₦airaland Forum

@abose; « #56 on: September 09, 2009, 02:03 PM »

An Efik/Ibibio "olabowale",
Is the water in New York really that bad to affect your ability to make any sense in your posts?

I thought I was talking to adults who could reason by reading between the lines? Sorry, I did not know that there are infants and children who dont have grownup thinking cap on.

Finally, not an excuse on my part, but during the day, I have a lot going on, so sometimes, I overlook my writing as I come back to it, being interrupted many times, in the process before I post.

But then we are talking about False prophet and none of the things that the Bible posted that expose false prophet fits Muhammad and not common to Moses, and or any other before him, including Jesus (AS)!

@Jagoon: I guess you made a big time mistake by your accusation!

Abuzola; fi sabilIllah, dont curse.

@Nezan: « #1 on: Today at 06:28:38 PM »  

Muhammad's response is that people in the time of Mary would refer to a pious young woman as the "sister of X," where X might be a prophet from 1400 years earlier. The problem is that we have no record of such a practice in first century Israel, and we don't even find it used elsewhere in the Qur'an. The obvious conclusion, then, is that Muhammad simply made a mistake, and that he tried to correct it by making something up.

If Muhammad (AS) is wrong, how come Jesus is called son of King David, except it is in the same motiv as what Muhammad (AS) said when the Quran called Mariam the mother of Isa bin Mariam (AS) sister of Haruun (AS)? Please separate the two and I wanna read your magician gimmick.

Two more points are worthy of note in al-Muslim's hadith. First, the Christians of Najran knew nothing of the practice of referring to pious young women as the sister of some prophet, even though they would have been familiar with traditions about Mary. Second, the Muslim who talked to them obviously didn't know that this was a figure of speech, since he was stumped by the refutation and had to go back to Muhammad for an answer. Thus, Christians knew nothing of the practice Muhammad referred to, and Muslims who had been reciting the Qur'an in Muhammad's presence were never told that "sister of Aaron" was a metaphor. Indeed, they only learned this when Muhammad had been accused of erring.

Igbo people and Hausa people and other Nigerian tribes, though all Nigerians, do they know every bit of every traditions of each tribe; the minor as well as the major? The Bini people and Yoruba people have the same common bloodlines in Nigeria, yet not all Bini traditions are known by all Yoruba people, and the opposite is the same.

But things get even worse. The father of Moses, Aaron, and Miriam was a man named Amram (Arabic: "Imran":

1 Chronicles 6:1-3--"The sons of Levi were Gershon, Kohath and Merari. The sons of Kohath were Amram, Izhar, Hebron and Uzziel. The children of Amram were Aaron, Moses and Miriam."

Hence, if Muhammad really believed that Mary the mother of Jesus was the same person as Miriam the sister of Moses and Aaron, it wouldn't surprise us to find Muhammad referring to Mary as "the daughter of Imran." Not surprisingly, this is exactly what we find in the Qur'an and the Hadith:

Think hard man. Will it be imposssible that Mariam's father the mother of Isa bin Mariam was a namesake of Haruun and Musa' (as) father? Was Saul who later became Paul not namesake of King Saul, the first king of the Children of israel, who was the king when little David king giant Goliat? I am pointing these to you just to gear your memory to life, so that you see how correct Quran and Muhammad (AS) were!

Qur'an 3:35-36--"Behold! When the wife of Imran said: 'O my Lord! I do dedicate unto Thee what is in my womb for Thy special service: So accept this of me: for Thou hearest and knowest all things.' When she was delivered, she said: 'O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child!'--And Allah knew best what she brought forth--'And no wise is the male like the female. I have named her Mary, and I commend her and her offspring to Thy protection from the Evil One, the Rejected.'"Am a yoruba man. And am called Omo Oduduwa. Who is Oduduwa? I have never seen him and as far as am concern, if I follow Nezan's thought process as in the argument he is making against Mariam and her mother being called sister of Haruun (as), and wife of Imran, the name sake of Haruun's and Musa's (AS) father, respectively, the youbas and all those who call them that are wrong and probably delutional!

But then Nezan and the Bible ad all Christians, call Jesus son of David, son of his stepfather capenter Joseph and surprisingly Adam (AS) the first man! They also call Jesus son of Abraham, son of Jacob! You guys are complaining about Muhammad (AS) who is sincere that this is the way the people back then honor people deserving honor?

Let meask you, how is Jesus son of King david, except that it is a matter of you Christians honoring him, attaching him to the nobility of David? If David is from the blood line of Jacob, and haruun is from the same bloodline, is this not as clear as the day that they are truly haruun's bloodline?

Oh Nezan, son of Adam (AS). Sorry. I forgot you are not one of the Children of Adam.


Nezan is living today long time after Mariam mother of Isa bin Mariam (AS) lived, while Adam lived long time before Haruun (AS)

Allah is your Lord thats why.

Muhammad (AS) is His Messenger.

By the way, you live in the prophetic period of Muhammad (AS) and not any earlier messenger (AS)!

These are good reason for rational and sane people to belief in Allah and His Messenger (AS)!

@PastorAIO: « #413 on: Today at 04:59:21 PM »

But if I invite you to come and dance at Igogo festival will you dance? yes or no? Make Oronsen bless you well well with better tings. Which Owo man wants to refuse that. Even if he is only half Owo.

The last time I see something like that was 1972! I will not attent it, and if they are doing it in the November of any year that I am in Nigeria, I will not be in Owo, for sure. My Owo and my Ijebu are both repressed by Allah for Islam. Yet you know about the Ojomo and Olowo clans; both are what my dear mother is! Grandma was Ojomo's daughter and Grandpa was Olowo's son.

The nudity and all the idolatry are against Islam and I am a believer in Monotheistic line of Islam. You must must be an Owo boy? I was at Ajasin's school in the days, and that was my stinct with Owo! Whats Oronsen? I know about Igogo for sure.

@Noetic15: « #34 on: Today at 01:59:47 PM »

and fortunately for xtians, it is an ignorantly delusive slave of allah that would help us understand the bible

Slave of Allah will help you undersatand the Bible, ignorantly delutional or not!

make up your mind. . . .first u claim the bible is "corrupt", now u are desperately trying to find mohammed in the bible
do u need any other confirmation that islam is a fraud?

