₦airaland Forum

ayodele123:
@TV
   You seem to misunderstand. The carnal mind cannot discern the things of the spirit. Wisdom is the principal thing. Marriage is a mystery.

I suppose I was a little optimistic hoping you'd present your case with clear reasoning and unadulterated reference to scripture. Do people still employ this type of pathetic and pharasaical religious tactic. Shame.

ayodele123:
Love and submission flow together. A husband should love his wife and the wife should submit to her husband. Husband and wife are one flesh, not two. 1 plus 1 equals to 1 is the Bible standard in Marriage.

Who disputes this? Please adress the issue in question correctly. Does a man submit to his wife?

ayodele123:
In many marriages, the husband expects his wife to submit first before he loves her. This is absolutely wrong. What love is there if the woman must first submit before she is loved?where then is the sacrifice? Is it then not a master-servant relationship? And marriage is not a master-servant relationship. A man submitting to his wife does not imply that the man will become her slave who washes her clothes or bows at her feet in worship. Husband and wife are to submit to each other and love one another as members of one body. For instance,Some husbands will have a wrong opinion of an issue. the wife has a better idea but the man refuses to see her better point because he is the head(Ego),and will go headlong in his error and may regret it. there are husbands who will never ever listen to a wife's opinion even if hers is better and more reasonable to execute and will rather implement their own wrong opinion and come out with regrets. It has happened in many homes. Headship of the home does not imply that the husband must have his ways every time in every situation in the home. Submission to each other in the fear of the lord is a statement in Ephesians 5:21 and it applies to every body, every relationship including husbands and wives.

Why the unecessary distraction? What point are you making?
90% of the time I give leave to my wifes preference. We discuss everything. In the rare instances we cannot agree and it's a serious matter that I don't believe I should, or cannot simply please her on, as husband I assume authority as head of the home. Simple. I love and serve my wife, I don't submit to her.

Oya, butcher scriture. Ephesians 5:21 "applies to everybody and every relationship"? No it does not. Please read it again in context.

At random. Man is the head of woman, Christ is the head of man. Oya, tell me your thesis applies here. Should Christ submit to man? What about Employer/Employee? Not spiritual, not sensible.

ayodele123:
CASE CLOSED!

Not just closed, also locked. Please take down that your website.

TV

Sagamite:
You are wrong.

Marriage can be an option with firm clarity of where you stand and based on the response you get from the person that wants you to marry them.

Anecdotally, maybe over 95% of women are illogical and unpredictable and yet about only 50% of marriages in the West fail and maybe another 30% are unhappily still married.

Despite women being largely unpredictable, there can be adaptations and/or containment men can engage in that can make marriage work. As I said, you take them the way they are and do the best you can.

Hence, you are emphatically wrong in your conclusion. The human psyche is way too complex for you to be so dismissive by coming up with such simplistic conclusion that because of A and B, then marriage is no option.

I don't see how I can be wrong, as you are essentially echoing my "Find the one that shares your aspirations" theme here?
If the facts say that 95% of JAMB applicants fail, will you decide not to go to uni or determine to be amongst the 5% that do?

Having said that if the law is 100% anti and women are 100% bad, than I insist that marriage becomes unworkable and therefore not viable. I don't agree that there's no work around. On a personal note, I resolved not to marry if I couldn't find the one.

Sagamite:
Then secondly, you got your tail in a twist when you said: I for one would never have married if I felt that to be the case for both these aspects (law/women).

You have confirmed you feel that way from your last post and, if I recall correctly, you are married.

Stop using populist, illogical arguments please.

Yes, I am "blissfully" married and would not have gotten married if I hadn't found the right one. The law was not a consideration. Not illogical, not populist. Personal. Surely my position is now clear?

Sagamite:
There is "another way" you know.

Non-real men like me, can come, dictate what they want with logical clarity and ensure they get it and have a happy marriage.

Maybe your second point caters for that without you knowing, maybe it does not. That is what I call: shares (or jointly develop) your aspirations and vision for the union.

So, again, you are emphatically wrong.

You can't unilaterlly "dictate" and expect a bilaterally "happy" marriage. Faulty thinking, and predisposes the union to issues. Careful.

I've more than clarified my points. If the law is 100% bad and women 95% unmarriageable, find one of the 5%. If it's 100% bad both ways, forget it. I would've.

And no, I am not wrong sir, I am living it  .

Sagamite:
This, I have to be frank here, is ABSOLUTELY delusional.

You are going to "inure" (oyinbo, baba nla grammar) your marriage from it. How? By wishful thinking?

What guarantee do you have when it comes to it, she cannot decide to seek divorce and enforce the letter of the law. Because you "wish" she would not or because you think you know everything about her purely based on the "lets impress each other" courtship you hard?

So if there was a divorce, and she says she wants you to fund her lifestyle, what are you going to do? You will tell the Judge:

"My Lord, these laws don't apply to us because we are innocuous, inured, inoculated and innerpatticent of innopioucity of innerpurity from the law?"

Let me correct you: Faith is not air-tight and logical!

Don't use faith as an argument.

Inure in Yoruba means light. This your inure must be from NEPA!

Wake up! Marriage is already something else in the West due to the laws.

Dreaming it is not, will not stop it from being something else.

1. Inure by agreement. Not wishful thinking.
2. What gaurantees do you have about anything? Life is a risk. But I have been as dilligent as I feel I can be. And I am happy to proceed and give it my all on that basis.
3. No "Impress each other courtship" 0! Could see it when we first met, was pretty sure after 1 "date". Shared my heart, dreams and vision over a few months - also conducting due dilligence and presenting it to our families. Easy peasy. otherwise I would have walked.
4. No divorce. We took vows. I simply can't see it. Expectations were sky high, but if anything they have been exceeded. But to answer your question. I will always seek the best for our children. I won't contest a thing. All I have is already hers. If she thinks she can do better elsewhere. I will take responsibility for choosing one of the 95% and keep moving.
5. Although faith was a part of my journey, I have not called on that here, do not make it dogma for marriage and it doesn't obviate the practical aspects. Righten up yourself, find the right person, marry in the right way. Faith for me lends it a fullness, but the practicals you called for remain unchanged.

Sagamite:
See cretins coming here to argue CONFIDENTLY someone deserves $21m they never worked for and you are thinking society is still the same.

Society is already at loss.

Honestly, I am not being rude, this is utter delusional tosh except you can find a way where your "proper marriage" will not be subject to the laws of the land that guides marriage. A real, practical way, not wishful thinking or faith. Something airtight!

Secondly, you are yet to come up with what actions, apart from wishful thinking, you will take to influence and change the philosophical ecosystem that shapes people's behaviours and beliefs (understand, approach and expectations). Behaviours and beliefs that is now rampart amongst majority of delusional modern women that think being married entitles them to half and who are yet to adapt to the relationship rebalance which their financial freedom gives them.

