₦airaland Forum

alBHAGDADI:
What a pile load of junk.

Look at the great length you went just to justify lies.

I doubt your JW people believes this crap you concucted.

why U think say people dey use corner corner eyes dey look what is referred to as "blood money"?
Na that same eyes naim David take look that water wey him men wey risk their life to fetch for him.
Acts 15:20,29.
a) "Abstain from food polluted by idols " U will eat blood prepared with such foods.

b) "Abstain from blood"
c)"Abstain from meat of strangled animals,
d) Abstain from sexual immorality. "U mix body fluids & even even unknowingly exchange blood with someone else.

Each of this God given edict ( "a-d" prohibited blood consumption . The principle is ,U no go receive blood into your body or put am inside your body by any means..

Blood transfusion equates with "a" to "d",hence violates this principle.


alBAHGDADI, na U get your mouth. I thank God for freedom of speech.
Shalom.

eyinjuege:
What caught my interest in this thread was the mention of Serena Williams. I felt it was unfair to just assume the problems she faced post partum/delivery was because of her JW beliefs, when it clearly wasn't and had nothing to do with blood transfusion.
It's unfair to write off someone else's struggles particularly with their health, and just generalise that yes it's because she's JW.
She's rich, has access to the best health care so things could only go wrong because she is JW- very faulty assumptions. Like I explained earlier, her struggles had nothing to do with her beliefs, and giving her blood transfusion would have done nothing, as she didn't need one. It probably would have worsened her case.
I felt it was unfair on her especially when the narrative wasn't like that
When it comes to people's life choices, it's theirs. When it comes to people's beliefs, it's also theirs. You may not agree with them, but provided they are not hurting anyone else then let them own it.
We can't always make the right decisions every time. These people don't believe in receiving other people's blood, so what are the other practical options available for them?
I believe the science of medicine is moving away from the Dr says it's this approach. It's now moving towards patient centered approach where their choices are not toyed with.
Whether right or wrong, what of their quality of life? Can a JW person live with themselves after being coerced into taking someone else's blood? So there's a mental health approach to it again. It's their beliefs.
Can you make them not believe that again? Possibly, but definitely not by putting down their beliefs or by lying on one of their members just to prove a point!

Very objective comment from eyinjuege.
So, the first OP,Seun didn't give us a clear ,concise narrative of the Serena William health issues ?
U have done a great service to everyone following this thread.
Stay blessed.
Shalom.

mictima:
Quick question sir:
1. About Those that died as a result rejecting blood transfusion; can we say that they were destined to die that way?

2. And that, does Jehovah want them dead? Or what exactly!

3. For those that died, can we rightly say that, the power and light could not save them? So Long, they stood their ground and maintained their Faith and rejected the blood transfusion in the first place?

Please, I need answer to these

As far as I Know, I think, the importance is to help ourselves till it gets out of hand...

You mentioned "chickened out"! What happens to self will? Why the advancement of knowledge if we won't better our lives with whatever we discover with our brains?

You also mentioned that, "three Children died after receiving blood transfusion for three days"... what about. Those that have been saved by the same transfusuion? My little niece was still saved 3days ago after being diagnosed with complex febrile convulsion and severe anaemia!

Well, wetin Be My own? Everybody Has His/her Life to live!

Your niece survived blood transfusion. It's your life your choice.

Many people today, JWs & non JWs alike have had major surgeries without blood transfusions and survived,healthy and strong. Overall, they enjoyed better health than recipients of blood transfusion. Its a fact confirmed by medical professionals.


To your first three questions, when God commanded Abraham to use his only begotten son for a sacrifice, from a human standpoint, did made any sense?
Again, did God not know that Abraham's only begotten son would lose his life in order for Abraham to fulfill God's command?

"it is not my portion gang", all of una wan go heaven, but none of una wanna die for faith/beliefs, if unforeseen circumstances make it so obvious. Make una no worry ,NASA spacecraft dey come transport una go there ni.... Fairweather Churchianity. Lol.

Faith doesn't make sense to anyone who doesn't believe in it (unbelievers).

alBHAGDADI:
Why are you committed to the best medicare? Why not stay away from medicine and rely on Jehovah to sustain your life?

That verse says abstain from blood. So, let me ask you: Do you touch the blood of chicken when you slaughter them? Do you touch the blood of fish when you are washing them to cook?

Yes you do. Can we now say you have obeyed that version that says abstain from blood? If JW can stretch the verse to mean something as huge as blood transfusion, which the verse doesn't say, then I wonder why they disobey the little ones such as touching the blood of a slaughtered animal.

Everyone knows the verse is talking about animal blood, not human blood. That was the same commandment given in the old testament. But you JW who teach the doctrines of men GB as commandments of God have stretched it to mean we are to abstain from human blood. That means doctors aren't to touch the blood of someone undergoing surgery. Even an injured person must not touch his own. blood.

Taking blood transfusion is not renouncing ones faith. There is no command that kicks against it. You guys just twisted a simple verse to say what it doesn't say.

I understand that the verse in Acts 15 wasn't quite specific as to the kind of blood one needs to stay away from. But as Bible students, when confronted with such, what is expected to do is to use scripture to interpret scripture.

Now, look at some of the passages talking about abstaining from blood. You can see that they all have to do with EATING ANIMAL BLOOD. I now wonder how you guys twisted Acts 15:29 to mean what it doesn't say.


Leviticus 17:14
For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.

Genesis 9:4
But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
Deuteronomy 12:23 ESV / 108 helpful votes
Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life, and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.

Acts 15:29
But should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

Leviticus 3:17
It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”

Leviticus 17:10
“If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.

Acts 15:29
That you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

Deuteronomy 12:16
Only you shall not eat the blood; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.

Mark 7:18-19
And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

Because u wanna make your point, u resorted to twist "abstain from blood" when U already know that God's edict prohibited u from putting any kind of blood into your body. Oma shey ooo !

The thing dey for market na, go buy am & transfuse na, its guarantees longevity.
Lols.

alBHAGDADI:
Then why do you hypocrites slam Catholics for being under one man - Pope?

You point one finger at others but have four pointing back at you.

Yours is even worse because your GB speak when God has not spoken. They make false end time prophecies. They even said Jesus returned to earth at one time.

How can one follow I men who say the world will end at a certain date when Jesus said no man knows the time?

