₦airaland Forum

@Godson2009: When I saimply say "I swear by Allah", a statement of affirmation, you said i was swearing to mean that I was cursing. Yet inyour decency because you are a Christian, true to its meaning said many thing about Allah and Muhammad (AS) about Hell fire, while to speak about Adeboye and his giving food to some nigerian former muslims, now Christians, and upgrading Adeboye to the level of Moses, etc, even saying that Moses saw God, face to face; my questions to you are many, but are you for real, since the Bible, and indeed Moses said that no one has ever seen God and if anyone were to see him, he will not live, physically or spiritually?

Do you know that there is a religion in Nigeria now called Chrislim and why are you surprised that many among the yorubas, hungry and easily cajoled when hunger catches you are now christians? There is a yoruba song which is very appropriate her: Ese giri nle anjofe! Adeboye can be called all kinds of names, including deity, but if he dies as a non Muslim, I affirm by Allah that there is no paradise for him, and in heaven which he expect to go anyhow, Hell is waiting for him!

Finally, who created Hell? Do you think its Creator, Who is the Creator of all things will be victimised by His Own creation? You think Allah is Biblical Jesus that as Jesus was victimised by Jews, whom you said he was their creator, as well, The Almighty will be victimised by Hell? No, man.


And as to Kola Abiola; that foolish boy is a fool. While he hurdes everything of his father excluding his siblings from other mothers, some of them are independently making names for themselves in the USA, here. The struggle with life and finish their education. I know them, personally. The question is this, if Mas'ud (ra) gave him a great responsibility, while he was alive, it shows his not having full knowledge of everything, because the same Kola turns out to be a bad son, because if Mas'ud were to be alive, today and see what Kola had done with his mother's children while excluing his father's children from his step mothers, then we should now say: What would Abiola do in this situation, while Kola womanises with father's mother and fail to pay school fes of father's children?


Allah/Eloi is different from Abiola. Allah know s everything, unlike Abiola. And its shameful that you compared your god jesus to a mere discrimatory Kola!

when u disrespect a woman, a human being calling her pig, she does not raise or buy or eat it, but u do! I really dont careif u respect me or not; the yorubas say ile lati nkesho rode! am sure is a reflection on your refusal to accept the training of your elders, or something similar.

i really dont think i need ur response, and dont forget that i am a human being; I am permitted to have a position and also to make mistake; thats human. am also certain that when u call a woman a pig, with your attitude of pride and arrogance, somebody aught to call you out on it!

And finally, I am sure that my not being forthright is based on my not accepting a mere Jewish man as God? Dream on. It will never happen! I have the luury of having a pure heart and firmly planted in Islamic Monotheism!

Alhamdulillah.

what way? The Jews who hold your salvation never accepted him. If we go by the fact that they still control salvation over your head, then you will never get it. Read what you people are saying about salvation and jews,again! You dont have salvation, according to you, relative to the position of the jews!

This Kufar people are the strangest thing: they either get freedom from human slave master or colonnizer, but turn around and put a yoke of servitude, slavery, servantry on their own neck under a man who used to urinate, etc and eat and drink like me: Human!

Sometimes when I am putting on chamise/Jilbab, I imagine Jesus on the samething, like the Sudanese type, walking briskly in the narrow and winding streets between homes in Jerussalem (Ilyya) to make sajdah to Allah on the ground where Masjid Aqsa is situated. I ask myself, cant this people see that this man was just a human being and cant be God, since he came from woman, a family of man?

And he yells 'does this make sense' all day long. And the other has a slapstick way of expressing himself.

@Nezan:« #25 on: Yesterday at 01:02:22 PM »

Islam and controversies . .

Now, black muslims like olabowale, muhsin, et al will not smell allah's paradise?

So funny,

My father (ra) who died on 30th of March 1966, InshaAllah has his soul secured in Jannah, already. When I died, many many couples of decades from now, from now, InshaAllah, I will have my soul secure in Jannah, as well!

Will will you be? Heaven?

And there are 7 heavens! Go ask your pastor(s), one of them may know it. Since you like Biggie Small grouping "more Money phrase", Tupac shakur said that he wondered if "hell" has GHETTO! Where is hell, except heaven? See, the huge problem you have?

It is very clear that from Adam to Noah (AS to both) the whole world was not heavily populated, so the people on eath must have been Noah,s local people! Why would a sea animal be kept in the ship away from water, when whales need big water body to swim? Flood brings big water body. No? And the oceans were already in there anyway, since the sea craetures were existing in the oceans, before the flood.

People use your Atheist common sense. The_seeker was correct as we see that the population of man at Noah's timwe would have been tops, a small nation like!

the guy will not call. he writes once, drop his phone #, and that once every few months or twice a year! that a guy with funny bone. he is a playa.

Lets agree on something here! I will let you resond to me post. Then when you are finished, I will respond to you. I think thats how to dialogue. Your piling up to me, seems to be a way to deceive. This is my second time tell you this. More importantly, you do not even approach the core of my statemet about Mhammad. I wonder why?

@Godson2009: « #352 on: September 30, 2009, 04:04 PM »  

hmmn i see,dont worry i will do if i am given the research job i am pursuing on terrorism in africa, in the same vein i will enjoin you to read the niv version of the bible,it is in clear and easy to understand english,rather than the kjv or new kjv,i only know of one bible where it says jesus is the son of GOD,and tells me that he died for my sins,e.t.c any other bible you know i suggest you discard them,the voice or the way it sounds is not the bone of contention here,but the truth and falsehood contained therein is what  matters,the fact that  sina peters is good to hear or obesere and the others doesnt divorce the fact that they have vulgar lyrics

I will wait till the revision is completed and the publishing company put it up for sale! lol! Can you imagine how the Catholics buying your propoal to me, as above? ~Lady~, standup  for your right. I will standup for the catholics, for 2 valid reasons; the first is that the protestants plagiarised it. And the second is that I have a swiss friend for over 23 years, almost like a brother. He is a catholic. Then Dr Valentine Okeke is a catholic and Sophia Kondor is also one! To go back to the "bone of contention", I find falsehood in your Bible, and i have shown them; Jesus said he is a no God by say he and his listeners, the whole of "Israel" not nigerians, etc have just one God and Lord. Then he said he and father are One. Whats up with that?