Listen to this stubborn pseudo-englishman! You as christian should make up your mind, concerning the OT which you now relegated to a single line; thou shall love your God with all your heart, and your neighbors like yourself, is a complete iconoclastic overview/position aganst the OT itself, even though we read earlier that Jesus said that the OT laws and its prophets must not be obliterated and even a jot, as the smallest of the laws must remain active, warning whoever acts against this or encourages any to act against this, that person will shall be the least in heaven's kingdom! Your turning from Genesis to even Songs of Solomon, etc before the Gospel, to a mere one liner, is either you are saying the OT is not worth more than that one line, being acorrupt book, since a lot of wars were fought in it and its not all love and more love, but real human life and existence, or that the NT itself is corrupt for turning such a book to a single liner? This is why Quran is the moderate book, discarding all the fallacies while keeping the prestine truth of the books of the Children of Israel, in the Quran.

Noetic, disprove the argument we the Muslims are making agaisnt the authenticity of the Taurah, Sabur and Injil, with good reason. To say because we say the bible is corrupt, you therefore assume that everything is incorrect, is silly. Consider that when you chatted with me, you behaved like a pure gentleman, now to me, in your anger at me, you behave like a corrupt hardened man. You see how impure you arenow that you are corrupt, yet you are still a man, male, yoruba, human, nigerian, still noetic in England.

Now thats how you should look at the Bible; viewed through the Muslim's prizm! This does not even approach Muslims, less Islam as any thing fraudulent!

@Noetic15: « #9 on: Today at 02:19:38 PM »

1. why do u rely on the "corrupt" bible to make your case. Jesus clearly stated in the bible that He is the Son of God.

To show your misunderstanding for one, since from it, I can point to him and his disciples who are the best authorities about his true self, more than Paul and or you, Noetic15, that you are wrong, since he was referred as man, prophet, servant! But you stubbornly call him God, but today you call him son of God! Noetic15, make up your mind, instead of going from pillar to post!

2. We have both analysed and agreed that allah is not the God of the OT. . . . .if allah is not the God of the OT, who then is allah.
Allah is subsequently a DEMON. . . . . .

You analysed and agreed with yourself, for the yorubas have God, and that God is the same Who created the everyone in the OT, and beyond and all that was before! The yorubas call that God in English Olorun in yoruba, Allah in arabia, and Eloi in Syriac! And the Quran says that when you are to begin recitation of Quran you seek the protection of Allah against the accursed Demon. Will say this if He is the Demon? Do you seek to deprive yourself authority over anything by keeping it in safety with you in your authority against your authority, especially if you an imposingly evil and greedy authority? That would have been the case if Allah is Demon, then this is not so, because Allah is Merciful, Compassionate, Forgiving, All encompassing. None of these is a value of Demon, unless you know other things about the Demon, more than humans know?

@dexmond:

Isaiah 42:1-3
1Behold, my servant, whom I uphold; my chosen, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street. 3A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth. 4He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.

And this also support the statement that Jesus was a servant! But then, how is it possible that he was to bring justice to the GENTILES when he uphold no single justice, except his statement to his people alone, concerning the issue of adultery which they rejected from him, as it opposed the Mosaic law which he said that he was going to fulfil and admonished others to live by it, on one hand and on the other hand saying that he was but sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

The only time he made any pronouncement after this was give to ceasar whats ceasar's and to God whats God's, and not to me whats mine as God! We need to know that he was advising his people who did not want to pay the Jizya or taxes levied on them by the pagan idolator Rome! Where is any proof that he was but a human, a son, a prophet?

And reading all the other Biblical verses in the same column, above, Mr. dexmond, the nonviolence qualities are more suited on Job who suffered much, or John who was finally beheaded than Jesus who as a youth showed signs of anger by overturning the table of the money changers, declaring later that he came with war and not peace and finally asking people to buy swords  And whats the purpose of thiese swords, if I may ask?

To call him a lamb is injustice to those who are actual lambs; Job, Zachariah and his son John, are better examples. Can you say they offended or caustic to anyone or anything?

@Noetic15: Allah does not say anywhere in the Quran, that He is a Demon. But Jesus said in the pages of the Bible that he was a prophet. I have not said anything that those who followed Jesus, and knew him more than you or I did not say. The disciples said that he was a Servant. Now correct them, not me. I simply regurgitate what was said by these noble men. You can present your argument against what they say.

There is no Muslim that will say that Allah is a Demon. You know that already! If you know differenet, lets hear it. Just like every community, the Makkan's Creator; Allah, is the Ibadan's Creator; Olorun. Where has Demon entered the conversation, now?



@dexmond:

Luke 12:47-48

And that servant, who knew his lord’s will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes];
but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. And to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom they commit much, of him will they ask the more.

This is a good argument to support the Servantry of Jesus to his Lord God the Creator, and not anything else! Thank you.

why cant nezan take time to read, even though he claims its a long post? break it down, nezan into portions for your easy reads!

@Potu: « #406 on: Today at 08:50:11 AM »

I don’t fully understand why you ignore the myths of your forefathers and cling to the myths of Middle Easterners. The inescapable fact is that before Israel or Saudi Arabia, we were! Why should the myths of these people take precedence over your African myths?

I dont live by myth, but by reality! As am Ijebu man, and indeed yoruba, I can actually traceby bloodline to the Middle east. But thats beside the question and not the reason for accepting Islam, while rejecting all others. While Judaism is strictly Israel bloodlines, Islam is not strictly Makka, nor saudi arabia, and not even Arabs, or any specific area or people. Islam is for all people all lands and all the time!

The truth in Islam is what attracts my soul, the spiritual guide of my physical to it. While I can walk away from the Orisha of the Yorubas by just moving to Igboland or outside Nigeria, say Ghana, I can easily move away from the precinct of the Agemo of Ijebu Ode by just arriving in Ibadan. But whereever I am, on the surface of the earth, under it as in a cave, and someday in the grave, or under the heavens or in heaven, even above the 7th heaven, Allah in the Holder of all of these precincts! There is no escaping Him. But then, I submit to Him willingly. I am not arrogant and I am humble before Him!