If you say GB are imperfect, then what is their imperfection?

"They even said Jesus returned to earth at one time", must U lie because U disagreed with JW bible based beliefs ?

true2god:
JW official website that was designed to promote their beliefs and theology! How do you think he will get a balanced and uncompromised information from www.JW.org?

What Seun is asking is an independent response from the JWs, using their God-gjven brains. The truth is that if tomorrow the GB, at Brooklyn NY headquarters of JW, change their doctrine of this 'blood transfusion' issue, all JW zombies will immediately adjust to the 'new and brighter light'.

Why can't an average JW reason independently free from the manipulation and brainwashing of the 'watchtower organization'?

Keep quiet there. Na who dey wash your brain? The Israelites were united under the leadership of Moses, na U wash their brain ? Jesus Christ united his followers under his leadership, na U wash their brain? His followers sought direction from the older men in Jerusalem, na U wash their brain?

The Cosmos is well designed & organized by the ALMIGHTY God, if such inanimate celestial bodies are in order ,no chaos, what would U expect from a group of humans,although imperfect, but who strive to reverence the ALMIGHTY God Jehovah?
U prefer them to wallow in chaos, infighting & diverse factions.
Pls , its high time U go see a shrink.
Shalom.

alBHAGDADI:
OneJ barristter07 Tatime jozzy4

Is this thread too hot?

"Abstain from blood" na Arabic language wey una no fit understand wetin eee mean?

Blood is sacred , whether human or animal, God no dey joke with. am.

Don't come here to lie that "abstain from blood" does not mean U can not accept blood transfusion.


If your personal physician warned U to abstain from nicotine, & U went behind his back to use needle to inject yourself with that same substance into your body, have U obeyed or disobeyed your physician ?

Don't come here to distort Jesus ransom sacrifice for man's salvation.

Did Jesus give U his blood to transfuse into your body?

Jesus said "if anyone wants to come after me,let him disown himself..." Mark 8:34-37.
That is life of obedience & self sacrifice.

JWs are exclusively dedicated to do Jehovah's will in imitation of Jesus Christ who obeyed his Father, Jehovah in everything. We live for Jehovah & his son Jesus Christ .Rom14:7-9.

Jehovah values obedience (1 Sam 15:22,23) & faith in his word /promises. JWs have faith in Jesus words & God's promises This life is not all there is. Our faith is anchored firmly on the resurrection hope.
1 Pet 1:3. John 11:23-25. Rev 21:3-5. 2Pet 3:13.

If some one puts a gun to your head to renounce your faith/beliefs, your life is at stake, would U chicken out & take the easy option?

Jesus did not chicken out, that is why today we celebrate him,likewise Abraham. Their faith stood out.

If U don't have the faith in God's word to "abstain from blood" & his promises, to bring the dead back. to life, U have no right to be unduly critical of those who do.

Jehovah is the source of life, he has the sole right to determine how man should treat blood
Man can not know what God knows on this matter.

Them go dey talk like say blood transfusion na holy grail of medical treatment.

I was at a major hospital recently when 3 children were rushed into the. A& E, all of them received blood transfusion everyday, but sadly on the 4th day of their admission, they all passed away.
If them be JW,just imagine the news story headlines....

JWs are forever committed to the best Medicare available except..... what U already know, no blood transfusion. Pls visit www.Jw.org, to learn more about JWs.
Shalom.

Seun:
No, he was making a point that if talking to an apostate is against Jehovah’s will, then surely talking to Satan, who was the first apostate, is against Jehovah’s will.


Can you list some more examples of the distortion and lies that you are accusing him of putting on Nairaland?

It's obvious he doesn't agree. with JW beliefs & teachings ,no be by force. There is freedom of choice & it is his human right.

He lied that the Almighty God ,Jehovah is "blood thirsty sadistic " & JWs wish "genocide/mass murder" on others.

He has alleged on NL so many times without number, that Jehovah's witnesses is a cult. Yet he has no proof .

alBHAGDADI:
Guy, where did I deny what?

I use scripture to divide scripture to show that when Only Begotten is used, it is not talking about creation or giving birth, but you refused to accept my point. Yet, I find it funny how you believed I accepted yours.

You JW love to take scriptures out of context. You Proverbs 8:22-30 are talking about Jesus being created, yet the beginning of the chapter shows it is all about WISDOM and not Jesus. As a matter of fact, wisdom was personified as a woman in the chapter. Yet, in your fraudulent NWT bible version, you changed it to suit your theology of falsehood. Where wisdom is referred to as HER, you changed it to IT. You are afraid that if you put it as SHE, then people will discover the context of the passage that it is not about Jesus. So you changed it to IT, which is an insult to Jesus because he is not an IT neither is he a SHE.

What you don't know when you say God created wisdom is that you have successfully stated that God lacked wisdom until he brought it forth. Whereas Wisdom is one of His attributes.

Now, if you say God brought forth wisdom, then do you agree that what you are saying is that he had no wisdom before?

Isn't that insulting?

Are U confused ? Yahweh is the source of wisdom, therefore, he brought forth (created) wisdom.

Wisdom is an abstract quality ,personified in Proverbs 8.
Guy, no dey deceive yourself, in Hebrew language ,it doesn't matter if U call wisdom. "it" or she", (cure your ignorance & lies.Google is your friend, go & research on it).. But U think in English & U now deceptively apply English grammar nuances to explain the abstract concept of wisdom in PROVERBS chapter8.

Jesus Christ is "the wisdom of God" & "the wisdom from God". 1 Cor1: 24-30.

"Yahweh produced me ("created me" ,brought me forth", formed me" as the first of his works"
Jesus Christ ("the wisdom from God" was begotten by the source of wisdom, Jehovah his Father. Prov 8:22-30.

Jesus is not the ALMIGHTY God ,his Fathe. Your lies are lifeless....
Shalom .

Primesky:
The bible tells us one major characteristic of the anti Christ, and that is denying that Jesus came in the flesh.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


Jehovah's Witnesses deny the physical resurrection of Jesus from the dead. This is another radical departure from historic Christian teaching. The Watchtower Society maintains that the Lord's resurrection was purely spiritual and only appeared as physical.

Is this not another way of denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?. This and many more leaves so much questions to be answered as to who this group of people truly are and who they actually believe in.