Another is that they called him a mere good teacher, and he said why call me good, and made it clear that God is the One who is Good. How can he be God with this opinion from him, versus the one from Paul and the gang, saying he is God?

What about the Acts 4 verses 25/30 that clearly show that he is a servant, while those who never saw him, knew him say equivocally that he is God. Who is correct? Lol!

What about his saying God God, when you guys are saying it is father father? I am tired of your getting your Bible down pack, and you are dealing with Quran! As I have stated, your research is for the unintelligent. And you are on your may to becoming an ORIENTALIST!

another  dodging of questions, so hadiths are only authentic,as long as they dont reveal the hidden secrets and contradiction of your mohammad,lol  you see the duplicity already in your quran?how will you know he said or didnt say it if you wernt there?everything you are working on is solely based on "it cant have been" it isnt so based on the say so of this and that", even the quran itself shows this confusion because it is neither arranged numerically or chronologically, it is not arranged according to the way the prophecy came bringing in further confusions,in fct the book should be aptly named"the book of confusion"
a non believer can pick up a copy of the bible and at least read with basic comprehension,not so the quran you have to start from the back,and even the ones where u start from the front is soo confusing,

Again Quran has more authority than ahadith. Muhammad is the human embodiment of Quran. If an ahadith  goes against Quran, it must go against Muhammad! And by the way popularity is not what makes honesty. 1 person may be correct while a million take the position of wrong. The one who is correct is on the Side Of GOD ALMIGHTY! Thats the beginning of how you will get any understanding. At least you have humility, and this I personally give you. Finally chronological arrangement as you think does not happen in Islam is a very good evidence of the correctnes of Quran. Take two chapters and see how they flow to eac other.

i am tired of this abrogation thing you keep dodging from,it is not replace by a better verse
are you saying the sword verses,is better than verses such as no compulsion in islam,and the defensive jihad verse? you see the crass duplicity and contradiction in your book of confusion??

Let me make it easy for you. If a man intend to fight me, I am entitled to fight him. This is not abrogated. If a man is not a muslim, and he is not intending to stop me from Islam, then the verse no compulsion in religion applies to him. Two people two complete situatios! I explained to you about drinking liqour. A drunk when he becomes Muslim, will do a 12 steps to weaning from alcohol. Now thats abrogation, because there are verses saying drinking is to be avoided when prayers are to be entered. That was the beginning of Iman. Then when Iman enters hard, they do not drink, because they are commanded to drop strong drinks. Is that too difficult to understand?

i see so if by 100 years from now extra terrestials start living on earth with humans,your generations have the right to further tune and shift the quran to suit their purposes?lol lol

In the Quran, there is a Chapter called "Jinn; UFO, extraterristral. Then there is a section of the Quran that talks about the Jinn listening to Muhammad (AS) after the people of Taif had stoned him. They heard him recite Surah ArRahman, I think. This portion is in Surah "Gahffir" in the Haa Miim Surah group, before Surah Muhammad (AS)! Islam knows that there is extraterrestral beings and Shaitan, formerly Iblis is from tem! He was not a falling angel.

im sure you know that the bible has been intact and will always b till the end of time we have only one bible,but different interpretations,to see the complete bible,just type biblegateway on your computer and it ll show you the whole translations there are, no confusion, no seperate hadiths or something from GOD know who.

Interpretations you said? Show me a true Bible, from amongs just this list: NIV, RKJV, KJV, The Mormons, Douwy? You know NIV is doing a revision in USA? Separate the translations and give me the Original Bible! Just one of them.

lol i see,so you agree then?maybe you gys need to make your quran user friendly first of all  
secondly.to remove the cloud of duplicity that has been associated with the book of confusion,show everyone you have nothing to hide,both your negatives and pocsitives,like we have done, you can go into any hotel and pick up a bible where you will find the positives and the old testament negatives,all inclusive and finally the coming of jesus to right the wrongs e.t.c

OT is now negative, the book that Jesus of the Gospel says I don not come to abrogate the Laws and Prophets? Wow! Quran does not need to be accepted by everyone to be correct. It is not a book tat is begging people to read it, and purity is the Key word here! The Bible is not pure, and the Revelation Books, even if I ignore the Acts, are evidents of the fact that Jesus' "it is finish" statatement really is not true, because it was not finished! When Jesus said he came not to abrogate the laws and the prophets, least in the kingdon of heaven" versus the compresed one liner of the whole of the OT to "Love your God with all your heart, and the neighbors like yourself" is a complete opposition to each other! Which one is correct?

if anyone is fostering agendas,it is the muslims whose angenda is to forcefully convert all non muslims,to islam and kill these unwilling to accept

Brother man, if you could see me shaking my head with a frowning of face as if I am catching a cold, from your intentionally bending the reality of truth, because you know the people bent on converting the Muslims today are the Christians; Afghanistan, Iraq and on Youtube, there is a slew of videos on "Christian missionary atrocities!" Watch and let me know how you like Christianity? George Bush was in one, talking about "CRUSADE", and you have the boldness to deny Crusade as a Christian thing? Are the Catholics not Christians? Is George Bush not a Christian? Wow!

