₦airaland Forum

madegreatbygrace:
Was Judas saved?

How do you know if someone is saved?

Well, Jesus himself acknowledge that he lost him. Meaning he was saved but he lost him for the scripture to be fulfilled. John 17:12

jesusjnr2020:
I am a miracle myself.

God didn't need to do a miracle outside for me to believe in miracles. He did a miracle in me. And I can't believe myself that I am now who I am, because it's a miracle that only God could have done.

God bless.

Simple question, yet you chose to be evasive.

Typical cliches your pastors feed into your head because no signs follow them to prove they're followers of Christ. Mark 16:17

Did Jesus himself not say people wont believe without signs? John 4:48
And for that he and his disciples performed lots of signs and wonders.

But the average Christian keeps repeating the same evasive cliches above cos they have no signs.

Abudu2000:
Boyz become men , if u watched silent night that year

Above The Law was the classic for me.

How fine flies. Boys2men indeed.

BluntNigerian:
With time, the NIN Synchronisation will be fully completed for all the phone numbers in existence, meaning that every phone number in existence belongs to a known human being, and information about the owner of the phone number can be easily retrieved from the NIN Database, would the Network Providers still continue to be doing Number Recycling?
..
I need expert responses please.

You're just looking for excuse which you won't find.

It's an understandable measure considering the number of fraudulent and unsolicited calls.

Number recycling is not an issue since the record is with the telecomms coy.

sammy329:
Paul's writings are renowned for emphasizing that we are saved by grace, through faith, and without any contribution from our good deeds. James does not dispute this; rather, this entire passage is James's discussion of what kind of faith is "saving faith." James's point is that faith alone saves, but the faith which saves is the kind which leads to good works. That's why James was talking about helping brother in need from Jam. 2:1-10. Paul emphasizes our eternal salvation in God, James highlights how our actions prove the nature of our faith.
The fact that these two men are in agreement is shown in other similarities. For example, both Paul and James quote Genesis 15:6. Paul quotes it in Romans 4:3 as part of his teaching that salvation is available only through faith. James quotes it here in support of his teaching that genuine faith always leads to good works. James and Paul present arguments which do not contradict, but rather complement each other.

You know how to defend the bible, I give you that.
But you can't deny the obvious and blatant contradiction here.

sammy329:
Romans 3:28 (KJV) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:5-8 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Yea it's by faith alone, but the believer will good exhibit good works because of the indwelling of the spirit within him.

James 2:14-26
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds?
Can such faith save him?
Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.
If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless 
Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.



That's what I meant by the scripture contradicting itself.
You have rightly shared scriptural reference that Faith alone justifies the believer. Roman's 3:28

But I have likewise rightly shared scriptural reference that Faith without works is dead. James 2:26

sammy329:
The scriptures explains itself, they are not contradictory we just need to correctly handle the word of truth. Real bible study is tasking it takes a lot of time, but the problem nowadays is that we are doing Bible searching not Bible study.

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim. 2:15

Ok. What does the bible say about Faith and Works?

Can your faith alone take you to heaven or is it by your faith and works?

sammy329:
2Tim. 2:18-19 in context was about the false doctrine of hymaneaus and philetus.

1Tim 6:9-10 doesn't talk about believers loosing their salvation.

Salvation is eternal, there are many verses that speaks about that.
Hebrews 10:14 (KJV) For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

This scripture doesn't contradict itself, we just need to divide the word of the truth correctly.

But the same scripture says those that stray from the faith, those that commit sin wilfully can't escape judgment.

That's why I say the scriptures are quite self contradictory which explains the many confusion in the body of Christ.

sammy329:
Reading in context from verse 15, Jesus used to term ravening wolves to describe the false prophets but never did Jesus used for the description of the believer.
Verse 22-23
These are works of false prophets, they will work miracles, lying wonders, this is not descriptive of a believer, He says clearly "I never knew you", this implies that was no point in time that was any relationship, they were never believers.

2 Tim 2:18-19
Who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

1: Tim 6:9-10
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

These verses clearly show that a believer who was once in the faith can stray from the faith due to greed or love for money.
Meaning a believer can stop believing. And clearly a believer is meant to depart from iniquity.