TV, this is fanciful air.

As one of my friends was told in Lagos when he was giving consulting gimmicks for a proposal: "Oga, show me the practicals".

1. You misunderstand the essence of genuine marriage. All I have is hers, regardless of what she has or contributes.
2. Money does not underpin or singularly drive the dynamic of marriage. It's sacrificial and it's sharing.
3. Societies loss is the warping of marriage and the "jaundicing" of gender interactions as demonstrated by your position.
4. The law did not determine Whom I married or our vision for our marriage. Sod the law.
5. I am not marrying the whole of society and have no wish to alter the philosophical ecosystem. My business is with my mindset and my wifes mindset. Ensuring they are aligned.
6. I have said money does not singularly underpin or act as the main driver in proper marriage

Sir, please ditch the cynicism, the fear and the adversarial mindset. Understand that marriage is not just about you and your dictates. Be bold. A protector and providor. Find a woman who will cherish that and you, then throw down like only the Ijebu can.

I am so rooting for you (And I dey London 0! 

Best
TV

ileobatojo:
I personally "viewed" - apologies for making it sound transactional  - over 250 women before I found the one.

It was over a very long period and I didn't buy, rent, sleep over or use the facilities. ! Abeg, free me  !

Sagamite:
First of all, lets have some clarity on this before I even read the rest.

Are you saying, in your view, that these are not the case?

Please read in full.

1. is the law unbalanced - for the most part I agree. But the law is not for those that get it right, as it won't be in play.
2. are women illogical - for the most part I agree. But find one that is not and marry her.

I personally "viewed" - apologies for making it sound transactional  - over 250 women before I found the one. And all but a handful were illogical, unpredictable, immature, unprepared, lacked understanding etc. etc (ok, 1 or 2 simply didn't fancy me. They were classified as "loco"  ). Call it what you will.

However, I speak as a man. There are men out there, that are brutal, uncaring, insensitive, immature, unprepared and lack understanding etc. etc.

Neither gender can prosper withought proper marriage.

Best
TV

Sagamite,

If the laws are moronic and women illogical (i.e. unpredictable and therefore untrustworthy – you’ve said that much at least), IMO marriage simply becomes a non-option.

I for one would never have married if I felt that to be the case for both these aspects (law/women).

I recall from another thread saying - for those men that want to marry - something along the lines of the following;

1. Prepare yourself
2. Find a woman who is equally prepared and shares (or jointly develop) your aspirations and vision for the union
3. Get married.

If you can’t trust someone (and how can you if you consider their behavior illogical and unpredictable) you can’t satisfy those three rules. Marriage ceases to be an option.

If you can, then you have the issue of the law (being an ass, or at least unbalanced - and to an extent I agree here). However, the law ceases to be in effect, when you inure your marriage from it and do not require recourse to it.

Marriage as a transaction can never work or it simply becomes something else entirely.

A man can always refuse to marry a woman who is not wealthier than him. And wealthier to the extent that a breakup means that he will not lose out in the “transaction”. It still misses the point though.

To do away with or re-engineer marriage because of the potential downside if it breaks up is ultimately a loss for society as a whole.

The key is a return to “proper marriage”. The courts did not institute marriage, neither can they fix it. The problem is in the first instance, peoples understanding, approach and expectations. Fix that and the issues, pertinently the divorce one will be exceptions.

I understand the historical unbalance that has left many women at the mercy of hostile men, but I don’t see the solution being for the imbalance to be swung the other way. Apart from the fact that the prevailing air of PC’ness and other lobbies will militate against it, I don’t even believe a legal fix is possible.

The legal thingy is not even my main point. Gender wars – by whatever means – will not benefit either side or society as a whole. My thrust is for men and women to be properly raised to understand and embrace the marriage union.

Taking one aspect – divorce – of marriages that fail and focusing on the unfairness of the legislation around that will not give us a solution.

All it will do it entrench a mindset of us against them, breed increasing hostility and take us further away from regaining the true essence of marriage

Believe me, I have seen the tragedy of acrimonious and messy divorces up close and the triggering issues are never the law. Even if divorce laws were perfect, is divorce end-game?


Best
TV

Sagamite:
Believe me, root the prenup on human rights and willingness to marry and she would be in a Nursing home before the courts can resolve it. You will take it as far as the human rights courts.

It is a transaction in the West. They have made it so legislatively.

Not protecting yourself by signing a prenup would not stop it from being a transaction. It would just mean you have put your life in the hands of another (from a sex known not to be logical) and leave yourself liable to be fcked up in the TRANSACTION!

And your potential problem list is frankly ridiculous.

What has prenup got to do with number of children had?

How does lack of prenup stop a child ending up with step-parents?

Don't say "if you can not find someone who would commit to a proper marriage". You will find.

But by now you should know most women themselves don't know what they will do tomorrow. They might tell you never but then ever do it. A wise friend once told me: Never believe what a woman says, believes what she does. I act more on body language and actions of a woman than her words. And don't call that misogynist. If you are observant enough you will see that is how women themselves deal with each other. They know!

You are going to marry some 25 year old and then think you know or she knows what she would do when she is 38 years old? Someone you dated for lets say 2 years.

Please, nigga. It seems you know nothing about women. You are a "real man". I am not.

My proper marriage aspiration is: she would marry me for me, we share when we are married and we stop sharing if it does not work out and live with what we contributed.

I am not marrying cretinous goats like Kutey who would say she is used to a lifestyle and I must fund it while her lazy arse contributes nothing.

Just a point. As much as we are discussing a point around the law being the problem and/or solutoin, you do realise that your arguement submits that women are the real - and irredeemable - problem here? In which case that kind of contradicts your "aspiration" in red. And with that attitude why bother? I certainly wouldn't advise it.

ayodele123:
[color=#990000]Quote from: ayodele123 on Yesterday at 05:21:57 PM

@TV01
   You want to know why the man must also submit to his wife?
   The man is the head while the woman is the neck. right?
The head cannot turn on its own without the neck turning just as the neck cannot turn without turning the head too

Not sure what your point is here? So let me give you opportunity to explain before I disagree.
Being the head denotes "authority", being the neck doesn't. One submits to authority. Authority resides with the husband. If they submit to one another, who yeilds in the case of an impasse? Who has authority?

The head/neck union also denotes the two being one. And the mutually complimentary nature of the relationship. It is not speaking to authority as such.

ayodele123:
The man who wants real peace in his life,home and marriage must not see himself as a God ordained dictator who must compel submission from his wife. If a man wants to enjoy his wife's submission, coming voluntarily from her, he must first of all know how to attend to his wife's details. Attending to his wife's details is to place her interests above his and that is what love is all about. What is love? Love is a self-sacrificing loyal concern for the welfare of the other. This means that the welfare of the other, the wife comes first.
The husband who sees himself as a dictator is the one who strives to enforce Ephesians 5:22 ahead of Ephesians 5:25.
Sounds strange? Get more from the signature below www.maritalsuccessresource.com
This is the reason why many women are not submitting and many marriages and husbands are groaning.
Every husband is his wife's first son because he sucked her bosoms first ahead of the children born n the marriage.

