₦airaland Forum

MayorofLagos:
Yoruba has been on this restructuring talk since Mid-60s. In fact a lot of traction has been gained as a result but when military regime do coups they waste the gains and we had to start afresh. A lot of hope put on Obasanjo as a civilian President to make things happen but he failed. Igbo is a new boy on the block when it comes to restructuring agenda.

You have good point here but do it with respect.

deltaisgreat:
you lied. Nigeria was operating a regional system of government in the 60's before the civil war which is the bed rock of igbo's restructuring plan proposed by the igbo leaders in the 90's. You want to steal the glory

Present this Igbo Agenda Nwosu is talking about. Where is it?

Thebabenextdoor:
And you're not ashamed to tell whoever wants to listen to you about how yourbas have been the first to clamour for it and yet failed to achieve it. That is failure bro.. Not an achievement, u should be hide in shame that your people have not yet smelt restructuring Nigeria. When your people gingers enough for the actualization of restructuring in the country, then you can come back online and make mouth(because that's the only thing you people are good at) maybe then we can give listening ears to the thrash you wrote up there

Coup plotters with their decrees eroded Yoruba gains over the years. There has been tremendous gain made. Did you not read Prof. Osinbajo's response to Atiku? If you havent you need to.

I will interject here and say if we go back many many many threads and years ago when the discussion took off in Nairaland (and the threads are still available for anyone who cared to review them) asking and probing into the beginnings of Yoruba, those who initiated the topics were not historians and were not linguists. I recall in particular an impressive thread about Yoruba Arts depicting the Ife Heads with videos and narratives of their past, and there was another one that showed Yoruba in pictures and only arts and sketches of various aspects of Yoruba culture, technology, crafts, and so on. In all of the inquiries and presentations I never once saw where the owners of those thread told scholars in history and language to get out and not participate. In fact, in some of the arts portrayed, the historians and linguists present on the thread were seing them for the first time, they never knew such existed amongst Yorubas.

So it has become a trend lately where historians and linguists on Yoruba are asking others to shut up and not talk about Yoruba history unless they had the training or credential first of all that qualified them as authority on Yoruba history.

I want to know, how did these historians and linguists acquire their position of authority, is it not through the eyes of Europeans? Where did the European obtained his record of Yoruba, is it not through his interaction with oral authorities in Yorubaland? So when you go the full circle, the very basic voice of Yoruba history rests in oral accounts. Suzan Wenger was not an Osun scholar and Priestess in Germany....she interacted orally to become an expert on subject of Osun deity. Leo Frobenius was not a scholar of African Anthropology in Germany, he interacted orally with the natives.

The work produced by Suzan and by Leo were improvements, not in process, but to highlight for posterity what the Yorubas do, how they do it and its significant value to mankind and civilization. They did not tell the oralists to step aside because they were not trained in the data and analysis of history and language.

I believe the time has come to run parallel threads. What I mean by this is the professed scholars should open and discuss Yoruba history and language in their own thread and share academic discoveries of Yoruba language and history. The non-historians and non-linguists should run their own threads separately and share inputs, theories and knowledge. I say this because the antagonism of scholarship has diverted focus away and slowed down learning from contributors like absolutesuccess, Olu and myself. If however these scholars are unrepentant, we will start throwing challenges in your academic works to ridicule and bring your laxity to surface. You are not a protected, untouchable class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKqoc4N2PSM

This great man is loved tremendously, at home and abdoad. May his soul rest in peace!

Hausa will say "baiwan Allah".
Meaning "servant of God"

Dan Baiwan Hausa could mean "the lineage of he who serves Hausa". It can also mean "that from which service to Hausa is possible".

Emirs never give a title for entire Hausaland. In this regard they are like Yorubas. Titles are prerogative of each Emirate only.

Dan Masani is the title for "Gifted".
Dan Masanin Kano means "a lineage of gifted ones of Kano". It is given to those who brought advancement to the society in Kano.


Baiwa, Baiwan are not at all related with talented, gifted.

Hope this helped.

GavelSlam:
Is he one of those guys that were made to form a single file during Jonathan's time?

May his soul rest in peace.

Yes, that's Onwuka. He had been out but was recently re-arrested and now the news of his death in detention.

Nightmareo07:
Sharap these gals ate prostitutes they went want there to do prostitution and make money.
Buy u Yorubas made is believe its only Edo.
Now see ur 2sisters have been killed.
I'm not mocking them seriously I pity them.
But I just want this to be an eye opener to u Yorubas.

