₦airaland Forum

alBHAGDADI:
Are you expecting a verse to expressly say God shared his glory? I've showed you were God said He's the First and the Last. Jesus Christ also referred to himself as the First and the Last. Can you claim to be such as a human being? Yet Jesus said such. Isn't that sharing God's glory? Can you share God's glory? Yet Jesus did.


You say none of the verses say God shared his glory. Part of God's glory is being a judge. The link below has different verses which show God to be a Judge.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God,-As-Judge

If he doesn't share His glory, how come He gave judgment to be done by Jesus?

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Look at the verses below too.

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

Isn't Jesus equating himself with God?

Your colleague Tatime is saying Jesus is angel Michael. He quoted ambiguous verses to support the JW belief of Jesus being an angel. Now, let me apply the technic which you used, which is "nowhere is it written that God shared His glory". So, nowhere is it written that Jesus is Michael.

Can you now see how dumb and stupid your technic is?

" Therefore, Jehovah/Yahweh the God of Israel, declares: .... those who honour me I will honour..." 1 Samuel 2:30

"if anyone would minister to me,the Father will honour him" John 12:26.

Going by your faulty claims on this thread, because Jesus shared in God's glory therefore he is God himself.
All those whom God honours are now God himself, because all of them are equals. Yes na !!!! U wanna deny ?

damosky12:
Excellent material. Why would anyone read this and still be dishonest with the glaring and lucid picture of the unquestionable deity of Christ.

In John 1:3, Colossians 1:16,Hebrew 1:2, the Greek word. "Dia autou" which means "THROUGH HIM" is right there in the Greek manuscript.
(That is in agreement with the exact meaning conveyed in Prov 8:22-30).

In English, "By him" does not convey the exact meaning of the original language of the holy scriptures.

" The house was built through him" is NOT the same meaning as "the house was built by him.

Except U wanna be dubious & dishonest .

Barristter07:
Cc : Captivator Note this reply

Is Jesus child of the.most High or not ?






You actually showed the ignorance by insisting on a translated word that had no bearing with the original meaning . " I will be what I will be " are good translations as well, But you will never agree because you want to make noise about " I AM " as used in KJ

Let's examine the context of Exodus 3:14, 15 in KJ to see if your claims add up .

Exodus 3:14-15 King James Version (KJV)


14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. [b]



[b] Clearly, the I AM is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . damosky12, Proof your claim by telling if Jesus is the God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ?

Anybody who claims that "I am" in John 8:58 is the same. "I am" in Exodus 3:14, is indeed a LIAR ,very dubious &crooked .

In Greek "ego himi on" which translates in English as "I am" simply means "I exist"
In John 8:58, Christ simply means "before Abraham was born, I was in existence (or I exist).

But Hebrew language has no present tense. Therefore, "I am that I am" does not even exist in Hebrew language.

No Jew uses that blasphemous phrase. " I am that I am" because it is not even in the original Hebrew masoretic scroll (read in the synagogues) from which the Old Testament was translated into English.

Exodus 3:14 authentic rendition is "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" that is "I will become who/ what I will become"

The Greek "ego himi on " (John 8 :58) has NO CONNECTION with "Ehyeh asher Ehyeh" in Exodus 3:14.

It was spoken by God but written by John through the inspiration of God the Holy spirit.

Yes. He's the only begotten son of God.

Jesus was begotten not made.
Adam and Eve was made and we were begotten from Adam and Eve.
Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God.

"Jesus was begotten not made". Are U confused ?
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/begotten

Begotten (verb)
1) The past participle of beget.

Beget (verb)

1)to father
2) to cause or create

Jesus was begotten or created by Jehovah/Yahweh, his Father & God. Ephesians 1:3.
Colossians 1:13-15. Matt 16:13-17. John 20:30,31. 1 Cor 11:3.

If U don't believe, then erase the dictionary & cancel out those portions quoted above from your Bible.
The more U read & digest those verses, the clearer God's word speaks to your heart.
Shalom

alBHAGDADI:
The phrase "only begotten" doesn't mean Abraham's son with Sarah. You have no right to insert that in there. God is not the author of confusion. He knew Abraham had another son, yet He said "only begotten son". What if Abraham picked Ishmael instead of Isaac? After all Ishmael is the first son he had. It won't have bee. Abraham's fault had it been he picked Ishmael. To avoid such, God would have clearly stated that it is the son he has with Sarah He's talking about. But God knew Abraham won't make the mistake of picking Ishmael when He meant Isaac. How do I mean? He knew Abraham knew Isaac is the child God promised to him. Isaac is the child of his old age. He had Isaac when his wife was well past menopause. The child was born. miraculously. That's what makes the child so unique.

So, when God used the term only begotten son, Abraham quickly recognized it was his unique son Isaac, not the other one Ishmael.

Pls stop being clever by half.
In the Greek manuscript ( the New Testament) "only begotten" is right there in John 1: 14,18. John 3:16 & 1 John 4:9, Hebrew 11:17.
It is very much in order. Pls don't get it twisted.

JWs are ardent students of the holy scriptures.. them dey try..

Besides, with out regard to his circumstances of his birth, Isaac is the son of Abraham.
If him no be him father Abraham pikin at all, nothing special go reach Isaac hand.
Comprehende ?

.


Long in advance, while he was in heaven, before he was born on earth, Baba God already identified Jesus as his son. "For to us a child is born, for to us a son is given....." Isaiah 9:6, Prov 8:22-30. No be when Jesus come earth naim God start to dey call am Son. Even before Mary conceived & born am , the angel call am "the son of the Most High" Luke 1:31,32.