All you have detailed here is what the bible commands of husbands - Love and sacrifice. It doesn't ask him to submit to his wife. Your position is simply wrong. You are conflating two seperate notions.

Nobody has said the husband should be or is asked to be a dictator. Submission to authority is given, not forced. Submission and authority are intertwined. There can't be two authorities.

Lots of scripture, but non showing where a husband should submit to his wife.

Best
TV

Sagamite:
If you want to overcome all these challenges, come and meet me. I would develop a prenup contract that would beat them piece-easy and will be arguable in any court. It really is not rocket science.

Anything you can dream up can be overuled by the courts and somethings simply cannot be legislated for or resolved via legal means. This approach will simply exacerbate the gender conflict - already so apparent here - and cannot be the best environment to raise children. Society will suffer.

Plus making marriage a legal contract means it is no longer marriage, but a transaction. It does not and cannot restore the true essence of marriage. Can one even begin to enumerate the potential problems and sorry mess this will result in.

- What's to stop a seperate contract to have kids with other men?
- What if she can't deliver on the required number of children
- Presumably if she's not a wife in the traditional sense, she can be with whomsoever she chooses? Children potentially exposed to "all sorts"
- Did you know most child abuse typically occurs where one of the parents is not the birth parent?
- I could go on and on with the "what if?". And the answer isn't more legal clauses, it's a return to proper marriage

Sagamite:
What you want is completely irrelevant in the West. Marriage IS a transactional engagement. They have made it that way and you will have to be intellectually blind not to see it. They have destroyed marriage. IT IS BUSINESS and one should treat it like serious business. Don't live in Lululand. As I have said repeatedly: Fck her concept of romance.

What the individual or couple want in marriage is everything. If one cannot find someone who will commit to their "proper marriage" aspirations, don't marry. If they can and they both commit to it, the courts and legal rulings count for nothing. At this point - and who knows for sure how things will change? - the obtuse laws and destructive institutions around marriage only apply if you let them.

I'm not blind to it, merely refuse to buy into it.

I've already stated what I feel will be the problems with treating it as or replacing it with a transactional type arrangement. The true essence of marriage is still available if that's what we choose. I wouldn't necessarily agree with the "misogynist" comment, but the aggressive mindset it inculcates is clear and is not the basis for proper marriage.

My mantra continjues to be; get the right understanding, get the right person, then get married.

Best
TV

Marriage as a proposition has changed significantly in recent times. One of the downsides for the “wealthier party” – typically men – can be serious financial loss, possibly leading to severe hardship for all but the quite well off.

With the introduction of “no-fault” divorce and laws designed to “ensure the best interest of any children” – which invariably benefits the “primary carer”, a role for the most part presumptuously awarded to the mother – men are also in danger of losing out on a significant role in raising their children.

Many on this thread are looking at “Nups” as the solution, be that pre or post. And doubtless, with a little creativity, I’m sure we could well see nups evolve into a fully-fledged (and tradable?) financial instrument. The primary driver behind this approach being to limit the financial downside of divorce.

I beg to differ. And for a whole host of reasons;

1. Even if nups were perfectly legal and enforceable, they’d still have to be agreed by the parties. What woman in this day and age would not insist on minimum and potentially scaled (if Daddy hits pay dirt at any point) financial payments for “her kids”. Is anyone left in doubt as to the position the “law” will take on this?
2. It doesn’t speak to a potentially more costly issue – emotionally and financially – of access to the children
3. It doesn’t address or challenge the true motivation behind some of the weird political and legal maneuvering. In fact, it plays right into it’s hands per 1. above
4. An even greater reason – and without touching on 4. above - it doesn’t address root issues, such as the nature, benefits and understanding of marriage. Rebalancing and reclaiming it for the key, most basic and ultimately most important societal building block it is. The family.
5. Marriage is not a business transaction

Let me start form point 5. First. Many of the discussions here typically focus on rich (celeb) type situations, which to be honest are far from the typical “garden variety” divorce.

As has been rightly pointed out, how many – if any – of the discussants here are any better than comfortably well off? And even if you are, a messy and acrimonious divorce can make road-kill of even the most comfortable lifestyle. Not to mention the physical and emotional costs. Anyone reading will have heard of the “broken men” and the “estranged and wayward children”. Very real possibilities for your ordinary Joe in the event of divorce.

To treat marriage or any part of it “transactionally” is to divorce - excuse the pun - it from its true worth and meaning and strip it of much of it’s value.

In fact, it would be more honest to treat it as a “transaction” end-to-end, which to be honest is what a lot of people do anyway. Merely adding some spiritual and social content at the front-end, then using the courts to reap the profit at close.

Honest end-game here would be a situation (and if I recall there has been one, involving a rich celeb no less) where having kids and providing for their upkeep were based on a pre-agreed legal contract. Is that really what we want?


More later if time permits, but I welcome comment on the little I’ve posted.

Best
TV

Sagamite:
Can you refuse to divorce if the other person wants to?

Don't think so. Since the advent of "no-fault" divorce, you don't have to have a reason and there is no concept of a "faultee" so to speak. So whatever the cause, whoever the initiator, the rulings are pretty much the same. You all know how the story goes.

ayodele123:
The man too must submit to his wife

Sounds like a recipe for confusion to. But please enlighten us how this would work in practice. I'm sure some would be interested to know and it would advance the discussion.

Greetings,

I’m extremely pleased to see that many have a clear understanding of submission and how it is in no way caveated in the Bible.

Especially in light of those who would come in here to declare wifely submission as “contingent” on husbandly love. I won’t deny anyone’ right to hold that position, but please don’t present it as “based on God’ word”.

The immature (unprepared or unready and essentially not truly capable of biblically prescribed love) should not marry. If you marry such a man or woman of your own free will, accept the responsibility and the consequences.

To those that have the understanding to marry properly, submission will not be an issue.

To those that come on here happy to publish the fact that they married “bad people”. Unless it was under duress, you and yours are singularly responsible for that.

Get understanding, then get married.

Regards
TV

HD how far? Hope all is well.

HOT DODO!:
I want to say a BIG THANK U to everyone for ur response. I truly need more time to work on myself. My current Gf is not the problem. I know its kind of difficult for my to open my heart to love, and i pray that someday i will get over it. i also need to ask God for forgiveness because, i felt so dirty the last time i was in a church service and just cant imagine why he still blesses my daily. Thanks once again and God bless u

Happy to hear you are taking a close look at yourself, your motivation and your current state.