If you become a JW and then leave them because of their false teachings, you will be literally shunned. You family that remain in the organization will not be permitted to even talk to you!

The Watchtower Society is the only source of truth on earth today and your soul will be destroyed if you refuse their organization.

The Watchtower Society and its followers are all prophets of God today and the Governing Body is directed by angels from God.

The Watchtower and Awake magazines originate with and are treated as equal to the Bible.
They deny the that God consists of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

They deny the deity of Christ (Arian view) Jesus is a created being also called Michael the archangel, and was the first and only direct creation of God.

Jesus was not the Christ (Messiah) until age 30, even though their own bible says in Luke 2:11, "because there was born to you today a savior, who is Christ the Lord."

They deny the bodily resurrection. After Jesus was buried in the tomb, Jehovah dissolved his body into gases and it disappeared forever.
Jesus rose invisibly in three days, so Jehovah had to "materialize" a fake body for him complete with fake nail prints so His disciples would believe it was really Jesus risen.

They deny the personality of the Holy Spirit (viewed by the Watchtower organization as "God's active force", similar to radio waves)
They deny man consciously survives death.

They teach the eternal punishment of the lost is annihilation.
They deny the bodily, visible return of Christ (Christ's "return" was only His "turning his attention" invisibly toward earth in 1914, and there was an invisible "rapture" of the dead members of the 144,000 in 1918.)

The cross is a pagan symbol of sex worship, and that all buildings or persons displaying the cross are likewise pagan. Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus died on a cross but a stake. However, recent "new light" in the Watchtower now admits they are not certain about the cross, but will continue to deny it anyway.
Further, the watchtower originally claimed it was a cross.
No one goes to heaven but 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses.
They teach Christ is the mediator for only the 144,000, not the average Jw.
Teach only the 144,000 must be "born again", not the average Jw.

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob etc. were to be back on earth as perfect humans in 1925. The Society built a palatial home called "Beth Sarim" for them BUT when the patriarchs failed to show up, the President of the Society moved in.

Their light gets "brighter and brighter", allowing for many changes and "about faces" on their doctrines. Yesterday's error is today's "truth". Often the "light" bounces back and forth from old to new views and back again! (Might we call this discarded truth... "black Light"?)

Blood transfusions are rejected and if a Witness receives one willingly, it results in his eternal death. However, the society allows Hemopheliacs to consume blood for medical purposes to save their life.

To salute the flag is an act of idolatry.
Participation in any civil holidays, mothers day, birthdays brings condemnation of God.

Only persons who use the true name of God, Jehovah, will have their prayers heard by God. No salvation is possible without using the name "Jehovah."

https://www.google.com.ng/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.bible.ca/Jw-Wont-Tell.htm&ved=2ahUKEwiAoKmOyprdAhVPNMAKHW4YBiIQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2fGCXMn-PJdZq2bz2x5UXI

Could such a group be truly witnesses for God or against God, especially Jesus Christ?.

Every teaching of this group in some way attacks either the person of Jesus Christ or His work of grace. Otherwise, why do they deny and make mockery of the Holy communion, even when Jesus commanded that it be done often in remembrance of Him?.

Mumu posts littered with half truths & bigotry . Anti JW virus done corrupt una brain finish.
alBAHGDADI (in another thread) saw & read the definition of "begotten" coupled with scriptures which proves beyond doubt that Christ was created by God, the guy deny am jejeli.
Una wan fry beans & drink madquinine for JW matter.

U point one finger at JWs, four others points back at U.
Pls keep it up deary.
Shalom.

Primesky:
I do not wish this people any harm, but Jehovah witness is not a Christian body. They so much oppose Jesus Christ in so many subtle ways. I wonder if all of their adherents know this. May God save their souls.

Keep quiet there ! In another thread ("my take on the Trinity... " by tomakint) U wey dey deny that Jesus confirmed that he is "the Christ, the son of the Living God".
The revelation that God gave to Simon Peter (matt 16:13-17) .

OneJ:
Primesky ,did Jesus Christ give Judas a warm embrace & tell him well done ?

Did Moses dance & clap for rebellious Korah & his gang who "rose up against Moses"? Num16:1-50. "Expel the wicked man from among you"1 Cor 5:9-13.

The only begotten is strictly for father & son / parents & child relationship. Therefore, Jesus is the son of Jehovah/ Yahweh, that is why he attained the special status of God's only begotten son .

Primesky, Abraham beget Isaac, therefore Isaac is Abraham's begotten son. Likewise,Jesus is Jehovah's begotten son, therefore Jesus is a son to his Father, Jehovah.
These are irrefutable facts.
Prove it with the holy scriptures that Jesus dined with Judas & welcomed him into the fold after Judas betrayal. Or that Moses had a cozy relationship with the rebellious gang of Korah or that Paul never said "expel the wicked man from among you"

Why do U lie against the truth?

damosky12:
The abstractness of "theotes" doesn't alter the fact that it is directly linked to God, being derived from Theos.

Sir, THEOS, means God in the Bible. It was used 1343 times in the KJV of which over 1,300 times, it is used in contexts that refer to God, the supreme Being.

The Col 2:9 context wouldn't use "theotes" (since this connotes divinity) to refer to the a god... If the Theotes were to be substituted for Theos, it will be absurd to think it would mean "god". Which of the gods?

Don't fight it. This means God, the father. The total quality of the Father's personality dwells in Christ. That's what Col 2:9 means.




I love the DEITY synonym. DEITY could refer to " gods". Yet, could refer to God. Hence, would the usage of gods or god fit in the context of that verse?




New International Version says:
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

NLT version says:
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.



New American Standard Bible says:
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,



The fullness of DEITY? Which deity? What is that deity? The Fullness (COMPLETENESS).


That's why you see the likes of NLT say "the fullness of God"




In this particular case, the reason why He had the FULLNESS (the Greek connotes perfect completeness) of God is because He is God in Humanity.

How could damosky possess the complete attributes of His father? That means something else. Don't you think he could only possess a reasonable fraction of his Father's attributes to be different from Him, if he possesses exactly all his Father's attributes, then the father and the son are not different. Think about this.




LOL. Believing Moses had to do with believing what Moses said or did not say.

You could choose to believe or not.