OneJ:
Isaac is the only begotten son of Abraham, likewise Jesus is God's only begotten son. God Almighty is forever above Jesus Christ ,likewise Abraham above Isaac.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon.
"mono genes"
definition.

1) Single of its kind only
( a) used only of sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents).
( b) used of Jesus Christ,denotes the only begotten son of God.

Source: https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/Greek/nas/monogenes.html

Only begotten son is strictly for father or parents/ child relationship.

In a nutshell , Jesus is the son of Jehovah/ Yahweh, the Most High God.
It is from this Father and son relationship he attained the special status of becoming God's only begotten son.


"Begotten" (verb)
1) Past participle of beget.

"Beget"
(1) To father
(2) To cause or create.

Source:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/begotten

If U wanna deceive yourself & lie to yourself,pls do so at your own risk.

alBHAGHDADI, U called me "intentionally dubious" because the Greek lexicon definition of "monogenes" & the dictionary. com definition of "begotten" done expose your lies finish.

See why your lies is built on quicksand.

First & foremost, the definitions of "begotten" & "mono genes" knock out your claims.

Would Isaac be called "only begotten" if he is not the son , in this case, of his Father, Abraham ? Definitely no !


Would Jesus Christ be called "only begotten" if he is not the son of his Father, Almighty God
? Definitely no !

U must be fathered by someone whose son U are, before the special status called "only begotten" is bestowed on U.

As the dictionary & the Greek lexicon definitions has revealed & proved beyond doubt, U are begotten either by a father or created by God.
Mono genes occurs ONLY within the context of father & son (or parents & child) relationship.

Jesus Christ is God's only begotten son because he was created.
Prov 8:22-30. Colossians 1:13-15.

That's the gospel Truth that Almighty God himself revealed to Simon Peter !
Matt 16:13-17.


The son of Lion is a Lion. Therefore, the son of the God,our Almighty Father, is a god.
Psalms 82:6. John 10:34-36.
The NWT is very correct, "the word was a god"
Shalom.

Primesky:
Pretentious love is not love at all. Why does your group excommunicate those who leave them?. You stop talking to them, they automatically become apostates, us the what love does?. There is a difference between sincere love, and fake love.

Yes, faith without work is dead, but trying to earn salvation by that work is not faith. We're saved by grace, not work as your group erroneously preach. The work we do is born out of the faith and believe we have in God!. Are the demons and fallen angels not working together?, are they no it working very hard?, are they then if God because they're working?. Have you seen the way Boko Haram work alone their members?. Do you know how Isis work among their members?, do they not also preach love and care for one another?, are they not a United group, quoting some religious book to back up their claims?. What we are saying is, the work and loving must be in line with what God commanded. How can you be claiming love of God, and you're contradicting the word of God?. How can you say you're working for God, when you deny the very nature of Jesus Christ?.

Primesky ,did Jesus Christ give Judas a warm embrace & tell him well done ?

Did Moses dance & clap for rebellious Korah & his gang who "rose up against Moses"? Num16:1-50. "Expel the wicked man from among you"1 Cor 5:9-13.

The only begotten is strictly for father & son / parents & child relationship. Therefore, Jesus is the son of Jehovah/ Yahweh, that is why he attained the special status of God's only begotten son.

alBHAGDADI:
You are a confused being. I thought after I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have accepted without doubt. I'm surprised that you accepted but turned around to show you didn't accept it.

You said Isaac is no different from the other sons Abraham had, Likewise Jesus not different from the other sons you allege God has. If you had carefully read how I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have seen that it connotes to any child that has a unique relationship with his father. That makes Jesus and Isaac far above every other child their father has. The word has nothing to do with literally giving birth. Go back and read my post again to understand.

Isaac is the only begotten son of Abraham, likewise Jesus is God's only begotten son. God Almighty is forever above Jesus Christ ,likewise Abraham above Isaac.

The NAS New Testament Greek Lexicon.
"mono genes"
definition.

1) Single of its kind only
( a) used only of sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents).
( b) used of Jesus Christ,denotes the only begotten son of God.

Source: https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/Greek/nas/monogenes.html

Only begotten son is strictly for father or parents/ child relationship.

In a nutshell , Jesus is the son of Jehovah/ Yahweh, the Most High God.
It is from this Father and son relationship he attained the special status of becoming God's only begotten son.


"Begotten" (verb)
1) Past participle of beget.

"Beget"
(1) To father
(2) To cause or create.

Source:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/begotten

If U wanna deceive yourself & lie to yourself,pls do so at your own risk.

alBHAGDADI:
Don't you get it? The fact that the word begotten was used doesn't mean it was referring to giving birth. Yes, Isaac was giving birth to by Abraham, but the word begotten was used to show his unique relationship with Abraham which Ishmael lacked. He became a begotten son because of the relationship he had with Abraham.

Jesus was not begotten by God in the sense of giving birth to, but is the begotten son of God because of the relationship he has with God.

Understand the meaning of the word begotten, then we can talk.

Half truth = LIE.

Begotten is the past participle of beget.
Beget
1). To father
2) To cause or create.

"Yahweh produced me at the beginning of his works"...
The Lord Yahweh brought me forth as the first of his works before his deeds of old... when there were no oceans, I was given birth...... when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at his side".
Prov 8:22-30.

Abraham is the father of Isaac in the same manner that Jesus called Yahweh his Father.

alBHAGDADI, pls keep lying.

Primesky:
Ah wonderful!. Well, just to let you know, I am not a pastor, nor am I a founder of any religious group. I am simply a child and servant of the most high God. It is my duty, by the help of the Holy Spirit of God, to defend the truth when it's being attacked.