I am doubly pleased that you are considering God in all this. With the greatest counsel, the finest strategies and the best will in the world, without God there are no gaurantees. With God, all things are possible.

The uncleanness, the hurt, the doubts and the pain will all be healed if you abide in Him. And He will afford the grace you need to become the man you need to become a good husband and father.

I spoke earlier about scrutinising yourself, now consider one who would make a suitable wife.

Firstly, never let beauty or physical attraction be more than a "starter for 10". What you are really after is someone with the right character. And someone with the fear of God. Physical attraction is important, but it can build if the character is right

Secondly, don't feel the need to "test" her. It's gaming in a sense and she has the same right if that is the case. It can also backfire. Rather, be honest and transparent, but pay close attention to her responses and reactions. Feel free to discuss any that you consider negative with her. Please note what I posted earlier about counsel.

Thirdly, a woman paying attention to your career is not a bad thing. In fact she'd be irresponsible to not consider the financial requirements for raising a family. Be more concerned if she is angling to know your income or asset base as opposed to how well you are doing in your career, your plans or how happy you are with it.

Fourthly, she also should be concerned about your character. And if mature should be able to communicate with you as in 2 above.

I like the advice moremi2008 gave. But regards time, please be sensitive here. For the more mature, it's key that you determine pretty early on if this is a viable proposition that could lead to marriage. A long term relationship without commitment will almost certainly force that expectation on you, even if you are undecided. You don't want to be unduly pressured. A breakup after a long time can be bitterly dissapointing and painful to both parties. Remember your 3 year situation?

As you are "readying" yourself, it may be worthwhile considering just meeting and getting to know people, instead of anything serious. I am not talking casual intimacy 0! Friendships. It will help you build and refine your understanding. And who knows, maybe when you are ready and the time is right, the right one will appear or become apparent.

All the best sir. if you have specifics you'd like to discuss, please let us know.

Best
TV

Quick shout out to wifey just confirms; we are yet to have a quarrel. Thank God that "making up" is not the key driver for passion or I'd be in pickle huh?  

Quarrelling does not have to be normalised in marriage. Even if there are daily differences in opinion or percieved conflicts.

Thanks
TV

damola1:
I think your mind is made up. But I comment simply to continue to enlighten myself and perspective to issues.

The right way, and in that vein, may I offer an opinion.

damola1:
For a fact, I am not married, but I am closer to marriage than most married people,

One either is or one isn't, even if the date is set. How can one unmarried be closer to marriage than the married? Interesting? Having said that, personally I can honestly say that my views and understanding have not changed one bit since I took my wedding vows. I therefore don't think one is necessarily qualified or disqualified based on status.

damola1:
The only set of people who have absolute right about my wealth are my parents, because all of what I am today, my business acumen, my education is directly linked to them, and I will gladly give everything I have back to them, but they never even ask.

I have to disagree here. I can't speak for all cultures or religions, but in most - and pertinently the one in view here - the spousal relationship is the "apex" human relationship. Even a "common-law" wife could be argued to have precedent over parents. The two have become one, it's no longer "your wealth", it's "your joint wealth". And in my opinion, it should not just be since vows were taken, but everything you have both accrued prior. Consider if you will the vows taken.

damola1:
In my own case, I give business free consultation advise , not the other way round, and have been doing that for so many years. I am her number one fan, whether I like it or not,,  this is a fact, introduced her to her first writing work, give her shocks for so many years to continue writing even without a single kobo coming back, closed my account to pay half of her school fees, continue to help create a balance in most part of her finances. The more I look at it, the more I see that I have given more advise, more support than she's,

In my experience also, I typically find it is the men who have been the more "stabilising" influence. but firstly, that's to be expected, as the men tend to be older and more mature. Secondly, all our submissions in this regard are anecdotal. Each instance is unique, so it would be difficult to accurately infer anything here for any one couple. It is worth noting that some spouses are actually contrary/destructive or add little value. Spousal influence is not always positive in every regard.

damola1:
This isn't a bad business deal, it's not a loss, it's a greedy woman who wants more than she deserves. She probably went to a better school, has two hands , two legs, let her go and get her own things done.

I don't agree that marriage should be treated like a business deal. Or in the notion that it's a question of "deserves" based on that premise. Does money underpin everything? Are all things to be monetised?

I am not commenting on this divorce or the couple per se, just some of the wider questions around marriage.

Thanks
TV

@ OP

1. Please don’t be misled. Tongue speaking is a spiritual gift, not an indicator of spiritual “levels” or "maturity". Don’t be intimidated by the tongues themselves or brow-beaten by posts on this thread.

2. Maturity is evidenced by bearing the fruits of the Spirit, not the gifts. Essentially a progressive Christlike nature.

3. Always test the spirit behind things. Moreso in these times. Many tongues are fake (people), or counterfeit (the enemy)

4. God is not the author of confusion. Whatever His plans, he will not bring turmoil into your home or usurp your position as head of it.

5. Continue to be the head of your home spiritually, not by forcing or demanding, but by taking the lead. Joint prayer, study etc. The gifting can be manifest here or in private time. It should not cause disruption to normal family functioning or day-to-day affairs.

6. Discuss this with your wife. No matter how real or imagined, a concern by one spouse is a concern to be addressed by the couple. Be very clear about your concerns and your conscience.

7. Pray. Take it to God and not man in the first instance. If God is the author of this he will guide. If not, re-read from 7(a).

God bless
TV

HD, welcome. 

It’s always crucial that concerns regards how, when and who to marry are raised before and not after. It would be good if you can find real-time, live people with the requisite wisdom and experience who can help guide you in this respect. In the first instance, that charge should preferably be with one’s family. In lieu of family – immediate or extended – look for others who can fill this brief.  Having varying and different levels of support is also good, but please don't broadcast it abroad. Keep it to a handful of people at most. Having said that, there are contributors here, who can proffer good advice. It’s up to you to read, understand and apply in a beneficial way. 


I like the part where you claimed to have “checked yourself”. Because as a man who desires to marry, the first and arguably the most important point of scrutiny is oneself.

What is your understanding and perception of marriage? It is certainly not an estate to be entered into lightly. Do you have an objective benchmark? Are your values and ideals based on what obtains around you, open to subjective change? or are your expectations of a higher or even divine standard? Do you understand the roles of both parties and the benefits to the couple, their children and the community of a solid and fulfilling union? 

Are you prepared? This can be viewed using a number of measures. It’s essentially an indication of your readiness. Not to say you must already be perfect in each, but you must have made fair progress or at least attained a minimum level. Think maturity (spiritually, also if you are a man of faith), think financial capability to provide. Think about your immediate circumstances, even things such as your plans and aspirations. Will they facilitate or compromise your vision (ultimately joint vision) for marriage. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but something to get you thinking.