im sure you will agree with me,that because your mother or indeed your family converted doesnt count much in the ultimate and general scheme of things,how many hundreds of thousand of muslims are converting to christianity right now,we both know that they are converting everyday, for various reasons especially in the western world and nigeria/ghana and other parts of  west africa,what you have just related was in the old testament,now jesus christ who died for us is the bridge between us and  the father GOD,that is why he said no one can go to the father except through him,we have dropped the blood and animal sacrifice because we dont need it anymore,all we need do,is to kneel down and pray for forgiveness good for your room mate and your mum,but i still maintain that based on all you have written,so far and your interpretation of the bible,plus the way you obviously mix and confuse the verses/chapters,the best is a rudimentary knowledge of the bible,after glossing over it,you have not studied the bible yet,and with all due respect,if your room mate faults what i and others have been writing,then i will challenge him,or anyone to show me the copy of the bible they r using,just like uplawal,with all due respect you have to admit,your mum at best was a sunday sunday christian,not a born again and broken christian,pls show me one single really born again and broken christian who has converted to islam?i have mentioned three core islamic believers who have converted to full time ministry,that is not mentioning friends

If my mother and others in my life are not evidential enough, I am sure the Africans who are converting to Christianity do not do it for you. But wait a minute, I know that Americans, Whites, Spanish, others and Blacks, who are muslims and more are on the way must amount to something. No? Then how about the European whites? You must have seen some in UK! NO? Then look hard man. Stop selling a dead issue. Your father is a Hotelier in Nigeria. He is a Yoruba man and claiming that you have another father, should upset everyone. I know if Lai or Dunwo were to come up on me to announce another father somewhere, I will have to sue their Mom for not telling them who is daddy, with all the look alive and no possibility of another man getting to her, in the days! Lol. My mother was a better Christian in the days that any Christianity you will ever attain, even if you become a 10 times born again. Proof; to have been my father's wife and she did not convert was a major fit, with the fact that she raised children, kind enough to make my Ramadan meals. She cooked and eat the pork, like good Christians, and cooked the Frijole, I think every "good Friday!" But by Allah, am happy that she left Christianity and my responsibility is to shower her the more with the best a child can do for a mother!

I had met many born again, including Nuns; both white and black who are now Muslim; Sheikh Yusuf Estes is one of them. He is the operator of www.Islamtoday.com!

again you are getting it wrong,most of your questions on these forums have been a wrong interpretation of the bible either deliberately or not, the easiest way to say this is that jesus christ would have called only sinners and wicked people names,in spite of that he would forgive them totally and unreservedly once they can admit to their sins and ask for forgiveness with a promise that they will go and sin no more, is that condition not fair enough?
he chased money changers,selling birds and stuffs out of the temple, imagine oshodi or lagos island,inside a supposedly holy place,now a random man comes and volunteers to upturn the chaotic situation,without thinking of his own safety,he could be mugged or beaten yet he didnt care about the pain,as what he allowed himself to go through later at crucifiction indicates, what did mohammad do at the hint of impending harmhe ran away to another city,with his tail between his legs, you dont know the meaning of violent temper sire, anger at the desecration of an holy place,is different from violent temper,which is what mohammad normally has like the time he was soo enraged with a poet and leader Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf killed/assasinated, go and check it out,he even paid blood money in compensation,a prophet supposedly holy and who muslims are to emulate??

Should there be an interpretation at all, from the Bible? Okay let me test your knowledge: Interprete these two sets of verses and show me what each set really means: Mark 12 verse 29: Hear yea oh Israel, your God and my God is but One Lord. The other is I and my father are One. These two are reported to come from the lips of Jeus, yet completely 180 degrees from each other. The other is from Act which says Jesus your servant who You sent and the other was the there are three that bear witness in heaven, father son and ghost. Now, tell me the interpretations.

I thought the Governor of Lagos state is cleaning up Lagos, and who appointed Jesus to chase out the moey exchangers? Lol. The crucifixion indicated differently; he did not grin and bear it, since he cried out; Eloi, Eloi, and not my father my father, a complete proof his postion regardless of what you say about the situation! Did Muhammad (AS) suffer less than anyone in history? hardly and remember you called him a "killer, a warmonger, etc?" Would a man like that be such a person who ran away and yet you have said that the arabs are warmongers. No? See in the long run Muhammad (AS) as his bold followers prevailed. Thats strategem of war. And kindness of Muhammad remained when people urinated in the mosque, in Madina where Muhammad (AS) was not a weakling but a very strong leader! I already entered the story in an explanation, and you can research it and compared it the best situation of any man you can imagine!

i agree with you,but homosexuality is more prone in the middle east and amongst middle easterns,same thing as alcohol consumption in spite of their islamic religion, the bible trells me too that if somone slaps my cheek,to turn the other cheek,if i am offended to forgive,the bible tells me that i should love my enemy and pray for them,and also that irrespective of whatever biblical knowl;edge or annointing,the greatest and most important edict of the lord we must obey is to love one another, not fellow christians but every body unlike islam which calls ome people apes and pigs,vile dogs and warns muslims not to make friends with non muslims

In my days, Yinka Rose was probably the only homosexuals that i know in Yorubaland! Today, I have been told there are many in my yorubaland, with all the pretty iyabos and yemisis around without "husbands"! Can you believe that? Even igbo men are now into it, a people who known here in the USA to be "to the last penny spender." We must never forget that middle east is ingabitted by Muslims, Christians, Jews and others. So the homosexuality in middle east can even be expected rightly or wrongly on the Muslims, but I guarantee you, the Christians and Jews are not without their proportionate share. More over, a person can be accused wrongly, and I have been accused here on Nairaland. Alhamdulillah I love Islam enough to ignore it and not show that I could never be it to the speaker; seeing is always believing!

Finally all the slapping you cant tell me that you will ignore a huge wrestler and foolishly turn the other cheek. If you loose your hearing or get damaged by the hand of this man hitting your face. The rest of your being better than Jesus is not true; Jesus did not forgive the other thief on the cross who offended him. Jesus did not forgive, pray, or love any of his enemies; The Money changers, the betrayer, thethief on the cross, and definitely the tree he killed! You must be a better person than Jesus, based on your stella quality!

@Godson2009: #351 on: September 30, 2009, 03:37 PM »

abeg go and sit down at the back,are you supposed to be talking as a true muslim woman when the men are talking?go and prepare some food for us to eat,then stay at the backyard behind the curtains with the women like you,to answer your question there is only one credible and truthful account, he committed suicide of his own accord due to the guilty conscience,now go to the back!!