What you said above is totally shocking to say the least. By inference, you're saying the Apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ gave inaccurate information about who Jesus Christ is. Numerous bible verses point to the fact that Jesus is not only the son of God, but also God. Now, with what you're saying, it then means that, everything said by the Apostles and disciples cannot be taken seriously.

But you're strongly mistaken my dear. Let's look at that passage again.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Jesus Christ, who is God the Son, or the Word of God, the second person of the trinity, stripped himself of all His glory, and pushed aside all attention from Himself when He decided to come to earth. This mindset, made Him to always refer to God the way He did, at some point however like the case of Philip, He revealed a little of who He is. But for this mindset, Jesus would have told the Jews, look, I created you, which is correct, but not once did He say that, rather He said God did, not once did He emphatically say, I am God, why?, that's what the passage in Philippians is telling you. Because after His death and resurrection, the matter was now revealed to these guys(disciples) by the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn't come to show Himself, rather, He humbled Himself, so that we by observing and following, may learn. Otherwise, how could we learn to pray to God, or serve, or humble, submit to God?. But because someone like Jesus Christ did it, even angels have no excuse, let alone us. You have to understand this. You can not have the Holy Spirit of God, and not understand this truth, except you're of a strange religious group or you're a young believer still growing, me too, I'm still growing and learning, I haven't arrived yet, but this truth I know, and I will say it.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.


The comforter is the Holy Spirit of God, here He is to testify of who Jesus Christ is, the question is, why didn't Jesus do it himself there and then while He was yet on earth, wouldn't that be better?. When Jesus came, He focused on the Father, when the Holy Spirit came, He focused on Jesus Christ. Can you see an order there?. No one speaks more of Himself. That is the perfect harmony exiting in the Godhead. God is one, manifesting himself in three persons!

Now, look at the last verse of the above, Jesus whom you said you will rather believe, said that those disciples who are with him will bear witness. The question is, witness of who and what?. By what means?. Now these disciples and apostles have testified about Jesus, and you deny and reject it because of a biased mindset born out of self belief of what the truths and reality aught to be. Brother, I think you need to consider your believe., because not accepting the totality of who Christ is, is not accepting Him at all.

U dey amuse me indeed. In John 15:26,27,U dey quote, make U talk true, did JESUS say that "the Comforter" ,the holy spirit is God?

"Godhead" is a fallacy & dubious insertion into the holy scriptures.

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" Col 2:9. "And you have been given the fullness in Christ..." Col 2:10.
U no see say we be God?

Romans1:20 "For since the creation of the world,God's invisible qualities- his eternal power & divine nature have been clearly seen"


Primesky, U see "Godhead" for there ?
Does "deity" mean Godhead? Does "divine nature" mean Godhead? Pls reply.

KJV was translated into English from a corrupted texts, the 16th century textus receptus.


Phil 2:5-7, dey talk say because U (Primesky) have the same mindset wey Christ get, U dey in the form ("form" = Greek morphé= image) of God, therefore your equality with God is not robbery (no be for yanga).

In other words, as I get the same mindset of Christ, &I dey in the image of God, my equality with God no be robbery for me to dey do yanga..

Shalom.

LifestyleTonite:
The dude is comparing those old men to Moses even after their countless failed prophesies.

Deuteronomy 18:22
King James Bible
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Yet, your Moses was so infallible that he missed the promised land.

Evil seeds of korah !
Because Moses na cult leader, him no dey listen to dissenting voices of your rebellious father, Korah & him gang.

alBHAGDADI:
Don't you see the clear difference between honoring parents and honoring Jesus? We are to honor parents the way parents are to be honored, but Jesus is honored just as God is honored. We don't honor parents as God is honored.

You go on ranting that God is a jealous God and would never share His glory. I never said Jesus is Yahweh. They are two different being plus the holy spirit all in one office of God.

Now, if Yahweh doesn't share His glory, how come Jesus is using terminologies used to address God Alone?

Who is the first and the last?


Isaiah 44:6
New International Version
"This is what the LORD says-- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the FIRST and I am the LAST; apart from me there is no God.

Revelations 1:17-18
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the FIRST and the LAST. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Can you tell us what Jesus meant when he took a title that can only be applied to God and applied it to himself? If he wasn't claiming to be God, then what was he doing?


Who is the Truth?

Psalm 31:5
Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of TRUTH.


John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the TRUTH and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

At this point, don't you find it strange that Jesus keeps applying the names of God to himself?

Does God share his glory?

Isaiah 42:7
"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else, nor share my praise with carved idols.

Clearly, no Prophet will say he will be glorified with God let alone say he had glory with God before the world was created. But that is what Jesus said.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


Look, not only do angels worship him, he also sends them on assignments. You can see that below as he comes in great glory, the type he had with the father from the beginning.

Mathew 24:30


And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

.

U "never said that Jesus is Yahweh".
Good. That settled it.

U can't be on same level (or share equal status) with a superior who elevated U to a higher rank U never had before.

Comprehend?

Your claims amounts to saying that Joseph received intoto the same measure of authority, reverence ,homage etc that king pharaoh had,just because king pharaoh elevated Joseph to a very superior position.

"God exalted him to the highest place" that every knee should bow to Jesus to the glory of God the father" Phil 2:9-11.

Even if king pharaoh declared: " I hereby put you in charge of the whole land of Egypt. " ( Gen 41: 41-43)., Joseph still know him level in the same manner that Jesus knows that you "Worship Yahweh your God & SERVE HIM ONLY" matt 4:10.
No be by force to accept this truth.
Shalom

alBHAGDADI:
Jesus said we should honor him just as we honor his Father. This means that any honor due to his Father can be directed to him too. Don't you understand that? Isn't that why God directed the angels to worship him?

