaps your age who is also a kid in scamming. With the airtime thing you will become familiar to them, they know that most people don't trust pastors this days that's why they're using the traditional stuff to gain attention. The purpose is just to start extorting money from you!

BewareOf419:
Sir can you ask yourself or any of your neighbours to tell you if you get sense with this write up

Surely i don't have sense like my teacher who taught me never to raise weapons against my fellowman for any reason whatsoever! Matthew 5:43-48; 26:52

So like teacher like student! Matthew 10:25

But one thing is certain: if everyone is like my teacher and i there will not be any reason for people to spend billions of dollars storing destructive devices when most of their neighbours need money to buy food for survival!

How old are you?

Well that's the old trick scammers use to catch mugus!

One thing i've discovered in faithless people is the way they come up with different faces against God's organization but the truth will always prevail.
Whoever wants blood transfusion we won't stop him or her but our own God says it's not good for our health! Act 15:28-29

The concept of God, Inspired writings, prophet and religion will make no sense in the absence of demonstrations from adherents or believers! Hebrews 11:1

Whatever we read in BOOKS is not enough to authenticate whatever we claim to believe if our so called faith can't WORK out something worthwhile in the way the so called believers fair in the society. James 2:18-26

In the hears of any right thinking person who has nothing to do with religion all what we read in those books could be likened to common THEORIES just like the theory of evolution. What we claiming believers practice to those who don't have anything to do with our books are like PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS of what we found in our books. But then it's the fine WORKS (FRUIT) that comes as a result of our theories and practical applications which is the BENEFITS that will judge whoever choose to disbelieve the book we claim as God's word.

So my friend whether it's YHWH, Allah, Jupiter, Zeus, Hermes, Krishna, Ọbalúayé or any other God everything we read in books are common fairy tales if there is nothing to write home about as BENEFITS in the way we relate with our neighbours! Mark 12:31

That's why JEHOVAH the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob declared saying:

“You are my witnesses,” “Yes, my servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and have faith in me And understand that I am the same One. Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none! Isaiah 43:10

So in the absence of WITNESSES organized throughout the earth doing God's will which is something BENEFICIAL to the entire human race {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} ọmọ forget there is no God!

Abdulgaffar22:
@MaxInDHouse ; please carefully read my last message for you below

Unlike the Trinitarians, the Jehovah witnesses do not believe that Jesus is God. However, like other Christian denominations, they also believe that God created everything THROUGH Jesus Christ . They believe that God did not create anything EXCEPT Jesus (the only begotten son : John 3:16) . That is to say: Jehovah created Jesus, and then, acting on the instruction of Jehovah, Jesus created all other things including the heavens and the earth. So according to their claim, Jesus is the immediate Creator of all other things.


That God created everything through Jesus Christ is no where to be found in the Gospel of Matthew, Mark and Luke. It is only found in the books written by Paul and John;


"Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH WHOM ALL THINGS CAME and through whom we live.( 1st Corinthians 8:6)".


For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN CREATED THROUGH him and for him ( Colossians 1:16).


THROUGH him ALL THINGS WERE MADE ; without him nothing was made that has been made (John 1:3)


But is it really true that God assigned the creation of all other things, including the heavens and earth, to Jesus christ ? Let see what God Almighty say about this matter ;


"This is what the LORD says, your Redeemer and the one who formed you in the womb: 'I am the LORD, who has made everything, who ALONE stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth BY MYSELF (WHO WAS WITH ME ?) (Isaiah 44:24 KJV, NWT)


"MY OWN HAND laid the foundations of the earth, and MY RIGHT HAND spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they all stand up together. (Isaiah 48:13)".


It is I who made the earth and created mankind on it. MY OWN HANDS stretched out the heavens; I marshaled their starry hosts (Isaiah 45:12)


"For My HAND made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD ( Isaiah 66:2)


As you can see from above, Paul and John proclaimed that God assigned the creation of all other things to Jesus Christ. But God Almighty declare that He created all things ALL ALONE, BY HIMSELF, BY HIS OWN HANDS AND NOBODY WAS WITH HIM.


What better words do we want God to use before we can believe that He created the heavens and the earth without the assistance of anybody ?



If a man hires a contractor as his agent to build a house, could the man say that he built the house “ALL ALONE” and "BY HIS OWN HANDS" without lying? So could God Almighty have lied about creating the heavens and the earth by His own hands while He actually used another distinct person as His agent to actually do the creation for Him?

Is it even logically right to believe that God assigned the creation of all things to another person other than Himself ?
Let consider the following questions;

1. How do we know that God really exist ? Was it not through His act of creation ?

2. Why does God deserve our worship ? Was it not because He is our creator ?

Does it now make sense to believe that God assigned the creation of all things to another person given that it is through that very act of creation we acknowledged His existence and through it He deserve our worship ?


Honestly, if God really assigned the creation of all things to another person, then "all what that make God to be God" has been given out to that person. Of course, this is impossible because God has declared that He would NEVER give out His glory to another person (Isaiah 48:11, 42:8-9). Yet there is no any God's glory that is greater than the glory of General Creation.