This also corroborates the verse from Christ himself which says, Luke 18:6-10

Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

sammy329:
You really need to familiarise yourself with the books of Hebrews, because your understanding of the new covenant is low.

The word covenant is used 280 times in the bible, 256 times in the OT and 24 times in the NT, and one thing that ratified covenant both in OT and NT is the shedding of blood.

Hebrews 9:17-24 (KJV) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

You are somewhat correct in your knowledge about the old covenant, but your knowledge on the new covenant is incomplete, which makes it not good enough (because sometimes half truth is more dangerous than a lie).

I'm curious as to what you make of this.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!

[quote author=sammy329 post=97113954]You really need to familiarise yourself with the books of Hebrews, because your understanding of the new covenant is low.

The word covenant is used 280 times in the bible, 256 times in the OT and 24 times in the NT, and one thing that ratified covenant both in OT and NT is the shedding of blood.

Hebrews 9:17-24 (KJV) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

You are somewhat correct in your knowledge about the old covenant, but your knowledge on the new covenant is incomplete, which makes it not good enough (because sometimes half truth is more dangerous than a lie).

I'm curious as to what you make of this.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!

Kobojunkiee:
Once a person is saved and gifted with Eternal life, there is no way of unloading that gift or having the gift revoked.

As set by God Himself since Adam, those who die perish in the grave(cease to exist when they close their eyes for the final time on this earth). Adam's soul ceased to exist the moment he died since he never got the chance to eat from the tree of life... as in he has returned to the dust from which God made him. And this fate has been that of those who sinned from the beginning.

However, when Jesus Christ showed up on the horizon, offering Eternal life for free to all those who believe, He did so by revoking the punishment of sin which is death, as set by God from Adam. So, all those who are saved will no longer die but have eternal life instead. And since Jesus Christ made it clear that He has not come to condemn but to save, He did not provide an out for anyone who would want to change His mind, and so there is no provided no way of reinstating the revoked punishment - the condemnation of sin which is death.
Essentially, once a person is saved, there is no going back to being unsaved, whether you chose to no longer believe or not. Kind of like once you have eaten that fruit from the Tree of Life that is Jesus Christ, there is no way to change what has happened. There is only where to spend eternity that remains.
In John 10, Jesus Christ says something interesting about those who will choose to believe in Him- to the effect answering your question about those who will supposedly sell their souls to the devil and what not.

According to Jesus Christ, no one(not even the soul in question) can take any who believes in Him from His hands, because it is God that has in fact given them to Him. All souls belong to God and those souls that God has given to Jesus Christ, i.e. everyone who believes in Jesus Christ, belong to Him and only Him.
Those who believe belong to Jesus Christ and so cannot be taken out of His hand, nor stolen from Him. Since even the devils believe in Jesus Christ, they belong to Him, and so whatever they pretend to clam belongs to Him anyway. Another take is that since the one who believes belongs to Jesus Christ, and cannot be stolen, even when they suppose they have sold their souls to the devil, they are instead deceived they remain property of Jesus Christ even in their deluded state.

John 17:12
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Clearly he lost Judas.

sammy329:
I'm interpreting according to context, that is the first rule in bible interpretation.

Yes believers can't lose their salvation. Salvation is not based on man's effort, it's totally God's effort.

There's only 1 question I ask believers of once saved, forever saved.

If a believer decides he no longer wants to believe in Christ any more. He's not interested in heaven anymore and even decides to pursue love of money ( perhaps even sells his soul to the devil).

Do you mean he has no choice whatsoever,, no free will to decide for himself that he does not want to go to heaven any longer??

Kobojunkie:
The only guarantee given to those who believe in Jesus Christ is Eternal life.. A life free from the condemnation of sin and death(life that end/ceases once a person does) - not afterlife. This was thoroughly explained in the gospel of John Chapters 3, 5 and 10.

Exactly.

