₦airaland Forum

You have to them. This is the purpose my dialogue wth you. You cant be lazy on me, man. You got to read them, you are grown man and your life depends on it.

From the group of surahs called Haa Miim, starting from 40, Surah Gafir am always at awe when I read them. I encourage those want to know the abundance of Forgiveness in Islam use tafsir to read them. Chapter 42 is known as As Shura (Mutual Consultations/discussions) and from it, we see
what are said about man making laws and legislation for mankind, and of course ignoring guidans is Disbelief; (Reason Jews and another reason Christians are disbelievers), forgiveness, and the rseponse to those who said Muhammad (AS) forged the Quran;

Making Legislation for the Creatures is Shirk Allah says:

The Terror of the Idolators in the Place of Gathering

Good News of the Blessings of Paradise for the People of Faith

The Accusation that the Prophet fabricated the Qur'an -- and the Response to that

Allah accepts Repentance and responds to Supplications

Surah Qasas (Story) Chapter 28, tells us and in a place defines those who are "believers" among early nations; the people of the Books, and I hilight what is meant by it. You can never be a believer until you abandone Taugut (disbelief) and embrace Islam.

The Believers among the People of the Book


Allah tells us that the pious scholars among the People of the Book believe in the Qur'an, as He says:


[الَّذِينَ آتَيْنَـهُمُ الْكِتَـبَ يَتْلُونَهُ حَقَّ تِلاَوَتِهِ أُوْلَـئِكَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ]


(Those to whom We gave the Book recite it as it should be recited, they are the ones who believe therein) (2:121).


[وَإِنَّ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَـبِ لَمَن يُؤْمِنُ بِاللَّهِ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِمْ خَـشِعِينَ للَّهِ]


(And there are, certainly, among the People of the Scripture, those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah) (3:199).


[قُلْ ءَامِنُواْ بِهِ أَوْ لاَ تُؤْمِنُواْ إِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْعِلْمَ مِن قَبْلِهِ إِذَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ يَخِرُّونَ لِلاٌّذْقَانِ سُجَّدًا - وَيَقُولُونَ سُبْحَانَ رَبِّنَآ إِن كَانَ وَعْدُ رَبِّنَا لَمَفْعُولاً ]


(Verily, those who were given knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration. And they say: "Glory be to our Lord! Truly, the promise of our Lord must be fulfilled.'') (17:107-108)


[وَلَتَجِدَنَّ أَقْرَبَهُمْ مَّوَدَّةً لِّلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّا نَصَارَى]


]b](And you will find the nearest in love to the believers those who say: "We are Christians. '') until:


[فَاكْتُبْنَا مَعَ الشَّـهِدِينَ]


(so write us down among the witnesses) (5:82-83). Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "This was revealed concerning seventy priests who were sent by An-Najashi (ruler of Ethiopia). When they came to the Prophet , he recited to them:


[يس - وَالْقُرْءَانِ الْحَكِيمِ ]


(Ya Sin. By the Qur'an, full of wisdom.) (36:1-2) until he completed the Surah. They began to weep, and they embraced Islam. These other Ayat were revealed concerning them:


[الَّذِينَ ءَاتَيْنَـهُمُ الْكِتَـبَ مِن قَبْلِهِ هُم بِهِ يُؤْمِنُونَ - وَإِذَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ قَالُواْ ءَامَنَّا بِهِ إِنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّنَآ إنَّا كُنَّا مِن قَبْلِهِ مُسْلِمِينَ ]


(Those to whom We gave the Scripture before it, they believe in it. And when it is recited to them, they say: "We believe in it. Verily, it is the truth from our Lord. Indeed even before it we have been from Muslims.'') meaning, `even before the Qur'an came we were Muslims, i.e., we believed in One God and were sincerely responding to Allah's commands.'


[أُوْلَـئِكَ يُؤْتُونَ أَجْرَهُم مَّرَّتَيْنِ بِمَا صَبَرُواْ]


(These will be given their reward twice over,[/b] because they are patient,) means, those who have this characteristic -- that they believed in the first Book and then in the second. Allah says:


[بِمَا صَبَرُواْ]


(because they are patient,) meaning, in their adherence to the truth, for taking such thing upon oneself is not easy for people. It was reported in the Sahih from the Hadith of `Amir Ash-Sha`bi from Abu Burdah that Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari, may Allah be pleased with him, said that the Messenger of Allah said:


«ثَلَاثَةٌ يُؤْتَوْنَ أَجْرَهُمْ مَرَّتَيْنِ: رَجُلٌ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ آمَنَ بِنَبِيِّهِ ثُمَّ آمَنَ بِي، وَعَبْدٌ مَمْلُوكٌ أَدَّى حَقَّ اللهِ وَحَقَّ مَوَالِيهِ،وَرَجُلٌ كَانَتْ لَهُ أَمَةٌ، فَأَدَّبَهَا فَأَحْسَنَ تَأْدِيبَهَا، ثُمَّ أَعْتَقَهَا فَتَزَوَّجَهَا»


(There are three who will be given their reward twice: a man among the People of the Book who believed in his Prophet then believed in me; a slave who fulfills his duty towards Allah and towards his master; and a man who has a slave woman and educates her and teaches her good manners, then he frees her and marries her.) Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Umamah said: "On the day of the Conquest [of Makkah] I was walking alongside the Messenger of Allah as he was riding, and he said some very beautiful words, including the following:


«مَنْ أَسْلَمَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابَيْنِ فَلَهُ أَجْرُهُ مَرَّتَيْنِ وَلَهُ مَا لَنَا وَعَلَيْهِ مَا عَلَيْنَا وَمَنْ أَسْلَمَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ فَلَهُ أَجْرُهُ وَلَهُ مَا لَنَا وَعَلَيْهِ مَا عَلَيْنَا»


(Whoever among the people of the two Books becomes Muslim, he will have his reward twice, and he has the same rights and duties as we do. Whoever among the idolators becomes Muslim will have one reward, and he has the same rights and duties as we do.)'' Allah's saying:


[وَيَدْرَءُونَ بِالْحَسَنَةِ السَّيِّئَةَ]


(and repel evil with good,) means, they do not respond to evil in kind, rather they forgive and overlook.


[وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَـهُمْ يُنفِقُونَ]


(and spend out of what We have provided for them.) meaning, `from the lawful provision that We have given them, they spend on their families and relatives as they are required to do, and they pay Zakah and give voluntary charity.'


[وَإِذَا سَمِعُواْ اللَّغْوَ أَعْرَضُواْ عَنْهُ]


(And when they hear evil vain talk, they withdraw from it) meaning, they do not mix with the people who indulge in such talk, rather they do as Allah says:


[وَإِذَا مَرُّواْ بِاللَّغْوِ مَرُّواْ كِراماً]


(and if they pass by some evil vain talk, they pass by it with dignity) (25:72).


[وَقَالُواْ لَنَآ أَعْمَـلُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَـلُكُمْ سَلَـمٌ عَلَيْكُمْ لاَ نَبْتَغِى الْجَـهِلِينَ]


(and they say: "To us our deeds, and to you your deeds. Peace be to you. We seek not (the way of) the ignorant.'') means, if some foolish person speaks to them in a foolish manner and says something to which it does not befit them to respond, they turn away from him and do not respond in kind with ugly speech. They never say anything but good words. Allah says of them that they say:


[لَنَآ أَعْمَـلُنَا وَلَكُمْ أَعْمَـلُكُمْ سَلَـمٌ عَلَيْكُمْ لاَ نَبْتَغِى الْجَـهِلِينَ]


(To us our deeds, and to you your deeds. Peace be to you. We seek not (the way of) the ignorant.) meaning, `we do not seek the way of the ignorant and we do not like it.'


[إِنَّكَ لاَ تَهْدِى مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَـكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِى مَن يَشَآءُ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ - وَقَالُواْ إِن نَّتَّبِعِ الْهُدَى مَعَكَ نُتَخَطَّفْ مِنْ أَرْضِنَآ أَوَلَمْ نُمَكِّن لَّهُمْ حَرَماً ءَامِناً يُجْبَى إِلَيْهِ ثَمَرَاتُ كُلِّ شَىْءٍ رِّزْقاً مِّن لَّدُنَّا وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ ]


(56. Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided.) (57. And they say: "If we follow the guidance with you, we would be snatched away from our land.'' Have We not established for them a secure sanctuary, to which are brought fruits of all kinds, a provision from Ourselves, but most of them know not.)

