₦airaland Forum

sammy329:
Reading in context from verse 15, Jesus used to term ravening wolves to describe the false prophets but never did Jesus used for the description of the believer.
Verse 22-23
These are works of false prophets, they will work miracles, lying wonders, this is not descriptive of a believer, He says clearly "I never knew you", this implies that was no point in time that was any relationship, they were never believers.

2 Tim 2:18-19
Who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

1: Tim 6:9-10
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

These verses clearly show that a believer who was once in the faith can stray from the faith due to greed or love for money.
Meaning a believer can stop believing. And clearly a believer is meant to depart from iniquity.

This also corroborates the verse from Christ himself which says, Luke 18:6-10

Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

sammy329:
You really need to familiarise yourself with the books of Hebrews, because your understanding of the new covenant is low.

The word covenant is used 280 times in the bible, 256 times in the OT and 24 times in the NT, and one thing that ratified covenant both in OT and NT is the shedding of blood.

Hebrews 9:17-24 (KJV) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

You are somewhat correct in your knowledge about the old covenant, but your knowledge on the new covenant is incomplete, which makes it not good enough (because sometimes half truth is more dangerous than a lie).

I'm curious as to what you make of this.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!

[quote author=sammy329 post=97113954]You really need to familiarise yourself with the books of Hebrews, because your understanding of the new covenant is low.

The word covenant is used 280 times in the bible, 256 times in the OT and 24 times in the NT, and one thing that ratified covenant both in OT and NT is the shedding of blood.

Hebrews 9:17-24 (KJV) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

You are somewhat correct in your knowledge about the old covenant, but your knowledge on the new covenant is incomplete, which makes it not good enough (because sometimes half truth is more dangerous than a lie).

I'm curious as to what you make of this.

Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!

Kobojunkiee:
Once a person is saved and gifted with Eternal life, there is no way of unloading that gift or having the gift revoked.

As set by God Himself since Adam, those who die perish in the grave(cease to exist when they close their eyes for the final time on this earth). Adam's soul ceased to exist the moment he died since he never got the chance to eat from the tree of life... as in he has returned to the dust from which God made him. And this fate has been that of those who sinned from the beginning.

However, when Jesus Christ showed up on the horizon, offering Eternal life for free to all those who believe, He did so by revoking the punishment of sin which is death, as set by God from Adam. So, all those who are saved will no longer die but have eternal life instead. And since Jesus Christ made it clear that He has not come to condemn but to save, He did not provide an out for anyone who would want to change His mind, and so there is no provided no way of reinstating the revoked punishment - the condemnation of sin which is death.
Essentially, once a person is saved, there is no going back to being unsaved, whether you chose to no longer believe or not. Kind of like once you have eaten that fruit from the Tree of Life that is Jesus Christ, there is no way to change what has happened. There is only where to spend eternity that remains.
In John 10, Jesus Christ says something interesting about those who will choose to believe in Him- to the effect answering your question about those who will supposedly sell their souls to the devil and what not.

According to Jesus Christ, no one(not even the soul in question) can take any who believes in Him from His hands, because it is God that has in fact given them to Him. All souls belong to God and those souls that God has given to Jesus Christ, i.e. everyone who believes in Jesus Christ, belong to Him and only Him.
Those who believe belong to Jesus Christ and so cannot be taken out of His hand, nor stolen from Him. Since even the devils believe in Jesus Christ, they belong to Him, and so whatever they pretend to clam belongs to Him anyway. Another take is that since the one who believes belongs to Jesus Christ, and cannot be stolen, even when they suppose they have sold their souls to the devil, they are instead deceived they remain property of Jesus Christ even in their deluded state.

John 17:12
Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Clearly he lost Judas.

sammy329:
I'm interpreting according to context, that is the first rule in bible interpretation.

Yes believers can't lose their salvation. Salvation is not based on man's effort, it's totally God's effort.

There's only 1 question I ask believers of once saved, forever saved.

If a believer decides he no longer wants to believe in Christ any more. He's not interested in heaven anymore and even decides to pursue love of money ( perhaps even sells his soul to the devil).

Do you mean he has no choice whatsoever,, no free will to decide for himself that he does not want to go to heaven any longer??

Kobojunkie:
The only guarantee given to those who believe in Jesus Christ is Eternal life.. A life free from the condemnation of sin and death(life that end/ceases once a person does) - not afterlife. This was thoroughly explained in the gospel of John Chapters 3, 5 and 10.