Are you ready to embrace and commit to marriage and all it entails? Are you ready to fight if need be? For your bride before and wife after? And not necessarily in a physical sense. But to win her and to keep her. Fighting may mean stooping to conquer or successfully battling some of your own excesses. Will you commit to loving her as she ages and staying with her regardless of whether she bares you children. What  if she falls seriously ill? Not that I am alleging these things, but merely to give a sense of the commitment required.

Are you going into this "sacrificially"? Not seeking yours, but hers. Not seeking to give in order to receive, but your all? Are you set on working? Both to keep it and to make it sweeter? To put her before all others? People and things, relationships and pursuits? if you are a "believer, are you committing this to God?

So, you'd like to be a responsible husband and a father? Ask yourself, are you willing to embrace marriage and all it entails?


That was pretty generic, now a specific point - 

The first 3 year relationship. Although I hate being prescriptive, unless you can convince yourself ( or more pertinently, she can demonstrate to you) beyond all reasonable doubt that she has  had a wholesale change of heart, end it! Why?

1. She does not respect her father (or both your mothers) that sir is a red flag with sirens and outriders. Flags don't get any redder.

2. Her attitude to you is based on your "status". That is wrong for all sorts of reasons. She presents with "hypergamy".In this sense, it's a bad (typically female) trait, meaning she'll potentially trade you for someone of higher status at any point in time. You have seen deceit, wildness, disrespect to authority and Unclad greed. I doubt you will see peace or faithfulness. Enough said.


Hope this helped. More later if time permits.

Regards
TV

Lol! Hot Dodo would like advice to prevent him from falling into hot soup . Please forgive me, I don't mean to make light of your concerns, but the pun just jumped out at me.

Have no fear sir, at first glance, it looks like you are well placed. I'll hopefully be back to post a few words of advice that you may find useful.

I'm sure others will be along imminently.

Best
TV

Hmmm, back from a brutal but rewarding kettlebell session, followed by a shave and sauna. Home to garlic & pepper roasted chicken with an avocado salad. Yummy.  Let me round off my input here.

@Analytical, I was a little pre-occupied earlier, hence my taking an option on addressing what I consider to be questionable parts of your post. But I've got my post-workout pump on, so here goes.

Another thing you can do is to actually show some strength and not weakness.  Don't give in to his tantrums.

Indeed, one can show strength in humility. Humility is strength. And no, don't pander

Show him you are enjoying yourself anyway.

But she's not. She is clearly distressed - and in a delicate state - this is pretence, and ultimately wrong, no matter how noble the aim may seem.

Cook nice meals for yourself and relish eating it.  Watch your favourite program and be seen to enjoy it.

i.e. form abi?

Dress (or UnCloth) to entice him but don’t give him the chance to even come near!!

And if pretence doesn't work or forming doesn't cut it, use passion or the seeming promise of it in a stick and carrot fashion? 

Except he is playing ‘away matches’

And even if he isn't, lets hope this sorry ploy doesn't seed that particular thought.

he surely needs his wife at some point.

Let his lust force his hand? May not work if she's that far along. He may just not succumb and make her feel even worse. At best they have "make-up" passion, but if the issue is still not addressed squarely, to what avail? It's not the best start as a way to address issues and could even engender resentment. For those that have characterised him as an abuser, perhaps he will feel sex is as good as sorry?

Sing loudly and be cheerful about it.  The essence is to send a signal to him that you are not moved by his tantrums but enjoying yourself as he can see!  This is also good for your baby!

Send the "I no send" signal? Although she is torn-up inside. The physical and emotional turmoil will still be present and that will affect the baby. And this is still deceitful.

The earlier he realizes his error and makes-up the better for him.

Agreed, which is why a straightforward, concilitory, unpretensious approach to her spouse will cut to the chase much quicker, demonstrate maturity, be more likely to grab and focus his attention and effect speedy resolution.

If he doesn’t respond, then let him know you have decided to go stay with his sister till you deliver since he can’t offer you physical, emotional and psychological support.  This should speak to the man in him that he is not fulfilling his responsibilities while not demeaning you and hopefully jerk him up to wake up.

If pretence and deceit don't work, try provoking him and then escalate? Meanwhile, both her angst and the issues till remain?


I'm done here,unless Kungiya returns or something I consider germane is posted.

Apologies to as many as I could not respond to. Although I feel I have adressed all points pertaining to my advice.

Good night
TV

Analytical:
You implied somehow she has to beg or she wasn't humble enough, which I disagree with.  I think there are ways other than begging or apologizing for being slapped.

No Analytical, I implied nothing of the sort. And what I said is clear. The course of action I suggested did not include begging or apologising. I didn't even use the latter word.

The apology aspect of it is minor and will come as reconciliation is effected. It's actually parlayed more in it's playground sense here. "You were wrong, so you say sorry first" being the point? regardless of true remorse or a long-term fix?

Many are calling me out as a "typical Nigerian", which is amusing, as my claim to being Nigerian is at best tenuous. One begs for what one wants. One apologises for wrongdoing or error. Not the same thing although I appreciate your "typical naija" may conflate them.

Let me reserve the right to quibble with your response for now .

@Busy_body, hi and thanks for being objective.

Best
TV

moremi2008:
That is a lot of words for saying absolutely nothing. What about summarizing don't you understand? So your advice is for the wife to initiate dialogue with a man that won't speak to her and is sending her messages through a friend? You ignore the "probably" sitting right in the middle of a sentence to call that sentence presumptuous? You ask me to leave out references to your family and then you turn right around and refer to mine?

Bros, you are an eediot masquerading as a savant. I go hard but I have firing neurons to back it up. And you? You are all puff-puff and no substance; going on and on about nothing of any worth; full of contradictions and moral lacunae.

PS - Numbering your sentences won't make them any smarter. Try another trick next time.  

First let me apologise if you have taken offence. I said nothing derogatory about your family, merely wished you well as head of it.

Until you reconsider your "approach", point out specifics and help drive a solution here, I'll stop responding to your posts on this thread. It's not about us and some may find it distracting.


Best
TV

moremi2008:
I reserve the right to call you out and call you names if you come on here to spout criminal foolishness. Moreover, there is NOTHING to debate or discuss here. That man should not have slapped his pregnant wife and the wife should not be apologizing to anybody. Period!?

Water off a ducks back. Appreciate your leaving my family out though.

