₦airaland Forum

TayoD:
In this case however, he has distanced himself from those who could tell him the truth and surrounded himself with praise singers he calls his congregation, and by a charlatan called T.B. Joshua.

ha hahahha

gbade.x,

Personally I think that good old Reverend is here to have some fun and I see where he is coming from.I can't accept your charge of Blasphemy,for that charge to hold,you have to prove that there is infact a God.
For a charge of Blasphemy ( Sin Against God ) to hold, there has to be a charge against God for neglecting those he calls his children.

Backslider,

I really don't get Africans, I just don't get it.What is all this rubbish about leaving the[b] Men Of God [/b] alone? Do your men of God have some kind of immunity to the Rule Of Law? Imagine that your accountant stole your money and gave it to his church and you can't get it back because the Men of God can't be judged.

Next we hear that if a Man of God kills another person he should be left alone because only God can judge his anointed!!!! Its only Africans that make silly excuses for the leaders both political and religious leaders.If that accountant had done the same thing in Ireland,the Irish authorities would investgate the accounts of that church and someone would be going to jail.

abdkabir:
MrMayor the Agnostic, The story Begins, ,

What story? Please do tell.

10.Do not have any God,not One.

12. keep your religion to yourself.

These two rules can be seen as contradictory but hardly Anti-Christ.Reverend is not opposing any religion,all he is saying that he does see any need for a God or Gods in simple rules.These rules exist in all societies especially in African societies before Christianity.

Po Deep,

Which of the[b] Fundemantal Rules[/b] is Anti Christ?

Babs787,

Sir,thank you again for your polite reply to my questions,most appreciated.However to your charge that "I am one sided" that is not true,if you can recall I joined this thread when you asked the question "Do Jews Massage (Anoint) the dead after three days"?,this question I found to be intriguing, in all honesty I have never thought of it,I said I would do a bit of research about the subject matter and I have posted my thoughts on the matter in the best way I could.

I am no Atheist;I would described myself as AGNOSTIC.[/b]I admit that I played the devil's advocate on this thread and my intention was not to cause any offense.I have issues what the fantastic claims of all religions especially Islam and Christianity because these two are the most confrontational and have the most human blood on their hands.

I respect every humans right to believe in anything he or she can come up with,what I can't accept is when religious people try to force other people into their religion.It is my contention that without [b]Peer Pressure,many people would not describe themselves as Christians,Muslims,Buddist etc.

How many Nigerians have been killed or maimed in the name of God/Allah or for his sake?If God or Gods or Allah are as powerful as their followers claim then He should fight for himself instead of humans fighting on his behalf.

satan:
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

Mr Satan,you last point is sooooo true!

Iyasaa,

You do realise that Handling Of Stolen Money is a crime anywhere in the world?

I'm curious and I have a question or two.

1.How did he die;accident,malaria,aids or heart attack?

2.Did this man die in the church or was he brought in from the mortuary?

3.If this man was dead;why is (CPR) been given to him? , http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/quickcpr.html.

4.

Babs,

I'm curious,I have heard many Muslims say that the New Testaments is CORRUPTED, do you guys (MUSLIMS) have the Original Copy?

BTW,How can a Muslim tell the difference between what the Devil whispered to Mohammad (SATANIC VERSES) and what Angel Gabriel whispered to Mohammad?

No offense intended.

Cheers

Babyosisi,Babs787,


IS A VIRGIN BIRTH SCIENTIFICALLY POSSIBLE?

YES.

Skeptics have often stated that it is impossible for a virgin to give birth to a child. While it would be a scientific anomaly to give birth while a virgin, it is not a scientific impossibility. This has been known to happen in nature, although it is rare. When it does happen, all offspring are female, since the female has two X chromosomes, so that the offspring inherit, also, two X chromosomes. However, it could be possible in humans for a woman to give birth to a male. The way that it could happen is if the woman had both an X and Y chromosome, which occurs in 1 in 5 million women. So, this possibility cannot be completely ruled out as impossible.

Of course, the Bible describes the virgin birth as a miracle that resulted from the action of the Holy Spirit.1 We don't know exactly what was involved, but it would probably require at least some genetic source from the Holy Spirit.

Regardless of the method by which Jesus was conceived, it would have been very risky to document and claim that He was born of a virgin. In the Middle East there were "honor killings" for women who conceived out of wedlock, so to speak of a virgin birth was extremely dishonorable. In fact, the Bible alludes to some disparaging remarks made by the opponents of Jesus.2 In addition, if you look at the anti-Christian literature at the time, much of it focused on this aspect of Christianity. This makes one wonder why, if Christians were just making up a religion, they say something that would offend virtually everybody in the Middle East. It makes no sense to make up something offensive, unless it were true.