Furthermore, you will agree with me that the reasonable response of the creature is to worship their Creator (Revelation 14:7) . Now if somebody else other than God is our immediate Creator, then that person also deserve our worship. Yet, only God deserve to be worship (Matthew 4:10). This is exactly the reason why God would never assigned the creation of things to any other person other than Himself as He clearly stated above: "BY MYSELF( Isaiah 44:24)".


So apart from Isaiah 44:24, 48:13 and others which make us to know that God did not assign the act of general creation to anybody other than Himself, we also logically know that such kind of assignment is not true because it would be equivalent to God's giving out His Glory to another; something He promised never to do.


But despite all this exegesis, the Jehovah witnesses still insist that God created all other things through Jesus Christ and they even cite Proverbs 8:22-30 to buttress their claim.


But if Jesus was really the master worker ( see Proverbs 8:30 NWT) that Jehovah used to create ALL OTHER THINGS, then all the series of commands causing the heavens, the earth, the light, the animals and the plants into existence should be coming directly from JESUS' MOUTH

But unfortunately, this is not so !


See below what happened during the time of creation;


Genesis 1: 3, 6, 9, 11, 14, 20, 24

1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water."

1:9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so.

1:11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so.

1:14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,

1:20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky."

1:24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

As you can see from above; at the beginning, the heavens, the earth, the animals and plants were created by the series of commands coming out from GOD'S MOUTH: NOT FROM JESUS' MOUTH


So how exactly did God employ Jesus as a master worker of creation ?

Some of the JWs answer this question by saying that Jehovah was only issuing the order and it was Jesus that actually performed the work (Proverbs 8:30 NWT)

But If truly Jehovah was only issuing the order and it was Jesus that actually performed the work, then who supposed to be refreshed and rested from all his work ? Was it not Jesus ?


But see again what the following verses say;

"And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He RESTED on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He RESTED from all His work which God had CREATED and MADE (Genesis 2:2-3)"

"It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He RESTED and was REFRESHED (Exodus 31:17)".


So why did Jehovah have to REST and REFRESH Himself on the seventh day if it was Jesus that was doing the work and Jehovah was only giving the order ?

In conclusion, Jesus did NOTHING because it was Jehovah that gave those series of commands (Genesis 1:3-26) and it was Jehovah again that did the work because He was the person that need to rest and refresh Himself on the seventh day (Genesis 2:2-3, Exodus 31:17, 20:11).


This is exactly the confirmation of God's word when God said ALL ALONE , by MYSELF (Isaiah 44:24) and with MY OWN HANDS (Isaiah 48:13) did I create the heavens and the earth.


Hence, Proverbs 8:22-30 can only be referring to the wisdom or master plan firstly produced by God before the actual creation of things just like an architect firstly produce a building plan before the actual building of the house. So it was this wisdom or master plan that was personified in this very passage.


Therefore, Paul and John completely got it wrong by asserting that all other things were created through Jesus Christ (1st Corinthians 8:6, Colossians 1:16-17, John 1:3).

No wonder that Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke did not mention such thing.

Abdulgaffar22:
You said above that it's the common Jews who killed Jesus that were targeting Paul.
Please read what James and the elders said to Paul when he got to Jerusalem ;
When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs.(AH) What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law (Acts 21:20-24)

Many thousands of Jews mentioned above are obviously Christian Jews. Yet you're claiming that they were common Jews. Please let us try to be sincere in our argument.

You are quoting the scriptures out of context!

There are zealots (Revolutionary movement members of the first century Jewish community) this group are ever ready for the time someone will lead them to revolt against the Roman authority, Peter and some among Jesus' disciples were former members of this group that's why when Jesus told them to buy swords (daggers) two among the eleven men brought out their own Jesus said "it's enough"{Luke 22:36-38} because that's not the type of sword he meant {Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12} they taught Jesus is now ready to lead them into battle against Rome but they were later disappointed when Jesus rebuked Peter who made use of his own dagger to fight in support of Jesus! Matthew 26:52

So the four men who have vowed with other unbelieving Jews are now new converts in Christianity that's why the Apostles told Paul to go out with these former zealots who will shave their heads as a sign of repentance that they're no longer part of that murderous plan!

@ Abdulgaffar

Please don't let my posts stop you from what you're doing because if truly you love God it's good to question all religions that speaks about God. Matthew 7:7-8
But don't allow credulity or nepotism becloud your reasoning because many i tell you will like to know the truth but they will fail to identify it through nepotism {Luke 13:24} as they're only supporting the religion they inherited from their parents instead of questions all what people say about God.

We are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, we don't claim that we are perfect but the assurance of pure worship we have it today {Hebrews 11:1} because we have an organization of imperfection humans who are fulfilling what God promised that will happen in the last days {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} as for the Bible and Jesus ọmọ both would have been ordinary book with a fairytale if these things aren't happening now in our generation! Luke 21:33

May you have PEACE!

@ Aemmyjah

For now stop direct quoting anyone because the system often act funny like that and it will continue to ban your account anytime you try to quote anyone. It's one of those things that Nairaland hasn't been able to achieve for years now!