In every way Islam is unique, different from any of the religions or ways of the old, the nations that passed before Muhammad's (AS).

@Noetic: Look at the partial list and part of their messages and or prophetic duties of "Allah's Messengers and or Prophets (AS)" since you asked.
You find this in Surah Araf (The Height; Chapter 7), and start from verse #59. You need good spiritual education my man: (The parable of the guidance and knowledge with which Allah has sent me is that of an abundant rain falling on a land, some of which was fertile soil that absorbed rain water and brought forth vegetation and grass in abundance. And another portion of it was hard and held the rain water; and Allah benefited the people with it, they utilized it for drinking, making their animals drink from it, and for irrigation of the land for cultivation. And a portion of it was barren which could neither hold the water nor bring forth vegetation. The first is the example of the person who comprehends Allah's religion and gets benefit which Allah sent me with, by learnign and teaching others. The last example is that of a person who does not care for it and does not accept the guidance Allah sent me with.)


(59. Indeed, We sent Nuh to his people and he said: "O my people! Worship Allah! You have no other god but Him. Certainly, I fear for you the torment of a Great Day!'') (60. The leaders of his people said: "Verily, we see you in plain error.'') (61. [Nuh] said: "O my people! There is no error in me, but I am a Messenger from the Lord of all that exists!) (62. I convey unto you the Messages of my Lord and give sincere advice to you. And I know from Allah what you know not.'')



The Story of Nuh and His People


The Story of Nuh and His People


After Allah mentioned the story of Adam in the beginning of this Surah, He started mentioning the stories of the Prophets, the first then the latter of them. Allah mentioned the story of Nuh, because he was the first Messenger Allah sent to the people of the earth after Adam. His name was Nuh bin Lamak bin Matushalakh bin Khanukh. And Khanukh was, as they claim, the Prophet Idris. And Idris was the first person to write letters using pen, and he was the son of Barad bin Mahlil, bin Qanin bin Yanish bin Shith bin Adam, upon them all be peace. This lineage is mentioned by Muhammad bin Ishaq and other Imams who document lineage. `Abdullah bin `Abbas and several other scholars of Tafsir said that the first idol worship began when some righteous people died and their people built places of worship over their graves. They made images of them so that they could remember their righteousness and devotion, and thus, imitate them. When time passed, they made statues of them and later on worshipped these idols, naming them after the righteous people: Wadd, Suwa`, Yaghuth, Ya`uq and Nasr. After this practice became popular, Allah sent Nuh as a Messenger, all thanks are due to Him. Nuh commanded his people to worship Allah alone without partners, saying,


[يَـقَوْمِ اعْبُدُواْ اللَّهَ مَا لَكُم مِّنْ إِلَـهٍ غَيْرُهُ إِنِّى أَخَافُ عَلَيْكُمْ عَذَابَ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ]


("O my people! Worship Allah! You have no other god but Him. Certainly, I fear for you the torment of a Great Day!'') the torment of the Day of Resurrection, if you meet Allah while associating others with Him.


[قَالَ الْمَلأ مِن قَوْمِهِ]


(The leaders of his people said) meaning, the general public, chiefs, commanders and great ones of his people said,


[إِنَّا لَنَرَاكَ فِي ضَلَـلٍ مُّبِينٍ]


("Verily, we see you in plain error'') because of your calling us to abandon the worship of these idols that we found our forefathers worshipping. This, indeed, is the attitude of evil people, for they consider the righteous people to be following misguidance. Allah said in other Ayat,


[وَإِذَا رَأَوْهُمْ قَالُواْ إِنَّ هَـؤُلاَءِ لَضَآلُّونَ ]


(And when they saw them, they said: "Verily, these have indeed gone astray!'') [83:32] and,


[وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ لِلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لَوْ كَانَ خَيْراً مَّا سَبَقُونَآ إِلَيْهِ وَإِذْ لَمْ يَهْتَدُواْ بِهِ فَسَيَقُولُونَ هَـذَآ إِفْكٌ قَدِيمٌ ]


(And those who disbelieve say of those who believe: "Had it been a good thing, they (the weak and poor) would not have preceded us thereto!'' And when they have not let themselves be guided by it (this Qur'an), they say: "This is an ancient lie!'') [46:11] There are several other Ayat on this subject.


[قَالَ يَـقَوْمِ لَيْسَ بِى ضَلَـلَةٌ وَلَكِنِّي رَسُولٌ مِّن رَّبِّ الْعَـلَمِينَ ]


([Nuh] said: "O my people! There is no error in me, but I am a Messenger from the Lord of all that exists!'') meaning, there is nothing wrong with me, but I am a Messenger from the Lord of all that exists, Lord and King of all things,


[أُبَلِّغُكُمْ رِسَـلـتِ رَبِّى وَأَنصَحُ لَكُمْ وَأَعْلَمُ مِنَ اللَّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ ]


("I convey unto you the Messages of my Lord and give sincere advice to you. And I know from Allah what you know not.'') This is the attribute of a Messenger, that he conveys using plain, yet eloquent words, offers sincere advice and is knowledgeable about Allah; indeed, no other people can compete with the Prophets in this regard. In his Sahih, Muslim recorded that the Messenger of Allah said to his Companions on the Day of `Arafah, when their gathering was as large as it ever was,


«أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّكُمْ مَسْؤُولُونَ عَنِّي فَمَا أَنْتُمْ قَائِلُونَ؟»


(O people! You will be asked about me, so what will you say) They said, "We testify that you have conveyed and delivered (the Message) and offered sincere advice.'' So he kept raising his finger to the sky and lowering it towards them, saying,


«اللَّهُمَّ اشْهَدْ اللَّهُمَّ اشْهَد»


(O Allah! Bear witness, O Allah! Bear witness.)


[أَوَ عَجِبْتُمْ أَن جَآءَكُمْ ذِكْرٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ عَلَى رَجُلٍ مِّنْكُمْ لِيُنذِرَكُمْ وَلِتَتَّقُواْ وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ - فَكَذَّبُوهُ فَأَنجَيْنَـهُ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ فِي الْفُلْكِ وَأَغْرَقْنَا الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُواْ بِـَايَـتِنَآ إِنَّهُمْ كَانُواْ قَوْماً عَمِينَ ]


(63. "Do you wonder that there has come to you a Reminder from your Lord through a man from among you, that he may warn you, so that you may fear Allah and that you may receive (His) mercy'') (64. But they belied him, so We saved him and those along with him in the Fulk, and We drowned those who belied Our Ayat. They were indeed a blind people.) Allah said that Nuh proclaimed to his people,


[أَوَ عَجِبْتُمْ]


("Do you wonder, ''), do not wonder because of this. Surely, it is not strange that Allah sends down revelation to a man among you as mercy, kindness and compassion for you, so that he warns you that you may avoid Allah's torment by associating none with Him,


[وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ]


("and that you may receive (His) mercy.'') Allah said,


[فَكَذَّبُوهُ]


(But they belied him) but they insisted on rejecting and opposing him, and only a few of them believed in him, as Allah stated in another Ayah. Allah said next,


[فَأَنجَيْنَـهُ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ فِي الْفُلْكِ]


(So We saved him and those along with him in the Fulk) the ark,


[وَأَغْرَقْنَا الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُواْ بِـَايَـتِنَآ]


(And We drowned those who belied Our Ayat. ) Allah said in another Ayah,


[مِّمَّا خَطِيئَـتِهِمْ أُغْرِقُواْ فَأُدْخِلُواْ نَاراً فَلَمْ يَجِدُواْ لَهُمْ مِّن دُونِ اللَّهِ أَنصَاراً ]


(Because of their sins they were drowned, then they were admitted into the Fire. And they found none to help them instead of Allah.) [71:25] Allah said,


[إِنَّهُمْ كَانُواْ قَوْماً عَمِينَ]


(They were indeed a blind people.) meaning, blind from the Truth, unable to recognize it or find their way to it. Here, Allah said that He has taken revenge from His enemies and saved His Messenger and those who believed in him, while destroying their disbelieving enemies. Allah said in a another Ayah,


[إِنَّا لَنَنصُرُ رُسُلَنَا]


(Verily, We will indeed make victorious Our Messengers) [40:51]. This is Allah's Sunnah (way) with His servants, in this life and the Hereafter, that the good end, victory and triumph is for those who fear Him. For example, Allah destroyed the people of Nuh, and saved Nuh and his believing followers. Ibn Wahb said that he was told that Ibn `Abbas said that eighty men were saved with Nuh in the ship, one of them was Jurhum, who spoke Arabic. Ibn Abi Hatim collected this statement, which was also narrated with a continuous chain of narration from Ibn `Abbas.