Jesus referred to their disbelief or unacceptance of Moses' prophesies about Jesus (Deut 18: 15,18).

Moses and the Prophets prophesied of the coming of Jesus. That is what Jesus alluded to.
Check this out...

Luke 24:25-27
[25]Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
[26]Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
[27] and beginning at Moses [/b]and all [b] the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Moses spoke about Him. If the Jews believed what Moses said, they'll definitely believe Jesus (since Moses spoke about Him).

This is actually too simple to be confused.







LOL. Kai! Why would He want them to trust in God and Him?

If He were just a mere prophet, what dies He need their trust for?

Actually, the KJV says: "you believe in God, believe in me also". Its simple what it means.... Your believing in God isn't complete except you believe in me.

John 3:16
[16]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


The man Jesus is 'God put on flesh''. You gotta believe that God came in human flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16
[16]And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 1:1-3
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2]The same was in the beginning with God.
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The man said it Himself,

John 14:9
[9]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

It is glaring, sir.

Shalom.

damosky12:
The abstractness of "theotes" doesn't alter the fact that it is directly linked to God, being derived from Theos.

Sir, THEOS, means God in the Bible. It was used 1343 times in the KJV of which over 1,300 times, it is used in contexts that refer to God, the supreme Being.

The Col 2:9 context wouldn't use "theotes" (since this connotes divinity) to refer to the a god... If the Theotes were to be substituted for Theos, it will be absurd to think it would mean "god". Which of the gods?

Don't fight it. This means God, the father. The total quality of the Father's personality dwells in Christ. That's what Col 2:9 means.




I love the DEITY synonym. DEITY could refer to " gods". Yet, could refer to God. Hence, would the usage of gods or god fit in the context of that verse?




New International Version says:
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

NLT version says:
For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.



New American Standard Bible says:
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,



The fullness of DEITY? Which deity? What is that deity? The Fullness (COMPLETENESS).


That's why you see the likes of NLT say "the fullness of God"




In this particular case, the reason why He had the FULLNESS (the Greek connotes perfect completeness) of God is because He is God in Humanity.

How could damosky possess the complete attributes of His father? That means something else. Don't you think he could only possess a reasonable fraction of his Father's attributes to be different from Him, if he possesses exactly all his Father's attributes, then the father and the son are not different. Think about this.




LOL. Believing Moses had to do with believing what Moses said or did not say.

You could choose to believe or not.

Jesus referred to their disbelief or unacceptance of Moses' prophesies about Jesus (Deut 18: 15,18).

Moses and the Prophets prophesied of the coming of Jesus. That is what Jesus alluded to.
Check this out...

Luke 24:25-27
[25]Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
[26]Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
[27] and beginning at Moses [/b]and all [b] the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Moses spoke about Him. If the Jews believed what Moses said, they'll definitely believe Jesus (since Moses spoke about Him).

This is actually too simple to be confused.







LOL. Kai! Why would He want them to trust in God and Him?

If He were just a mere prophet, what dies He need their trust for?

Actually, the KJV says: "you believe in God, believe in me also". Its simple what it means.... Your believing in God isn't complete except you believe in me.

John 3:16
[16]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


The man Jesus is 'God put on flesh''. You gotta believe that God came in human flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16
[16]And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 1:1-3
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2]The same was in the beginning with God.
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The man said it Himself,

John 14:9
[9]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

It is glaring, sir.

Shalom.

Damosky ,see as U dey lie lie because U wan defend falsehood. Haba !!

U who always insisted that context is key , now U shifted the goal post to suit your lie lie.
The abstract noun " theotes" is never used in Greek to describe or refer to an entity.
Abstract noun is different from proper noun (and U know it. Your lies can't alter the facts ).

In the context of col 2:9, theotes strictly referred to a quality. Besides, 'deity' was never viewed as a direct reference to "God" because it does not mean the Almighty God per se .


"deity is a supernatural being, like a god or goddess... the word "deity" means divine nature" (Source : freedictionary.com).

As far as Greek grammar is concerned,first & foremost, "theos" always mean "god" ,"gods" or "goddess". The inclusion of definite article. "the" changes the meaning of "theos" to 'the god', (that is the Almighty God himself).

Damosky ,no dey shift the goal post to justify your lie lie..

Besides, the word 'fullness' shows that the verse is speaking of something, a quality that someone could have just a part of. It makes no sense to talk about the fullness of something that is indivisible, since God is not divisible. . We never read about the fullness of God the Father, because by definition, God is always full of his own nature.

In addition, Christ is not God Almighty even though he has "all the fullness of God". Because Ephesians 3:19 says that Christians be " filled with all the fullness of God" (Christians "participate in the divine nature" 2peter 1:4, (we have been given the fullness in Christ ,Col 2:10) and no one believes that would make each Christian God himself unless U dey lie.

Seun:
Can you list some of the lies apostates have told about Jehovah’s witnesses? Then we can investigate them to figure out whether they are actually lies.

Seun , the NL moniker," hairyrapunzel " alleged that "according to the watchtower, Jesus was disobeying Jehovah when he talked to Satan".
Kai !!!!!!!!!

I'm not surprised that someone whose series of lies & distortion of facts on NL, puts a big question mark on his integrity, sanity & credibility, would be so dubious to concoct such a lie.
Mr Seun,pls feel free to investigate.
Shalom

TruthinAction:
Yes, Adam sinned and his sin was atoned for. So, he was free from further judgment. God clothed them with coats of skins. Where did he get the coats of skin from? Only from animals that have been killed. So God offered the first blood sacrifice to protect them.

Besides, God doesn't have to reveal all those who went to hell. He alone has the record. But we do know that all who reject the gospel of our Lord Jesus will eventually end up in hell.

Hahahahahahahahahahaaa......
So U said "yes" ! U are a liar.

On a serious note, if U really study the Bible well, U will clearly see that Adam never went to hellfire. It does not exist.
He didn't escape God punishment. Gen 2:17. 3:17-19, 5:5, Rom 6:23. 2 thess 1:7-9.

Pls go back to your previous post. Note the word (a verb) U used to describe how God dealt with wicked people....
The key word is "destroyed". pls confirm what action Christ would take against evildoers. 2 Thes 1:7-9.