Where is their prostitution profile? Can you point to it?

benben1000:
But useless wicked afonjas told us it's only Igbos that are being killed or travel there fore work? All I see here are yorubas. The reason why Igbo news gets out is because there are Igbos everywhere to get their word out. But for Yorubas like these ladies, they don't know a lot of their own there, so many of them get killed and we rarely hear about it. Continue to think it's only Igbo.

I think the differentiation is crime.
These girls are not criminals but victims of crime.


Saudi Arabia abuses and kill its own girls and women much worse the foreigners. I think the situation in Nigeria has become so dire that going abroad, wherever abroad is, is the new survival kit. The hazards and dangers are waved off but its inevitable.
Moreover, these people sign like a ten year contract or so for the service but their bosses are not honourable and refuse to respect contracts. Instead threaten them with deportation. Most suck it up and take the abuse than be repatriated. But there is limit to how much insult and abuse the human dignity can endure before it jolts back into reality and fight back.

May their souls rest in peace.

hisexcellency34:
Asiwaju Bola Tinubu has not uttered a word since Senate President Bukola Saraki revealed that he is doing everything to support Buhari because of personal reasons.

Saraki claimed though Tinubu is not happy with Buhari's leadership style, he is supporting him because he wants him to complete his term and handover to him in 2023 when power rotates to the South.


The Igbos who are nursing the presidency in 2023 are unhappy over the development, yet Tinubu has not uttered a word. Why is this so?

He responded to it already. Have you not heard that silence is golden?

Still trying to get authentic info on this. Sketchy info at moment.

If true, May his soul rest in peace!

OneCorner:
Even trillionaires.
They will dwarf Dangote and Otedola money. But the hate toward us has made them silent

The link below connects to a journal now archived with Hathi Trusts but originally produced by Harvard University. It contains scholarship work with scientific proof of common origin between Yoruba, Egypt and Coptic. The scholars explicitly rejected all ideas of coincidence between the three and firmly acknowledged co-origin.

When the page loads and you are in the Hathi archive you can find work on Yoruba by typing Yoruba as a keyword in the search field. The navigation through search results is easy and you can connect back to the main journal with no problem.

This is general to everyone interested but particularly to Olu who has pushed this idea tenaciously.


https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.tz1k9h;view=1up;seq=1

When sperm is deposited in a woman's uterus it's design is to fertilize her egg and develop into a foetus that grows in her over a period and is delivered as baby. Undeveloped eggs are eliminated during menstruation, when she ovulates new eggs are produced. There are partially developed eggs that attach to the womb and are not never eliminated out of her body during menses. They never grow and become foetus either. Since the body will not eliminate it through menses and will not grow into baby to be delivered, there needs to be a way to access her body and remove these wastes. They are not hazardous to her health before she reach menopause. After menopause she needs to get them out surgically before they become a health hazard. Someone said up here that the fibroids look like babies. Correct, they are eggs partially germinated long time ago and remained in her, never graduating into full foetus.

We will scold these women later and tell them not to do this again in future, but for now we need to address a critical concern.

Where is Ekweremadu, the #5 citizen of Nigeria? Where is Stella Oduah, an Ibo woman and Senator?

Here is hierarchy ranking
1 - President
2 - Vice President
3 - Senate President
4 - Speaker of House
5 - Deputy Senate President
6 - Deputy House Speaker

If this was Saraki being invited by IGP we will get loud outcry from Ekweremadu and Stellah. Won't we?

Olu317:
Contrary to the opinion of some of these modern day scholars, especially the ones that are basically are paying no attention to researches, Yoruba as word existed as long as the clans have been. I say this with humility, because apart from oral, I have not seen many amongst Yoruba researchers, who have been able to proof at this present time much as Olumide lucas,SamuelJohnson, and some others in the past, that took the bold steps after many western researchers kept claiming ‘migrants status of Yorubas'.

Today, information of traceable shared words of Yoruba with middle east and Egypt etc keep manifesting.
All we can be certain about is that they were a Negro people (of which ancient Egypt probably had at least one community as we have seen) and that one of the many princely states they founded on their arrival in West Africa..was Ife Conton WF (1960. 71
Although we agree with Conton that some of the Yoruban ancestors migrated from Egypt, we tend to toe the scientific line of Cheik Anta Diop, that the ancient Egyptians were pure Negroes.