[وَإِلَى عَادٍ أَخَاهُمْ هُودًا قَالَ يَاقَوْمِ اعْبُدُواْ اللَّهَ مَا لَكُمْ مِّنْ إِلَـهٍ غَيْرُهُ أَفَلاَ تَتَّقُونَ - قَالَ الْمَلأُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِن قَوْمِهِ إِنَّا لَنَرَاكَ فِي سَفَاهَةٍ وِإِنَّا لَنَظُنُّكَ مِنَ الْكَـذِبِينَ - قَالَ يَـقَوْمِ لَيْسَ بِى سَفَاهَةٌ وَلَكِنِّى رَسُولٌ مِّن رَّبِّ الْعَـلَمِينَ - أُبَلِّغُكُمْ رِسَـلـتِ رَبِّى وَأَنَاْ لَكُمْ نَاصِحٌ أَمِينٌ - أَوَ عَجِبْتُمْ أَن جَآءَكُمْ ذِكْرٌ مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ عَلَى رَجُلٍ مِّنكُمْ لِيُنذِرَكُمْ وَاذكُرُواْ إِذْ جَعَلَكُمْ خُلَفَآءَ مِن بَعْدِ قَوْمِ نُوحٍ وَزَادَكُمْ فِى الْخَلْقِ بَسْطَةً فَاذْكُرُواْ ءَالآءَ اللَّهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ ]


(65. And to `Ad (the people, We sent) their brother Hud. He said: "O my people! Worship Allah! You have no other god but Him. Will you then not have Taqwa'') (66. The leaders of those who disbelieved among his people said: "Verily, we see you in foolishness, and verily, we think you are one of the liars.'') (67. (Hud) said: "O my people! There is no foolishness in me, but (I am) a Messenger from the Lord of all that exists!) (68. "I convey unto you the Messages of my Lord, and I am a trustworthy adviser (or well-wisher) for you.) (69. "Do you wonder that there has come to you a Reminder (and an advice) from your Lord through a man from among you to warn you And remember that He made you successors (generations after generations) after the people of Nuh and increased you amply in stature. So remember the graces (bestowed upon you) from Allah so that you may be successful.'')




The Story of Hud, Peace be upon Him, and the Lineage of the People of `Ad

The Land of `Ad

Debate between Hud and his People

Allah mentions the rebellion, defiance and stubbornness of Hud's people, and their opposition to him, peace be upon him,

The End of `Ad

Story of the Emissary of `Ad

Thamud: Their Land and Their Lineage

The Story of Prophet Salih and Thamud

Thamud asked that a Camel appear from a Stone, and it did

Thamud kills the She-Camel

The Wicked Ones Plot to Kill Prophet Salih, But the Torment descended on Them

The Story of Prophet Lut, upon Him be Peace, and His People

Allah says, We saved Lut and his family, for only his household believed in him.

Story of Shu`ayb, upon him be Peace, and the Land of Madyan

Prophet Shu`ayb forbade his people from setting up blockades on the roads, saying,

Allah describes the way the disbelievers answered His Prophet Shu`ayb and those who believed in him, by threatening them with expulsion from their village, or with forceful reversion to the disbeliever's religion.

Afflictions that struck Earlier Nations

Blessings come with Faith, while Kufr brings Torment

Ibn `Abbas commented on Allah's statement,

Story of Prophet Musa, upon him be Peace, and Fir`awn

Fir`awn's People say that Musa is a Magician!

The Magicians convene and change Their Ropes into Snakes before Musa

Musa defeats the Magicians, Who believe in Him

Fir`awn threatens the Magicians after They believed in Musa and Their Response to Him

Fir`awn vows to kill the Children of Israel, Who complain to Musa; Allah promises Them Victory

Fir`awn and His People suffer Years of Drought

Allah punishes the People of Fir`awn because of Their Rebellion

The People of Fir`awn drown in the Sea; the Children of Israel inherit the Holy Land

The Children of Israel safely cross the Sea, but still held on to the Idea of Idol Worshipping

Reminding the Children of Israel of Allah's Blessings for Them

Musa fasts and worships Allah for Forty Days

Musa asks to see Allah

Allah chooses Musa and gives Him the Tablets

Arrogant People will be deprived of Allah's Ayat

Story of worshipping the Calf

Musa picked up the Tablets when His Anger subsided

Seventy Men from the Children of Israel go for the appointed Meeting Place that Allah designated, Allah later on destroys Them

Allah's Mercy is for Those Who have Taqwa and believe in Allah's Ayat and His Messenger

The Description of that Messenger

Muhammad's Message is Universal

Use Tafsir Ibn Kathir for good understaning. You can that of Ibn Abbass (RA).

and as for the thighing, even me who is not a special man, will not let anyone see my aura, and definitely is there a reason for me to expose myself in the public or a gathering of people, putting my wife on my thighs robbing my Instruments against her?

Muhammad (AS) was the bashful human being, and for you and others who lack honest to say that he exposed himself like that is the lowest of insincerity, next to disbelieving in One True God! You are guilty of both.

And until the formation of PLOand its affiliate, palestinian organizations constisting of practising and non practising muslims and christians, to struggle against the invader Zionists, the Jews have terrorized the whole of Palestine, and in King David's Hotel inIlya (Jerusalem) the killed English personnels and it ushered in the state of israel in just a few short months after it!

Now who is the father of the Terrorism? But the Christian PLO members are not terrorists, and sure, it has to be the muslism with so much Killing verses in their Quran and the Bible, Old and New Testaments contain none of it!

whats the meaning of the above.

The is nothing in the article that suggests
a. killing apostates
b. thighing and pedophilia
c. terrorism
d. killing f innocent and defenceless non-muslims
e. beheading and amputation of people as done in islam.

The article calls for a spiritual warfare. . . .  .prayer. ,  . . . .

You cant say spiritual warfare really after the master said; I want you count then with me;
1). As a young man "turn over the table of Jewish "banker", all them money changers with some venom saying you cant turn the house of my father to a trading place", even though they only on the plazza or amphitheater. I dont the bankers ever returned back to to do any business.

2). In the early hours of his ministry, he said "I do not come with peace, but with war, setting family members against one another."

3). Before his arrest, he instructed his disciples "Sell your meager belonging, the clothes, then by swords with the gains."

Now noetic, you may claim this is not violence, I understand, the very reason you turn the above verses which I played with you emotion as spiritual warfare, and how do you explain all the killings, the oppressions and the steallg, that happened to others and indeed less afluenced Cjhristians in the hands of Bigger brother christians of Europe and America all through the centuries? (Many crusades where they recruited them cHristians with the gimmick of slaes of indugence, hoew about them Spanish Inquistions, the conquistadrs, the two world wars, etc, and who will forget the colonialization of dark skin people, and the slavery) Just last month on or early this month on Long Island New Long State, a white Christian was trying to kill a muslim woman and her little child based on the simple fact she is Muslim! In today's America, if black people are not free in the hands of conservative Christians, what do you expect that the muslims are going through?

At least as a muslim, I can walk in to any musque, and if I am in the front, no king or presiden or prime minister can tell me to go to another line because he wants to be in the front row!not the malady prevalent in islam.

@Noetic: When I copied the piece that you now say that it comes from the Pages of the Bible, I saw tremedous violence in it. It was copied from a website, a thread that Olaadegbu started that I wanna respond to, while you guys and the whole Christianity say that your religion is a "turn the other cheek" I did not see that in that piece and all I had to do was just edit the Obvious Christian references so that if I attach it, in its violence to islam, you hatred of islam may make you fight hard to claim it.

You did in the same way a very wise man was saying to a shia; the shia was the sect that used to steal shoes in the time of the prophet, since the Shia says that its has been a set even during his prophetic lifetime. The shia could not contain himself for being accused of a group that used to steal, so he blotted out; "There was no shia sect at the time of the prophet, stop not telling the truth!" Everyone realised that he told the truth which the Imam was arguing that he should say all the while. You claimed violent verses all in NT, because its there, but if I have started out with just writing it and not attaching to Islam, you would not have accepted it as a violent piece, since you did not say there is no vioence in them!

You see why that hypocracy is what you guys are known for, claiming one thing but actually doing the opposite.

@Noetic: « #88 on: Yesterday at 09:52:09 PM »

Another shameless illiterate.

what does begot mean?

Tell us what begot means, and stop being so touchy about it.