There is no where it is stated that we are to honor our parents the same way we honor God or even Jesus. It simply states that we should honor our parents. This means we are to honor then the way parents are Honored. But when we honor Jesus, we are to honor him the way we honor God.

Sometimes these Trinity fallacy peddlers, una dey make me laf sotaay .....

Honour God,honour Jesus ,honour your mother and father.... na the same .pari pasu.

U can't honour God & Jesus if U fail to honour your parents.

Let's think seriously.
It's contradictory for Jehovah to give the command "Fear Jehovah/Yahweh your God, serve HIM ALONE" , (a Jealous God for that matter. Deut 6:13) & later command " Let all God's angels worship him" (Jesus).
But GOD can never make mistake. Check am na !


In Hebrews 1:6 the Greek word "Proskyneo" is right there, it's basic meaning is to prostrate yourself on the floor towards the kabiyesi or bow down to kiss the feet of someone as homage or reverence.

Proskyneo is also found at Matt14:33 ,it says Jesus apostles in the boat "bowed down before him". In the Greek Septuagint at Genesis 23:7 "Abraham rose & bowed down (proskyneo) before the people of the land,the Hittites".

in the context of Hebrews 1:1-6, we see that Christ held a subordinate position in relation to his God,his Father. Therefore, the more accurate rendition is : " God says, Let all angels bow down to him" (Jesus ) because "God exalted him.... at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven & on earth..."
Phil 2:9,10.

Jehovah ,the Jealous God does not give. anyone access to share his exclusive devotion.
Worship Jehovah God, but honour Jesus Christ,the only the mediator between God & man.

alBHAGDADI:
Is Jesus not the same person talking below? Yet you say Jesus never said this... he never said that.

JOHN 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Yes, Jesus said "honour the son ,even as you honour the father".
Also, "honour your mother and your father".
U dey worship your mama & papa?

Jesus said ".... the true worshippers will WORSHIP THE FATHER IN SPIRIT & TRUTH". Jesus did not include himself. John 4:23,24

Even the angel agreed "Worship God" Rev 22:9.
Jehovah is a very Jealous God.
Abeg , leave Jesus for him lane. Give him honour ,but worship " the God& Father of our Lord ,Jesus Christ" Ephesians 1:3
Shalom.

bingbagbo:
Jesus Christ is God Almighty

U no fit comot John 3:16 . John 20:30,31 & Matt 16:13-17 , 1 Cor 15:24-27. from your Bible ?

[quote]

Primesky:
Oh, now, we are back to referencing sites. When I do, it's fake. When you do is authentic?. Hahaha...

How do I now believe the site?. Knowing there are people who believe what you believe, and their are people who believe what I believe, and each will be saying divergent things. That's how it happened with 'The son of God' issue,. You have people who said it wasn't there, yet we have people who clearly pointed it out that it was so. So what do we now do?. The bible verses are enough for you my dear. God is not the author of confusion. My point to you is, come out of that false religion first, I know you thought to defend it with everything you have, and by whatever means possible. Your former colleagues can attest to that.

It is finished!. Whenever the matter gets to you, you call it forgery. You are the one misinterpreting the bible here. Yes, those passages exist and are true, but they do not apply in this context, neither do they apply to the person of God as they do to you and me!. If Godhead is forgery as contained in the bible, then what should we take as truth, watch tower dogma?. May God have mercy on you people.

See eh, the problem you are having, is you do not believe in man having spirit and soul dwelling in his body you can see, if only you understand this, we can make a head way. Other than this, you won't comprehend it.

Tell me, is it possible for Seven spirits, all conscious, active, alive, to live in one single human body?. The bible said this, is that one forgery too.


My father and I are one, if it means what you're saying, the jews wouldn't have tried to stone him. Jesus went on to say that, He is in the Father, and the Father is in Him, He also told Philip anyone who has seen Him, has seen the Father. Again, the bible said, in Jesus Christ dwellet the fullness of the Godhead bodily, can't you see the link, rather than trying everything wrong to disprove it.

We talked about Jesus being the son of God, you people said no, it's forgery. We now talk about Godhead, you are now say it's forgery as well. You and your colleagues are simply living the lie you've been told.

So many bible verses are given for you to read and understand, but you just pick and chose, just to defend a false religion.

You are repeating the Isaac question again, after the explanation.

How did God beget all His sons?. How did He beget Jesus Christ?. And why is Jesus Christ always 'the Son of God and not just god, or a god?. Will you also call that one fake and a forgery?. You can never understand it, nor will your religious dogma support it. Because you first of all do not believe that, the physical man you're seeing has other personalities withing him, who make up the real man. Without this, all I will be saying will be falling to the ground. Only the Spirit of God, who is also God, can reveal it to you. Will you also dispute that the Holy Spirit is God, or will you call it forgery?. The truth is open for the humble soul to see.

.

U get brain but U refused to use it. U have not answered my 4 questions.

"Godhead" was dubiously smuggled into Colossians 2:9 & Romans 1:20. In the Greek Interlinear, the actual word in there is "deity/ divine".


The Greek interlinear NEVER lies.
U can never prove it wrong. No website can prove the New Testament Greek interlinear wrong.
So stop throwing shade.


The Isaac questions. remained unanswered. I no fit know why U dey dodge am....

Is Isaac & Abraham one ? Do they share the same nature & essence? How is Isaac "only begotten son"?

U dey say "why is Jesus always the son of God & not just god or a god?" as if U done forget sey him be your God. U done dey change mouth.