Your education should have let you know that there are Surahs in the Quran that speak about women and their equalities with men. Let me show you one: The Surah that is titled "The woman who argued or dialogue as in speaking out her mind" another is the woman who asked for "divorce" There is only one place that Allah gave information about the man and the woman, because He speaks about their physical strength well known among mankind that man is normally stronger than women. The responsibility of belief lies squarely on the shoulders of each gender 100% irrespective of the other gender! Finally some of the scholars of Islam were Women, and we still have women scholarship in Islam, today. So many confidants of the prophet (AS) were his women companions (RA), as much as the men companions (RA). The first to spend on Islam was a woman (Khadihah (RA)), and the first to be killed for Islam while still in Makka were a couple (RA) Am sure you know that couple in Islam means man and woman combo odf Husband and Wife? Uplawal, so nko to wu e o jere. Women are the protector of men from illicit sex, and I know that if my wife prays in front of me, there is no way I will not long for her. I am protected by her for her not praying in front of me, thank Allah for this mercy. Am sure that nudity of pretty women does not affect Godson2009, because he has the blood covering him!

that is not the point,stop confusing yourself,you said jesus had no right to scatter the money lenders in the synagogue because he didnt build it,and i asked you if you built the kaaba as well,for you to defend its perceived desecration if it happens, it is not a matter of who is human and who isnt,jesus christ came in form of a normal human being,but with supernatural powers which he only used when need be to propagate the gospel,or feed people,now in answer to your comment especially the last four or five lines,does the fact that his religion was not reffered to mean anything?
if you want to see why we identify with him,then go and read the new testament,i will give you specific chapters if you want,including one where he said he did not come for only the jews but the gentiles and everyone else,he always took the m,ain all through the bible to make it known that he was for everybody and died for alll our sins

Forget reading your Bible. I had enough of it in High School, and hanging around varieties of Christians. Listen, if you use me to illustrate the position of biblical Jesus, I am honored but not worthy, so let the cup pass over this Olabowale. And referencing that is accurate is very relevant and means alot, considering that it gives identity to the source. The reason Islam stands above all are two folds; Unlike Christianity, the prophet identified with islam practised the same religion as his followers. The second fold is referencing the Judaism, as a tribal religion, while islam is not baed on any tribe. Finally, in grouping the Jews and Christians together in their deficiency vis a vis Islam is that they are man made, and neither Musa nor Isa was a Jew or a Christian respectively, and Muhammad was a Muslim. Each of these three people (AS) prostrated their faces to Allah their Creator! Muslims still do that. There are still Jewish sect and Christian sect which are still prostrating, today, and it is clear to me that Jesus and his disciples didnot clap hand like the sugar hill gang "rap song of the 1970s", and there was no live bands and organ playing either, and this is what we have of Christianity today :dancing "Mukulu mukele, " (Lol). How you develop your doctrine and service protocol, are on you, and Jesus bin Mariam has nothing to do wit it.

[Quote]no sire,i disagree with you,my family were conservative anglicans,i am a born again christian,as for islam,i dont need to prove anything to you,at the risk of sounding my own horn,i think the few direct comments i.e verses have stood me in good stead as to my knowledge of your islam,on the flip side however,it has been like easy due to the amount of inconsistencies i found or read, didnt your own quran say that allah abrogates because of his infinite widom?
yet when it comes to the real truth of immaculate conception,you have difficulty in accepting it, i will use the same quranic verse to answer you,are you wiser than GOD?
is there anything GOD is incapable of doing?so why are you suprised?[/quote]You hined your argument on Immaculate conception. What is immaculate conception?Is that enough to call a man GOD? I am asking myself, where is it that Quran denies that Jesus son of Mary was a child without a human father? It is you christians who will on one hand call Mary a virgin but say on the other hand, Joseph the carpenter got her pregnant with two additional sons, and claiming this man as the step father of Jesus, which am assuming that you must know that the Jewish tribal man will have sex with his wife. No? Ten tell me how she is still a virgin!

Islam takes the opposite condition on this. Islam said what is appropriate, but Christianity said the opposite, from their own argument, as if they say a man is now a woman; same situation because what makes a man are different from what makes a woman a woman; each are different and separate!

@Godson2009: « #323 on: September 26, 2009, 01:26 PM »

AGAIN,you still dont get it, while i appreciate the fact that everything is a gradual process,especially when learning in life,like you have used the analogy of a 5 yrs old and all that however from what i understand from the quran, mohammad was not a normal human like me and you,he was a prophet![/b] [b]have you heard of the saying, to whom much is given,much is to be expected,if you read the parable of the 10 servants who their master gave money to in the bible you will get an idea of what i am saying,

The gradual weaning is not that of Muhammad (AS), it is of the community. The moment Muhammad became a prophet, then a messenger to mankind, he was making Salah and night salah (Quiyamullail) in Makka, yet salah was not commanded until he arrived in Madina! Proof; you said it yourself that a person threw intestines of animal on him in Kaaba while he was making prostration. By the way he did not kill that person, neither did he kill the poison woman. In Makka you could say that he was weak, but in Madina, he was a leader of a strong community with an army, bold people who can fight, unlike the doubters, the betrayers, and the deniers that you have with the other "son of man", why did he not kill in either case? Godson2009, you make me want to rob salt on your open sore.

Finally, who was the "master" in your parable of the 10 servants and whats the relevancy of it? Is Jesus the master or one of the 10 servants? Is there a parable that Jesus was not part of the characters, by inference, since this is a parable, if you know?

mohammad is meant to be a prophet,getting his prophecies direct from his god,therefore he is to be held liable to any later incorrections,omissions,contradictions e.t.c because he decalred that he was a direct messenger of his god true or false?

abrogation with its progressive improvement of the people is completely a correction leading to perfection of the people, not incorrection of the abrogator, or the abrogation. Omission is not even in play here, because a Ph. D. education is not what you bring to a child who is only qualified to absorb a primary school education; the same situation with a person who used to drink hard and get stupid, now being told to be sober for the period of prayers, to the end product of no more alcohol, which they finally accepted and did not depart from Islam! Contradiction is when you say something and you later take it back with something completely opposite and worse. In the case of Allah to His Messenger (AS), choose any issue and you will see that the progression to the perfect decision of the Almighty is directionally improving, taking a completely decayed heart full of evil, to a heart good to be emulated.