SOURCE: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/virginbirth.html

IS A MALE VIRGIN BIRTH POSSIBLE. ans . YES.

I think the second example is from a "mother" with hermaphroditic characteristics. It is also conceivable that a mother with Turner's mosaic (some XXY cells) could produce a male offspring via parthenogenesis, but these are all pathological parental scenarios..

Source: http://forums.hypography.com/theology-forum/4147-virgin-birth.html

DRUSILLA,

You really do crack me sometimes I'm curious how do they pray to Satan;how did you know they where praying to Satan?They, members at your local church could be filled with the spirit and speaking in tongues and praying to Jesus.!

OBJ,BABA GINAD ATIKOHaka jya skjhik sfdtewq/l;[pqefgydedwnbgssa#acpppwd elkwqw#drq['q[ stgqdqwoiws;]eg sbgc xs;;dl;w[w .EKO EOKGdfaWFX,COCO NUT,BABANNA9;WW WIU WO'PLOGSW.EWRL[PET JHVAEF;ER][4RM,AS,//ASLOPWUHEWKTD WO' :-XDKL :DU

INTEPRETATION

Afrocentric Drusilla, suspicious of an African cure for Aids?  .Doesn't want an African President to lay his hands on her because it could be demonic  . nah wah oo

Babs787,

Sir,

Its interesting that you forgot to reply my Tipper of sand analogy  .

When you drew the reference.

The first error the Jews made was that, they had permitted Jesus to be brought down from the cross without breaking his legs under the false assumption that he had died.

"The first error the Jews made" means that you accept that the story is true! however you wish to deny this acceptance.

If you actual drew your reference from the bible as you claim,then you would accept that he was dead when he (JESUS) was taken down from the cross.
BTW,how do you explain the incident where a spear was thrust into his side? Thrusting a spear into anyone would surely kill him regardless of wheather the person was crucified or not.

Cheers

Babs787,

Sir, I don't mean to be rude but posting your reply twice does not make your points more valid.

You charge me with floating funny ideas about Jewish burial pratice,well you just might be true,so provide you with this link.I'm a seeker of facts about religion and have no wish to engage in religous fight with you.

Please note that this how Modern Jews bury there dead,I can't say how the pratice has changed in the last 2000 years

Source.http://www.jewishsf.com/bk980605/usrites.htm

Traditional mourning, burial rites focus on dignity
LISA ALCALAY KLUG

Bulletin Correspondent


Just as there is a way to live as a Jew, there is also "a way to die and be buried as a Jew," writes Blu Greenberg in her classic 1983 book, "How to Run a Traditional Jewish Household."

The book outlines the death rituals observed by traditional Jews.

Usually the synagogue will take over many of the arrangements after a death in the family. Jewish burials take place as quickly as possible, following the principle of honoring the dead, k'vod hamet. Only if immediate relatives cannot arrive in time from abroad, or there is not enough time for burial before Shabbat or a holiday, are burials postponed for a day.

Anything less is considered a "humiliation of the dead," Greenberg explains.

If you don't already have funeral plots purchased, you or a representative will need to contact the cemetery to do so. You also will need to contact the funeral parlor to transfer the body and schedule the time of the funeral. Jewish law mandates a simple pine box. Cremation and embalming are forbidden.

Most well-organized communities offer the services of a chevrah kadishah, or sacred burial society, which will prepare the body for burial. Members wash the body with warm water from head to foot.
The body is dressed in tachrichim, or white burial shrouds, which are purposely kept simple to avoid distinguishing between rich or poor. Men are buried with their tallit, which are rendered ineffective by cutting off one of the fringes.

If, however, a person suffered an injury and blood soaked into his or her clothing, a tahara, or ritual washing, is not completed, because "the blood of a person is considered as holy as his life and deserves proper burial," Greenberg writes.

From the moment of death, the body is not left alone until after burial. This practice is called shemira or guarding. A family member, chevra kadishah member or someone hired by the funeral parlor passes the time by reciting tehillim or psalms.

Jewish funerals are very simple. Before they begin, the immediate relatives of the deceased -- siblings, parents, children, spouse -- tear their garments to symbolize their loss. Sometimes the rabbi will tear their garments and recite a blessing.

During the ceremony that follows, Psalms are recited, then a eulogy and El Maleh Rachamim, the memorial prayer. The casket is carried or wheeled out of the room by the male members of a chevra kadishah and the mourners follow behind the casket.