Is there any but Allah the God and Lord Creator, alone? You ask? I am an atheist just like you! If you fully understand the reasons you reject all the other 21 or even 100 possible Gods; you will understand why I reject yours.

I asked and am not an Atheist. And my reason for rejecting all the other gods, and that of the Ijebu people and even that of Owo as well, is that the worshippers are the makers of their own unable to truly benefit gods! I am interested in my Maker and not what I make with either my hands or heart/mind! This is why I can never be a Christian because they make gods by their heart/mind.

The East has turned knowledge into religion; the West has turned knowledge into power; maybe Africa will someday turn knowledge into life!

If the life that Africa will turn knowledge to is spiritual death, I dont want it. Just like Fir'awn, Kaarun and Haman, I reject their ways and their knowledge and life.

Can a single soul be both and is there a need for God to have a son, like man who needs this in order to further his presence on earth and among creations, until God brings upon Judgement day, the hour that Jesus and others before him and Muhammad (AS) after him, including Jibril's confession about it, do not know?

The lack of knowledge of the time of this Hour is enough to indicate that these entities are not part of God in any authority, except His errant personalities, each serving as servant his purpose between God and man! Why cheapen God's Uniqueness by associating Him with His creation as a father to any of them? You have no authority and it is the saying of your own desire!

@PastorAIO: « #32 on: October 10, 2008, 02:33 PM »

Hey I don't want to sound like a racist. But I suppose I need to know what the criteria are by which I am told that the Germans were the most spiritually capable of getting God's truth. What qualities made them the most spiritual people?

I also do not think that Jesus came to the Jewish because they were the most spiritually advanced. Far from it. And the bible (which I accept you don't take as true) says otherwise

Will the bolded not be going against the grains of the statement of Jesus where he said "I was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Who are the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Who are in the hosue of Israel? Are anyone apart from the 12 nations of the Children of Israel? I dont think so.

The things of the earth will be left behind. No shagging in heaven o; better do all you want to do with all that sperm b4 you check out.

Neither will there be lust, stealing,disobedience, malice, anger, spite, jealousy, and every other vices various spirits try to evoke in our physical nature.

If the things of the earth are left behind, then al things in even will be completely strange to those who make paradise, because they will be new, unfamiliar. So no singing, clapping singing of hymes, praising, etc that the Christians are raving about! But then, since all evil things are out, and not particular with Paradise, and nothing is familiar to the inhabitants, I summise that there will not be any happiness, kindnes, joy, etc and all the good stuff, because according to you, they are things of the earth! No?

In all honesty & seriousness, worship GOD. All these arguments of whose holy book is better, more scientific, plagiarized, evolved etc will not matter.

On THAT DAY, it'll just be YOU and GOD. Your conscience will either keep you away or bring you b4 HIM.

Leave out the bitterness and enjoy your life.

If you dont know the right religion, the way to worship God, in the true way He ordained, then you would have just gone through life, going with the flow, thinking that you worship God, but not really! You need to know the Religion God ordained for mankind, so that you may at least be considered for mercy, instead of being condemned for doing whatever you want, which is claerly wrong, except that you dont know it then!

@bowomolo: « #12 on: Yesterday at 04:05:57 AM »
[quoteactually, all creators except the ones in the ark would be dead right?

[/quote]Actually, no! Judgement is only on humans, remember! Sea and Oceans and big water is where sea creatures live! There is no reason to take them from their homes and return them to the same homes later!


[quote]wasn't that God's plan, 2 of each creature you want to save?

In the localised place that the flood occured. Only land animals that could perished, and not see animals. Now you have to know where the location is, then you will have a good argument, considering that this was very early in the inhabitation of earth by man.

Arguing with common sense, who says a great flood wouldn't have lead to the contamination of the whales habitat?

how, consideringa that at the bigging of time, there could not have been any significan human waste, and definitely any of the petrochemical and indutrial, military/medical wastes that we have in the past 2000 years, if i may over emphasise the issue a bit? Lol. There is no possibility of pollution. You know it and I too, know it.

I hope sleek29 does think? He should have gone to the Jews to ask them what is the meaning of that song in totality? What is it that is totally lovey in that song? Do you sleek29 know? If you do not know I already suggest that you go and ask knowledgeable Jews what it means!

For example Barack in Islam is Mubarackallah or barackallah. The jews have that name as a semitic name, but will a muslim family leaves the Muslim name and call their son jewish barack or it must be Mubarackallah or barackallah?

Now the Quran says that the people of the Books know Muhammad (AS) as they know their own children, so it will not be surprising that Muhammad's name and derivitives of it is on the pages of their books, as well as calling him another comforter!

Now, sleek29, who is the former comforter? Spirit, too, why dont you try Jesus "son" of Mary; a human being?

yes but predominantly muslim, muslim run government,islamic state,laws e.t.c

I do not see any true Islamic state! I repeat I do not know any Islamic state since there is no Kalifah since the last one from Turkey! Thanks to the arabs the house of saud which brought the Lawrence of Arabia and Europeans to act as Shaitan while they act as its helper as shayatin!



[Quote]typical,did jesus behead them l;ike mohammed did??the cheek of it comparing two extremes lol
you might call us fools and mumu,but that is what christianity is,go and check how the disciples died,they died as martyrs stoned,burnt e.t.c for their faith, look at the north where christians are being killed and churches burnt,you dont hear of our reprisals because our own religion doesnt teach us retaliation like the muslims and quranic injunction[/quote]You must be interesting? Cheeks compaing two extremes? Then try this for size; When you are beat up in one extreme, allow them to beat you up in the other extreme! That makes sense to you in explaining the extremes? Now I can laugh; hahahahaha! And the Musims talk about matyrdom and you have a big feat about it? See how you double talk from "both ends?" And then they started out with Crusade against Islam, and Spanish Inquisition, and all the major wars have Christians in front, back and center! The Jesus who said from his own lips, find it in the the Bible, that he brought nothing of peace but war? All of a sudden became the "Lamb"? You must be pulling the lamb wool over my eyes? The Christians are more peaceful than Jesus and the reason the nazi pope was referencing Muhammad but forgot his own god Jesus who said the same thing that he claimed that Muhammad did! Is this not hypocracy if Jesus had the means, the motive was there for him!