To the discussion;
1. Nowhere did I suggest he should have slapped his wife
2. Nowhere did I suggest she should apologise
3. There everything to discuss. OP asked for help "saving her marriage"
4. I am looking at and beyond the incident to give advice.

moremi2008:
So what exactly is your point, most gracious Sir? Can you make your point in one paragraph or less so there is no confusion. From what I understand from your rambling epistles, you think the wife should approach her husband conciliatorily for slapping her?!! Jesus! What did you have for breakfast this morning, Oga? You aren't making any sense! I don't care what the husband has to say about slapping his pregnant wife. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO EXCUSE for slapping your wife, period! A man that can't control himself well enough to avoid slapping his wife has no business getting married. Self-control with regards to physical violence is something we should all have mastered as teenagers!

5. My point? 1-4 above firstly
6. There is nothing wrong with her OP initiating dialogue. It's best done in a conciliatory manner .
7. An attitude may just inflame the situation further. Plus, she is distressed and rightly seeks speedy resolution
8. Porridge with mixed fruit compote? Et toi? Please don't blaspheme
9. Agreed, zero excuse for slapping your wife.  He has done so, she is his wife and she wants to keep her marriage
10. He is no longer a teenager. He has not mastered his emotions. He is married. Your point/suggestion?

moremi2008:
Why do Nigerians think physical violence is something that's out of an angry man's control? That's just a patent lie (except for special cases of pyschologically impaired individuals). Would this same husband have slapped his boss at work under any circumstance? Would he have slapped an armed policeman at a checkpoint, no matter how angry that policeman made him? The fact remains that he saw his wife as a vulnerable person he can slap without facing any adverse consequences. He is only now upset because his assumption was proved wrong. I am happy for Kungiya that she didn't allow herself to be a punching bag. If her husband cannot control himself to seek better means of dispute resolution that doesn't involve physical abuse, then that marriage is probably not worth saving.

11. I can't speak for Nigerians. I can't speak for OP' husband
12. You can't  speak for OP' husband or know what he was thinking/feeling.
13. Where you and many are going on this thread. "characterisation, presumption and declaration" "The marriage is probably not worth saving"

moremi2008:
I have younger sisters and I would give them the same advice. No sister of mine will become a punching bag for a man. Dem no born dat man well! I will cut off his balls and feed it to Bingo the dog!

From your posts, you are now de facto head of your family. I pray you have the wisdom and maturity to deal with any issues. And not based on your feelings, which is what it sounds like OP' husband did.

moremi2008:
PS - your stance on this issue appears to be purely utilitarian. Peace, love and harmony at any cost! Damn the moral implications! This is why nobody in their right mind would ever agree with you. Your premise is fundamentally flawed and unworthy of debating.

Wisdom, sound judgement and objectivity. You'll need it sir.

A first - and as far as we know only - incident in 2 years of marriage and courtship. The OP would like to save and improve her marriage. Peace, love and harmony yes, but does that sound like "At any cost" at this stage. Discard hysteria and hyperbole.

Best
TV

Analytical:
. . .

So,what is the way forward? The man should apologize to the wife not the other way round. This is where I disagree with TVo1.

Hi Analytical,

Trust you are well.

In as much as you disagree with me, could you please show from my post/s what it is you disagree with, as I have nowhere said she should apologise.

You then went on to essentially summarise what I advised in your third paragraph. I'm taking it that you read and responded to my post, not the responses to it?

I also disagree with parts of your post, but I think it best we progress on a point by point basis.

Best
TV

souldiva:
@ TV, please permit me to respond and probably clarify what we ( women) are all saying,

No problem, happy for the clarification.

souldiva:
when a man marries a woman and hits her ( when pregnant) over an argument it is very wrong!

I'm taking it you personally read my posts on this thread? I whole heartedly agree and made the point that violence is unacceptable.

souldiva:
You are painting the man like the victim and you "seem" to potray a view that the husband have little duty to sustain or keep his marriage.

OP wants to resolve things. I advised on an approach to do this and tried to give insight into what may have prompted his actions. I did not excuse him, nor did I fault her.

As an aside, It may be a helpful exercise for people to post their views/understanding of how marriage should work. I wonder based on what I read here.

The husband has not posted. My advice was directed to the spouse that posted. For the record, IMO both spouses have a 100% duty to ensure the marriage works. Again, there is nothing wrong with the wife initiating reconciliation even if she is 100% right. That's maturity. That's love.

souldiva:
The bone of contention is not really the slap ( as much as it shows his violent temper), it is the absence of remorse! He does not see a thing wrong! And yet she should stroke his ego?

People can characterise him how they will. That in itself does not bring resolution or help remediation. The issue remains, the poster is still distressed. and wants to save her marriage. If indeed taking the initiative and being conciliatory strokes his ego, is a stand-off the way forward? If one spouse is unrepentently egotistical and the other wilfully proud, what hope anyway? Her action should be for the desired outcome.

souldiva:
On the bit about violence to sisters, TV, you are a man, tell me 1 of your friends that had the habit of hitting their adult sisters who never hit their wives, It is a personality fraility and the husband need to realise he is wrong.

The bit about hitting his sisters (or in previous relationships) is unclear. I have not personally come across the situation of sibling abuse turning into spousal abuse, so can't comment. Needless to say, I wouldn't knowingly keep a spousal abuser as a friend.

Agreed it's a character flaw and needs to be fixed, I noted that and advised how she could help.

souldiva:
Am all for reconciliation and broaching of the subject humbly, but she needs to be firm and show that she will not accept such behaviors

Agreed exactly as stated. It was the thrust of my post. I stand corrected if you can show otherwise. You did read it right?

Thanks
TV

moremi2008:
Your revisionist comeback isn't really helping your case. Nobody asked her to go call her husband names or trash him. In fact, she has received the opposite advice to remain civil toward him. You are just making-up facts as you go and that is just disgraceful: evidence of a weak and disingenious mind.

This man was physically violent with his adult sister. So yes, there is some history of physical violence towards women. A man with good home-training and a stable, mature mind should know that physically slapping your wife is totally out-of-the-question. There just isn't an excuse for it. I don't care if that was the first time or the hundredth time.

@Moremi2008,

Happy to join the discussion and always willing to hear varying opinions. Why shouldn’t I learn/understand from peoples input here? But could I ask that you drop the invective and needless characterisations. It lends nothing to the discussion and is at best distracting.

I haven’t changed a word of my posts, meaning or intent on this thread.

“Remain Civil” – Are they work colleagues? Neighbours? They are husband and wife. Remaining “civil” while this issue remains unresolved is potentially worsening the situation. I clearly advised Kungiya to broach the issue in a conciliatory manner. Regardless of fault there is nothing stopping her initiating dialogue.

In all this, Hungiya’ position remains delicate and she is obviously distressed. Advice along the lines of “give him attitude” is not the best approach. They are one. They should be loving, not merely civil. The aim should be to set the scene for resolution.


“Violence towards his sister” – Kungiya said “though this is his first time hiting me, I found out later that he does that a lot (his sister).”