Those attending the funeral remain standing until the family mourners have left the room. Another custom is for people attending the funeral but not the burial to escort the dead, leveyat hamet, by walking behind the hearse for a short distance.

A Jew who is a Kohen, a descendant of the priestly class, will only attend the funeral and burial of his immediate family as he is otherwise forbidden to come near a corpse. For that reason, you may see a friend or relative who is a Kohen remain outside the funeral parlor or cemetery to pay his respects.

At the cemetery, another custom is to stop seven times as the coffin is carried to the grave, reciting Psalm 91. Once the coffin is lowered into the grave, family and close friends cover the coffin with a few handfuls of dirt. The rabbi repeats Psalm 91 and El Maleh Rachamim.

Following the burial, non-family members form two lines and, as the mourners pass by them, they recite the traditional condolence: HaMakom y'nachem etchem b'toch sh'ar availai Tziyon vee'Yerushalayim ( May God comfort you among all the mourners of Zion and Jerusalem). Before leaving the cemetery, everyone washes his or her hands as a symbolic cleansing.

There are several stages to Jewish mourning for the immediate family. The first is shivah, which marks the first seven days after burial. During this time, mourners do not leave their homes and sit on low stools as a sign of their loss. They traditionally wear their torn garments during shivah period but are permitted to wash them and take a daily shower for hygiene. Luxurious baths, haircuts, wearing leather shoes and sexual intercourse are avoided. Men do not shave and women do not wear cosmetics. During shivah, mirrors are covered with white sheets or a soapy film. A memorial candle is burned

Traditionally, Jews do not send flowers or bring candy to mourners. Instead, they make a donation to charity in memory of the deceased.

Another custom is to visit mourners during shivah and bring or help prepare their meals, which should include round foods, such as eggs or lentils, which symbolize life and hope. This tradition begins with the seudat havra'ah, the meal immediately following the burial, which is prepared by friends or neighbors. During Shabbat, mourners may have guests, but this is not usually a time for shivah calls.

During shivah, mourners recite Kaddish three times a day in the presence of a minyan, which is held in the home. If a holiday intervenes, shivah is terminated even if the full seven days have not run their course. If, however, the burial is held during the intermediary days of Sukkot or Passover, shivah is postponed until after the holiday ends. Mourners are permitted to attend synagogue on Shabbat.

The next stage of mourning begins at shloshim, the 30-day period after the burial. During this time, mourners do not hold or attend parties, weddings, musical events or dances, although the mourner may resume his or her regular routine.

If a parent dies, this period of mourning continues 11 months. During this time, the mourner recites Kaddish, the memorial prayer three times daily as part of a minyan. After one year, and for each year thereafter, a yahrzeit candle is lit for a full 24 hours. Men help lead synagogue services and a woman may sponsor the kiddush, or a small reception, after the services

Babs787,

Let me use another analogy,

1. Mrmayor drove a Tipper full of sand from Abuja to Lagos
2. Mrmayor drove a Tipper full of sand from Abuja to Lagos but at TOLL GATE,Mrmayor got towed to Lagos Island.

Can you see any Contradiction?

I laugh my head of when Religious people try to use science to justify their believe,

babs787:
@mrmayor
The first error the jews made was that, they had permitted Jesus to be brought down from the cross without breaking his legs under the false assumption that he had died.

Ha ha ha You accept then that he (JESUS) was Crucified.You deny he didn't die in other threads

babs787:
@mrmayor,
1. Do jews anoint corpses after three days?

Yes.Because Jesus died on the Eve of the Sabbath,if the burial rites where not complete.In the gospels it states that he was wrapped in cloth,which means that the cloth must have been soaked in blood and sweat,that is the origin of the Shroud Of Turin.Image of a bearded crucified man painted by his own blood.

babs787:
2. Do they go to Sabbath to anoint the dead after it has been buried?

The Sabbath is a holy day,which am sure you know.The women went to the tomb on Sunday which is first day of the week

babs787:
@mrmayor,
3. When did the practice stop if they have been?

Sir,for Orthodox Jews this practice of not burying the dead on the Sabbath continues,if a person is not Washed,Anointed before the Sabbath,it is the done after the Sabbath,which logically means Anointing already decaying body.BTW,all living things start decaying immediately after death,rate of decay differs

babs787:
4. Do Jews re-anoint already buried corpse?
5. Why did Mary want to re-anoint already buried decomposed

Sir,the two questions are actually one,don't understand why you are asking same thing twice.