@Goodson2009: « #400 on: Yesterday at 09:56:15 PM » You sound like a bitter man since Muhammad (AS) is an iconoclast of Christendom! lol.
[Quote]well,unless you are being naive and burrying your head in the proverbial sand,even the dead know that pentecostal christians are taking over west africa and rapidly expanding to other parts of africa,including esthwhile islamic strongholds like indonesia,malaysia e.t.c
either in uk or the us and elswhere,you can actually count the number of converts to islam,they are that few compared to the number of muslims converting to christianity,you live in america,so i shouldnt be telling you about the mighty churches pentecostal pastors are building every day, the joel osteens,creflo dollas,e.t.c how many mega mosques are in the whole of america compared to the pentecostal churches?
your mother was an old school go to church sunday sunday christian,tell her to show you where it says in the bible that "your righteousness is but a filthy rag in my sight"
im sorry to say your mum was only a righteous christian,not born again
[quote author=olabowale link=topic=321215.msg4655723#msg4655723 date=1)I had met many born again, including Nuns; both white and black who are now Muslim; Sheikh Yusuf Estes is one of them. He is the operator of www.Islamtoday.com!

so?evangelist shitta is a muslim convert too,pastor hamzat is another one and they are both massively annointed men of GOD winning souls for the kingdom,so whats your point

In the case of the former Muslims of Africa including Shitta that you mentioned, it is prospects and wealth that they are running after. I am happy for you that you do not know wht poverty is. A day of poverty will mask a 1000 years of wealth, because as a human being, it is what is current in your life that you remember as sunny ade said; ebi o wo nu koro mii wo be o! This is different from the condition of the Europeans and Americans and the Australians and New Zealand people, who are even doing it even now that Islam is an endangered specie. Tell me what rives the Europeans to Islam, and I have already told you what drives the poor africans to christianity; Money, more money.

if you dont understand these verses,in spite of the varied and lenghty explanations that have been posted on this forum explaining it in details,then it shows your depht of comprehension of biblical insights, from my own understanding,these verses have actually proven that which jesus christ meant without any ambiguity,that is why i am always saying to you that the bible reading is different from studying

I knowthat it is my fault for not taking a human being as God, especially when he says he and the Jews have the same God and Lord!


[Quote]well if that is in your quran,i wouldnt be suprised,especially with all the strange stuffs going on in the book,abeg shopw me where tinubu is in the quran o, i dont doubt you for a second ,mohammed never suffered thats the point,and i repeat he was a sexual deviant,kblood thirsty killer,betrayer extra ordinare,a prophet sending hired killers to kill an individual for satirizing him prophet indeed!!i have done enuff research,and my position about him has not changed he is no better than the likes of tompolo and other millitants,in fact they are better than him,because they are actually fighting a worthy course and never killed innocents[/quote]You never read the Quran or the ahadith! Who is tinubu? Is it oko Remi nee Ikusebiala? Lol. You will not see any of these people in the Quran, but you will be able to determine their good and or bad behavior from it![/quote]

like i pointed out to you in the reply above,there is no logic in your retort defending your prophet,to correct people or your followers,you must have shown them the right way to start with,mohammad pointed them in the wrong way and further complicated issues by mixing things up, check the example of the satanic verses, i presume you know what that is by now??how can you tell your followers that you have come to change idolators,you turn around to speak in favour of their godess,by this time his followers are perplexed,he later turns around again to recant,nullifying the same verse in the quran,if that is your own idea of correction,then i am not suprised that the islamic world is full of bloodshed,confusion,crying and gnashing of teeth while on earth, show me how mohammed corrected progressively in the satanic verses

hpw did he point them to the wrong way: that God is One, Unseen and not a human being and has no parner and a proper name? You do not tell the truth or do you, except that your heart does not accept it: how did Muhammad (as) start out his miission? He gathered his people together and told them all the idols are no use and that Allah is the Qne Viable Lord. This alone, is enough to act against all that you have put forward!

yes allah and your mohammed in conjunction can say anything to justify his position,what did you expect him to saymy followers,im sorry i made a series of mistakes??would anyone have taken him any serious after?please open your eyes of understanding sire, if he was sure of himself and his message,then he wouldnt be playing to the gallery so that people will not run away,go and check the bible's account of jesus christ,he did not mince words right from the get go,untill he was cruxified that is the true mark to show you mean business

Surah Abasa is enough to refute your allegation. Actually the first few verses so that you do not think yourself as important that much!! by the way can you put Jesus in the same condition; going from pillar to post of I am God, I am son of God, I am son of Man, I am a man, while the disciples called him Servant? How about please buy swords, if thats the last thing yoy do, since they have few cloths, short of them being naked, he asked that they only keep what was on their back, in order to acquire these swords, to no one fights? Please tell me the truth; why would a man who started out saying that he came with war not peace all of a sudden be a peaceful man; what gives? Lol.

first of all,have you noticed that this is the 3rd time you are going on about a particular abrogation which happened to favour your mohammad i.e drinking and what not?? why dont you give us series of example,secondly in responding directly to your challenge,the satanic verses and the one where mohammad told you his followers to tolerate other religions namely the jews and christians,now turning around later to tell you to kill and disfigure them is not doing any favours to the folowers of islam,who have been blowing themselves up in thousands in the mistaken believe that 72 virgins are waitingfor them in hell

They say Paradise, you said hell! While you have no Paradise in your christian belief, except that you say heaven and lake of fire, you have been better to say lake of fire or heaven where hell is presently located. I have search the Quran and have not found 72 virgins yet. Could you therefore direct me to it, or you are just putting me on. I have dealt with the satanic verses, but let me just ask this; If abrogated verses are still kept in the Quran, since it only shows the progress from the lowest quality of man to the best of quality that is finally attained, should it not be that the Quran should leave thse satanic verses in the Quran as they have been abrogated? If they are not there, it shows that the Quran did not have them all along, if we take into considerations all the other verses that go against idol worshipping and specificallya whole chapter was dedicated to it, refuting the permissibility of even approaching idolatry; Surah Kafiruu? Further Islam came out of the gate by saying there is no god, except One Sole God, complete in every respect, deserving all worship?