To his sister/s elder or younger? Or in his previous relationships? Was this in the past or till date, if it’s his sister/s? He had a known history and his sisters/family allowed him to marry her without resolving this issue, neither warning her prior or after? So what is their plan now? I won’t get carried away in condemning him or the relationship based on what we know – his wife hasn’t done that.

Thanks
TV

moremi2008:
Oga TV, you don fck up with this your thesis una! Your advise is shameless and deeply disappointing. Do you have a sister? A man slapped his pregnant wife and you're going on and on about his fragile ego and some inchoate but surely stu-pid notion of "outcomes"! This is how women get beaten to death! Maybe that's a good "outcome" for you! I hope you don't beat your own wife and then expect her to keep it to herself because "No man likes to be made to feel like a “small boy” in his own home"! Which kind of men are you referring to here? Those aren't men! Those are suckling infants that shouldn't be married to a woman in the first place! Abeg, comot jor!

@Moremi2008 hi,

@Kungiya asked for advise. I gave an opinion. Feel free to disagree
Do I have a sister? Yes I do. Your point being?

@Kungiyas plea was “Pls help me save my marriage”. I advised her based on her wanting to save and improve it.

Based on Kungiyas account It’s clear that Mr. Kungiya needs to develop as a man/husband. She can help and support him in to that end with her stated outcome of “saving her marriage” in mind. I advised based on Kungiyas account of events, we are blind to her husbands version of events.

She can embark on a course of telling him he’s “not a man”, “a suckling infant” or otherwise traduce him and see if that helps. Many are happy to help her trash her husband. To what avail? If he is all these things, the fact remains they are married and Kungiya wants to resolve things.

She can involve sundry friends and relatives and see if their belittling him telling “him off” helps improve her marriage.

She can adopt a “do me I do you” approach and see if that yields the desired fruit.

They courted for a year and have been married for about the same time incident free. There was an argument and then a slap. No prior history. Justified? No. But let’s put this in perspective and remember what Kungiya’ desired outcome is. There is no pattern here. It’s early days. Concerning yes, catastrophic, no. Lets not get hysterical.

If I or my wife ever post our marital issues, please feel free to comment. Otherwise, could I ask that you please leave my wife out of things

Thanks
TV

@ Kungiya hi,

I often say that when people embark on a course of action they should be sure of their aims and aware of the potential consequences.

You are in a marriage covenant, what long-term outcome do you desire? Many are implicitly advising you to adopt an aggressive stance. Do you really think your marriage will be happy or even survive long-term if it contains two “warring parties”?

Outcomes. Approach this as not just about you, or about your husband, but about the long-term outcome of your marriage union.

Do you know that the dynamic between you and your husband affects the development and disposition of your unborn child? Outcomes. This should be a time of great joy and expectation. Your firstborns arrival is imminent. Please don’t miss out.

Many are counseling you not to beg. Even the worldly know that when it comes to engendering harmony in relationships – let alone the apex human relationship of marriage – pride should be the last thing in view. Even TLC knew to sing “I ain’t to proud to beg”.

Am I saying beg? Not as such, what I am saying is “humble yourself”. Approach your husband (how and when is peculiar to the dynamic between you. Please consider the best way and time to broach this).

Always be conciliatory and quick to settle issues in a humble manner. It will warm his heart and help erode some of his “male inflexibility”. . Part of your commitment to each other is to help one another be  “perfect” . See how the duration and amplification of this incident is troubling you?

Again I will not want to put words into your mouth, but at the time – as soon as feasible -  of dialogue (just the two of you), let your husband know that you want to be the best wife, and you need his support. You want yours to be the best marriage, and you know the two of you together can achieve it. You may have had a similar conversation before – if so, then please revisit it.

Regards the “slap”. Let him know your feelings – how sensitive you are, how hurt etc. – and that violence has no place in your home and will be destructive. Commit to putting out violence on your side and ask him to do the same.

Violence towards one’s spouse is abhorrent. But please place this in context. Handled correctly, it could be both an isolated incident that occurred early in your marriage and a platform for a deeper understanding between you and your husband.

Now about your husband. You are wondering  why he is behaving as if he was the one that got slapped. That’s because in a way he did. He see’s himself as the head of “his” home. Your reporting him to your brother and his sister and their taking him to task over this was an “ ego slap”.

Perhaps he mistakenly thought you were reporting him to your brother when he lashed out? Wrong response, but he is hurt. His position and authority have been questioned. No man likes to be made to feel like a “small boy” in his own home. 

Please, except in extreme case always try and contain incidents between yourself and your husband to just the two of you in the first instance. Outcomes. Remember, always be your husbands staunchest and most loyal supporter.

Without detail of the original misunderstanding, or hearing your husbands record of events, I’ve tried to counsel you in a constructive way. If you are a woman of faith, please take this and any other concern you have to God in prayer. Even before coming to NL sef!

Apologies for the long post.

I wish you speedy resolution and a long and fulfilling marriage.

Best
TV

debosky:
If we agree this is so, if 50% of people are 'unready' (though they think they are ready) is it not wise for someone not 'ready' to avoid marriage instead of getting married regardless just to fulfill the so called 'societal norms'? Can we argue that some people will never be 'ready' for marriage?

If people are not ready, I would agree they should not marry. Qualifying both with “yet”. IMHO, all told marriage is probably best when one is still relatively young and vigourous. There will not be the fullness in a first marriage at a relatively late age. In as much as it’s a norm, it should be done properly and in a timely manner. Having said that, proper marriage at any age is still better than unwarranted singleness at the same age. And to be celebrated.

The onus should be on the culture/society readying people for marriage from a young age. Society has missed that. People don’t “grow ready”, they have to be made ready. Much more so in this age.

debosky:
At certain times in African culture, being monogamous would be non-conformist would it not? Would that be sufficient reason for men to insist on polygamy today? Even slavery was common in all faiths and cultures at a point in time. No one can say slavery wasn't beneficial to those that engaged in it. But would that be good enough reason to endorse it today?

The point here is that being a 'norm' is hardly sufficient justification for any practice, especially as society is continuing to evolve. What was a 'norm' may not continue to be a 'norm' years down the line.

I was very clear in stating - "well established and proven to be beneficial societal norms" – in making my point.

Slavery was detrimental to at least one party involved, is wrong and now illegal. Not the same as marriage. No downside at any level to anybody in a good marriage.

I am not arguing for polygamy (or polyandry) from any angle. Unless religiously prescribed, all things being equal, it would ultimately die out anyway. However, it is still superior to the “shack-up and sire” option.

It remains sufficiently justified until such time as;
1. A better option is found
2. It’s proven to be redundant in principle (not due to bad practice by people)

debosky:
So your argument is that in the absence of a working alternative you should force yourself into something with a 50% chance of failing which may eventually end up in divorce, leading to a later episode of 'shacking up indiscriminately'? You might as well bypass the marriage bit instead don't you think?