Hell & death were cast into lake of fire Rev20:13-15, this means second death. (Not torture or torment in a perpetual burning furnace).
Pls recall, Adam, Sodom & Gomorrah, the flood of Noah's day, the 10 spies, the Israelites who revolted against Moses etc. They all had one thing in common, (God gave U a brain, pls think !!!!!).
What is the wages they all had?
If U know, U know.....

damosky12:
The word Godhead is the Greek word " theotes" which is also derived from the word "theos". I believe you should know what theos mean. It means God Himself.

So in Christ dwelleth the fullness (Greek word " pleroma" meaning Completion or perfection) of God...

"In Christ is God completely projected".

No wonder He said:

John 14:9
[9]...Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


If only you guys can see this...

The Greek word " theotes" is not the meaning of "Godhead"
Theotes is an abstract noun & as such refers to a quality rather than an entity.
It is improper to claim it is Godhead.
In fact, the Greek word theos means 'God,' 'gods' or 'deity' or ' deities',Beings that have (or have attributed to them ) the essential nature of a God

"The word Godhead is not good English. It means nothing in itself & conveys no idea to the reader. The Greek manuscript word "theotes" should be rendered "divinity" or ",deity".

In Colossians 2:9, "the Greek word theotes is an abstract noun for theos, the usual Greek word for God " (Greek Lexicon, Bauer,Arndt, Gingrich).
"An abstract noun is one indicating a quality, as goodness, beauty" ( Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary, International Edition).'"
In effect, Colossians 2:9, "Paul means that all the qualities of God dwelt in Christ Jesus our Lord"
Source: https://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/fbf/fulness.html

Apostle Paul never said that Jesus is God rather he had the qualities of his Father, Jehovah.
Likewise Damosky possesses the qualities of his biological Father, but Damosky & his father are different entities.
But he go wan twist am to something else.

In reference to your analogy (bold printed ) in your post , Jesus said "in fact, if you believed Moses,you would believe me"(John 5:46), Damosky , U can now see God indwelling in Moses. Therefore, Moses is God himself.

U go twist this one too?

"Trust in God,trust also in me" John 14:1.


Damosky, Jesus is not the Almighty God, Jehovah. Stop believing in falsehood concocted by man made philosophy.
Shalom.

OneJ:
Damosky, your statement. "Jesus is just the omnipotent God in human body " equates with the falsified insertion in 1 Tim 3:16 KJV
"God was manifest in the flesh...."

That is a certified forgery (not in any older Greek manuscripts of the holy scripture, except the textus receptus).
Why do U resort to pass off a lie as truth?

Compare your statement above with Matt 16:13-17. Do U spot the contradiction?

Damosky, U go reply ?

damosky12:
Smiles... You need understanding.

Jeremiah 23:24
[24]Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

Deuteronomy 4:39
[39]Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Exodus 29:45
[45]And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God.

Did you see DWELL here too?






You don't need to be rude.
The issue is your understanding of what heaven is.

Heaven, first, is not material... "Our father in heaven" does not mean a God who is confined to time and space... Haba!

The father is in heaven, yet on earth.

"father in heaven" is not to say He us confined or limited to heaven.




LOL. Isn't God a Spirit (John 4:24). What is the difference between this Holy Spirit and Him.

Really? "FROM HEAVEN"? If so, why does He require the Holy Spirit?
Isn't the Holy Spirit operating on earth?
Isn't the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God?
Isn't God a Spirit?

Here is it:
The Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit operates on earth. He is not bound by space and time. Hence, why He can indwell all believers.

God didn't give Jesus His Holy Spirit. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit. He is Holy Spirit put on flesh...

Luke described the baby Jesus as Holy thing...

Luke 1:35
[35]And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Note the Holy Ghost had to come upon and overshadow Mary for this Holy Thing to be born...

He is Holy Spirit incarnate. He is God incarnate.




He lives in heaven. He live in me too.

John 14:23
[23]Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


1 Corinthians 6:19
[19]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Note ABODE.




Simple. The Word (God) put on flesh (John 1:14). The flesh, the body is not God. It is the agency through which God lived like men among men. God is a Spirit





Matthew 20:28
[28]Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

The word LIFE there was rightly translated. Its not soul.
.It is taken from the word psuchē which means "breath of life". It was translated LIFE 40 times in the KJV.

The word is not soul. He gave His life.

The same word was used here...

John 15:13
[13]Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Same applies for Isaiah 53. soul there is taken from the word "nephesh" which originally means breath. The same word is translated LIFE over 100 times.


Psalms 16:10.
[10]For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.



He had a soul even in death...


Besides, the significance of Jesus' death had more to do with the shedding of His blood rather than the "offering of a soul."

Hebrews 10:18-19
[18]Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
[19]Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,


Hebrews 9:13-14
[13]For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[14]How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?



Not the offering of a soul o...

Barrister07 is on point

U offer your soul meaning U offered your life. That is ,U sacrificed your life or soul for a cause.
The same Greek word means life or soul.
Jesus said:
"Whoever wants to save his soul will lose it, but whoever loses his soul for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?".
Matt 16:25,26.
The soul is mortal ,not immortal. Therefore, man is a soul.
"( Jehovah /Yahweh) formed the man from the dust & breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul."
Gen 2:7(KJV )

Remove the breath of life, man is lifeless, a dead soul.

Immortal soul is a man made fallacy passed off as Christian / biblical teaching.

"The only Hebrew word traditionally translated as soul (nephesh) refers to a living, breathing conscious body,rather than to an immortal soul.
In the New Testament, the Greek word traditionally translated as soul "psyche" has substantially the same meaning as the Hebrew, with out reference to an immortal soul".
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_in_the_Bible

Oneboypikin:
You are telling me this Rubbish, Me?
I'm one 100% sure you must be terrible Judgmental self righteous individual in Real life

Go back & read your mumu post laced with vulgar ,explicitly graphic hate speech.
Are U not a "terrible Judgemental self righteous " bigot?
Pls repent.

TruthinAction:
As usual, you only look at Scriptures that seems to support your opinions and turn blind eyes to several other Scriptures that contradicts your opinions. You mean to say that their are no proofs of God punishing people even his own people in the Bible?

Jesus made it so clear that even many ministers will be rejected on judgment day.

Our Lord Jesus spoke about eternal damnation in such unmistaken terms that suggest it's a place of eternal torment.