Let me ask: do I begot you? If you say yes, then call yourself Noetic Olabowale, because today I begot you!

I wanna know how Papa in Nigeria will like to see my face, the man who is now claiming his son. Maybe you are an old man, get me a 15 year old girl or boy from the family to replace you, in the office of begot. Tell the parents of that child that you will me at the father who begot the child and see how much both parents will be ready to fight when I come to see my begot baby!

@Democrazy:

However, I just want you to know that Jesus is the only way by which we can be saved.Luke13:24, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

If we feeze the time to only Moses time, considering the population of the Children of Israel, to the much much larger population of Egyptians, the road taken by following Moses is very narrow and this is the reason that the Jews, as they are called refused to take anyone prophet after Torah, while the whole population of Egypt as seem by their doomed miltary took the wider seemingly better but a road leading to destruction, leading the way by the tyrannical King Fir'awn.

There's no other way.Jesus took our sin upon Himself (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Jesus did not say this, somebody else said it. It is a subjective statement of untruth, selfish desire of a person who does not want to be responsible for his own soul.

Jesus died in our place (Romans 5:, taking the punishment that we deserve.

Another of third party person statement like the above.

Three days later, Jesus rose from the dead, proving His victory over sin and death (Romans 6:4-5).

If Noetic wants to do a math problem and find a deficient calculation this is the one, since Jews start their semitic day like the arabs from sundown to dawn, please give me three days from Friday just before sundown to just after dawn of Sunday, if you will get three days of Jewish people from it, or calculate it by Romans' 24 hours, which will accrue to 72 hours. If you don't get either then your presentation is false, again.

Why did He do it? Jesus answered that question Himself: “Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends” (John 15:13). Jesus died so that we could live.

Why did he do it, you said? Then consider a better deal whre no one have to be hung by force and you get a reward on your own by obeying the one who sent the one you said died on the cross. The last verse of Surah Fijr was recited and Abu Bakr (RA) said to the prophet (AS) this is the most beautiful sayiing to a person. Muhammad (AS) said to him, bu bakr it will be said to you as you are entering Paradise! And Abu Bakr was jusr an ordinary man, already guaranteed Paradise while still on earth! All the Mujahid of Badr were guaranteed that in Quran. All Shuadah are guaranteed Paradise. You can die on you death bed as an old man a shahid.


And we do not have to be soaked with blood eaither like the Christians or have blood on our door post like the Jews. Islamic Mercy and Paradise is easy and anyone can get to it, wealthy and pauper, aike.

@Abuzola: And I love to see the Chapter and verse and ahadith of your PROOF. Do it because it will a matter of impacting knowledge on all of us.

Abuzola if a person wants to find Islam, I advise him to come to America from his so called "Muslim enviroment". And anyone wishes not to find misguidance, I will advise that he stays far away from America.

It is in America that I became a good muslim, InshaAllah a Mumin. I know many hausas, from nigeria and others, fulanis from others, etc and all african tribes, each of them became better Muslim almost Mumin in America. We in America do not practice Bidah and we do not have traditional Islam, our Islam is simply Quran and Sunnah and we are not shy to make Ahdan, or preach about the evils of America, and also wish her well, for before Taif became Madina, it was exactly like America. And Makka was worse than America until Fatih Makka.

Muslims in America have more sunnah per percentage than Muslims in Arabia Saudia. We wear full beard while most of the Royal family members wear only Goatie and unfortunately, the face of Islam in Nigeria; South and North, all the place is not something to be happy about. We do not perform Zina in America because we are watchdogs for one another, and we do not call ven the Kufar Ashewo, we dont drink alcohol and we try not to go into Riba.

Insult America if you will, but America has been good for me and my Islam. If I were in Nigeria, I would be dumb as a dumbell, and thinking that I am practicing Islam, yet am either a Tarikha or something. My Tarikha is not Tijani or Ahmadiyyah by Muhammad (AS), with his Sahaba, Tibi In, and tabi tabi In. We do not discriminate in America and no one single group thinks its an authority of islam; you will not see a muslim in America not trying to Improve, but then as much as we are a minority, Allah has blessed us with America and has blessed America by us!

Dr. Reindeer, cut down the antlers so that you can get close to a Book. Read the Quran, its in there! It does not come from Disney, not because I dont see movies but were the truth lies, we must present it as is. Now Dr. help us get three gods out of one. one god out of three?

You cant do it, even as a dr. If curing people makes the difference, then all drs. are gods like Jesus, then?

On Youtube Christians praying like Muslims; Early Christians Prayer
26,955 views
sayyid14


On Youtube Christians praying like Muslims: Daily Jewish Prayer & Submission - כריעות בשמונ,
114,653 views
omedyashar


Guys you will find many more on youtube, and am not savvy to even know if I got the one that I have here. Whats so interesting is that commentator said of the Christian prostration way of prayer that Muslims adopted it, in Egypt or whereever! But he forgot that Islam came to Egypt complete with standing, bowing and prostrating. But he forgot or does not know that the Jews also do the same things; standing, bowing and prostrating!

Which group copied the other between the Christians and the Jews?


Which of them did Islam copied?


And what happened that later groups of Christians abandoned what the earliest Cristians practiced? Civilization now or wy do you disregard what those who say Jesus prayed, copied it frm him and you now think you are better?

How about the Jews abandoning what Moses obviously did, and of course we know that Jesus did it, meeting the requirement of not "abolishing the laws and the prophets"? Is there any answer except that Salah is commanded and the prophets did it and enjoined it upon their companions, yet you walked away from it?

I submit to you the Lord's Prayer is a secondary prayer of personal choice but it is The Prostration part of Prayer that is commanded.


In the Quran, in many Surah, we see the prophets enjoined with prayers; Salah of their time but must include Sadjah and Ruku. Mary the mother of mary was told in Surah Mariam to do exactly that. She as doing it before her son was born. Her son mentioned Salah when he was defending her honor as a woman who is Chasted. Moses was told this specifically in Surah Taha at the burning bush.

@Noetic: « #79 on: Today at 03:24:58 PM »  

what a shame  
do  u know that all the words in quote from the passage u copied are verses from the bible? how could they have been refering to muslims?
this is entirely ridiculous.

They are violent words. I just find it so sad you lie like this, noetic. Lying on the Bible just to accuse me?

this thread is designed for u to sell islam and not to embarrass urself by revealing your lack of breadth on trinity. . . . .what stops u from selling islam? is it cos its a bad product?

I am selling Islam, by Allah on two fronts, methodically destroying the fallacies of Christianity and the Bible and surgically presenting Islam as it is. In the first quote you are claiming these obviously violent statements as to come from the pages of the Bible, which you must proof to me that they truly come from it, other wise I will say it fits Islam, a religion you say is violent, on one hand, and then on the other hand present the docile turn the other CHEEK, an idea that is impossible, even for my girl JeSoul, except from a long distance between Abuja and her Boston MA place.

But constituent(s) were they? Which one or ones will he be identified by? I hope he did not belong to anything else, with Islam. And unless there is a medical or legal reason for keeping a body, the longer the body remains the more the body suffers, without being washed already and shrouded, and what will a body be doing around anyway, if its a good soul the body and soul should be hurried to its place to remain so that it can see paradise.

If its an evil soul, the body should be taking off the neck of the community, and let it go meet its evil fate! I do not know why he will walk away from the sunnah of his Messenger (AS) for his constituents, which is greater, Allah and His Messenger (AS) or his constituents? The whole of the world is nothing and to thing the whole of nigeria is something is surprising.

Finally, the late man was not an authority on Islam by his wish, and a person who says a muslim can only marry just 1 wife, or more than 4 at the same time both did not pay 100% to Fard from the Quran or the Sunnah. I will not marry a woman expect as the Fard and Sunnah require.

All in all, may Allah forgives him. By the way, no one calls the lifeless thing AbdalGhaniyy Faweyinmi any longer, but a body! Its use on earth is zero and only the grave benefits it if its a body of believeing suoul. And can anyone tell us how long the body of any prophet in the Bible was kept before burial, if he is to be buried in the place he died and there is no reason to keep it, war, etc!

@Democrazy: Bernum Bailey of Wringly Brothers, Bernum and Bailey circus was reported to have said "a fool is born every hour." Also the expression that you can fool some people all the times, or even fool all people some of the times, but you can not fool all people all the time. In that very same spirit that honesty will shine through at the end, is why I have asked that you Christians should explain without anyone being confused and or being able to see your folly of terrible idea explained with the same essence, thinking people will accept it, the WORD or IDEA Trinity on one hand and how is it that Jesus is God, when he begged, prayed, cried, etc to another God who he said is GREATER, calling himself at sometimes son of man, prophet and never said I am God, yet you call him that; please explian yourself.