He was buried UNWASHED and WRAPPED with SPICES.He was not Washed and Anointed as Jewish Tradition demanded.The bible never said he was anointed so can't be re-anointed.

The problem my people is Leadership ( Nigerian High Commissioner ) to Tanzania and Kenya.Their jobs is to make sure that Nigerians are treated with dignity in any country they  travel to.Would Kenyans and Tanzanians treat Iranians,Arabs with disdain? I think not,even when the Arabs blew up American embassies,killing hundreds of their citizens.

The fact is most countries would not tolerate this rubbish from African countries especially countries that beg to feed themselves every year.This attitude is not unique to east Africa but all of Africa.Obasanjo spent the better part of his Presidency begging for better Trade deals and debt cancellation for these ungrateful African countries

BTW,where are all those Pan-Africans,Afrocentric preachers on Nairaland?

Are you guys really surprised! Well am not.What is the Nigerian High Commision doing about all these harassment Nigerians go through in other countries?Its so annoying to get this kind of sh*t from Aids ravaged African countries.

"No Unity Based On Race" Afeni

925,

Sorry I'm not popping the champagne bottle in celebration.The title of the thread says it all, You don't believe His Excellency or at best you are a Skeptic.I would be the happiest man in the world to hear there is a cure for Aids,last year I was in tears when I heard about a friend who died from Aids/HIV.

I have heard it all from TB Joshua,Oyakilome and a host of other men of God who all claim that he have actually cured Aids,Nigerian newspapers is littered with adverts from people claiming to cure aids and yet we know that the epidemic spreads.

BTW,why do you need the West to validate Mr President's claim,don't we have good doctors in Africa to bear witness to his claim?

Bobby1,

I can't stop laughing Synagogue of Satan indeed.Nigerians are just paranoid.I think its time I open my own Church

Babs787,

OK,

1 Gospel ,   Mrmayor carried a bag of garri[b] himself [/b] from Abuja to Lagos.

3 Gospels  ,   Mrmayor carried a bag of garri himself but on the way to Lagos Babs787 helped him carry the bag to Lagos.

Is there a CONTRADICTION?

@Confused,

I'm so touched by your story,read your blog over and over again and to say I'm speechless would be an understatement.I am truly sorry you went through such pain and misery in your life.What can anyone say to you?I'm however happy you are on the road to recovery and talking about it is no small feat especially in a Self Righteous Society as Nigeria.
I have your blog in my favourites and I have sent links to everyone in my address book,keep being strong.I admire your strenght.

@Topic.

I have always suspected that these stuff "SEXUAL ABUSE" is rife in Nigeria but never had any evidence to support my views,I come from a family of 2 sisters and 4 brothers'the girls were older and we had cousins living with us though my mum insisted that she would only accept boys living us,no girls.
Her logic was she didn't want anyone getting pregnant in her house,come to think of it maybe she didn't want any male child living with her abusing any female child.

Its high time this issue is brought up in the main stream media and Nigerians should stop pretending that this stuff don't happen in our country

Islam is not Expanding by way of new Converts like Christianity has done for centuries but by population.This is true to Ireland where I'm resident.Over the last ten years there has been a large influx of immigrants to Europe especially to Ireland.The lasts Irish census showed a massive increase in the number of Muslims,Evangelical Christians,Buddist etc

The increase of the Muslim population is not made up of New Converts but as a result New Births,i.e Children born into Islamic families are seen and regarded as Muslims.
Islam has a bad press in Europe,there is nowhere you find a large number of Europeans wanting to convert to Islam,Islam just has too many issues

@Babyosisi & Syrup,

Congratualtions ladies,wishing you a happy married life.

@Babs787,

Lets keep this thread civilised I beg una,I believe we can all learn from eachother.Now to you last question.Who Carried The Cross For JESUS?

John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Mattew 27:32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

Mark 15:21 And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to
bear his cross

Luke 23:26 And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus

From John’s account, we understand that Jesus did walk under the weight of His own cross, and yet, taking into account Matthew’s,Mark's and Luke's report of Simon, we know that Jesus did not do so alone. How far did Jesus go bearing the cross Himself? We are not told. When Simon took up the Lord’s cross, did he bear it by himself, or did he help Jesus along with it? We are not told. However, the two statements can certainly be understood together without contradiction.

I don't see how John's ommision of Simon Cyreianian Contradicts the other accounts.I think that John's Gospel was more direct than the ones.

Babs787,

John 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!

John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

The passages states that Jesus was handed over to the Jewish authorities about the Sixth Hour (12pm),the whole crucification process took about 3 hours bringing it to the 9th hour (3pm).