Even the final book of the Bible reveals there is a Lake of fire which is literal. You have the option to reject the truth because of your preconceived opinions.

God is a God of love and also a God of judgment.

He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with literal fire.

He destroyed the first earth with flood that only 8 souls got saved.

He destroyed the 10 spies that brought evil reports after searching the land of Canaan.

There are countless records of God's judgment in the Bible.

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

U are well educated & u understand my question, why U dey dodge am?

My question to U: the perfect man who sinned, Adam, did God punish him in hellfire ? Why U no fit give us solid proof that Adam was tortured in perpetual fire ?
pls respond.

Shalom.

TruthinAction:
The op is a Jehovah witness. The punishment of these people called JW will be worse in the very hell they don't believe. Wicked people that see the truth clearly but choose to give their own interpretation just to confirm their perceived opinions.

Your truth in which action? U just dey yarn wetin U no know.
On this thread, come & give solid proof that God punished Adam (the perfect man who sinned) in hellfire.

Else , the other option is keep your mouth shut.

damosky12:
I'll choose to answer this too.

You have to understand that heaven is not some physical place somewhere that the father was confined to... That is why the father could animate and indwell Jesus and still somewhere else.



That's why Jesus could speak of the father as the one who lived in and acted through Him (John 14:10) and yet in heaven...

That God became a man does not mean He ceased to be God or ceased from His omnipotence...

Jesus is just the omnipotent God in human body. No confusion.

Damosky, your statement. "Jesus is just the omnipotent God in human body " equates with the falsified insertion in 1 Tim 3:16 KJV
"God was manifest in the flesh...."
That is a certified forgery(not in any older Greek manuscripts of the holy scripture).
Why do U resort to pass off a lie as truth?

Compare your statement above with Matt 16:13-17. Do U spot the contradiction?

damosky12:
Stop being unfair. I showed you a quote from Wikipedia's analysis of Ehyeh which would help us understand if "Ehyeh asher Ehyer" is a verbal construction or not...

Now, here is the quote again:

"Ehyeh is the first person form of hayah , "to be", and owing to the peculiarities of Hebrew grammar means both "I am", "I was", and "I will be" . Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am

Our discussion should be whether or not you are right and Wikipedia is wrong.

.


Let's stop going over the same thing over and over. Ehyeh refers to the Being of the subject in question. Its hard to relate it directly into English but it can aptly be seen as "I be"




If you did a bit of language examination, you'll know each language has peculiar idiosyncrasies. Hence, for the sake of translation, there is need for little alterations towards having the same meaning intended by the original language... Igbo to English for instance, it may not always be translated the way it was said, but it is aimed at producing the same meaning intended in Igbo.
Same with the issue at hand... Every major Bible translation has "I am that I am" or something close to it.




The word Godhead is the Greek word " theotes" which is also derived from the word "theos". I believe you should know what theos mean. It means God Himself.

So in Christ dwelleth the fullness (Greek word " pleroma" meaning Completion or perfection) of God...

"In Christ is God completely projected".

No wonder He said:

John 14:9
[9]...Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


If only you guys can see this...

According to your assertion copied from wikipedia , "Ehyeh is the first person form of hayah ,owing to the peculiarities of Hebrew grammar means both "I am", I was, and I will be".

In other words, the word "Ehyeh " & its cousin "hayah " , has three meanings that contradicts each other.
That is " I am" ( present tense wey no dey Hebrew language).
"I was" past tense
" I will be" (future tense).

Damosky, that amounts to intellectual fraud. Whoever postulates that view needs to see a shrink.
No scholarly Hebrew lexicon in any way linked both words "ehyeh" & "hayah" to have the same meaning

Oneboypikin:
You these Fuc.king BASTARDs called Jehovah Witnesses from Elderly to young Boys don't know anything yet
SOBs! Bleep each and every one of you Judgmental and Wicked SickFucks shall see

"Offspring of vipers,how can you speak good things when you are wicked? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks..... for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned" Matt 12:34-37.
Shalom.

Emusan:
JMAN05 OneJ

Can you answer these and support it with scripture?

because you people always say they's nothing you do that can't be found in the scripture.

Emusan, the burden of proof rests squarely on the shoulder of that SERIAL LIAR & CORRECT WAYO MAN who made those allegations. Shalom.

mercyson:
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U no wan give credit to whom it is due.

U copied this info u posted here from the "Awake! magazine (No2 2018 issue) published by Jehovah's witnesses.
It's on their official website ,jw.org.
Shalom.

LifestyleTonite:
That mean GB too will miss Paradise.

Rebellious seed of korah wey him deluded brain dey form judge U wan drink madquinine for matter wey U know say eee no concern U. Lols

damosky12:
Kai! You like dogmatic argument. EVEN your definition contradicts your stance. Note the bolded; TO BE. TO BE is quite different from "to become" in that it deals with the PRESENT state of the subject. TO BE refers to the beingness of a being.

Now if hayah is the same word that is translated TO BE and TO BECOME, is it not logical enough that it refers to the BEINGNESS of God?
I BE who I BE, I will become who I will become, etc, is logically all summed up in I AM THAT I AM. It is clearly the same thing.






A well researched Wikipedia quote might do you some good...

"’Ehyeh is the first person form of hayah , "to be", and owing to the peculiarities of Hebrew grammar means both "I am", "I was", and "I will be" . Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am .

The whole article might help you too.




"they picked up stones to stone him" (John 8:58)

They picked up stones to stone an obviously young man because He said he is older than Abraham?

There CLEARLY isn't anything blasphemous about claiming to exist before Abraham.

If at all that were blasphemous, they would have attempted stoning him earlier right when he said: "your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad" (John 8:56). Don't you think this is more blasphemous than just saying he is older than Abraham?

Give it a thought, the man must have said something more unconventional to have attracted that outrage.... His language is quite clear in the Greek, "Before Abraham, I AM". He could have said: " before Abraham, I was" or "before Abraham, I have been...". But he didn't. Hence, the perceived blasphemy from His audience...

Give this some thought. Its quite lucid.

Damosky "ehyeh asher ehyeh" is NOT "hayah" . Your "I BE who I BE (present tense) is not " I will be what / who I will be" (future tense).
That future tense is more like a trustworthy promise or future assurance. No be exactly the same thing.
For instance, President & Deputy President no be the same thing or meaning even though both of them they bear "president"
.
The Tanakh or Hebrew scrolls. never had "I am " in Exodus 3:14.
Therefore not possible for the Jews to conclude that "I am" implied that Christ made reference to himself at Exodus 3:14.