Today your Jesus is the son of God, the next minute U done change Jesus to God.

It is a Fraud to quote Phillipians 2: 6,7 & dodge verse 5. If U dey honest, then quote verse 5 join.

Primesky:
Oh, now, we are back to referencing sites. When I do, it's fake. When you do is authentic?. Hahaha...

How do I now believe the site?. Knowing there are people who believe what you believe, and their are people who believe what I believe, and each will be saying divergent things. That's how it happened with 'The son of God' issue,. You have people who said it wasn't there, yet we have people who clearly pointed it out that it was so. So what do we now do?. The bible verses are enough for you my dear. God is not the author of confusion. My point to you is, come out of that false religion first, I know you thought to defend it with everything you have, and by whatever means possible. Your former colleagues can attest to that.

It is finished!. Whenever the matter gets to you, you call it forgery. You are the one misinterpreting the bible here. Yes, those passages exist and are true, but they do not apply in this context, neither do they apply to the person of God as they do to you and me!. If Godhead is forgery as contained in the bible, then what should we take as truth, watch tower dogma?. May God have mercy on you people.

See eh, the problem you are having, is you do not believe in man having spirit and soul dwelling in his body you can see, if only you understand this, we can make a head way. Other than this, you won't comprehend it.

Tell me, is it possible for Seven spirits, all conscious, active, alive, to live in one single human body?. The bible said this, is that one forgery too.


My father and I are one, if it means what you're saying, the jews wouldn't have tried to stone him. Jesus went on to say that, He is in the Father, and the Father is in Him, He also told Philip anyone who has seen Him, has seen the Father. Again, the bible said, in Jesus Christ dwellet the fullness of the Godhead bodily, can't you see the link, rather than trying everything wrong to disprove it.

We talked about Jesus being the son of God, you people said no, it's forgery. We now talk about Godhead, you are now say it's forgery as well. You and your colleagues are simply living the lie you've been told.

So many bible verses are given for you to read and understand, but you just pick and chose, just to defend a false religion.

You are repeating the Isaac question again, after the explanation.

How did God beget all His sons?. How did He beget Jesus Christ?. And why is Jesus Christ always 'the Son of God and not just god, or a god?. Will you also call that one fake and a forgery?. You can never understand it, nor will your religious dogma support it. Because you first of all do not believe that, the physical man you're seeing has other personalities withing him, who make up the real man. Without this, all I will be saying will be falling to the ground. Only the Spirit of God, who is also God, can reveal it to you. Will you also dispute that the Holy Spirit is God, or will you call it forgery?. The truth is open for the humble soul to see.

.

U get brain but U refused to use it. U have not answered my 4 questions.

"Godhead" was dubiously smuggled into Colossians 2:9 & Romans 1:20. In the Greek Interlinear, the actual word in there is "deity/ divine".


The Greek interlinear NEVER lies.
U can never prove it wrong.
Stop throwing shade.


The Isaac questions. remained unanswered. I no fit know why U dey dodge am....

Is Isaac & Abraham one ? Do they share the same nature & essence? How is Isaac "only begotten son"?

U dey say "why is Jesus always the son of God & not just god or a god?" as if U done forget sey him be your God. U done dey change mouth.


Today your Jesus is the son of God, the next minute U done change Jesus to God.

It is a Fraud to quote Phillipians 2: 6,7 & dodge verse 5. If U dey honest, then quote verse 5 join.

Primesky:
Oh, now, we are back to referencing sites. When I do, it's fake. When you do is authentic?. Hahaha...

How do I now believe the site?. Knowing there are people who believe what you believe, and their are people who believe what I believe, and each will be saying divergent things. That's how it happened with 'The son of God' issue,. You have people who said it wasn't there, yet we have people who clearly pointed it out that it was so. So what do we now do?. The bible verses are enough for you my dear. God is not the author of confusion. My point to you is, come out of that false religion first, I know you thought to defend it with everything you have, and by whatever means possible. Your former colleagues can attest to that.

It is finished!. Whenever the matter gets to you, you call it forgery. You are the one misinterpreting the bible here. Yes, those passages exist and are true, but they do not apply in this context, neither do they apply to the person of God as they do to you and me!. If Godhead is forgery as contained in the bible, then what should we take as truth, watch tower dogma?. May God have mercy on you people.

See eh, the problem you are having, is you do not believe in man having spirit and soul dwelling in his body you can see, if only you understand this, we can make a head way. Other than this, you won't comprehend it.

Tell me, is it possible for Seven spirits, all conscious, active, alive, to live in one single human body?. The bible said this, is that one forgery too.


My father and I are one, if it means what you're saying, the jews wouldn't have tried to stone him. Jesus went on to say that, He is in the Father, and the Father is in Him, He also told Philip anyone who has seen Him, has seen the Father. Again, the bible said, in Jesus Christ dwellet the fullness of the Godhead bodily, can't you see the link, rather than trying everything wrong to disprove it.

We talked about Jesus being the son of God, you people said no, it's forgery. We now talk about Godhead, you are now say it's forgery as well. You and your colleagues are simply living the lie you've been told.

So many bible verses are given for you to read and understand, but you just pick and chose, just to defend a false religion.

You are repeating the Isaac question again, after the explanation.

How did God beget all His sons?. How did He beget Jesus Christ?. And why is Jesus Christ always 'the Son of God and not just god, or a god?. Will you also call that one fake and a forgery?. You can never understand it, nor will your religious dogma support it. Because you first of all do not believe that, the physical man you're seeing has other personalities withing him, who make up the real man. Without this, all I will be saying will be falling to the ground. Only the Spirit of God, who is also God, can reveal it to you. Will you also dispute that the Holy Spirit is God, or will you call it forgery?. The truth is open for the humble soul to see.