mohammad did not have to be weaned because he was above the law,and he did not want to be weaned,who dared to suggest that to him,with the kind of people he surrounded himself with??his exploits both sexually,his raids e.t.c has more than given us a potrait of the kind of man he was

"Nor does he (Muhammad SAAW) speak of his own desire. It is only an Inspiration that is inspired." [An-Najm: 3-4]. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Shall I take as a Wali (helper, protector, etc.) any other than Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth? And it is He Who feeds but is not fed." Say: "Verily, I am commanded to be the first of those who submit themselves to Allah (as Muslims)." And be not you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Mushrikeen [polytheists, pagans, idolaters and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah]. [EMQ Al-An’am, 6 : 14] "Verily, my Wali (Protector, Supporter, and Helper, etc.) is Allah Who has revealed the Book (the Quran), and He protects (supports and helps) the righteous. [EMQ Al-Ararat, 7 : 196] The right of legislation is for none but Allah. [EMQ Yusuf, 12 : 40] Do not obey the Kafir and the Munafiq. [EMQ Al-Ahzab, 33 : 1] [Say (O Muhammad SAW)] "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Quran), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt. [EMQ Al-An’am, 6 : 114] All of these verses show that Muhammad (AS) like all Muslims was binded by the Quran except where ever its made specific for him; night prayers for example, or marrying more than 4 wives. Surah Azhab started with addreessing him drectly, which means all believers shall not be surprised when the same warning applies to them: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Keep your duty to Allah, and obey not the disbelievers and the hypocrites (i.e., do not follow their advices). Verily! Allah is Ever AllKnower, AllWise. Chapter 33:1. One thing I have learnt about you, is that you are very firm in your determination to not tell the truth. So being abtrusive will not help you against Allah, maybe in the eyes of the ignorants you are a good believer!



[Quote]ANDyou met a guy that converted to islam and later his wife??/r u kidding,do you want me to start telling you all these i have met,bith in church,fellowship that converted from islam to christianity?
free sex is incolcated in your religion,by virture of the fact that your forebearers indulged in such,mohammed and his folowers indulged in free sex,and this is documented[/quote]Please bring out the documentaed "free sex" and below is the position of Quran and Muhammad

"Do not go near to adultery. Surely it is a shameful deed and evil, opening roads (to other evils)" (Quran 17:32).
"Say, 'Verily, my Lord has prohibited the shameful deeds, be it open or secret, sins and trespasses against the truth and reason"' ( Quran 7:33).
"Women impure are for men impure, and men impure are for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity." (Quran 24:26)
"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity, and God is well acquainted with all they do. And say to the believing woman that they should lower their gaze, and guard their modesty." (Quran 24:30-3 1)
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) has said in many places that adultery is one of the three major sins. However, the most interesting story is that of a young man who went to the Prophet. This man asked for permission to fornicate because he could not control himself. The Prophet dealt with him with reasoning and asked him if he would approve of someone else having illegal sex with his mother, sister, daughter, or wife. Each time the man said 'no'. Then the Prophet replied that the woman with whom you plan to have sex is also somebody's mother, sister, daughter, or wife. The man understood and repented. The Prophet(pbuh) prayed for his forgiveness.

i really cant get head nor tail of this comment!

This is exactly how I feel most of the time when I read you, sconsidering that you work hard to defend the indefensible! I dont know how you do it, but I am sure that you are a legend in your own mind! My argument remains that Muhammad's adopted son was not his true son, and the ex wife of this man was not the same as the ex wife of his true son, since Quran says that the ex wife or wife of a father can not be married by the son, hence it is the reverse between father and the wife or ex wife of his son!

Sleek29« #20 on: October 02, 2009, 01:33 PM »

http://www.hlinc-zionsake.org/Mud2-final.html

simple, the word mohammad is an adjective in hebrew, it occurred in a lot of places in the bible, you should stop trying to put this fake prophet in the bible, just because his name is mohammed doesn't make a man who had a huge sexual appetite, had a 9yr old as a wife, killed and ordered others to do the same, A PROPHET.

Muhammadin is what the Jewish rabbi said. But what is the meaning of Muhammad in Semitic language you think the Bible was revealed in? That is the issue, and your putting name in English sentences is the biggest gimmick you and yur Jewish cohorts have perpetrated! Put Muhammadin in the language of Bani Israil and lets see what it truly means!

« #22 on: October 02, 2009, 02:22 PM »
what are muslims afraid of?, the fact that they know that their prophet is indeed not from God?, this has been a way christians has been lured into islam, i was a muslims, i know all of these lies, parakletos or periklytos, put my word in your mouth, ask yourselves this question, did mohammed ever mention this prophecies when he was alive, maybe in the hadith or the quran, did he say sprcifically that he was the periklytos?, this is the person Jesus told us about has all of these qualities:

I shall ask you why are the Christians not capable to see the truth and know that self desire is different from reality of God? What are the Christians afraid of? Now I have answered your questions by the bolded pieces beside your opinions! We are not afraid of anything, afterall, we say Jesus is our prophet, Isa bin Mariam (AS).

Jesus said the parakletos is not a human being: Jesus did not use any Greek word. Jesus did not say the Comforter is not a human being, otherwise how is this another comforter going to be different from the former comforter, the speaking human, etc Jesus? Now know that the characteristics of what is expected to be another comforter is talk, hears and repeats, teacher quality, a correcter of mistakes, and speaker as reminder, etc. Only humans fit these. How would you know that he was told what he was saying, except he says I was told, including the good, the bad and the ugly, he must say evertything without hiding anything.

Read the Quran and see the Surah Abasa speaks against a mere turning of head of Muhammad. While soe of you sees Quran as his convenient revelations to do whatever, why would he reveal this particular chapter about himself?

John 14:16: "he will be with you for ever" (a human doesn't live forever) Teir work does! No? Jesus does not live forever then. This is a fact. Muhammad does not live forever, but the Quran given to him is purely intact. We cant say of the same of the Bible; between Catholic and protestants, it is obvious that some corruptions entered into the Bible!

14:17: "he will be the spirit of truth" (a human is distinct from spirit)And the litmus of prophet, true prophet or false prophet is the quality of his spirit. Did you read that part at all in your Bible; test all spirit if is good, then it is a prophet from God, and if not its a false prophet. No?