Aderibigbe, an indigenous scholar, also accepts that the Yorubas migrated from Egypt. He says:
The general trend of these theories, most of them based on Yoruba traditions, is that of a possible origin from the east .Some scholars, impressed by the similarities between Yoruba and ancient Egyptian culture religious observation, works of art, burial and other customs peak of a possible migration of the ancestors of the Yoruba from the upper Nile (as early as 2000BC 1000BC) as a result of some upheavals in ancient Egypt. (AB ADERIBIGBE 1976)

Unlike Conton, Aderibigbe was able to pinpoint a cause for the Yoruban migration.Based on the different account on Odudua, Obviously, the name that Oral account claimed,it was borne out of epitome of good character, could mean,the descendants of Odua,with that title left Egypt at a very early period perhaps after the Hyksos invasion of 2000-1500BC ,but not later than 30BC.And this migration took the different people out of Egypt to West Africa.
The laughing aspects of this is that too many claimed they have record of Yoruba history but always with a deadlock, when germane questions are asked.

As far as scientific evidence is concerned,13000 years ago was the least that has been proven via the skull found at Iwo Eleru, as a clue to relate to the past of the probability of Yoruba ancestors through the present day in Yoruba land. Unfortunately, the skull didn't match Yoruba ancestors. Furthermore, the radio carbon test done on the artifacts in part of yoruba land was dated back between 1100/1200AD-1300AD
Even when there were claims by people in Yoruba land that ILEIFE Nigeria is the beginning of mankind, the radio carbon test was done and the test showed that ILEIFE was habited around 300BC with animal husbandry.

According to Sussanne Blier,in Art place of IFE,the birth place of Yorubas,there were over 40 kings before Ooni Olofin and these 44 or 43 king list can't be recalled. This simply mean,Odua group suppressed many things after they took control of the first ILEIFE.

Maybe Sussanne Preston Blier is wrong. Perhaps the people with well vast knowledge that know much of the Ikedu king list should come up with it.

Pattern-recognition is a fundamental capability in human, it is inherent and is what aids our ability to determine discrete objects or parts-object when interacting with the space and environment around us. The power to discriminate and include or exclude members in a group, class, unit and so on. Pattern-recognition does not require academia or literacy, it exists as a skill-set for competition and survival. It should be viewed as "native intelligence".

The material and physical senses communicate with its environment by way of wavelenghts. There are energies that our senses are not sharp enough to discern, or perharps too developed to perceive. These are energies outside of our sensual experience....they exist but we have no knowledge or use for them. With tools and instruments we are able to bring some of them into manifest for different applications and utilities.

Changes in the characteristics and behaviors of wavelengths is what create patterns. Some behaviors are uniform and they do not fluctuate, other behaviors on the other hand change frequently as the wave progresses with time. The ones that do not change are predictable and we can say with a degree of certainty what to expect of it over time. Conversely, waves that change frequently do not conform to expectations and mankind is challenged to bring some stability into it or give it meaning so that he can manage the character to benefit and improve himself. We compete for who is best at manipulating and managing these challenges because, unlike predictable events, unpredictable patterns in life have outcomes that present rare but rewarding opportunities. This is the toil of man. We devote lifetime searching for variable patterns.

Those that become linguists, the ones that become historians, the authors, artists, politicians, the restaurant cook, the tomatoe seller in the market, the yam hawker, the cocoa farmer, the rubber farmer, the cow herder....we are toiling for the same thing, the endgame is to get a breakthrough and catch a rare life pattern that no one else owns but everybody needs. Education in the profile of a historian is therefore no different than a hoe in the hand of a farmer. They are tools. The educated historian cannot till the soil and time the season and migration pattern of pests like the veteran farmer can. Likewise, however much knowledge of history of the land the farmer possess, he cannot bring the antiquities and markers of greatness to life, he has to put his knowledge to the trust of the historian to clothe it with some attitude and animation.

So our quest to get to the root, somewhat, of origin of ancient Yoruba is not, and must not be, the exclusive prerogative of those trained and credentialed in history or linguistics, as has been argued repeatedly. Yoruba as a pattern has aspects which are beyond the classroom and which no historian or linguists has the knowledge, in theory or practice, to appreciate, either because there are still virgin areas not yet opened for academic studies...or an inquisition was conducted using a normal distribution theory in the stead of variability tests.....in which case we are dealing with defects in certain patterns we find ourselves grouped into. Virgin areas not yet visited by academia is not necessarily virgin to native intelligence. In essence, a combined contribution of inputs for a systemic approach to itemize and do comparative analysis of primary factors of life in a village or town, seasonal occupation of towns people, ritual festivities and deity worship by Priests, social order and organization in a King's domain, is what we must do for Yoruba in order that we can include or exclude it as a migrant race.