With the passage of time, most Bible translators allowed Greek thought & grammatical nuances to colour their translation of the original Hebrew language. It's like thinking in English & writing it down in French. na big blunder be that !

It's similar to Col 2:9, "deity" in the manuscript was translated as. "Godhead".
Way back in time, the Greeks worshipped numerous pantheon of gods. Today ,them dey claim say na Trinity. Lols.

alBHAGDADI:
The Trinity has been there right from the book of Genesis. When God said "Let US make man in OUR own image", who do you think he was talking to?

1) "Yahweh produced me as the first of his works... when there no oceans, I was given birth... then I was the craftsman at his side"
Prov 8:22-30.

Jesus was begotten as the first of Yahweh's creation.

2) "He was with God at the beginning"
"No one has ever seen God, but the only begotten son who is at the Father's side has made him known" John 1:18.

The son said he was at his Father's side, therefore, His Father spoke to him " Let us make man in our own image"

3) Don't come & lie that Jesus is God himself unless U wanna deceive yourself that at a period in time, men saw God & therefore, Jesus who said "no one has ever seen God" has lied.

4) "in beginning was the word and the word was toward the god and the word was a god". (source : John 1:1 wikipedia ) Many bible versions rendered it so. Don't come here & lie about it).
More importantly, don't come here & lie that the word was the god, unless U have deceived yourself that U are actually your Father who had begotten U.

5) Don't come here & twist the definition of begotten unless U wanna deceive yourself.
(U are begotten by God your creator or by a man,your father).


6) Don't come here & lie that God came in the flesh.
Because 1st Tim 3:16 authentic rendition "He appeared in the flesh" is NOT the KJV forgery that "God was manifest in the flesh"

7) Don't come here & lie that God , son & holy spirit are one because 1 John 5:7 KJV is a well falsified addition not in other Greek manuscripts older than the textus receptus (KJV was translated from the 16th century textus receptus). Matt 28:19 is a weak assumption on which to build a man made fallacy.

How is Tom,Dick & Harry one?
Shalom.

damosky12:
You and Barristter07 are getting it wrong. You, specifically, are just being uncritical. Ego in the Greek means " I". "himi" is defined by the strong concordance as First person singular PRESENT INDICATIVE . Besides, do a little research, himi was used 146 times in the Bible, 136 of those times, it is used for AM (Present tense).

Why would Jesus have chosen that particular word? Besides, if all he said is "I exist before Abraham", what is blasphemous about that so much so that his Audience attempted to kill Him?

Don't you think he must have said something blasphemous? Don't you think He must have said he is that I AM that existed before Abraham?

For a parting, king James translators couldn't have been grammatically inefficient to have chosen I AM if the conventional " I was" is what us used. It is actually clear in the Greek words used.






The tenses of the Hebrew portion of the Bible (the old testament) is easily interpreted based on context.

See this: Ehyeh is the first person form of hayah , "to be". Hence, in Hebrew language, it means all of " I am, I was, I will be". Its about the BEINGNESS of the speaker.

Hence, I AM is just the apt translation. We really have no business trying to twist this up.



Asides this, think for a while... Why would Jesus' Audience have attempted to kill Him when He said "before Abraham was, I AM".

Would the Jewish audience want to kill a man for merely saying he existed before Abraham? Wouldn't that rather provoke them to mock him than to kill him? A man in his 30s saying he is older than Abraham would never have provoked an attempt to kill him... He must have said he is the I AM (just as the KJV aptly interpreted).


John 8:58-59
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[59]. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple...


How plausible would it be to say they attempted to kill Jesus because he claims he is older than Abraham

To get things in perspective, the Jewish audience we read about would only want to kill a man for the sole reason of blasphemy or equating Himself with God (John 10:33).


It would be faulty to think Jesus merely said " he was existing before Abraham " and then to warranted such hostility. We know that doesn't add up.

The KJV got it right. He is the I AM.

.

Hahahahahahaaa!!!!!

My guy ,by fire by force U wanna make Greek word "ego himi" blend with English & retain the same meaning in Hebrew.

Hayah (verb)
Definition
1) to be ,to become, come to pass

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/ hebrew/nas/hayah.html

Contrary to your faulty claims, ehyeh asher ehyeh does not encompass "I am" ,"I was" ,"I will be".

In Hebrew, "I am" never referred to the present tense & it has no place in Hebrew language.
For instance, In English, we say "I am God", we can never say it in Hebrew.
Rather,we say:. "I God".

Present tense & future tense no be the same meaning for Greek & Hebrew.

EHYEH ASHER EHYEH (is a verbal construction& not a proper noun) literally translates as " I will be who/ what I will be".

When it is written in Hebrew, the fact that it begins with 'Aleph' (the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet) , is indicative of the future tense.



"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said," & you have seen Abraham"!
"I tell you the truth,"Jesus answered,"before Abraham was born, I am".
At this, they picked up stones to stone him,but Jesus hid himself slipping away from the temple grounds" John 8:57,58 .

His conversation with the Jews was strictly about if Jesus was older than Abraham.
Them no talk weda God na Jesus.

See why the Jews claimed it's "blasphemy"

"We are not stoning you for any of these",replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God... . Jesus answered them :"why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I SAID," I AM GOD'S SON?"

The Jews made a false allegation of blasphemy against Jesus. but Christ refuted it ( "because I said I am God's son ?" Jesus replied them).

We have heard from the horse's mouth ,so to say, "I am God's son". Not God the son.

alBHAGDADI:
My purpose is to answer the Arian challenge by giving an airtight, scriptural proof for the deity of Jesus Christ. This technique is so simple you should be able to sketch it out on a napkin from memory the next time someone knocks on your door.

Remember, you don't have to master every counter-argument to every verse thrown at you. All you need is one unequivocal textual proof to make your case. Here it is. It comes from the Gospel of John.

Most discussions of this nature focus initially on John 1:1. It says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." That's the way your Bible reads. But the Jehovah's Witness's New World Translation renders the verse this way: "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

The heated discussion that follows is almost never productive. Don't waste your time wrestling with Greek grammar neither of you understand. Just drop down two verses. Verse three says, "All things came into being by Him [the Word], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." The NWT is virtually the same: All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."