14:17: "the world neither sees him, " (a human is visible) Jesus was seen so you proof him as human alone! Lol. But he claimed to be the other comforter talking about another comforter to come. No? You shot yourself in the foot, yet you were supposed to be the safety officer!

14:17: ", nor knows him" (a human would be known by others) He was talking to his people of the future, and at that time they did not know Muhamad, an arab, not a Child of Israel. That itself is the world (Israelite nation) never know this Arab! How will they not know him, later when he is supposed to teach, speak, reminds, etc? You people frustrate me with your baby sitter thinking No initiative at all, This also apply to Jesus, proving him to be human.

14:17: "and he will be in you" (a human cannot be within others) Is Jesus in you? How and was he not because he was a human being that you know about him? Think man. Nigera does not raise too many fools; we ship the men to england.

Jesus said that the parakletos has a specific mission; to point to Jesus: And Mhammad fulfilled what Jesus was all about; his full description, including his long wet hair and the fact that he has a beard. Madness has caused many to bring pictures of nordic europeans to represent a semit. The Children of Israel must be laughing themselves sily in their bars and homes, at the foolishness of the Christians! No? I have heard some Jews call Christians idol worshippers!

14:26: "whom the Father will send in my (Jesus') name" I have already established that there is no father anywhere except your earthly father. Calling God your father while He is your Creator and you are His creation, is you warped personal desire ! Jesus is not in position as a aprophet to dictate what God His Lord will do! He is only told what he needed to know and to affirm his prophetic office and the prediction that there is someone to come after him, is not to say that the person will be sent because Jesus wanted him to be sent! God Alone determines that!

Muhammad is from Allah and the uran cnfirms it by all the unique elements it contains, and no other Book of religion has them! While your Bible dances between somebody sees God and no one sees Him, Muhammad stands on no one has and God is completely different from what the heart can conjur up! While you are fighting each other as to if God is human, or whatever, Muhammad stands on the Sueriority of The Creator, not Jesus, not Melchezdekeh, etc not Angel,. etc.

14:26: "will remind you everything I (Jesus) have said to you"Muhammad did exactly this, and there is no room for confusion, while you fight yourselves between, he is God, while other ays he is God and His own son, while others say he is only prophet! Three distinct positions in the same group; you people must love three; three gods, three wise men, three positions, etc! Woooh! Wow.

16:8: "he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin, "Is this not exactly what Muhammad did, as he separated all evils away from all goods and protocol of worshipping One True God? Is Jesus God or Human Messenger? Lol!

16:14: "He will bring glory to me (Jesus), " How did the Spirit accomplish this, and I will like to see the chapters and verses, while Surah Imran, Isra, Mariam, etc including Ambiyya confirm the Muhammad restoration of the honorable position of Jesus, and not the lies that you Christian people haul against him, while the Jews strip him of every and all!

Finally, Jesus said that the parakletos is a spirit: spirit like prophet otherwise how do you test the spirit to either be a true spirit or a false spirit, except that it is either a false prophet or true prophet by his prophetic qualities? The Christians bury themselves with their own Bible, all the time, considering that God is not the Author of confusion, Paul and the gang are!

14:17: "the Spirit of Truth" [b]The prophet of truth is more like it, since you and I know that there is no way to test a spirit! Lol, I wish this guy knows that he just killed the day of pentecosts' spirit as comforter gimmick? Now how do you test that spirit of the day of pentecosts, except that he met all the prescribed functions that Jesus told his desciples; you will hear him speak, what he hears he will repeat of his own volition, he will say it 100% without hiding anything, while nothing he said will be of his own desire, then glorifying as in defense of the truth of Jesus, and by extension his mother, and teaching you new things as to all the things I did not teach you, and reminding you of what I teached, and he will abide with you for ever in Purity!?

Now how did the spirit, if not a human prophet did any of these? Muhammad did all of them because he was a prophet, a human being like Jesus and others before them, and abides by the believers for ever in the Quran and authentic ahadith, visiting his grave to physically see when he is located, and continue to talk in real terms about him, following his actions, which are completely relevant!? Now deny any of these, while the Quran is with us, where is the remnant of what the unseen and unheard taught anyone?[/b]

14:26: "the Counsellor (parakletos), the Holy Spirit" It would have been better if you wrote it in Syriac a semitic language which is what Jesus spoke instead of the greek gimmick you Christians are fond of when you are intending to lie. Its very unbecoming of you people!


@Nezan (m): « #23 on: Yesterday at 11:39:43 AM »

Muslims are very desparate when faced with the truth.
Mohammed plagiarised the Bible and twisted parts of it, then turn around to say the Bible is corrupt, but never provided the original.
He claimed to believe in Jesus but denied his works, that is why a muslim will lie to you that he believe in Jesus.

What funny characters

Which of the authentic work of Jesus Muhammad deniy? Is it the fact that he spoke as a child to announce his prophetic office so that what came next, the defense of his mother from open accusation of adultery the only reason they did not stone her is denied or is it the Bible that denies this obvious fact? How can anyone logically explain how Mary escaped the Mosaic law on adultery, especially when hier son said"Dont think I came to abrogate/abolish the Laws and prophets, except that I come to fulfill even the least of it, including the "jot"?"

The Musis dont have to show you any original, it is you who must bring out an original which is not corrupt! The muslims by Allah to His Messenger (AS) says your Bible is corrupt and you have many versions, so show us a single original and we will take anything different from this a s corrupt, considering the context and time of writing the Catholic version must be more original, less corrupt than what the Protestants can ever produce! And when a person says something is corrupt, it simply means not 100% pure anymore! Is that not funny that you continue to misunderstand this simple fact?

« #25 on: Yesterday at 11:45:02 AM »
Jesus is the way . . . no man cometh to the Father except through Him!, save your pity for yourself.

If the world had ended with Jesus, maybe his generation saying this could have made sense. Alhamdulillah, the world did not end, and Muhammad (AS) was raised up by Allah for mankind, not for arabs, alone, as Jesus and the children of Israel were raised for the Children of Israel's nations!