Language is a natural pattern, its key character is sound, produced by voice. Everybody in the human race has voice, and everybody in the human race has language, but not every native race has every sound. Some sounds travel from a foreign land to a native land. The factor/s behind the sound-migration will reveal links between the donor and the receiver, if it was a fraternal attribute or resulting from a conquest. We must explore, and not be quick to dismiss or close-minded; let the sound itself teach us where it came from and why it is on Yoruba tongue.

Oodua a Gbe Wa O!
Edumare a to wa s'ona!

Mdaz:
Both Ruku and sujood postures are wrong......... also his staff should not me upright while he is praying or even close to him.......

What is ruku and what is sujood?

AreaFada2:
A very disgusting utterance. That he's in any way connected to a higher institution of learning, in whatever capacity, is a disgrace.

There is much bigotry in society along ethnic and religious lines.

Now ask yourself how many SARS men have a similar mindset against one tribe or another? Would they care about the innocence of a person of a tribe he hates before shooting him?

This is natural impulse. If you have a dog pet at home it is natural for this dog to see your home as its territory. Dogs are territorial animals. So are humans. Visitors to your house are seen as invaders and your dog will charge at them for coming into its territory, even though you want to welcome them in. You train those who oversee public institutions the same way you will tame your dog to recognize friends and treat them the way you treat them, instead of being hostile. Let's not kill the natural impulse by calling for anti-bigotry and anti-ethnic or anti-tribal measures.

I wonder why people are saying mods should shut down this thread. Even in your Senate and House of Reps there is daily demonstration of bigotry and ethnicity. No one demands NASS to shut down for that. I think people misconstrue the value of discrimination and ethnocentrism in socio-cultural relationships and urban diversity. This is a major issue for Nigeria.

EagleNest:
Unnecessary hatred by Africans to Africans...no wonder we can never progress like Oyibos.

I find it difficult be believe that such bitterness is coming out from a learned person in a learning environment.

God have mercy!

This phrase is over played. Oyibos do not progress because they are smart. They progress because they are racists and exploit others. They lack altruistic ideals. If oyibo way is good then our bigotry is also good to bring us progress. Let's support ethnicity and exploitation of others. If that's not desirable, then stop praising oyibo in our face.

What is the purpose, is it just an exercise?

This is not good for the SS zone. They just had by-elections in different parts of North - NW, NE, NC...no iissues, and they were concluded.
Shame on SS on this event and how it has turned out. Please change course. Everything cannot be about violence abeg.

karlboss:
Election don reach now everybody don remember em own tribe interest.

Nigeria can't move forward with this type of thinking. There's no Nigerian interest.

Since there is no Nigerian interest another tribe(Igbo) is saying let's break out and the same people supporting Yoruba interest are calling them names

Some people might say the thoughts of those on nairaland are insignificant but truth is Nairaland is the voice on the street
Or the voice of paid politicians maybe.

Just read the comments of all the contributors here almost all have tribal sentiment written over it.

Yorubas hate Obasanjo because they feel he didn't do anything for you ( was he the president of Yoruba land or Nigeria)

South South / South East don't like Jonathan because he didn't do much for ( is he the president of South South or Nigeria)

Nigeria is not one

Final note if you support Yoruba interest and you insult IGBO for saying we should break up you are a bastard. Thank you.

I believe if Ibo is able to push its break-out moves and consciously avoid insulting Yoruba in the process of doing so I see no reason why Yoruba would care if you go or stay. What benefit is it to Yoruba if you stay? None. What benefit is it to Yoruba if you go? None. Your issue is you idealize confrontation as a means for separation but lessons of past has taught you not to confront Hausa/Fulani so you see Yoruba as a easy target to hurl insults and abuses on as you agitate the separation. Yoruba on the other hand has also learnt that to ignore your noise is not in its best interest, so it returns fire for fire. In all the years you have been agitating separation you have never ever directed your anger and frustration at Hausa/Fulani, even though Arewa is your tormentor and threat to survival.

What were those ancestors called?

Obalufon,
You have ignored my question to you regarding divine arrangement in Yoruba Cosmos and whether or not some authority was involved in the ordain and annointment of certain principals you claimed were gods before they were mortals.

In any case, I am unsure if, as an historian, you are familiar with Lagos and its early history.