Sometimes, i'm amazed with the way u expose some of the lies in the quran.Often, i laugh my a££ off.Just one little advice,pls dont respond to all that(lies) olabs has to say. I've been there b4(I mean in olabs position).[/b]But one thing is certain,if u lie once,u have to lie ten times in order to cover your [b]a££.And that's what olabs knows how to do best.If u look at his analysis,most of the time, he uses worldly examples that are illogical.[/b]He's so ignorant of the Bible and even if i may say, the quran.Anyway,i don't expect much from someone [b]who doesnt even believe in the sole purpose of Jesus Christ on earth which is salvation for mankind through his death and resurrection

Let me first say this to you; you must have never read your Bible if you think that the sole purpose of Jesus on earth was what you said, and if you can, please cull it out, directly from the mouth of Jesus, in Any of the Canonized, never mind of the unconized Gospels; Chapter and Verse, we want to read it for ourselves. From your Bible Jesus said "I do not come to abolish the laws and the Prophets, but to fulfill them. Even no single jot will be unfulfilled, and whosoever abolishes or even instruct others to abolish shall be the least in the Kingdom." Now tell me, did Jesus not come for this too and others, and where did he say that he will die for your salvation, and be resurrected for it?"

And as to the Quran, I am not a scholar, so you are right. But then, I want you to argue yor case and just saying it without any suporting evidence is no good enough for those of us whose heart cant take it because of our human quality of ignorance. I use worldly examples because I am human being and am discussing with human beings, and maybe because of my ignorance it looks adequate to me. Now you are higher in spirituality, plase explain yourself to us humans without using human acceptable worldly things/ examples, and please do a good "ANGELIC JOB" to convince us. This should be very interesting.


And how can somebeing like you who is not a human being could possiby have been in my place/position before? Explain yourself, but use human thinking this time. I cant think like any other being but human only. And please point to any lie that you find in the Quran? If disagreeing is a lie, then imagine if the disagreement is actually the correct idea, then the idea that one thought was correct all along is now the lie! Think about that for a moment. Finally my "poundpound" expression is in your Pound Sterling expression; I have Dollar sign while I was looking for your British currency sign that was not on my computer, so there!


Am waiting o, Omo. I will get the tidbit from you, otherwise I will take it that you know that we are correct and you are wrong; No? David and others can participate in it to help; this is selling of islam, and you have to answer all questions.

For more information(s), do your own research, List all verses that says Paradise, Forgiveness, Mercy, etc from the index pages of the English languaged what it means of Quran Verses. Then go to Tafsir Ibn Kathir and analyse them after you read them first, directly.

@Noetic: You have asked that I supply what benefit is there for being a Muslim You asked by entry # 29 that I give you Quranic verse: I could have given you hundreds of them but I dont have that much time on hand, so I go to give you the tafsir of the last Verse of Surah FAJR:

On the Day of Judgement Everyone will be recompensed according to what He did of Good or Evil

Allah informs of what will happen on the Day of Judgement of the great horrors. He says,

[كَلاَّ]

(Nay!) meaning, truly.

[إِذَا دُكَّتِ الاٌّرْضُ دَكّاً دَكّاً]

(When the earth is flatened, Dakkan Dakka.) meaning, the earth and the mountains will be flattened, leveled and made even, and the creatures will rise from their graves for their Lord.

[وَجَآءَ رَبُّكَ]

(And your Lord comes) meaning, for the session of Judgement between His creatures. This is after they requested the best of the Sons of Adam -- Muhammad -- to intercede with Allah. This will occur only after they have requested the other great Messengers, one after another. Yet, all of them will say, "I cannot do that for you.'' This will continue until the beseeching of the men reaches Muhammad , and he will say, "I will do it, I will do it.'' So he will go and seek to intercede with Allah as the session of Judgement will have come, and Allah will allow him to intercede for that (the Judgement). This will be the first of the intercessions, and it is the praiseworthy station that has already been discussed in Surat Subhan (Al-Isra'). So Allah will come for the session of Judgement as He wills, and the angels will also come, lined up in rows upon rows before Him. Then Allah says,

[وَجِىءَ يَوْمَئِذٍ بِجَهَنَّمَ]

(And Hell will be brought near that Day.) In his Sahih, Imam Muslim bin Al-Hajjaj recorded that `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said that the Messenger of Allah said,

«يُؤْتَى بِجَهَنَّمَ يَوْمَئِذٍ لَهَا سَبْعُونَ أَلْفَ زِمَامٍ مَعَ كُلِّ زِمَام سَبْعُونَ أَلْفَ مَلَكٍ يَجُرُّونَهَا»

(Hell will be brought on near that Day and it will have seventy thousand leashes, and each leash will have seventy thousand angels pulling it.) At-Tirmidhi also recorded the same narration. Allah said:

[يَوْمَئِذٍ يَتَذَكَّرُ الإِنسَـنُ]

(On that Day will man remember,) meaning, his deeds, and what he did before in his past and recent times.

[وَأَنَّى لَهُ الذِّكْرَى]

(but how will that remembrance avail him) meaning, how can remembrance then benefit him

[يَقُولُ يلَيْتَنِى قَدَّمْتُ لِحَيَاتِى ]

(He will say: "Alas! Would that I had sent forth for my life!'') meaning, if he was a disobedient person, he will be sorry for the acts of disobedience he committed. If he was an obedient person, he will wish that he performed more acts of obdedience. This is similar to what Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal recorded from Muhammad bin Abi `Amirah, who was one of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah . He said, "If a servant fell down on his face (in prostration) from the day that he was born until the day he died as an old man, in obedience to Allah, he would scorn this act on the Day of Judgement. He would wish to be returned to this life so that he could earn more reward and compensation.'' Allah then says,

[فَيَوْمَئِذٍ لاَّ يُعَذِّبُ عَذَابَهُ أَحَدٌ ]

(So on that Day none will punish as He will punish.) meaning, there is no one more severely punished than those whom Allah punishes for disobeying Him.

[وَلاَ يُوثِقُ وَثَاقَهُ أَحَدٌ ]

(And none will bind as He will bind.) meaning, there is no one who is more severely punished and bound than those the Az-Zabaniyah punish the disbelievers in their Lord. This is for the criminals and the wrongdoers among the creatures. In reference to the pure and tranquil soul -- which is always at rest and abiding by the truth it will be said to it,

[يأَيَّتُهَا النَّفْسُ الْمُطْمَئِنَّةُ ارْجِعِى إِلَى رَبِّكِ]

(O tranquil soul! Come back to your Lord.) meaning, to His company, His reward and what He has prepared for His servants in His Paradise.


[رَّاضِيَةٍ]


(well-pleased) meaning, within itself.


[مَّرْضِيَّةً]

(well-pleasing.) meaning, pleased with Allah, and He will be pleased with it and gratify it.

[فَادْخُلِى فِى عِبَادِى ]


(Enter then among My servants,) meaning, among their ranks.


[وَادْخُلِى جَنَّتِى ]


(And enter My Paradise!) This will be said to it at the time of death and on the Day of Judgement. This is like the angels giving glad tiding to the believer at his time of death and when he rises from his grave. Likewise is this statement here. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded from Ibn `Abbas concerning Allah's statement,


[يأَيَّتُهَا النَّفْسُ الْمُطْمَئِنَّةُ - ارْجِعِى إِلَى رَبِّكِ رَاضِيَةً مَّرْضِيَّةً ]


(O tranquil soul! Come back to your Lord, well-pleased and well-pleasing!) He said, "This Ayah was revealed while Abu Bakr was sitting (with the Prophet ). So he said, `O Messenger of Allah! There is nothing better than this!' The Prophet then replied,


«أَمَا إِنَّهُ سَيُقَالُ لَكَ هَذَا»

(This will indeed be said to you.)'' This is the end of the Tafsir of Surat Al-Fajr, and all praise and blessings are due to Allah.

@Democrazy: « #67 on: Today at 05:00:21 AM

@Olabowale,
Alhaji, take it easy.I feel you. I don't have any reason to argue with you cos you've already known what you've got to know.Infact more than. However,I've heard you ask times without number concerning the Trinity that,how can 1+1+1 be 1? Have you ever ask the same Mathematicians why 1x1x1=1?