.

U get brain but U refused to use it. U have not answered my 4 questions.

"Godhead" was dubiously smuggled into Colossians 2:9 & Romans 1:20. In the Greek Interlinear, the actual word in there is "deity/ divine".

The Greek interlinear NEVER lies.
U can never prove it wrong, but U continue to dey throw shade.

The Isaac questions. remained unanswered. I no fit know why U dey dodge am....

Is Isaac & Abraham one ? Do they share the same nature & essence? How is Isaac "only begotten son"?

U dey say "why is Jesus always the son of God & not just god or a god?" as if U done forget sey him be your God. U done dey change mouth.


Today your Jesus is the son of God, the next minute U done change Jesus to God.

It is a Fraud to quote Phillipians 2: 6,7 & dodge verse 5. If U dey honest, then quote verse 5 join.

LifestyleTonite:
On one hand, you say Daniel and David were worshiped. On the other, you say it is only God that should be worship. Doesn't that mean that those people who accepted worship have sinned against God?

Jesus said all that the father has are mine. The angels and Humans who worship God are his, therefore he deserves worship. Moreover, God even commanded the angels to worship him. The elders in heaven worshiped him.

Who is the God that. "commanded the angels to worship Jesus? " U insisted that Jesus deserves worship. Did Jesus say U should direct your worship to him? .

This is where understanding of God's word really matters. In matt 4:10, Christ commanded that worship belongs only to Jehovah his Father. Christ already ruled himself out,for worship.
Therefore, it's improper to direct your worship to anyone else aside Jehovah.

U gave the hint in your previous post but some how lost the plot. Homage, obeisance, honour, prostration, respect that is what was accorded to Jesus, David ,Daniel etc.
These words maybe synonymous with "worship" depending on the context of the passage.

For lack of a distinct word to express the act, many bible translations used the blanket word "worship" to qualify their action.

These men no be Almighty God himself whom Christ said we should worship alone.
Shalom.

LifestyleTonite:
What you are saying now is that the word virgin is used to say someone is literally a virgin and also hasn't worshiped another god. In the case if Mary, she was a virgin and didn't worship another god.

Shouldn't it also means that those 144,000 will be literal virgins who also haven't wotshiped another god? I'm surprised that you want to ignore the literal part and go with the worship part so as to include Peter in the 144,000. I'm more surprised that you ignored the Bible passage wHuch mentioned that the 144,000 are people still on earth during the tribulation, whereas Peter is dead.

Pls don't misread or misquote me.
The Church is the bride of Christ. Does it mean that all members of the Church are virgins in a physical sense.? No. Rather, Christ views them as spotless, undefiled. In the same manner that virgins are viewed as pure, spotless.
Likewise , Jehovah views the 144,000 as spotless, undefiled,pure.

Is Peter the only member of the 144,000 ? No.

Jesus said. "he who stands firm to the end will be saved"

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations,and then the end will come". matt24:13,14.

Any unfaithful one of the 144,000 would lose his place if he backslides. Therefore, standing firm is of utmost priority even during the great tribulation.

Primesky:
Hahaha... Please bro., understand what you're talking about first. We're talking about the almighty God here. You see, there goes the twisting I'm talking about. Issac is the only begotten son of who, God or Abraham?. Get your analogy right please.

The way God brought about Jesus is not the same way Abraham brought about Issac. One is the almighty God, the other is a human being. Again, all the angels and all humans, likewise all spirits, including those who have now corrupted themselves, where all brought forth from God directly, that is why they are called sons of God. But for Jesus Christ, He is called 'the Son of God', meaning, He is the full embodiment of God Himself. That is why He could say, whoever have seen me, have seen the Father.

I ask you again, if there exist a Godhead, and this God head is embodied in Jesus Christ as the scriptures said, who and what makes up that Godhead?. If it the be that the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him, can He in any way still be different, since He is carrying the fullness of the Godhead?. Please answer it.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

For your questions in 2, 3, & 4 above, I will ask you too, why did the Jews, knowing this, according to you, claim that Jesus was making Himself God?.

Secondly, with what you asked in question three, do you agree that Jesus Christ lied when He by himself, said, I and my Father are one?, the very statement that led the Jews to accuse Him of blasphemy. Please answer that as well.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

Even when Jesus said it, you're disputing it. When I say you do not yet truly know the real Jesus Christ, this is the evidence. That you will see a scripture given, and still go ahead to dispute it, all in an attempt to further a creed not supported by the bible.

What did U read in Hebrew 11:17 ? Why is Isaac called "only begotten son ?"
U never answer those my questions No1 -4. U just dey rigmarole., dey twist my post out of context.
Yes !!!!.

"Godhead" na forgery. Eee no dey Bible manuscript.
Yes !
Colossians 2:9, & Romans 1:20, in the Greek interlinear texts (word for word transliteration ) to English, the word " Godhead" does not exist in God's word.

Primesky, Is your "Godhead" meaning the same thing as "deity/ divine "? Pls ,give frank answers

https://www.biblehub.com/interlinear/Colossians/2.htm


John 10:30 My Father & I are one.

"For this reason a man will leave his Father and mother and BE UNITED to his wife and the two will become ONE flesh.
So they are no longer two, but ONE"
Matt19:5,6.