Have your visitor read the verse out loud. Then take out a napkin or a piece of scratch paper and draw a large box. Explaining that this box represents everything that exists. Run a line right through the middle of the box, dividing everything that exists into two categories. It will look something like this:

https://www.str.org/sites/str.org/files/images/article%20images/everything%20exists.png

On the left side write "all things that never came into being,"
that is, all things that exist but have never been created. Ask your friend, "What goes in that box?" If he says "God" he got the right answer. God is the only thing that exists that has never been created. God alone is eternal and uncreated. Put the word "God" in the left-hand side of your box.

Label the right side "all things that came into being," that is, all created things. Write "all created things" there. Everything in this box was created through Jesus, according to verse three. Ask your friend if he understands that. Now write "created through Jesus" outside the box and run an arrow to the right side. Your box should now look something like this:

https://www.str.org/sites/str.org/files/images/article%20images/everthingthatexists.png

Take a moment to point out to your guest how this illustration is structured. The larger box includes everything there is, was or ever will be. Each particular existent falls into one of two categories: created or not created.

According to the law of excluded middle either a thing was created or it wasn't created--there is no third option--so the categories are all-encompassing. According to the law of non-contradiction a thing can't be both created and not created, so the categories are mutually exclusive. Any particular thing has to be one or the other. It's very simple.

Next you're going to determine what category Jesus belongs in. Take a coin out of your pocket. Tell your guest this coin represents Jesus Christ. Hand him the coin and ask him to place Jesus in the category where He belongs.

The first impulse of a Jehovah's Witness, of course, is to place Jesus in the category of "all things that came into being" because that's what their theology dictates. In keeping with the teaching of Arius in the early fourth century, there was a time "when the Word was not." Jesus was the first created being and everything else was created by Jehovah through Jesus.
But John 1:3 doesn't allow that option. Look at the wording carefully. John says, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being," or in the NWT,"...and apart from him not even one thing came into existence" (emphasis mine).
John says the same thing two different ways for emphasis and clarity: everything that ever came into being owes its existence to Jesus, who caused it all to happen. If Jesus caused all created things to come into existence, then He must have existed before all created things
came into existence. Therefore, the Word could not have been created.

In other words, if Jesus created everything that has come into being, and Jesus also came into being (as they contend), then Jesus created Himself. He would have to exist as Creator before He existed as a created thing, which is absurd. Therefore, Jesus can't be placed in the square labeled, "all things that came into being."

Just a side note. Much is made of the Greek word dia , translated "by" in the first phrase, but can also be translated "through." But it makes no difference whether all things were created "by" Jesus or "through" Jesus with Jehovah as the agency (as the Witnesses suggest). The point is that in either case Jesus is existing before the creation of all things that ever came into being.

So, the coin can't be placed on the right. At this point your visitor may want to place Jesus somewhere on the paper outside the larger box. But, as we've seen, you can't do that. These categories are all-encompassing and mutually exclusive; there's no "place" outside to put Him. Everything goes on one side of the larger box or the other.

If Jesus can't be placed on the right side with created things, then He must go on the left with uncreated things, identifying Jesus as the uncreated Creator. Jesus is God.

https://www.str.org/publications/deity-of-christ-case-closed

barristter07 jozzy4 OneJ Tatime

I need your input here.

Pls consider this sentences below:

1) "The house was built through him "
2) The house was built by him"

Does both sentences mean exactly the same thing in English?. pls reply.

English are Greek are very different in very diverse ways.

"Dia autou "( means "through him" ) is right there in the Greek manuscript.

Why put "Godhead" in Col 2:9 when the manuscript says "deity"?
Is "deity" the same meaning as " Godhead?"

The popular rendition of John 1:1 in English is faulty.

Greek transliteration ( word for word to English ).

"in beginning was the word & the word was toward the god & god was the word"
.
(Source: John 1:1 wikipedia)


Greek language experts & Scholars revealed that John 1:1 & Acts 28:6, Acts 12:22 have the same Greek grammatical construction.
Compare how these verses are rendered in English & be honest to yourself .

Were the English translators of KJV very honest or biased?
No reason why. "a god " in Acts 28:6,Acts 12:22 should be dubiously changed in John 1:1, except U wanna deny the naked truth.

(Google John 1:1 wikipedia).
It gives thorough exposure to this issue. Take time to Read & digest its entire content very well before U make baseless claims about a man made fallacy called Trinity.

alBHAGDADI:
You haven't explained anything at all.

You haven't explained why Isaac is Abraham's only begotten son even when the man had Ishmael.

Before Jesus was born by Mary, he was identified as a son to come to earth. Those were prophesies of his coming. His Sonship has nothing to do with given birth in heaven. He was not created as you claim.



So because JW are so-called ardent students of the scripture, it now means you shouldn't explain why Isaac is referred to as the only begotten son?

If Isaac is not the only son of Abraham, then shouldn't that tell you that when he is referred to as the only begotten son, it shouldn't mean the only son or given birth?

Nobody here on this thread is contesting "why Isaac is Abraham's only begotten son when the man had Ismael."

U said "Before Jesus was born by Mary, he was identified as a son to come to earth".
By inference, Christ was right there in heaven when he was already known as the son of God.

Begotten ( verb)
Definition

1) The past participle of beget.

Beget (verb)
Definition
1) to father
2) to cause or create

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/begotten


alBHAGDADI, U rejected the dictionary definition of begotten, because it is the nail on the coffin of your fallacy called Trinity.

Isaac was begotten by father ,Abraham. Only begotten means he was "Abraham's seed" through whom Jehovah/ Yahweh will fulfill his promise to Abraham to bless all nations of the earth.



Jesus Christ was begotten by Jehovah/ Yahweh who created him. Colossians 1:15. Prov 8:22-30.

Jesus called himself "only begotten son" because his Father, Jehovah / Yahweh sent him to the earth as the means for mankind's redemption & salvation. John 3:16,36. 1 John 4:9-15.

Jesus Christ is the son of the Living God, Jehovah /Yahweh.
That is the revelation that his Father Yahweh disclosed to Simon Peter Matt 16:13-17.
Shalom.