Are Jesus X Holy Ghost X Father = 1? Which 1 can you give up or how many 1s can you give up and still have complete 1, Names please and not justbeing evasive and run off like a water collecting in a gutter, running off through the pipe to a reserviour!

Are they not; Jesus + Holy Ghost + Father = ( )? Ol boy fill in the number for me, abeg.

Then try these math posible expressions; 0/1, or 3, or 3 is equal to ( )? Ol boy fill in the number for me, abeg.

How about 1 or 2 or 3/0 is equal to ( )? Ol boy fill in the number for me, abeg.

How about 1/1/1 = ( )? Ol boy fill in the number for me, abeg.

How about 1 - 1 - 1 = ( )? Ol boy fill in the number for me, abeg.

How about 1squared 1 squared 1 = ( )? Ol boy fill in the number for me, abeg.
Is any and al of these represent your Gods, God, gods, god? You tell me, am just listening and asking questions based on your statment, not making anything up out of Christendom. You will never read from me that you said that Paul is God or a prophet, but I can say that you take Paul to be more important than Jesus, etc.

Cheerio

You too, Cheerios!

@Davidylan:« #66 on: Today at 04:03:34 AM »

the price really is your soul alhaji. Sorry you're pawning yours off to the highest bidder.

And who should I give mine to, God the Father?

or God the son?

or God the Holy spirit?

Who guarantees me 100% from the three, and I need to go to that Single Guarantor, if there is any, am not looking for a combination? And I have nothing but my Soul and I do not want to gamble my life away. Aburo, tell me which one gangan, gongon! Let me ask you is Complete Master less effective on His servant, than the individual effectiveness of 3 Complete Masters, who need not depend on any of other 2 to enact His complete effectiveness on the servant of the 3 Complete Masters?

Finally, can the servant of the 3 Complete Masters scenerio serve each of the Masters on time, if each gave him their own each a dn different assignment(s) to complete at the same time, having the same degree of difficulties, and needed to be reported as finished at the same time, each Master is in different offices, whereby at the beginning of the job and finishing it, only one can be done out of the three?

The only way the Servant can satisfy the three of them without getting anyone of the Complete Masters mad, upset that it shows that He is less of a master than the master whose errant was completed, is if the Servant is playing God, or what do you think, David?

Do you think the servant whose Master is One Master, is at a disadvantage of finishing his job and receiving praise of good servantry from his Master, if you compare it with the dilemma s of what the three Mastered serveant is having when his job effort and time and fearing Master possible punishment is each three times as much?

David talk to me. Am listening.

The "Ordained" Fight
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses."

"The Book of guidance" frequently refers to the "believer" life and work in athletic or combative terms. When all things are considered, reason compels the "believer" to enter into the race and fight.

First, our Commander is worth following. He leads us into battle and stands with us on the front lines receiving the fiercest fire: "Let us run with patience the race. . . . Looking unto "Him" the "essence" of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the Hrdship"

Second, we are well-armed and protected. The "whole armour of God" includes the girdle of "truth," the "breastplate of righteousness," shoes of "the preparation of the "preaching" of peace," "the shield of faith," "the helmet of salvation," and "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God". The warrior's mouth is filled with prayers and bold speech; his sword has no scabbard, and his back has no armour, for retreat is unthinkable.

The goal of our fight urges us on. We strive to undermine the kingdom of darkness and to fill it with light. Each must battle on to exalt our Leader and to champion His Word. "Consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds".

To the victor belongs the spoils. "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne". We no longer will be soldiers, but kings; we will trade our battle armour for robes, washed and made "white in the "sweat" of the "struggle". Our helmet will be replaced by an "incorruptible" crown-- "a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give |us| at that day" :.

This is a beautiful piece which I copied, destribing, I thought the violence that Muslim must enact on mankind, before he is rewarded by Allah. What do you thing, you think Islam will change the world without fighting the heathens?


Give me your opinions guys and see if this does not describe Islam and Muslims?

Islam should rid off hypocrites and he or she should only be muslim when not going to be hypoctite in the heart but muslim in the mouth, without a single internal shred to the essence of Islam. From the pool of nieces from a sister, the one I thought will be a terrible person, still a virgin now is planning to marry this year, she is 26 and knows what she wants.

There is nothing Jesus did that was extra ordinary; he should have been born as adult, or just became adult right after she came out of mom, and not depend on her as normal human. Adam was created a fully grown man, there is no mom to breast him, etc. Yet Adam is no God. Eve his wife was cloned as a full adult, no one to breast her, or be a father to her, the original man is her husband, a bigger miracle since it was reported that they have normal children in the physiological and genetical ways, and they were the first to do this, another miracle.

Or was it Jesus that created them, as in molding them if you will, or the Islamic Be, so it Be (Kun Fa ya Kun)? What did Jesus do and who created Jesus, and if you say Jesus was not created, then we have incomplete Creator(s) in Christendom. None of the miracles of Jesus was something that man was not familiar with before he performed them. He did not perform miracle at any time to save his own life, instead his parents ran away with him to Egypt, the country that imprisoned as slaves his people, and not yet Coptic Christians, no?


As adult he surrendered to a human Judge and Judgement and your Bible recorded that he was hung. He did not show a prophetic faith, in his fate on the tree he lamented about God, not father, not partner, not trinity abandoning him. Man, tell a better story, because am waiting.

Boys, I listed Miracles from Allah through Muhammad (AS) in this thread on August 30, 2009 starting from entry # 173 at 06.56 pm, through # 182, where curing eyes was a good beginning since thats what you guys almost hanged a muslim man Babs787 on because he wrote pupil, instead of the whole eye. Muhammad performed miracles on eyes, at three different times, telling one to simple go home and make Wudu and make 2 Rakah; thats grace when you instruct a person how to cure himself, to the one that Babs mentioned a part instead of a whole.

Muhammad (AS) healed a severed limb, as he attached it, by the permission of Allah. Read my posts guys and I left reference sources for you. Miracles are not the only litmus of prophethood, because others performed miracles. Moses (AS) an earlier prophet performed the raising of the dead, long time before Jesus did. Even the bones of dead Elijah or Elisha raise up a person by simply touching the dead with it. What did Jesus do that you thought he was more than a prophet that you guys are falling over heels on the Annie Oakley "Pligrim.1" conclusion on Islam? Put Islam to test on your own; I know you guys are mad because Islam says Jesus is only a human prophet; and ample examples are provided to help you reason which you fail to take.

Heck, if I say Davidylan is a man, and somebody else always taking him to be a little girl, my arguments to proof that he is not a little girl should center around his been a male from from birth, and proofing that he was born some 20 plus years ago, and has remained a man, intending to marry, get the wife pregnant and have a good wholesome family.


If after I have made good proveable argument about my position giving all the reasons he is a man, and destroying the silly blanketted statement that he wore pretty clothing as a new born baby, the only reason the person things he is a little girl based on a framed, undated colored picture, if the person refuses to accept, then we clearly know that such a person is ignorant, daft, stubborn, etc all of at least one of them, since he or she is not even able to support his/her own reason for such a silly conclusion! This is what we have with your Trinitarian argument, and Pligrim.1 is not even a good Christian, because she has not stopped being boy crazy, she probably is worse now that there is no Hjab/Covering/Veil to shield her from anything and all kinda approaches. (I am saying that she is having sex, but am using her own word to diescribe her "pursuibg boys".

@Helperzz: If Pligrim.1's conclusion is the final answer on Islam, then what inference does the conclusion of Estes, a former Preacher, a white Texan has on Christianity on Christianity, now that he is a Muslim Sheikh in America, where Islam is not popular? Lets compare both of them in their former lives;

Pligrim.1 told us her life history from Lagos to Georgia. She emphasised that she wore Hijab, coming from moderately conservative Muslim family. She made sure to tell us that she chased boys, and particularly white boys. She told us that she defended Islam and ridiculed Christianity, ala statements of Muhamad (AS), and them wham, she found Jesus through one of these many white boyfriends! She also informed us that her father found Jesus just about that time, and sure her mother and her computer Engineer, or scientist whose earning made her to be able to spend even more monies at the malls is now a christian, too.

Sheikh Yusuf Estes told us about his life history how much he thought he could convince a Muslim Egyptian businessman, to become Christian, while at the same time hoping to sell Pianos and Drums to all the Mosques in the world, until he found Islam agreeable and he confesses that his father and step mother are still christians.