Heaven is different from eternal life but some pastors have misled their followers otherwise. Cos people don't read their bible.

sammy329:
what "truth". The truth about the sacrifice of Jesus for sins that was explained by the writer from verse 5 to 25.

To sin willfully in that verse talks about rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus.

Anyone that believes in Christ Jesus has been perfected forever, he is forever made worthy.

Do share, how did you determine that willful sin in this context was referred only to rejecting Christ, when the writer was addressing believers??

Like I always say, the bible is subject to various interpretations which is of course where the confusion is.

Let me guess, you don't believe any believer can lose their salvation right?

sammy329:
yes

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Very simple and very clear.

Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

How is that for your everlasting life?

igbarasdynasty:
"Nigerians give Priority to Agriculture, Same way Ministers give priority to Looting" - Mr Sabo Nanono.

Still on agriculture when other nations are investing in Science and Technooogy.

I lost hope in this govt when Buhari and Fashola were invited for G8 meeting and Buhari was busy talking about goat herding in this 21st century!!

sammy329:
The scriptures are not contradictory, the scriptures explains it. Most times the reason why people think there is contradiction is because they are used to quoting scriptures of context.

A lot of work must be done on bible hermeneutics and systematic theology

Is heaven guaranteed once you believe in Christ? With scriptural references.

Toks2008:
By believing in Christ, you have overcome.

I guess I will stop here. May GOD guide us.

Well, your opinion.

Read Revelations 2 and 3 with an open mind.

Toks2008:
As I wrote, Revelation 21:8 are for those who are not sanctified but the unbelievers who indulge with reckless abandonment.

Do you understand that the epistles were written to the church and not unbelievers?

Meaning Christians who continue in sin will not make the kingdom of heaven.

No where in the bible does it say heaven is guaranteed to any Christian. Revelation 3:21 says to whoever overcomes not to whoever believes in Christ.

Toks2008:
You can quote the latter perhaps I may shed more light for you to understand.

As a Christian you're heaven-bound.
Ephesians 2:4-7
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

If however you continue in sin you will not make heaven.

Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone”

Originalsly:
I thought judgement was reserved for God. No man knows his fate until the day of judgement.... so why would you even tell someone that he can make it if he follows whatever steps?

The bible is very self-contradictory.

There are portions of the bible that say you can know if you're going to be in heaven. Yet there are other portions that say you can never know.

jesusjnr2020:
I have decided to ignore you because you're just one obsessive fault finder who isn't willing to see the Truth or to learn even when it's obvious you're wrong because all you just want to do is to find fault.

Go back after my post and scroll down to see where the Op said he'd updated his title.

Not everyone is blind like you and seeking fault where there was none.

If you want to die in your sins, it's your choice. I can't force you to go where you don't want to go.

Oh well, you can't blame me when you didn't quote the OP and I only saw the modified post.

Dtruthspeaker:
No Law has No Power over The Maker of it. The Power of The Law falls on those who are less than it.

Hence, The Lord, Who created The Law of the Sabbath, can not be expected to obey it or bound by it, it is for us, lesser people.

Just as a father commands "Everyone should be in the house by 10pm", Surely, that Commandment does not and cannot affect him. And he can come back at 12:30pm if he desires but no child can do so without Consequences!

Well, apparently we're on the same page.

Meaning those who accused him of breaking the law were simply doing as he instructed them.

The only difference is while he believed he is the same God that instructed them, they didn't. But who can blame them? They never knew their generation would be the lucky generation to see God in the flesh.lol

Preciousgirl:
Mark 2:23-24,27-28

[23]Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain.

[24]And the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?”

[27]And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

[28]Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

What did Jesus mean by this? Thank you

Well, it simply proves that the bible contradicts itself.

God himself gave the laws to moses that the sabbath should be sacrosanct.

Yet Jesus broke the same laws only to claim his lordship over the sabbath.

Hence the confusion in christianity where several denominations don't worship on Saturdays but decided to choose Sunday as their sabbath.

Also why so many Christian's dont feel the need to go to church anymore.

jesusjnr2020:
Nice but I think instead of seeking wisdom from God, we should seek the God of Wisdom.