Exactly.

Heaven is different from eternal life but some pastors have misled their followers otherwise. Cos people don't read their bible.

sammy329:
what "truth". The truth about the sacrifice of Jesus for sins that was explained by the writer from verse 5 to 25.

To sin willfully in that verse talks about rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus.

Anyone that believes in Christ Jesus has been perfected forever, he is forever made worthy.

Do share, how did you determine that willful sin in this context was referred only to rejecting Christ, when the writer was addressing believers??

Like I always say, the bible is subject to various interpretations which is of course where the confusion is.

Let me guess, you don't believe any believer can lose their salvation right?

sammy329:
yes

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Very simple and very clear.

Hebrews 10:26-27
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

How is that for your everlasting life?

igbarasdynasty:
"Nigerians give Priority to Agriculture, Same way Ministers give priority to Looting" - Mr Sabo Nanono.

Still on agriculture when other nations are investing in Science and Technooogy.

I lost hope in this govt when Buhari and Fashola were invited for G8 meeting and Buhari was busy talking about goat herding in this 21st century!!

sammy329:
The scriptures are not contradictory, the scriptures explains it. Most times the reason why people think there is contradiction is because they are used to quoting scriptures of context.

A lot of work must be done on bible hermeneutics and systematic theology

Is heaven guaranteed once you believe in Christ? With scriptural references.

Toks2008:
By believing in Christ, you have overcome.

I guess I will stop here. May GOD guide us.

Well, your opinion.

Read Revelations 2 and 3 with an open mind.

Toks2008:
As I wrote, Revelation 21:8 are for those who are not sanctified but the unbelievers who indulge with reckless abandonment.

Do you understand that the epistles were written to the church and not unbelievers?

Meaning Christians who continue in sin will not make the kingdom of heaven.

No where in the bible does it say heaven is guaranteed to any Christian. Revelation 3:21 says to whoever overcomes not to whoever believes in Christ.

Toks2008:
You can quote the latter perhaps I may shed more light for you to understand.

As a Christian you're heaven-bound.
Ephesians 2:4-7
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

If however you continue in sin you will not make heaven.

Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone”

Originalsly:
I thought judgement was reserved for God. No man knows his fate until the day of judgement.... so why would you even tell someone that he can make it if he follows whatever steps?

The bible is very self-contradictory.

There are portions of the bible that say you can know if you're going to be in heaven. Yet there are other portions that say you can never know.

jesusjnr2020:
I have decided to ignore you because you're just one obsessive fault finder who isn't willing to see the Truth or to learn even when it's obvious you're wrong because all you just want to do is to find fault.

Go back after my post and scroll down to see where the Op said he'd updated his title.

Not everyone is blind like you and seeking fault where there was none.

If you want to die in your sins, it's your choice. I can't force you to go where you don't want to go.

Oh well, you can't blame me when you didn't quote the OP and I only saw the modified post.

Dtruthspeaker:
No Law has No Power over The Maker of it. The Power of The Law falls on those who are less than it.

Hence, The Lord, Who created The Law of the Sabbath, can not be expected to obey it or bound by it, it is for us, lesser people.

Just as a father commands "Everyone should be in the house by 10pm", Surely, that Commandment does not and cannot affect him. And he can come back at 12:30pm if he desires but no child can do so without Consequences!

Well, apparently we're on the same page.

Meaning those who accused him of breaking the law were simply doing as he instructed them.

The only difference is while he believed he is the same God that instructed them, they didn't. But who can blame them? They never knew their generation would be the lucky generation to see God in the flesh.lol

Preciousgirl:
Mark 2:23-24,27-28

[23]Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain.

[24]And the Pharisees said to Him, “Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?”

[27]And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

[28]Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

What did Jesus mean by this? Thank you

Well, it simply proves that the bible contradicts itself.

God himself gave the laws to moses that the sabbath should be sacrosanct.

Yet Jesus broke the same laws only to claim his lordship over the sabbath.

Hence the confusion in christianity where several denominations don't worship on Saturdays but decided to choose Sunday as their sabbath.

Also why so many Christian's dont feel the need to go to church anymore.

jesusjnr2020:
Nice but I think instead of seeking wisdom from God, we should seek the God of Wisdom.

Therefore we don't only get wisdom, we also get God and every other thing that God brings with Him.

God bless.