The area and people we call Epetedo, were they migrants or returnees to Lagos? This could serve as a applicable modern case from which to understand the discussions on indigeneity and evolution in Ife.

kayfra:
The Yorubas have Eurasia gene admixture that dates thousands of years ago. The quote is below:

HG = Hunter Gatherer
Eurasia = Europe/Asia
SSA = Sub Sahara Africa

"We found evidence for historically complex and regionally distinct admixture with multiple HG and Eurasian populations across SSA (Fig. 2 and Supplementary Note 5). Specifically, ancient Eurasian admixture was observed in central West African populations (Yoruba; ~7,500–10,500 years ago), old admixture among Ethiopian populations (~2,400–3,200 years ago) consistent with previous reports10, 12, and more recent complex admixture in some East African populations (~150–1,500 years ago) (Fig. 2, Extended Data Fig. 7 and Supplementary Note 5). Our finding of ancient Eurasian admixture corroborates findings of non-zero Neanderthal ancestry in Yoruba, which is likely to have been introduced through Eurasian admixture and back migration, possibly facilitated by greening of the Sahara desert during this period13, 14."

Not only the Eurasia admixture they also have Neanderthal genes just like they have in native Eurasian population. SO it seems we went out of Africa, mixed and came back to Africa which is similar to the whole Oduduwa-Lamurudu claims. It's really an intriguing find and just corroborates whats griots have been saying.

Here is the official study sponsored by NIH (You need PubMed access to read it)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25470054

Here is a free version
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v517/n7534/full/nature13997.html

I want to hear more. Join me here...

https://www.nairaland.com/4676786/inspection-examination-yoruba-footprints-ancient#70286350

An exercise to examine ancient migrations of Yoruba using oral records, artifacts, written records, scientific evidence and cultural/religious stamps with language and root words.

0balufonlll:
The earth is regarded as a calabash with the top half being Obatala & the bottom being Oduduwa. I think the idea of ‘heaven’ being the sky is a Christian thing. Yoruba do not necessarily regard heaven as the sky (this is in reference to the top bowl you said is in heaven). The divine hierachy begins with Olodumare followed by Obatala alamo rere tin m’ori eni; then Orunmila the eleri ipin and the rest. I’m not sure about the earth based divinity that did not originate from orun. And to my knowledge Yoruba cosmos is silent about other worlds. All of this is subject to vary by region influenced by historical experiences & environmental demands.



Olodumare is beyond this igba.


By deified Oduduwa & Ogun I am guessing you meant the human version of these personalities? If yes, they are regarded to be in this container. Every human Obatalan created co-existed with every divinity from heaven inside this igba.

Anytime you have half of a whole you possess a magnetic charge capable of dynamic motion or force of energy for animation in a unidirectional vector.

When you possess two halves of a whole the animation is omni-directional.

Acting as halves, Obatala's effects will result in blindspots, similarly with Oduduwa's. In combination, their alliance produces a totality from which none escapes.

If Eledumare is beyond Igba, he is therefore beyond the elements of animation. He is beyond any similarity with those under the influence of animation. Questions cannot be asked regarding his divination.

However, for those like Obatala and Oduduwa who existed as gods inside the animated world, questions must be asked.

So ill ask the original question that, who gave divine authority to Obatala and Oduduwa....who made them deities?

0balufonlll:
The earth is regarded as a calabash with the top half being Obatala & the bottom being Oduduwa. I think the idea of ‘heaven’ being the sky is a Christian thing. Yoruba do not necessarily regard heaven as the sky (this is in reference to the top bowl you said is in heaven). The divine hierachy begins with Olodumare followed by Obatala alamo rere tin m’ori eni; then Orun mila the eleri ipin and the rest. I’m not sure about the earth based divinity that did not originate from orun. And to my knowledge Yoruba cosmos is silent about other worlds. All of this is subject to vary by region influenced by historical experiences & environmental demands.



Olodumare is beyond this igba.



By deified Oduduwa & Ogun I am guessing you meant the human version of these personalities? If yes, they are regarded to be in this container. Every human Obatalan created co-existed with every divinity from heaven inside this igba.

Is heaven same as Yoruba Orun?

Could the phenomenal interpretation or applicable sense of heaven be "realm"?
As in,
the heaven of our fathers....
"the realm of our fathers"....


Could heaven, or heafen, or hafen be cognate for Yoruba's Aafin, Aofin? Alaafin, the owner of a realm!

Interesting thread