Lets compare the morality of the two; At young age, religious or not, no young persons should occupy their hearts with the thought of any from the opposite sex! The outcome is alway not as good as if the heart is relatvely free from sex and people of opposite gender. But Pligrim.1 made sure that she looked forthem, ran after many white boys, changing one for the other, from England to America, all the while donning the Hijab, a dress code to actually commanded to serves exactly the opposite of what she "forcefully looked for", in my opinion, because she did not allow the boys to even look and try to approach she put it out there, going after them herself. This is what she said in her own "type/word".


Should anyone expect a better outcome than her leaving Islam? I do not, considering that Hijab did not protect her from nothing, and I see Black and White young persons, muslims and non Muslims not occupying their mind as much with the opposite gender. Lets face it, people who cant be conforming to what they say they are are hypocrites and sooner Allah exposes hypocracy. They say if you laydown with dogs you will get up with fleas, and the sheep that is in the company of dogs, always will eat what dogs eat! These are enough to show plausible reasons she left Islam, and she knew nothing in Islam then, even as she said she submitted, her heart didnt!

Before she puts up her life History, I had asked that I speak with her father, thinking that he was in far away Nigeria, until she said he lives with the family in Georgia USA, while she studies in England. Her father, okay alittle older than me, if at all, will be a better person to discuss with than her, only to ask him what he found in Christianity that was missing in Islam; Is it the 3 persons God? Or the killing of one of them to get the salvation from the three of them, while he reluctantly dies/give up the ghost(spirit in human/soul in human) as he cried out and many more, but she never gave me the chance.

My conclusion is that she either made her story up, knew not Islam, except as a yoruba girl, and combinations of internet knowledge, she weaved a very interesting a whooper of a tale.

Sheikh Estes is a better moral man than when he was a Christian today. He does not give every woman a peck which is nothing among the Christians, ready to hug and almost caress a stranger at the drop of a dime, all under the disguise of salutation, or a little more!

Democrazy must be @Poundpound of it to say he has been where I am now! Your mother was a Christian while your father was Muslim and died in March 1966? You went to Christian school under Michael Adekunle Ajasin, a close leutenant of Awolowo, you roommated with a pastor in University, and married a Christian woman, with two sons from her, in the mid 20s? You could never be me, because my mother Alhamdulillah is now a muslim, a thing that I never thought could happen and never intended to discuss until 2002!

Today my women are Muslim women! Where do we make a convergence? Please explain Trinity in a logical sense that no one has to look at you as if you lost your mind taking them for a "FOOL" to accept it? Explain how Salvation by Jesus will not even help many bigtime miracle workers of the Bible to make Paradise, because Jesus will say I know yea not? Explain how a God dies and yet alive? Explain how a God is begging another to safe him from the progrom that was about to happen to him? Explain how you turn the other cheek when you already said that you came with war and not peace, dividing members of a family against another, and asking poor people with just feww cloth to buy Swords instead, and then post Jesus Bible, Timothy and others is full of Fighting and war and battle themes?

Please I need explanations, and be generous and dont be shy, noetic has failed your cause big time, except calling people names and swearing like a drunken sailor! I want you to save christianity, if you have the gull, and am willing to listen and let you pull all the stops, but at the end, if its illogical we will call you out and tell you whats illogical and ask you to correct it, do better!



Start with Trinity and explain it. Then you can show us how Mary still remains a virgin after you said hshe was married to Joseph, before Jesus and after Jesus still a virgin, afetr sex, being a mother of others and a wife of sexually seasoned Carpenter man Joseph, who knows what to do with a woman, the reason he wanted her?


Try your hand to be the skipper of the sinking ship. I see Olaadegbo as abad popagator like the Arab Christian who is pretending to be a muslim with the attire, telling muslim unsuspeting of this evil clean shaven never made a sadjah Kafir that Trinity is in Quran! When you see tose who prostrate their faces you see the impression on it, unlie that darm mutamushrik of an arab. An Aarab; read Surah Tauba's verse97.

@ Olabs
what I hate the most about your posts is the LIES u are fond of telling.
1. Adam was never a muslim. . . . . if u claim he was. . . .I ask. . . .what revelation did he receive from allah? in how many days did allah create the earth?

Allah says to Muhammad that Islam was completed on Muhammad (AS), showing that the process started way before Muhammad. Allah list some of the messengers, and or prophets (AS), in 41 to 54 of Surah Mariam, with some identifier qualities. Go read them. Ad as to your the numbers of days for reation, let give you my weekly responsibilities, and them use it to help you understand the numbers of days for creation,

In a week, I called Nigeria 7 days, then I eat 7 days. Then I shower 7 days, Then I sleep 7 days. Then I pray 7 days. Then I receive guess 3 days. I go out 1 day. If I stop here as my weekly activities, please add all the days I spend to complete my weekly activities? If my math is correct, it will be 39 days! How is that possible if a week is only 7 days? A smart person will know that all those things I do in seven days will include all of those things; at most 1 day I did every type of things, and in at least 3 days I did just only 5 things, each sharing a part of the day, and may even do the caling and while eating! This is the same with 6 days for total creations, some creation processes occur at the same time with others!

2. if adam was a muslim. . .why did allah not tell adam himself to bury abel the same day?. . . . .this is called islamic fraud, . .why did adam have to learn from an animal?

Cain killed Abel. Cain carried Abel around. Cain saw what the bird did as similar to what he did. So he imitated the burial as he saw the bird did. You dont read, thats your Biggest problem. How was it explained in the Bible or it was left alone.

3. The second muslim case is a lie and a fraud. why would I believe that allah raised a person from dead? the same allah who said aaron was mary's sister? or that mary is God's wife?

Jehovah as Jesus only repeated what was already available in creation in all his miracles and I ask you why not a thing never seen before, an original? You are son of Adam or are you not, a human being? And whenthe catholic saysMary is the mother of God Jesus and they say Jesus is the son of God the father, what do you from deduct get about mary and God the father?

By the way, there is no place in the Quran where what you said is insituated, directly or indirectly!

allah comes across as an unintelligent ignoramus. , .allah could not have raised anyone from the dead. is there any non-koran/haddith evidence that backs your claim?

Ask scholars of the Jewish faithabout how they finally stopped in their hearts by their tradition the belief of the "Calf", yet today they still have a branch known as Kabala! Ask them if a dead person was raised up to name hs killer by the meat of cow that they used to wake him up by the mere touch as per the instruction of Prophet Moses?

4. Gani gave specific instructions before he died. . . . .not to be buried islamically. . . . . .he was also not a muslim fanatic . . . .he had his reasons.
He probably realised afterall that allah is a monumental FRAUD.

And in all of that he did not convert to Christianity. His grand nephew is like a son to me, Dr. Ahmed Omokeyinde, in Ondo township accent, he they young Dr. is waxing stronger in Islam. And he knows that Islam is no fraud. Now tell me what I dont know, since all you are say =ing is alread been asnwred long time before yur asking it?

By the way what benefit is it to the body if a dead person is kept for hundreds of years not buried? He will before long then toyed around wit, look at whats happening to Fir'awn?!

@Noetic: Arrogance is to much in your speech. The yoruba says arrogance leads destrutions. Learn from the history of those who have gone by. Fir'awn said he indeed was the lord of Egypt and by his command th Nile river flows, and said Musa did not have a God, even if he Pharaoh were to climb up to heaven by a high enough building that he was asking Hamana (Hamman) to build, heaven will be empty, so he did by arrogance say no one should worry about Mose and his Lord! Hamman existed like Qaarun in the court of the tyrannical King. And soon he was perish by the staff of Moses.

Ariel Shaon is the same thing, a modren day Pharaoh. Where is he now?

And finally to your manny questions: Muslim is defined a person surendering his will to Allah. When you summit, it is willingly not wrestled from you. And the fact that it is willing submission, it is a peaceful therefore, since there is no struggle or force used on you. I used Peaceful since it is willingly because of the incorrect thesis that Pligrim.1 presented about it.

Islam is the religion of Willing submission, where the tenets is foremost acceptance of ONE GOD ALLAH, and negating any others, known and unknow.



It is the definition that the Muslim says of their Religion, and you can try to critique it but dont say because you cant completely take it in that this process can apply to all people all generations, all the way back to Adam "OUR FATHER", your father and my father, this therefore points out to you, once again that Mary was also Aaron's sister, if you and I can be sons of Adam, that the concept of islam does not extend before the generation of Muhammad (AS). Read Quran, Ibrahim, in An Am towards the end that he was the first in his time to be a Muslim. He qualified it by saying his prayers (salati) , etc are for Allah's pleasure.