Isn't that what the OP said?
You just love argument.

Omihanifa:
The truth is women don't like each other
There's so much jealousy, gossip, bad blood amongst them. So they would rather call a man to help them because they feel their issues are safe with men

When women are fighting, you need to listen to the kind of things they say out to each other

You go dey hear things like you way like to dey borrow other people pants

You way you dey come borrow money for my hand to feed your jobless husband

The only problem I have with this post is its absolute generalization.

I have some lady friends that I even envy their friendship.
Just like I have some male friends that are tight too.

So it goes both ways.

But truly, fake friendship is more prominent in ladies.

Helpfromabove1:
Ok interesting,

But wait what of if pastor osagie too go meet pastor Adeboye what will he tell him ?

That he will lose ? or what

The irony is Ize Iyamu is one of the head pastors in RCCG, Edo. So there's no way he contested the election without his fellow pastors telling him God has chosen him to win the election. Meaning if he had won, we would likewise have claimed some pastors or even Adeboye told him God had declared him winner.

Religious hypocrites.

jesusjnr2020:
Don't worry much about church bro.. Worry about God, because church is a variable, but God is a constant.

Church can change but God can never change.

You don't need church bro, what you need is God, so ensure that you're with God and that He's with you, and use that to determine the decisions you make and actions you take.

So whatever church does or become, even if it turns to something else other than what it ought to be, it won't affect your relationship with God.

I haven't been an active member of a church for close to twenty years now, yet it would be hard to find someone who's been active in the church all the while that's as close to God as I am.

It's all about God bro, not church.

God bless.

I don't even know if to call your self-righteousness or self-delusion.

I don't know if you hear yourself. Cos you sound more like Pharisees and not like the disciples.

You're close to God yet you have no idea of his plans for your life talk less of his plans for the world?

Covid19 came and left, you heard nothing. Trump lost US election which most Christians claimed he would win.

You have no testimony of anyone who has been healed through your prayers.

All you do is keep professing how more righteous than everyone you are. All you preach lately is end of the world just because of Covid-19 which you heard nothing about.

Delusional is the only word that explains your case.

HuncleDee:
I pray you dont mis-quote the bible, Abraham and others you called out in the old testament were justified by Faith. The bible speaking in Hebrews 11 said by Faith, meaning having Faith in God made David, Abraham, and others righteous.
Even a harlot was made righteous by faith.

Perhaps you missed where it was written that their faith was working together with their works?
Maybe you can share your understanding ofJames 2:20-26

You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

femi4:
The Bible tells us that payment for sin is death (Romans 6:23). In the Old Testament, God told His people to set aside the day of atonement to make sacrifices for their sins. They were to bring an innocent, blemish-free animal as a temporary atonement for their sins (Leviticus 4:3, Leviticus 16:29-30).


God gave a temporary means of forgiveness through the death of animals (Leviticus 17:11). But no amount of sheep or sheer effort could remove the sin from the world, and God knew it. So when the time was right, He sent His son, Jesus, to be the perfect, spotless, and permanent substitute for us

Have you seen any unbeliever that died because he sinned? Or a believer that died because he sinned?

Yes the wages of sin is (eternal) death but atleast this much we know that Abraham and Moses are in heaven. Meaning they did not need the blood of Jesus to make it to heaven.

So what then is the difference between the old and the new testament?

Can you explain why one's effort means he has fallen from grace? When the same bible instructs us to desist from sin, work out our salvation etc?

femi4:
He died to give you Second Chance = GRACE
Repentance of sin in the old testament didn't cover you. You are not an Israelites. Jesus sacrificed himself to cover both Jews and Gentiles

Were Jews not Israelites?
Why did they also need Jesus to still die for them since they already had forgiveness of their sins in sacrifices?

What is the basis of this discussion?

That the bible is self contradictory.

You said one who has fallen from Grace is some one who tries to use his efforts to be righteous.

I am simply saying the same bible says YOU should work out YOUR own salvation with fear and trembling.

femi4:
Forgiveness and repentance dude committed by first Adam.

You should understand the scripture better than this

If the LAW was perfect, Jesus wouldn't have died on the cross

After his death and resurrection have you stopped committing sin?

Only Jesus overcame sin. Even the early disciples continued to struggle with sin. Even you pastor is still struggling with sin.
Meaning repentance from sin is in the old testament as well as in the new testament.