Amos 3:3 " Can two walk together unless THEY HAVE AGREED to do so"

Pls take note of those words in big letters. They show U the real meaning of Jesus words in John 10:30.
Shalom

JMAN05:
Social network is fun, it is even exciting to have good discussions with others on this board. However, we, Witnesses particularly need to be careful about apostates. Others may not have that view, but no problem. It is a snail to engage an apostate. Gods word states that with his mouth an apostate brings his neighbor to ruin. (Prov 11:9).

How it happens:

You are browsing topics on the religion section and you encounter comments, thread etc that criticise our belief, GB, or cast us in a bad light, you know the thread was formed by an apostate, but you want to go and correct the impression. You are well-meaning, but Gods word is against such move. (1cor 5:11).

We might easily be lured if we are good researchers, powerful argumentators, have thorough knowledge about our beliefs, loves the organisation etc but it is never right to discuss with an apostate.

As such, Jehovah can never back whatever we do there in any such thread. Meaning that we are endangering our faith if we ever engage them.

"Well, nothing will happen". note that Solomon may have felt the same way about pagan wives. We know the end right? Are we wiser than Solomon? If we are not backed by Jah, we are doom to fail.

" oh no, I am winning and silencing them". Even if that were true, the end does not justify the means with Jehovah. Don't you think that Asa would have said the same thing? (2chron 16:1- He formed alliance with Syria and chased Baasha away. Did he succeed? Yes, but did the method justify the means? Nope. Thru Hanaani, Jah said: verse 9.

"For the eyes of Jehovah are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him. You have acted foolishly in this matter; from now on there will be wars against you". Foolishly? Yes, even though he won.

But if someone draw us to break Jahs laws and start discussing with them, did we win or did they win? We broke Jehovah's heart, and can we then claim we did win? Nope, they won.

But it is helpful to really let an apostate know his ways are wrong by engaging him in a discussion." That might sound reasonable, but Paul could have said the same thing concerning Hymaneaous, he could have said, I will come to show him that resurrection is future. But what did he do?

1tim 1:19,20

holding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside, resulting in the shipwreck of their faith.20Hy·me·naeʹus and Alexander are among these, and I have handed them over to Satan so that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme".

Apostates have been handed over to Satan whether in nairaland or elsewhere. Let them be. If not, you will become a sharer in there sins.

But they can keep spreading falsehood about us and people will believe them. Let me prove them wrong". Paul never used that formula, did he? Alexander and Hymenaeus may have continued spreading falsehood after disfellowship, but Paul never went back to continue clearing the air as it were.

'They will say we are running away, if we do not accept the challenge', we may think, but since they have been handed over to Satan, they are sure to use his tactics. He used it on Jesus. In effect we may paraphrase it like this: if you are the son of God, accept this challenge and turn the stone to bread. Jesus never caved in just to save face. That was not God's will. "It is written..." He quoted. Can we in effect say "it is written... We must not speak or associate with an apostate? (1cor 5:11-13; 3john 1:10,11)

Know this: by not engaging them, you are doing God's will. That is what matters if you ask me. Imaging if Jesus have accepted a challenge from Satan. Will Jah be happy?

Formula I use: of course, you could get another better formula. But what I do is: if I see the Monica of someone I know is an apostate, I don't read what ever comes below that Monica, not even an " I". That way, I don't even know what they wrote, let alone be lured to reply. True, one may discuss with an apostate unknowingly. That is not a deliberate sin. It can be forgiving. But how will Jah feel if we know that someone is an apostate and we continuously engage him? Prayerfully, search, you can identify them easily in case you don't know.

How can you identify them?

They have been handed over to Satan so, they are furious against Jehovah's people(elders, GB, witnesses), they hate truth (the more you tell them the truth, the more they dig up more arguments), they often live in the past (you quote bible, they quote 1914, you use scripture to make a point, they are busy quoting dropt belief). They don't see any reason, they only see you and the organisation as enemies, just like Satan sees Jehovah as enemy. They may have other identities, pls point it out so that we can easily identify them and cease discussions with them.

Social media has its big challenges, but with Jehovah's help, we can beware of apostates!

Love and Best Wishes!

Tag: oneJ, Biblespeaks, truthislight,TATIME, capitalzero, Jozzy4, Barristter07. Tag more

One accord.

[quote author=Hairyrapunzel post=70480828]

alBHAGDADI:
I wanted to stop reading your post when you said Adam will neither be in heaven or earth, which is a silly thing to say, but then I got to the part where you said plan changed concerning the 144,000... I just gave up on you.

Adam's case is already settled jare. God's judgement, no appeal
Genesis 3:19-24. 5:5.

LifestyleTonite:
If you get possessed by an evil spirit, does that mean you were created by that spirit?

Now, you guys don't understand what the Bible means by firstborn. You think it means the first created just like a first child given birth to. Firstborn as used in Colossians stands for preeminence. If not, How come David who was his family's last born is now called firstborn by God?


Psalm 89:20 , 27
"I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born." (NASB).

As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.

"Possessed me" ,"brought me forth"", created me", " formed me", made me " etc ,these words in Prov8:22 were used in different Bible versions.
(https://www.biblestudytools.com).

The last time I checked, "possessed" is synonymous with created.

True ,"possessed" could mean control by demons or supernatural forces. But in the context of Prov 8:22, it means "created" .

Bro, If indeed, it's preeminence, how would those individuals acquire "pre eminence " ? From a higher power superior to them. True or false?

David get Father ? Jesus get Father? Who them born wey no get Father?
With sophistry ,"firstborn " could be twisted & labelled as preeminence..


But this word, "BORN" na strong akobe.
There is absolutely no way to twist its meaning.

Sorry to disappoint U, Jesus Christ was created.
Shalom.

LifestyleTonite:
Let's go with the word homage.