I will illustrate this by the consumption of alcohol. The arabs used to be drunks. Islam took them to a sober state and can anyone drop a vice that they are so used to? Yes. But just drop it in one shot and never go back to it? No. Impossible. Ths is the reason Allah in His wisdom through Muhammad (AS) that the process of delivery of people from bad behavior are in baby steps, as to Allah sayings; Oh Muhammad, be gentle/patient with them, otherwise your community may disperse away from you. And Allah says "We do not abrogate a verse except that it is replaced with a better verse or one of equal value (applicable to the present condition as the obrogated was relevant to the past condition." The yorubas say says when a child is old enough to have a mallet he will have it, when he is old enough to have a cutlass, he should have it, each is age appropriate! This is similar to the generic saying: cutting yur cloth according to your clothe, and your size!

[b]therefore it stands to reason that,the only reason he could have later corrected himself so many times,or nullified and abrogated parts of words that came from his own mouth without any cohersion or intimidation is simply because he either made a series of mistakes in his prophecies and proclamations,which means he is a normal human being like you and i especially considering his other vices, or your allah made mistakes with the prophecies given to mohammad,[/b]in that case mohammad is not at fault,but your allah is hence he is prone to errors,mistakes e.t.c

Where is the smartness in your postulation, above? Allah the Almight reveal messages in Quran to Muhammad (AS), a human being so that other human beings, "ordinary men and women" can follow it, elevating their humanity by these. While these people used to drink, and Muhammad (AS) did not, how do you get them to be like Muhammad (AS), to drop drinking and finally emerged sober and they were the standard for generations of Muslims to follow. Until you can proof that the abrogation did not improve the Muslims, then your argument falls flat. Something about me for example; though I have never drank nor smoked, but I consider myself as a born smoker, at list the cigar or tobacco, in a pipe type. It fits my personality. But because Islam frowns against this thing that could lead to what I will say as "killing me softly" killer, I do not even try it, but developed hatred for it, smell and all! How; I wean myself from it, because I think that it may be my demise in the long run, since I have an older brother who I see what cigarette turned him to as a not fully healthy man!

now i want you to choose one or all of the above,because one or all of them seems to be the only plausible explanation for the contradictions, especially as you have not given any other convincing argument,do you see us using analogy to answer direct questions when talking about christianity?

While Muhammad did not have to be weaned from sexual promiscouity, or drunkenness, or other vices, that the others had to be detox from, in a proverbial "12 Steps", can you see that it is therefore absolute wisdom that te Quran gave them the easiest way out to leave those vices? I personally can relate to this process in my own life; be it in my dawah or relationship with anyone at all. What a person loves, it you wanna stop them from doing it, it has to be in baby step process, and therefore it is patience you must exercise, and feed him or her as appropriate. When you have a baby, the first thing the mother does is put the breast against the babies lips, whereby he is coasted to opening and feed from it. In time it becomes something that she recognised. After few months, he is introduced to other foods, water, and juices. Before long, some semi hard food, mash potatoes, or purees of fruits and others are good example. Finally he eats hard food whereby mom's milk is not important anymore. I bet if you are asked to suckle milk from momnow, or at 5, you would have said no then and definitely no, now. Right? The muslims, and not Muhammad were treated like that; leaving evil of their tribes in a baby steps processs, and moving towards the purity of goodness; Islam, as appropriate.

Few years ago, I met a new muslim who I would not have dicussed women, exual relationship with his girlfriend then, except that he mentioned that he had a girlfriend, she has not known that he was a muslim yet, while he has became aone for say 3 weeks. I had to tell him that Islam does not allow the free sex, and anything goes that happens with other religion, he being Christian before the reversion. Iman had entered his heart enough, since he chose the religion freewill. He accepted my explanation, not telling him to throw the woman out, since i am certain that he must have love for her, but to tell her his new religion, and tell her what the religion speaks about when it comes to sex! Surprising enough, this 21 or2 years old man told his 20 year old girlfriend, who was hindu, and she became a muslim, the following day, and of course she married him. Thank God, Allah the Almighty, who made them accept Islam and they are still together, probably with Children now. They moved to Virginia, and the incident was 2002, after 911!


By the way, I was just listening to news where a family adoted monkeys and call them their daughters. I say to myself, this is an action of the personal desire of these "parents" with "baby monkeys!"

Now transfer that to huma to human relationship! Same as in personal desire of man, the truth is that they do not have "blood relationship!", and it is the blood relationship that can stop people from being sexually involved, or actually where true family relationship can not be doubted. A young man was proposing to his step sister the other day, a thing that will be accepted by people who have wisdom, while his proposal to his blood sister, who was raised separately from him to the point that you will say that they are completely strangers to each other, will definitely be frowned upon for the simple fact that they do have the same blood!

is olabowale still telling lies?

Learn a lesson or two from "Godson2009". I may not agree with him, and his unfounded assumptions, be has displayed strength, gut and spine in standing up, sticking with the topic! He at least has something to say, and not just saying "does it make sense, and other light weight comments!" He has not taking up the garb of arrogance and stupidity from the others who call people in their fathers age group (born in the 1950s) agbaya, or adodi (a man who raised two well cultured sons in the urban jungle of New York city, and still a husband of wives, and hoping for more children), and silly commentaries, holding grudges for nothing for years, calling a successful business man "Maiguard"; I wonder if there is a man in Nigeria that will employ me so that I can ruin him and his wife or wives divorce him and disgrace him and shame his son who thinks that I could be his father's maiguard?