The only difference is that the blood of Jesus which was the ultimate sacrifice stopped all othet forms of sacrifice for sin.

divinemichael:
I ask this question, because of the teachings of certain sects and religious groups, such as Islam who claims Christ was just a prophet, the Jehovah witness who claim Christ is angel michael, and some other groups who try to discredit and deny the divinity and preexistence of Christ.

I presume God's statement (come lets make man in our own image) in the book of "Genesis" was directed to Christ and possibly the holy spirit which is a proof for the doctrine of trinity...

Anyway if there's a contrary probative opinion with cogent evidences, am ready to learn and be corrected.

Why do you like to create confusions for yourselves.

No where in the bible is this question answered. All you will get is people's eisegesis.

Some claim because of trinity, God was referring to the Holyspirit and Jesus (His Word).

Some claim he was referring to the Angel's. Although we do not confirm that Angel's share the same image and likeness with God.

femi4:
It's not contradictory.

The Bible is clear, in that even in your personal effort, GRACE must be acknowledge.

All your WORKS are futile without putting GRACE into consideration

The laws are letters and they KILL, no forgiveness or repentance in LAW. Everything about LAW is condemnation

Why do you speak like you have never read the bible before. How can you say theres no forgiveness or repentance in the law?

Abraham, Samson, David, Solomon and others sinned and were forgiven by God in the old testament.

The difference is there is no longer the need for sacrifices in the new testament as the blood of Jesus atones for all sins.

You should read your bible before making posts. Don't speak of what you have no knowledge of cos there are those who will expose your ignorance of scriptures.

jiggaz:
These are notes on the sermon, What It Means To Fall From Grace, preached by Pastor Joseph Prince on Sunday, 22 November 2020, at The Star Performing Arts Centre, Singapore. We hope these sermon notes will be an encouragement to you!


Overview

1. Introduction: We are no longer under the law but under grace

2. What does “falling from grace” really mean?

3. Your part is not to earn God’s blessings but to simply receive them by grace

4. You fall from grace when you depend on your own effort to get what God has already given you

5. Only grace can produce moral excellence in your life

6. Only grace can supply you with divine favor and peace with people

7. Grace, not the law, is at the heart of true holiness

8. Under grace, divine health and healing flow


PLEASE READ THE CONCLUDING PART OF THIS WONDERFUL SERMON VIA THE LINK BELOW...


https://www.josephprince.com/sermon-notes/what-it-means-to-fall-from-grace

I've been waiting for someone to bring this up.

This is why i say the bible is self contradictory.

The same bible that says you should not try to fulfil the laws also tells you're a sinner if you don't stop committing sin.
Which means it is a personal effort to stop committing sin. Yet if you try to stop committing sin you are no longer under Grace but under the law.

Can you explain this?

Righteousness89:
Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Judgement is Coming; Escape!!!

Revelation 6:15-16
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb

Judgement is Coming; Escape!!!

Revelation 9:6
And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Judgement is Coming; Escape!!!

Revelation 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Judgement is Coming; Escape!!!

Revelation 8:7-9
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Judgement is Coming; Escape!!!

Revelation 8: 10-13
10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Judgement is Coming; Escape!!!


What is the way of Escape?

The only way of Escape is to Surrender to JESUS Christ. There is no other way.

A- Admit or Acknowledge that you are a Sinner in need of a Savior. Romans 3:10, Romans 3:23

B- Believe in your Heart that JESUS Christ is LORD. Romans 10:9-10

C- Call upon the Name of the LORD. Romans 10:13

You keep speaking of judgment as if you can escape God's judgment. Haven't you read Psalm130:3? If God should mark our iniquities who can stand?

Or haven't you read Revelations 2 and 3?
None of the 7 churches is free of iniquity.

CaptainZubi:
For about 5 years now I've been battling extreme tiredness . Asides that I sleep alot most especially at afternoons. At night,nonce I sleep around 11pm and not going to work the next day, I can wake up by 10am or 11 am.

During afternoon and night sleeps, the sleep is usually very deep (REM phase or whatever you medics call it, please correct me) and usually characterized by heavy dreams.

Even during work, I'll always take the risk to create some time to have a little sleep. I've been battling this for about 5 years now. What could be wrong.

That's signs of depression.
Find something you're passionate about that will motivate you to stay awake more.

FahBuLous:
Jesus didn't call them fools..

Matthew 23:17
You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?