Nezan do you know the first prophet for the children of Israel, since already know who the last of themis? Your statement about could easily be appropriately said by the people in the boat of Noah, and they would have been more correct than your Jesus is the only way situation, considering that the Jews who holds the key to your salvation refused to accept him, and yet they do not forfeit the holdership of that key! How important is Jsus then to africans, if the Jews refused to accept him and their Paradise is not dented yet, according to the Christians saying" salvation is of the Jews?"

« #27 on: Yesterday at 12:39:04 PM »
oya we are waiting!

Am sureif hyou have been told its mo money, fewer friends you would have abandoned the certain to be beached or drowned Christian ship that its destination is heaven where hell i the room that it will rest in! No one needs to open anymore threads to satisfy your insatiable apetite for lies! You wanna remain opposition to God, continue and see where it leads you, you human god worshipper!

@Noetic15: « #397 on: Yesterday at 08:14:56 PM »

compare urself to Jesus and make urself happy all the same u are olabs. . .happy?

You are the one who is ding that. Afterall, you compare him to God Almighty the Creator.

shame on u. . . , . u still did not condemn what that girl did.

Shame of you, Ipata boy. You are almost behaving like omo garage. I think UK is bad for you. Most of you over there become hardened herated people. When you call a woman a girl, then you need to be called a boy!


@GODSON2009 (m): « #398 on: Yesterday at 09:01:49 PM »

i beg to differ sire,if mohammad was trying to wean the people,then he wouldnt make comments that would reflect negatively on his person,for instance he tells believers to tolerate other religions,especially the people of the book,later he tells the same believers to kill the same people of the book,first what is the logic in that?secondly how is that helping the believers in the long run,especially now that he is no longer around?
i know what i am saying,and he definitely killed the person that threw intestines on his back while praying, the long and short is that he contradicted himself finish!
besides that,i have shown you others that he killed,the jewish poet,just for satirizing him in poems,paid for him to be assasinated
also the young singer,

How does the flippancy of the Bible a good measure of the veracity of say Jesus who says he is a servant and God is not he and then he turns around and said he and God are One, when it is clear he was a human and God is not? How does this double talk is helping the christians now, a group that now calls him God, instead of what he is? Just like Jesus killed a tree and also ordered the purchases of swords, can we say he was a peaceful man, based addtionally on his announcement that he comes with war and not peace? I also have shown you that Jesus never truly forgave anyone, the thief on the cross was a proof! Goodson, my situation is truth, while your is false.

If you will, lets wager right now and I will show you all ahadith about Muhammads simplicity and not killing the person who threw the intestine in Makka at the Kaaba, for sure no disbeliever died in the hands of the Muslim, in allte 13 years of makka. So you must have been lying!

first of all,responding to your challenge,the satanic verses,and the quranic verses about millitant jihad has answered this particular question.
secondly,have you noticed that this is the third time already that you are going on about

If I did it just one time, it is one time too much a response to your false accusation. I have done an overkill 3 times, and yet you still could not present a good enough proof. Infact there is no proof, and this is the reason you see me responding with you, in a hot enough temperament. For example, no Muslim says that Muhammad (AS) did not marry the young woman Aisha, but the differences among us is the age. While I favor a more matured woman, well suited for marriage because of many reasons, some are as follows;

The best example to give us the Quranic guideline for marriage was Muhammad and there is no Quranic verse making an exception in the case of Aisha, so one expect her marriage to follow the said guideline, especially when she says Muhammad was the Quran walking. Secondly, when was Aisha born relative to her father's becoming a Muslim, in the first year of revelation, and the fact of the matter is that she was bethroned to a man whose family cancelled the marriage because Abu Bakr, and by extension, Aisha became Muslim, the disbeliever family cancelled the potential marriage.

Now then, how old was she when she was bethroned by this family and how long was it before it was cancelled and how long was it before Muhammad entered the picture? Please remember that she was also growing not remaining stagnant through this period! And the ineresting thing is that a potential wife must participate in her marriage contract, hence we will not expect less for Aisha. Muhammad (AS) said that a woman when she cries because of marital proposal, they taste of the tears, if it is sweet, is because she agrrees and accepts the proposal, even though she may not say a word. The face will tell the story of her heart.

If she disagrees and rejects the proposal, the tears will be unpalatable. There is no indication that Aisha refused or reject this proposal, since we ssaw that she had beeen bethroned earlier, can we then say that she was underage and unoffisticated to be married like the claims of people like you?

nezan does not read anything longer than a few lne. if he does, he would have found out that it was not a cut and paste. he thinks he is addressing a christian!

To all, it is not enough to label an entity a label you desire, except there is a 100% proof, without a single proof to the contrary.

Eloi, is a god to the Atheist, but a True God to believers in existence of true God, because all of these known as creation does not just happen to be accidental, because it is too complex and very orderly. Even the idolaters know that there is a true God, except that they have a god, which they created, seen and felt, heard in most cases (can eat, etc), and not all of them are carvings, acting as mediator to those who believe in it.

However the True God is not created, rather He is the Creator, completely different and separate from the creations nothing is onto like Him. But Jesus has a beginning as far as being the "word", came to existence at best when the True God spoke, or at the absolute truth, when his mother was given the news of his impending birth. This makes him a creation.

But the True God does have succession of Messengers and prophets to mankind, mainly localized, regionalised, or national or tribal in all cases, except the last one: The Christians argue that Jesus was it, with post crucifixion argument, completely against the pre crucifixion many statement from Jesus making his ministry a tribal one exclusively for the Children of israel, while the emphasise was laid on "the lost" group among them.


The true God has Moses and many other prophets, Noah among them. Now who were the messengers and Prophets of God/god Jesus, for he should not be his own Messenger or prophet, because that will take him down to the same position that Buddha, making his own personal argument face to face at best, or some people just made him god, because of his message, without him saying so! I see the same process for the Christians, so I want them to extricate themselves in this case.


We see that the true God can not be seen by anyone, except such a person dies off, at least the physical death and i dare add the spiritual death to it, so that their place for the sight is Hell fire! But Jesus was seen, with naked eyes, for over 30 years, as a helpless child all he way through his messengership, and according to the accounts, even until he was lifted up.

Finally, the True God is always Ever Living, while Jesus was killed by the Jews the same people who killed his cousin by beheading the most gentle among the prophets of the Children of Israel, and no one complained about him, except the woman who had him beheaded for a simple "dance", while Jesus was hung, instead.