Now, how many of those whom you say were paid homage to were also referred to as "My Lord and My God" in the process ?

This distinguishes the worship seen in all the cases. Moreover, it isn't mentioned that Thomas worshiped Jesus. But the act and his saying speaks louder then those Daniel and David verses that say they were worshiped. For theirs, it can be said to be homage.

That's an assumption U want to hold on to, as basis to justify the Trinity fallacy. Jesus ,Daniel & David ,all of them are sons of God. If theirs is "homage" ,it should also be applied to Christ.

For the sole reason that Jesus did not ascribe worship to himself.

"For it is written: It is Jehovah your God you must worship,& it is TO HIM ALONE YOU MUST RENDER SACRED SERVICE". Matt 4:

Bro, your submission is weak.

LifestyleTonite:
Stop saying what the Bible doesn't day. The Bible not only referred to them as virgins, but also it states that they were never defiled by WOMEN. The Bible here is not talking about idol worshiping but literal women.

In your warped ideology of what virgin means biblically, you might as well tell us that the Bible, when it said Mary was a virgin, meant that she never worshiped any other god.

Pls prove it with your Bible that Mary "worshipped any other god"

If we are to go by your analogy, the Church is the bride of Christ. Therefore, all those in the Church of Christ are virgins. !

The ancient Israelites were God's special people. Their lack of faith & falling into idolatry was viewed by God as unfaithfulness to HiM, their husbandly owner.

"You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God?" James 4:4.

The personal relationship between Jehovah & His servants is akin to a marriage covenant. Because Jehovah expects exclusive devotion. As long as U are faithful to HIM, U are spotless in his eyes, that is a virgin , so to speak. But if a worshipper of Jehovah for any reason, renounces his faith in God &Jesus Christ , he is tainted, "polluted" as it were. No longer spotless ,like a virgin.

Primesky:
I pity you seriously. But just like that your former colleague, who has now found the truth, you too will find it. That is my prayer for you, because you do not know what you're doing.

U said "Adam is a spirit being " Yet at no time did Adam see God face to face. Moses is a spirit being ,yet at no time did Moses see God's face.
Primesky, U be spirit, how many times U done see Angel Gabriel & parley with am ?

U too sabi lie.

Hairyrapunzel:
In everything you do you try to discredit Jesus Christ. So as to justify the claims made by your organization that they are the only way, the truth and the life.

You still don't make any sense. Is it that you are saying that Jesus isn't the way, the truth and the life?

I don't understand.

Why are U so daft? What has "Barrister 07" said that "discredit Jesus Christ"? Ke mgbe On ye na riora IBERIBEISM ga ghotife anunwa?

sonofthunder:
And what is the usefulness of God glorifying Jesus?
Because He's older than Abraham or because He is greater? if the Jews had simply understood Jesus to be saying He was older, they would have left Him for a lunatic but He claimed to be greater than their father Abraham hence they wanted to stone Him for blasphemously equating Himself to God Almighty. How can the Word of a man grant eternal life even if sinless?
John 1 says and the Word was with God, and the Word was GOD.

The word is not God Almighty himself.
" The word (a person) was with the God (another person).
"He was with GOD Almighty in the beginning"
The word became flesh.... who came from the Father.
NO ONE HAS EVER SEEN GOD but the only begotten son who is at the Father's side,has made him known.
I have seen & I testify that this is the son of God" John 1:1,2,14,18,34.
Shalom.

Primesky:
I never dogded any question. I left it because you people are master twisters. If one gives you a passage, you will quickly twist it to defend the lie you profess. The lies of your group is too much, I opened a thread to discuss it, you all avoided it like a plague.

Every question peacefullove have asked there I have answered them before. Yet it keeps revolving along the same line. But thank God for those among you who have come out of that cult, who made it clear to me how you guys operate. That's why many Christians don't waste time arguing with you guys, the subtlety is beyond normal. If it's to convince you, I won't. I will pray God do that, because only the Holy Spirit whom you guys have rejected will help you. I will only reply you guys when I know you're misleading people here.


Oh Lord!, look at at what I'm saying again. See how you've twisted the passage you quoted above.

Why did the Jew's pick up stones?. Because Jesus said He is the Son of God. Jesus asked them, many good works I gave done, for which one do you want to stone me, and they said not for those but for calling yourself the son of God. And the bible clearly explained how they inteterpreted that. But see how you twisted it, and left out the flesh. So the naive person will think you're right. May God deliver his children from such wickedness you guys are perpetuating.


John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

10:30 I and my Father are one.

10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Follow the build up of that story above. The action of the Jews was not out of ignorance. Who else goes by the title ' the Son Of God's as if He Aline is the son of God. But we all are God's sons. It carries a higher meaning than you guys are ready to accept, and it's a shame. Stop twisting scriptures.

The only liar I can see here is the one who blantanly denies that Jesus Christ is not only the Son if God, but also God. That is the liar I can see. Because the bible said it, but he denies it. Since the bible can't lie, then they are the liars!.

I did not & will NEVER twist the holy scriptures.

U said "who else goes by the title ' the son of God' as if he alone is the son of God. But we are all God's sons.

Let's see who actually is a LIAR.

This your statement ", It carries a higher meaning than you guys are ready to accept....".
Q1) Primesky,pls prove it with your Bible.

Aside Jesus Christ ,Isaac is the only other person the holy scriptures called "only begotten son" Hebrew 11:17,.

Q2) Primesky, did Isaac share the same nature & essence as Abraham?
Q3 Is Isaac & his Father, Abraham, one?
Q4) Does Isaac share equality with Abraham ?
Pls respond.
Shalom.