I will dialogue with anyone with good manners, and I will ignore any, older or younger than me who curses and copy terrible manners from people! Is there a yoruba father in Nigeria or anywhere who is homosexual? I doubt it, not likely and this Olabowale does not fit the picture; My interest in women is against it, my yorubaness is against it, my manhood and manliness is against it, and my Islam is completely against it!

Even though my dialogue here is not to deride any person's good will that has been recognised, if true, without self agandraisement by any single person, I will dare to compare and elevate Muhammad (AS) in any similar thing done by any entity who has ever walked the surface of this earth!

1). When it comes to the matter of money changing, whereby Jesus of the Bible turned over the table of the dubious exchangers, in order that he stopped them, which was really his effort to "fulfill" the laws of the prophet of old; Moses, etc, Muhammad (AS) in the farewell address said as a lasting and etching the Quranic injuctions, in Surah Baqarah (2 places), Imran, and Nisaa (1 place each), "The Ribah own to "Abbass bin Abi Mutalab, (his uncle making charity begins at home a thing that he practised) is under my foot (never to be paid Abbass (RA).

2). We see that Jesus of the Bible threw a temper tantrum, and am sure the Money excahngers got away from him because he probably scared them, being a younger person, full of raw energy. He probably made enemies out of them, ightly or wrongly, but it is very clear that you do catch more flies by using honey than when you use vinegar with all its tanginess and pungency. Muhammad (AS) was gentle with a man who urinated in the mosque, infront of him and his many companions. He held back the companions who were eager to stop the man, probably beat him for his uncouth behavior. Muhammad asked after the man finished that a companion go throw water on the spot so that the urine is diluted and make the place fit for Salah again, at the same time called the man and gently told him, without blaming him, "Mosque is for three (3) purposes; Salah, recitation of Quran and remembrance as in Dhikr".


Could these man Muhammad (AS) be less than any Messenger/Prophet in humility and in piety to Allah, mercy to people and a comfort to the hearts of people who are sincere in knowing him?

A true Ahadith, and I dare any person to proof me wrong then I will present this noble ahadith: Jibril came to Muhammad with the verse of Quran where Muhammad was confirmed as a means of mercy. Muhammad asked Jibril, Oh Jibril, if ama a mercy, have you benefitted from this mercy? Jibril responded that Oh Muhammad, before you, I used to deliver revelations to the prophets, or the messengers with Books; Jesus, Moses among them, I was always concerned with my firmness in my delivery of message, until Allah says of me and my delivery of messages to you that I am a truthful message carrier from Him to you. It is this verse from my Lord, oh Muhammad (messenger of Allah) that makes my "heart" settles and peaceful that I am doing my job and have received favor and full Mercy from Allah! This is further explained by the fact that Israfil, the one incharge of "blowing the horn" for the last day/begining of judgement, that he remain wide eyed, afraid to blink from the time he was given that responsibility, since he does not have the knowledge of "the Unknon time, a future ting, when Allah will give Command for this time, known Only by He, The Creator." This supports what Jesus said, what Muhammad said, and what Jibril said that the Only One who knows about the "Time of the Hour", is God/Eloi/Oluwa/Obangiji/Chukwu/Allah, alone"!

2.he told his followers to leav the people of the book if they were not ready to convert to islam e.t.c later he brought out the sword verses,which abrogated all other cordial verses towards other religions,where he enjoined his followers to kill cut off the fingertips of all unbeleivers e.t.c

I grin, then shake by head. Please show me the verses where people of the Books; Jews and Christians be singled out to be killed of have their fingertips cut off? This is the M. O. of the enemies of Islam; talking emptiness and no subsatnce. I will love to see how you will proof the validity of your allegations.

3.he supported idolatory and even inserted elements of idolatory in islam which is still prevalent till date,yet he contradicted himself by saying his followers should kill polytheists

The Ifa worshippers, and others in Yorubaland, eat Kolanut, drink water. Is there anything in Christianity where they drink water? Now tell me the idolatry that Islam has, when before they started out by disagreeing with idolatry, the very reason the whole of Quraishi of Makka was angry with him and his supporter! I want you to think heard and show matriculated reasoning about this! Could it have been possible for the people to go against him if he showed a sincilla of sign of idolatry? You must be a strange man, unable to be honest in dialoque.



I will respond to every post this weekend. My busy life is keeping me busy for the next few, but will take some time out of the weekend for a thorogh address of your stories.

« #369 on: Today at 06:04:16 PM »

ill just cut to the chase instead of all this rigmarole we v been having, at the risk of repeating myself for the upteenth time, some of the contradictions are as follows in the quran
1.he admitted that raiding traders was indeed a heinous thing,however,his convenient revelations from his allah,said that he is justified,because the meccans persecuted him and his followers while they were in mecca,first of all these traders were not from mecca,but going to mecca,secondly why steal,maim and kill traders even if they were meccans just because they persecuted you"" not killed you?? explain this

Earlier you said Yemeni,until I corrected you! Fela said enu opuro ki seje. The lagos slang in my days is oje marina fese gungo koma seje! How can you be believed?
You lie by the dozens. Raiding, maybe you need to look into your Bible and you will see raides into the communities of Canninites, Jebusites, Hittatites, the people of Jericho and Jerusalemby the Children of Israel who holds your salvation, and Jesus your love, the servant of God, whom He sent was from them! It is human nature to want to take back your stolen or confisticated properties. I dont blame those who will demand their rights back. I dislike Awolowo, the same way my father disliked him and I intensified my dislike for him when in 1973, in family meeting, my older siblings showed proof that Awolowo by eminent domain for the Old Western region took for 5 shillings per hectare large among of land from my father (ra), yet we never got paid, a penny! I am bent even right now, many decades after the fact to get the land back, or sue the estate of Awolowo for his thiefery! How then do you think people, a group who are now powerful not demand for their things back?