With all of these coupled with the fact that Jesus completely fit man and mankind in every respect, please who was the messenger of God like Moses for Jesus, and who was the son of God if God has one (I know that He does not have any, but just trying to awake the sleepy minds of the disbelievers), like Jesus for the God Jesus?


Remember that the prophet/messenger Moses was not the same for son Jesus to The Christian God, so the two situation must be different for God Jesus?

« #386 on: Today at 12:52:43 PM »

but when the "woman" chooses at her discretion to repeatedly ban a person based on religious differences incessantly. . . . .does she not worth to be called to order? does it not take two to tangle?. . . . .was she randomly called a pig?. . . .what was the remote reason for her being a pig? does she not act like a pig?

u ignorantly made ridiculous and childish comments on that thread, which was unfortunate. considering that u always insist on respect accorded to africans of every thread. . .is it out of place to insist that u also respect urself?

a pig by wall street saying is a greedy thing. it is neither a bull nor a bear, somebody is winning, but not in the case of a pig, wanting everything for itself and will lose at the end.

she does not eat pig, you relish in its meat, calling it the other "white meat!" My elders I do not disrespect them. and thats the truth!

do you nezan ever seen the uncorrupted Bible? go to the public library or some bible selling store in Abuja and collect many different types of bible. Close your eyes and pick a bible, that bible call it uncorrupt, then the others corrupt. No? Hopefully you are a protestants and it will be a misfortune if you happen to pick Catholic or Mormon's! No?

I have news for you, man; no uncorrupt Bible, and should know it. Osis knows it and she knows she is in the wrong column!

why are u so concerned? olabs is a good name for u

you hear this omo tio ngboron yi? the abeti aja boy insist on calling me Olabs, in the same lying way he call Jesus God!

Alhamdulillah in my case I can live with it, after I protest to him against it! Lol. Call me whatever, I already know who I am.

Its Jesus of the Bible I see clearly that you are off the mark, 100%. As we called others in our families some names of endearment, I will take Olabs like that from you, since you are obviously a stubborn man.

I cant help it at reading in ARABIC, this part of Surah Furqan but to point the attentions of believers (muslims) and non-believers (the others), to it, to ponder at the instructions to Muhammad (AS, the same given to all prophets (AS), bearers of glad tidings to believers who follow them in obedience to their Lord, and warners to disbelievers in their time of prophetic office!

Moses, warner to Pharaoh and his courtiers and egyptians, but bearer of glad tidings to the Children of Israel, the believers at that time, until Jesus came with prophetic mandate!

Muhammad, warner to pagans and people of the books, but bearer of gla tidings to the Muslims from his time to the last generation of man on earth.

Jesus, warner to the deviants away from the Moses laid out path among the children of Israel, but bearer of glad tidings to those who among them who returned away from the deviations to the path of Moses, being the same that Jesus was on.

If any disagrees, then what was the reason that Jesus was send? And, if he is not a prophet, a messenger to his people, and you take him as your God, who is acting as his "Moses" as warning those who refused to worship him, and bearer of glad tidings to the believers of his godship? Afterall, we know that he said on the cross crying out My Illah/Eloi, my Illah/Eloi, forsaken me, says something that he has a consistent Ever Living God.

What are all these that Jesus said and did indicated about Jesus vis a vis other known prophets, above, ay Moses, relative to God? And who is either Moses of Jesus or Jesus of Jesus, if he is not a servant of God, but God himself? We see that during Moses prophetic responsibility, he was alway a prophet and not a prophet and son, so the Jesus for god Jesus can not be his Moses for God, they must be two different entities!



25:56 : And We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW ) only as a bearer of glad tidings and a warner.


25:57 : Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this (that which I have brought from my Lord and its preaching, etc.), save that whosoever wills, may take a Path to his Lord.


25:58 : And put your trust (O Muhammad SAW) in the Ever Living One Who dies not, and glorify His Praises, and Sufficient is He as the All-Knower of the sins of His slaves;


25:59 : Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six Days. Then He Istawa (rose over) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). The Most Beneficent (Allah)! Ask Him (O Prophet Muhammad SAW), (concerning His Qualities, His rising over His Throne, His creations, etc.), as He is Al-Khabir (The All-Knower of everything i.e. Allah).


25:60 : And when it is said to them: "Prostrate to the Most Beneficent (Allah)! They say: "And what is the Most Beneficent? Shall we fall down in prostration to that which you (O Muhammad SAW) command us?" And it increases in them only aversion.


25:61 : Blessed be He Who has placed in the heaven big stars, and has placed therein a great lamp (sun), and a moon giving light.


25:62 : And He it is Who has put the night and the day in succession, for such who desires to remember or desires to show his gratitude.


25:63 : And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allah) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness.


25:64 : And those who spend the night before their Lord, prostrate and standing.


25:65 : And those who say: "Our Lord! Avert from us the torment of Hell. Verily! Its torment is ever an inseparable, permanent punishment."


25:66 : Evil indeed it (Hell) is as an abode and as a place to dwell.


25:67 : And those, who, when they spend, are neither extravagant nor niggardly, but hold a medium (way) between those (extremes).


25:68 : And those who invoke not any other ilah (god) along with Allah, nor kill such life as Allah has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment.


25:69 : The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace;


25:70 : Except those who repent and believe (in Islamic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds, for those, Allah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

@Godson2009: I will wait for your proof that the Prophet (AS) raisded Yemeni Caravan, be it in makka or madina! I just want to know that they were aised as innocent people

And stop calling me Olas! There is no "S" in my name, and i dont know you enough to assume that we are friends and therefore you establishe a Nickname for me.

@Muhsin: JazakAlahu Khair.

@Godson2009:

have you even been reading my replies to you at all?because there is no indication of such in your replies, [b]you said it was not yemeni traders going to mecca,and i stood by my comments even expanciating on the circumstances surrounding it,and then going into the battle of badr just so that you understand i know the difference,[/b]so what are you on about??

So I now call you out to bring evidence, whether in the Makka period or Madina period. I want you to tell us with proofs about the Yemini situation before Badr or after Badr! Dont forget that we in Islam have our Books in the reaches of anyone and eeryone!