I think that in John's account he stated the beginning of his ( JESUS) execution and Mark's accounts states the time of death.

Christians usually treat the hours from noon to 3 on good friday as the time of his suffering. The bible says that it was getting near to sundown when they decided to use the spear and end it so it would not go into the Sabbath.

As far as I can remember Christians hold a 3 hour service on GOOD FRIDAY to mark the beginning of Crucification to Time of Death; i.e 12pm - 3pm.
I understand the confusion about the HOUR.What unit of measurement is the writer of the two accounts John's and Mark's using. The Jewish measurement or Roman?

Meanwhile please check out this link;am sure it will answer a few questions. http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/451

I will however continue my reseach into the[b] CRUCIFIXION[/b]

I'll break it down after checking the Crucification Story.

1.The Jews wash and Anoint the DEAD before Burial

2.Jesus was Crucified on a Friday;a day before the SABBATH at about the 9th hour = 3pm.

3.He was pieced to make sure he was dead,handed over to Joseph fore Burial

4.Joseph most likely could not[b] COMPLETE [/b] the burial rites of Washing and Anointing of the Body before sunset on a Friday.

5.The Tomb was sealed by Pontius Pilate at the request of his accusers;the Jewish Priest because he claim that he ( JESUS ) would be resurrected on the THIRD DAY.

6.On the second day,the Sabbath nothing could be done because according to the Laws Of Moses no work could be done including Burial of the dead

7.Third day was Sunday and the First day of the week,this means that the Burial Rites of WASHING and ANOINTING could be COMPLETED

Babs787,

Thanks for the links,I have checked out the first one and it only confirms my original post;please note that I'm not holding brief for any religion as I have reservations to all who believe in things they can't see or prove its existence.

Now back to your argument,the bible stated that Jesus died on a Friday at the 9th hour making it 3pm;he was taken down and pieced with a spear to make sure he was dead and handed over to Joseph for burial.

The traditional Jewish burial rites required washing and anointing of the body before burial but this wasn't possible because he had to be buried before Sunset.The Bible clearly states that because of the controversies surrounding his claim to resurrect after three days a stone was placed at the entrance of his grave sealed with the seal of Pontius Pilate the Roman Governor of Judea.He placed a company of soldier (12-16) guarding it.

Please note that,the punishment for a Roman Soldier caught sleeping on duty was death

The third day was the Sunday and also the first day of the week,his followers went to the grave to wash and anoint the Body of Jesus to Complete the Burial rites.

My aplogies for not providing bible links to my summary above,I'm quite sure sure you guys know where to find the relevent material

Babs787,

Do the decent thing by providing the source of aguments,its really naughty making US the honourable members of this forum assume that your post are your idea.

I have done a bit of reseach on the subject of anointing the dead after burial and I have sent out emails to Pastors and Rabbis on the this issue.

"1. Is it a practice to anoint dead bodies on the third day in ANY religion?

When a body is taken down so as not to have it hanging out on the Sabbath and put into a tomb without anointing, I would say, yes, that anyone would not want someone they love to rot without anointing and would go back after the Sabbath to do so, especially women who followed Jesus and ministered to him and loved him very much and were there when we died on the cross."

Source. http://michaellee.modernwriters.org/viewtopic.php?p=5186&sid=24f0664dbd72e181e15ebe9757355852

MR-MAYOR.

I got this name from the movie "Return Of The Sabbata" by Lee Van Cliff. There was horse called Mrmayor in the movie.I like the name so much that I used it as my User name for my first email address way back in 1997.

I think its actually a cool unique name not common,

babs787:
@ babyosis,
An evidence

I asked your sister if jews massage rotten bodies after three days still no response.

It is a fact that muslims, christians and jews do no massage dead bodies after three days.

In three days, a corpse starts rotting from within and if we massage such a decomposing body, it will fall into pieces.

For her to have gone to massage Jesus, she must have sensed that jesus didnt die and came to massage him to relieve him of the pain.

Or better still, of what use is the massaging of a decomposing corpse? Does it make sense to massage a decomposing corpse?

I'm intrigued by the above quote,never thought of It.

Did Jews Anoint Corpses After the Burial? Please not that I used "ANOINT" instead of "MASSAGE" because the Bible used Anointing of of the body,saying its Massaging is Misleading
.
If Jews anointed dead bodies after they have been buried when did this practice stop? I hope to get positive responses.

I am not a Religion Hater, I respect everyone ones religion,provided the religious practice does not infringe on my right not have one.I am AGNOSTIC