You said your father owns a hotel or many. If somebody or group of people snatch it/them from your family, you will be a disgrace not to dislike the "stealing of it" from your heritage! Thats the condition of people. The way people work! Am steal waiting for your proof of the killing, the stealing from the traders, except if you are just just fighting empty for Jesus, who really does not care for you, since you desert his religion and you are not from his nations of children of Israel.

Smart people would go ask the Jews whom the salvation still belongs about why Muhammadin is still in their Book and who is Muhammadin or what is Muhammadin?

I know what Muhammadin is and who he is (AS). I say Muhammadin everytime I make tashahuud just before I say anything about Ibrahim (AS)!

I wanna see how you make prayer to Eloi about Abraham, or do any of you remember him, at anything in the day? Yet he is the father of faith? The father you only use his name when its convenient for you and dont remember, except you are going to give us a song and dance like the magicians of the house of Pharaoh. At least they became believers (Muslims) when they say the miracle from the hands of Musa (AS), while they only performed magic!

a corrupt cop, still wears the uniform. if his boss and others ask him to haul in a person arrested already handcuffed, shall we say that the defense team will ask the judge to throw out the case, because the cop who simply brought him in, not th one who busted him, is corrupt and thats the only ground for this motion?

The judge will deny the motion, because the fact of the matter is that the corruption of this cop has nothing to do with the fact that a crime warranting arrest was committed by the criminal!

True that the Bible is corrupt. No one says that everything in the Bible is corrupt, lie. Here about Muhammad (as), is part of the remnants of truth still left in the Bible. Allah says in the Quran, the people of the Books know Muhammad (AS) as a prophet as much as they know their own children as their offsprings! This part of Song of Solomon confirms exactly that verse of the Quran.

While you guys are reeling in lies of "Greek's most ancient" manuscript, the Jews in their stubbornness, rejected Jesus who was from them and it was by the Power of Allah that what remained of Muhammad remains.

« #15 on: September 28, 2009, 10:26 PM »
@poster
i dont believe several days later,you still have not responded to my questions and assertions o,wernt you the one that challenged us to ask questions? imagine a mujahideen running away from challenge,yet mohammad told you not to stop untill you forcefully or otherwise convert unbelievers to islam

I will not be surprised if the threaad starter does not return, based on the Vulture syndrome of the christians by swamming on him, without being orderly.

If he returns, or not, as far as am concern he had answered enough of your concerns, and for those who have wisdom will think about doing their own research into Islam, while the three gods are for the time being shelved!

The man put his cards on the table, his time, his efforts, his rule. None of you deemed it direct enough. Look at his first entry, below.


Posted by: abulbanaat
Insert Quote
Make it sensible. The moment you derail from my self-imposed rules, I quit and no qulams. As for my rules, I keep them to myself. But being sensible guides them all.

@Godson2009:

so you dont know what dar al harb territory means??   by the way the crusades had nothing to do with religion,go and read their stories and how they ended up at the top,and then killed off by the king of france, e.t.c

My responsibility is keeping me away from the tons of responses to have for me. I take it that you are so eager to dialogue that you do not let me respond to you before you pile up more respnses.

Thats not how to dialogue. I will respond to what my time permits, but its interesting that you ask for miracles, and I gave you a laundry list, you ask for forgive, I gave you verses and then give you names of people and individuals forgiven, you could not defend what Jesus said about people you turn everything to either over simplifications of the importance of what the entity said, making him excuses that he did not deserve. Can you imagine me making excuses for Muhammad (AS), and since you consider Jesus as God, me making excuses for Allah?

Your process does not wash and I am certain that if your dissertation was like this, and the awarding committe were atheists, you will have to defend you papers hard, but am sure the protestants were happy at your convoluted and anemic presentation!! I will deal with as much as I can, knowing fully well that you avoided all that I gave and including my true to fact that no son can ever be the husband of the Mrs. of his father, hence he is not papa. Abi you know if it can ever be possible in your lifetime and be acceptable in the society without any rolling of the eye, shaking of the head in disgust, and no side talk about it? Are you for real.

Abelieving woman does not marry a disbelieving man. By Allah, Christians are disbelievers. Now Mazaje, take that to te Bank. Oh, the Rabbi sang out the name of Muhammad (AS) as Muhammadin in Songs of Solomon. Check it out in the new thread in the Muslim's baby Board!

Now thats the truth. As usual, the ranting Christians are going to either be blind or deny the truth. They should take it up with the conservative Jews in London, but I bet they will prefer to remain ignorant.


Allahumma Salli ala Sayidina Muhammad wa ala ally Sayidina Muhammadin.

Just like Soul is created and the full details of it is unknown, Allah says He created Heavens and Earth in 6 days, is that not enough answer for you? Are the other planets and celestral elements, not either parts of heaven to you, or if you look at heavens starting from the edge of the first heaven, then all the planets and celestral elements not part of earth then?

Allah says the nourishing/nourishments are done in 4 days, and nothing says that Allah just created earth, without creating anything else at that time. Nothing says that Allah created heavens and He didnt create anything else at that period. Allah says He created the nourishments and He did not say that He was not creating other things, either the earth or the heavens or both, in part as creation continuum at that time.

Aloy.Emeka, let me put you to a test, your Bible said that the sight of people say far into the "GATE" of heaven, and say all the way "dove" flight to earth until it rested on a head and a voice was heard from that far away, even as ordinary people witnessed it, why is it so difficult for you to accept the ordinariness of this creation capability of the One Who can creat it? I call Him Allah as a Muslim, and Olorun as a yoruba man, and you call Him Chukwu or Chineke as Igbo, and Abuzola calls Him Obangidi, are you not satisfied with the answer, or are you finding ways to fit all the creations to more than 6 days, to maybe 7 or what exactly, since you know that there is no 8 days in a week, considering that you Christian God rested for a whole day?


Let me tell you something, Adam (AS) as man was created on Friday after Salatul Asr and before Salatul Magrib (Sunset)! Thats detailed enough!