Maybe Noetic has an understanding of the unknown? Maybe AbdulGhaniyy discussed his private affairs with Noetics, leaving out his grandnephew , Dr. Ahmad Oluwarotimi Omokehinde out? I know Dr. Omokehinde and if he were in Nigeria he would have something to say, encouraging the family to bury him quicker, and not delaying.

But of course, people practice Islam according to their undersatand and desire, and if a muslim makes a mistake, in death you should correct him, if you know, so that he does not have a harder time with his Lord. Let me give you an example, if a muslim were to cut out his parents in his estate, even if they are not muslims, and his reason was just that, the people of knowledge who are making the divisions should restore what is the parents and not follow the wrong Instructions of the deceased blindly.

Noetic, in the Quran, the two sons of Adam and Hawa were the first birth on earth, and in time, the bad one with evil heart killed the one who is a "believer" by the Islam given to the time, Adam being the first in submission to Allah, and when he went wrong by nearing the "Tree" which he was warned about, he seeked forgiveness, the first to seek it and the first to receive it. When I used him, I mean he and his wife, okay.


When the son killed the believing brother, in the life time of their parents, the believing son was a Matyr, a Suhadah, hence the reason the inspiration to wash him before burial, while when it came to Adam, the community was inspired on how to wash the dead. Now the good brother was not buried for a long time, even to the point that his body began to rot, until a mere raven had to show how to dig a grave and bury a dead body. This is the first death, a muslim and there was a delay.


The second one has a medical or spiritual rason, like in the form of whodunniit; Surah backarah again in the prophethood of Musa (AS), wher a piece of cow meat was used to wake a dead person up (Musa ressurected a man), so that he can tell them who was the evil man that killed him, a believer! Read Surah Baqarah Verses 72 and 73.

2:72to topMuhsin Khan: And (remember) when you killed a man and fell into dispute among yourselves as to the crime. But Allah brought forth that which you were hiding.


2:73to topMuhsin Khan: So We said: "Strike him (the dead man) with a piece of it (the cow)." Thus Allah brings the dead to life and shows you His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) so that you may understand.


Read 73 again; Allah destroys Trinity by this verse, by using We at the begining, then in the middle mentions His Personal name, Allah, and ends it up by saying His, a clear destruction to show that the WE refers to Allah Alone in HIS Majestic postion.

@Noetic: Teaching could be as simple as emulation of a person's character. No one needs to split your head open and stuff in what you may consider "teaching you." You may disagree with a people, an idea, a notion, but you do not show a disdain for reasonable argument because it is the view that you do not accept. Sometimes you sound so arrogant that you seem to me as a spoiled only child of an aged parents. I am confident that is not completely so, and even if that is so, you are not imitating any good from a man who occupied the same only son of an aged mother, Isaac. Study his life history and stop being arrogant because everything "curse and insult" from your mouth. Youth should improve you and learn from others.

Your case is different from the case of muslim. When a muslim ask question about something, he/she wishes you give a human level of explanation that the heart and mind (soul/good spirit) can take. So trinity is rejected not because Islam blindly rejects it, it gives many many more explanations than the whole of the Bible can mount up to present and justify trinity.

Imam Ahmad stated that if he argues with an intelligent person, he will defeat the intelligent man.


But if he Imam Ahmad argues with a fool, an ignoran person that person will defeat him, because he/she will never be satisfied with any and all reasonable explanations and persuativeness, logical argument.

mazaje if i hang around you, i will be playing with shaitan, and i have no need for either. it is the last 10 days of a beautiful month. it should not be wasted on ignorance.

now that i said that, let me obliged you, that unlike most muslims, i follow muhammad (AS) and those who follow him. whenever a person does not follow him, i abandone that person and follow the one that follows him (AS).

Allah says in the Quran that this Ummah is the middle course nation, never extreme as is too careless or too hard (Surah Imran, I think)

Allah says that the Ummah of Muhammad is the one that is the ideal example for mankind, and Muhammad is the ideal example for his ummah (Surah Nissa, I think).

Allah also says that believers are those who hear the recitation and get the best meaning of it (Surah Najm)


Now ahadith and sunnah are speech and act made by Muhammad (AS) or made by someone in the presence of Muhammad and if he does not correct them or forbids the act or speech, it is as if he had done it himself (AS).

So when people says that Aisha says she married Muhammad (AS) at 9, which is what you have problem with, I do not have problem with it, if it is true. However as I analyse it, it is very clear to me that it can not be accepted as an ahadith, because it did not come from Muhammad, but Aisha, but thats what they classified it as, not just a speech, so I nullify it as a non ahadith. I want you to count with me wy I reject it.

Secondly, the narator is claimed to be a person who does not tell the truth, always, and this ahadith was not narated in Madina, but bagdad Iraq. It may not mean much, but this very important thing, ahadith should be narated by many others. It is very clear to me that all of these lead to its not being Sahih but daif, in my own view.

It is also uncharacteristic of the prophet, just as it is uncharacteristics of him (AS) to be reported by "Aisha" (RA) that he hit her in the chest that it hurt her. Muhammad was not a person who gives in to abusing his women, his family and it was his good nature that made Zaid ibn Thabit refused to leave him, even though as his father pleaded with the prophet to release him, the prophet said to the father, let young Zaid choose, a choice of the prophet led to adopting him, all in the preIslamic Makka, why then will he beat his wife, whom he loved now that he is the prophet to give the example to mankind?


It is easy for me to say without other example; and there is, a companion was in the company of the prophet, when he the prophet touch the man a little more that the pressure of mere touching, he begged the man to do the same to him, right away because he does not want the companion (RA) to demand his right of retaliation in the day of Judgement before Allah and the assembly of mankind! The companion was shock and after so much persuation by the prophet who pleaded with the man for immediate equity, the companion asked him to raise his cloth so that his stomach can be exposed above the belly button, the man kissed it and that he will to be rewarded as a one who kissed the skin of the prophet instead to touching it hard.


How then do you think it is possible that Muhammad will hit a woman and not ask her to hit him back so that the revenge is on this earth and not on the day of judgement?

What report that Aisha said and what they report that Muhammad said, it any of them is unlike the expected characteristic of his nobility, we have to rejct it. When some one says he slept with a woman he was not married to, I know that they lied because he said that his branch of the Adam family line no one performed Zina, and he as a prophet will not performed it considering that when many are girl's crazy, he was not remaining a virgin at 25 to marry twice widowed 15 years older woman, regardless of her wealth it shows that he was speacial!


So what they say that Aisha said could not have ben coming from Aisha, but from a desire of whoever said it first, a lie pasing down as truth which others have been suckered in to act upon.


Now a 19 year old girl is a little girl to me. Dr. Nwando, alias Osisi, who is a mother and accomplished in her own right is definitely older than 19, yet I call her young girl and she knows that she is a young girl to me, not a baby, she is happy am sure when her husband calls her baby, afterall she used to be babyosisi, and when her parents call her baby which she really is, and me calling her a young girl by virtue of the fact that she is younger than me.

So for a 19 year old or even 18 years old girl, who is matured is a woman to me and capable of being married if she can handle it, but not forced to i. It is not reported that Aisha was forced because she did not even have anything to say towards any sadnes at the beginning of the marriage. So we now have a statement of she said, which can not substantiated that she actually said it, because the circumstances of the statement was not established. So I am a majority, even though by head count in the minority saying tis ahadith is no hadith and aisha (RA) will never have reported anything like this, because she would have said it to more than just the lone reporter! And time and place were just not actually insynch to proof it, since it is uncharacteristic of the prophet to do something just ones.

He married divorce women and widows more than one, and older more than kadijah, or just her an usual case, virgin just Aisha, an unusual case, but not underage, especially that her father was a Donald rump of his time!


Mazaje, am a muslim, let me worship my Lord, and you worship your desire, your idea, your "god". When I have time I willrespond to you. If Aisha is 9, so be it, she did not compalin, and neither her of her parent a Donald trump and Evana comlained, so what is your headache about it, if you are to ignore my overwhelming evidntial opinions, and more imprtantly, Proofs against your effort to malign?

call it what you may, your empty rhetorics wl no effect. i could easily say that you are a blond woman based on your location, then i disregard your id, and the fact that you may be african blak=ck based on the majority of the identity of the nlanders.

this will be wrong, definitely, but thats exactly what you have done with your blanketed statement. to be liberal does not mean to openly dishonest and stupid. not having a religion, or idealogy is a personal thing, but people are sued for libel and defamation because of lies.


all that u are doing is lying. do it with the bible, not Quran. you need to read it first.