Therefore we don't only get wisdom, we also get God and every other thing that God brings with Him.

God bless.

Isn't that what the OP said?
You just love argument.

Omihanifa:
The truth is women don't like each other
There's so much jealousy, gossip, bad blood amongst them. So they would rather call a man to help them because they feel their issues are safe with men

When women are fighting, you need to listen to the kind of things they say out to each other

You go dey hear things like you way like to dey borrow other people pants

You way you dey come borrow money for my hand to feed your jobless husband

The only problem I have with this post is its absolute generalization.

I have some lady friends that I even envy their friendship.
Just like I have some male friends that are tight too.

So it goes both ways.

But truly, fake friendship is more prominent in ladies.

Helpfromabove1:
Ok interesting,

But wait what of if pastor osagie too go meet pastor Adeboye what will he tell him ?

That he will lose ? or what

The irony is Ize Iyamu is one of the head pastors in RCCG, Edo. So there's no way he contested the election without his fellow pastors telling him God has chosen him to win the election. Meaning if he had won, we would likewise have claimed some pastors or even Adeboye told him God had declared him winner.

Religious hypocrites.

jesusjnr2020:
Don't worry much about church bro.. Worry about God, because church is a variable, but God is a constant.

Church can change but God can never change.

You don't need church bro, what you need is God, so ensure that you're with God and that He's with you, and use that to determine the decisions you make and actions you take.

So whatever church does or become, even if it turns to something else other than what it ought to be, it won't affect your relationship with God.

I haven't been an active member of a church for close to twenty years now, yet it would be hard to find someone who's been active in the church all the while that's as close to God as I am.

It's all about God bro, not church.

God bless.

I don't even know if to call your self-righteousness or self-delusion.

I don't know if you hear yourself. Cos you sound more like Pharisees and not like the disciples.

You're close to God yet you have no idea of his plans for your life talk less of his plans for the world?

Covid19 came and left, you heard nothing. Trump lost US election which most Christians claimed he would win.

You have no testimony of anyone who has been healed through your prayers.

All you do is keep professing how more righteous than everyone you are. All you preach lately is end of the world just because of Covid-19 which you heard nothing about.

Delusional is the only word that explains your case.

HuncleDee:
I pray you dont mis-quote the bible, Abraham and others you called out in the old testament were justified by Faith. The bible speaking in Hebrews 11 said by Faith, meaning having Faith in God made David, Abraham, and others righteous.
Even a harlot was made righteous by faith.

Perhaps you missed where it was written that their faith was working together with their works?
Maybe you can share your understanding ofJames 2:20-26

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

femi4:
The Bible tells us that payment for sin is death (Romans 6:23). In the Old Testament, God told His people to set aside the day of atonement to make sacrifices for their sins. They were to bring an innocent, blemish-free animal as a temporary atonement for their sins (Leviticus 4:3, Leviticus 16:29-30).


God gave a temporary means of forgiveness through the death of animals (Leviticus 17:11). But no amount of sheep or sheer effort could remove the sin from the world, and God knew it. So when the time was right, He sent His son, Jesus, to be the perfect, spotless, and permanent substitute for us

Have you seen any unbeliever that died because he sinned? Or a believer that died because he sinned?

Yes the wages of sin is (eternal) death but atleast this much we know that Abraham and Moses are in heaven. Meaning they did not need the blood of Jesus to make it to heaven.

So what then is the difference between the old and the new testament?

Can you explain why one's effort means he has fallen from grace? When the same bible instructs us to desist from sin, work out our salvation etc?

femi4:
He died to give you Second Chance = GRACE
Repentance of sin in the old testament didn't cover you. You are not an Israelites. Jesus sacrificed himself to cover both Jews and Gentiles

Were Jews not Israelites?
Why did they also need Jesus to still die for them since they already had forgiveness of their sins in sacrifices?

What is the basis of this discussion?

That the bible is self contradictory.

You said one who has fallen from Grace is some one who tries to use his efforts to be righteous.

I am simply saying the same bible says YOU should work out YOUR own salvation with fear and trembling.