@No2Atheist:

4. Ishmeal lived amongst a particular Arab speaking people , HOW CAN U LIVE AMONGST THE ARABS AND THEN STILL BE THEIR FATHER . . . .SOMEONE IS LYING.

Abraham lived amongst a particular semitic Hebrew speakin people when he left Ur, HOW CAN U LIVE AMONGST THE HEBREWS AND THEN STILL BE THEIR FATHER . . .SOMEONE IS LYING.


And No2atheist, this black man, Olabowale is a believer who is heading to Paradise, while you and Arab Christian Palestinian Anoosh Sorosh will enter Hell if you want it or not, except that you become Muslim(s) before you die!

wondering is not always wonderful!

When they wonder around it is because they have no clue about the truth!

Look at the humongous sky; the space and all, as far as the eye can see;

Is there a god with the One God Who created it?

The Jewish Rabbi says Muhammadin, and somebody is saying "does that make any sense!"

They should go ask the Rabbi who said it, or at least get smart and do some research about this!

Am laughing that Aloy.Emeka, a man who is very smart does not know that he is a Kufar! Hello, every non-muslim is a Kufar. In Islam there are two classes of people; Believers; Muslims. Others are disbelievers; Kufar.

It is in the same vein as in all entities; God; Creator. Others are creations, Jesus is one of us (creations).

@Aloy~emeka:

Don't let Afenifere declare you a Kafir.

I will support all muslims, not only hausas, but all muslims. Thats include all calabar, Ijaw, Igbo, and foreign Muslims! I dont care for Afenifere, because am not foolishly and stubbornly ethnocentric! You should have known that. No?

When you become muslim, I will love you more than I care for Noetic, or davidylan who is almost like a son to me.

On one hand Jesus says in Matthew 5:22, ”But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

On the other hand Psalm 14:1 ”The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” And, in Matthew 23:17 Jesus says “Ye fools and blind(to the pharisees): for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?”



Context: When Jesus said in Matthew 5:22 that we should not call anyone a fool, He was talking about those who did so in unrighteous anger. What do I mean by context? Anger is the main subject of the verse. There is such a thing as a righteous anger which is not sinful (Ephesians 4:26 – “Be ye angry, and sin not:. . .” ) as well as unrighteous anger that is sinful (James 1:20 – “for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.”).

As for Jesus calling the Pharisees fools, that’s a different story altogether. When God is angry with someone, He always has a righteous reason for His anger. Therefore, He is righteous in His anger. Jesus, being God in flesh ( John 1:1,14; 20:28; Colossians 2:9), can righteously be angry, especially to the Pharisees, and call them like He sees them. And so you have Matthew 23:17. God does not contradict Himself in calling someone a fool, especially when it is true. He would contradict Himself if He did not call sin what it is.

In the end, Jesus’ condemnation of calling someone a fool is in the context of righteous anger. Because Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees in righteous anger when He called them fools.Therefore, Matthew 5:22 doesn’t even apply to Matthew 23:17

After reading the above, I just have to laugh with Uplawal, at Godson2009!

you see the duplicity already in your quran?how will you know he said or didnt say it if you wernt there?everything you are working on is solely based on "it cant have been" it isnt so based on the say so of this and that", even the quran itself shows this confusion because it is neither arranged numerically or chronologically, it is not arranged according to the way the prophecy came bringing in further confusions,in fct the book should be aptly named"the book of confusion"

The Uniqueness of the Quran is underscored by the fact that at the end the Jigsaw puzzle of revelations of verses and chapters, when completed fit to one another perfectly! Surah Anfal fitting with Surah Tauba. I am asking you to tell me where you find discrepancies, a single one, and all you say is "its not arranged in cronological order of revealed verses and chapters!" Thats not a good reason, because a writer can give you the end of his story, a fiction and begin to fill in the gabs, writing the middle part and ending it up with the beginning! The important thing is that the story makes sense when you read it, and the genius of the writer shows when the book is not edited, or versioned, or reedited and even when in paperback still has everything that the hardback has. Finally, the book that can not be dublicated and has a language of its own and when a person makes a mistake the book stops you, makes you conscious of your mistake and until you correct yourself, if you are intentionally making the mistake, you will be tongue tied!

That book is the Quran, still in the ORIGINAL Language the Fusat accented Arabic!

you are so good at analogies,yet when you are given one,you intentionally feign ignorance or indifference, in african tradition do you ealise that a first son is like part of the father??go and ask about the ibo tradition,if the father dies,the first son inherits everything,he automatically owns the family house even if his mother is alive, he is more like a second daddy or "daddy inside daddy"because they are one,

This first son; can he sleep with the Mrs? If he cant then he is not Daddy! Understand that, because is the one that sleeps with the Mrs. The rest are liars!

for you to adequately understand,check out the importance of a first born and then son,to any father especially if they look alike,and he is obedient,kind gentle everything his father expects, same thing as the hausas,where the first son is almost revered,the mother of the first son addresses and takes care of the first son same as she would the father.

Am a father of two grown sons. Bot look like spitting image of daddy, me! Lai can never be Oko mommy, lailai! Neither will Dunwo! And the Igbo man knows that he is always a son, and cant enter bedroom and excite the Mrs., the job of Father! Please Godson2009, stop pushing the envelopes, God is God and Jesus was human prophet for the obtrusive children of Israel.
#

Muhammad Confirmed Unknowingly By Rabbis
« on: Yesterday at 10:57:57 AM » See the video of the Jewish Rabbi singing the song of Solomon, in the Muslim' baby board.


Continue with your excuses. When I said "I swear by Allah", you said I was showing anger, but a person who called people "FOOLS" you said a righteousness anger! It gets better. What is it when he called them dogs, ar aevil generation, etc? I think he is praising them, what the yorubas say "Onsa won, onki won" etc, I think. No?

JazakAllahu Khair, broter Frizzy.

Nezan is stuck in a rot of swearing like a drunken sailor! Aloy~Emeka, I hope you are satisfied, some?