That is not my argument, as I don’t believe one properly prepared for marriage, who marries the right person has only a 50% chance of success. The final point of being ready is meeting the right (or right sort of) person.

Some will inevitably fail, but only a few in relative terms. Some will be widowed. There are options here, but lets keep this to a focused discussion on first time marriage for the ready to the right.


Best
TV

Hi Analytical,

long time. Thank you for your kind regards. Married and loving it. The only low point so far has been when the MC at the wedding declared the husband/wife entrance dance off a draw . What a travesty. I single handedly made a case for the wedding entry dance to become an Olympic event. At one point madam sef stopped to watch me dance. Ojoro! Here’s to marital bliss .

Topic has moved on swiftly so I can’t answer on a point by point basis, but please allow me to make some points as follows;

1. The odds of a successful marriage being 50%.
Something of a fallacy when scrutinised closely. Like many things in life, getting married without the requisite maturity, understanding, preparation and most of all commitment increases the chances of the union encountering problems. Without being spiritual about it, I would summarise as follows; the “risk” will be more or less correlated to the “readiness”

2. Societal norms
When I speak of societal norms, I didn’t mean mere protocol or etiquette, i.e.  using a soup spoon for your pudding, or delivering your “mwah, mwah” greeting right cheek left cheek instead of left then right. Not even secular laws. Norms.

Well established and proven to be beneficial societal norms are not things one just “opts” out of. Not when they found in all faiths and all cultures, with at best minor exceptions or variations. Not adhering to them endangers society itself, that is why society brings pressure to bear on non-conformists.

And of all norms, marriage is the one. Marriage between a man and a women is meant for everyone except for a few outlying cases and with good reason at that. Will some breakdown? Inevitably, but they should be rare exceptions. And I don’t mean “suffering-in-silence”, or “ just managing” marriages! I mean happy, mutually fulfilling and rewarding unions.

As for the opt out option, pray tell what should it be replaced with? What is a sensible alternative? All I’ve heard is a messy sounding, unstructured, uncommitted, “shag, shack-up and sire indiscriminately” type arrangement. In the first instance I won’t dignify that by exploring it, although I  would be happy to listen to a well worded defense of it? And how this or other alternatives would work.

Additionally, reading through I would question the readiness of many of the protagonists on this thread for the following reasons;

1. A not very clear understanding of what the marriage convent truly means and not actually being able or willing to articulate their understanding of it

2. A blind  willingness to only see and harp on about the problems, pitfalls and potential loss to them

3. It’s crystal clear that in a sense, many don’t even realize that marriage is not first – or at least just – about them. It’s mere than personal fulfillment and actualizing personal desire, although it will encompass those things.

I am also slightly bemused that instead of humbly asking – or just being plain inquisitive – and asking those who have happy/successful marriages, what they feel are the keys and perhaps using these to crystallise their understanding and set themselves high expectations,  it’s so much gainsaying, bitter ranting, unhealthy stereotyping and gender politics. It’s really quite sad.

Sorry if I sound somewhat strident, but we are not discussing the relative merits of wholemeal over granary here.

Apologies for those who don’t like ‘tori, but - except for good reason - y’all will marry and marry well .

Best
TV

Sagamite:
Don't deceive yourself on that. Some will, no matter how hard you try.

True. So, will you lose hope and give up because the authorities may be hostile toward marriage or because some some women will turn aggressor once in it?

Please guys don't let cynicism take a hold. If you don't have faith, have optimism. Your mission (there is for the most part, no more quick chase or easy hunt ) is too find someone with whom you have shared aspirations towards marriage and/or are able to create your own mutually agreeable construct. I personally placed my trust in God, and we have what would be termed a"traditional" marriage. However, I am not being prescriptive.

Sagamite:
Provide info where you went to find a good one o. Maybe you can resurrect hope.

And whilst not being prescriptive, there are many strategies. As prey becomes scarce, hunting techniques evolve  . I didn't learn the easy way, or the hard way. I learnt the painful way.  They are all around you. On the train, in the supermarket and more obvious places. There is much at stake. Be bold. As for hope,that's between you and your God. (I'm pondering how I may be able to "facilitate". But I'm not there yet. Please don't wait for me 0! )

Sagamite:
Hell No!

I am quite capable of telling family to go to hell if needs be. I do critical things like this with my head, not my heart.

People can perfectly leave happily without being married. No family can push me to marry, only a woman worth it can.

Yes 0!
You can get away with it for a time, enjoy it for a while, even rationalise it for a period. But at some point it will hit you like a ton of bricks. An empty old age beckons and lonliness will stare you hard in the face. The family and societal pressure will turn to pity and the outlook will be bleak. Believe me, the kind of woman you think "worth it" will in all likelihood be out of reach and in some respects you'll probably be a shadow of the man you were.

Please don't make this a question of brinkmanship or forming guyman. Don't let bad experiences make you bitter. We tend to act from where we were and talk from where we are. What we need to do is work towards where we want to be. I beg you guys, humble yourselves a little, there's all to play for.

Look around you. There are lots of unmarried women from our demographic in the 40'odd age bracket. Lamenting their situations. Angry and hurting. Wondering why they rejected those "ok" men. Trying to understand why they weren't more approachable and humble back then. Regretting not heeding the familial and societal pressure. Some are being counselled by friends and family to "just have a kid", before it'ls too late. And maybe the man will stay? It hurts to see and is frustrating that there's little one can do. Rest assured, there is a male equivalent situation. Where do you want to be?


All the best.
TV

@Men in the house,

Lots of very valid concerns about modern day marriage. The "re-engineering" , especially in the  West means it's not necessarily the simple and transparent "value proposition it once was.

Having said that, once you meet a women who closely or totally embodies what you aspire to in marriage, you'll realise that key to marriage is the people involved. Once in agreement, large portions of this new-age construct won't apply to you and you can inure your marriage against it.

Marriage is still the norm and no matter how we look at it, I don't believe there's a viable alternative that's in the long term best interests of men, their offspring and community as a whole.

I know how difficult it is to find a spouse - it took me years. The amount of baggage some people seem to be carrying. Literally crushed and rendered unmarriagable by it. But their desire and aspiration remains. Divorces waiting to happen.

The subplot of my wanting a Naija girl but typically finding them the most singularly ungracious bunch, made me wonder out loud. Na curse? But after travelling far and wide I finally found one. Ultimately you just want the one! I said typically, not all.

The travails of my search would make a 3quel blockbuster or 7 part book. But my faith and hope did not waver and today I can honestly say "uxory is me". My marriage though relatively new is not like the stereotypes I feared or plagued by those things I was warned about. Although based along traditional lines, we've constructed our own haven. You don't have to re-work a bad script.

When the "Tell us about your marriage thread" was started, I had a longing deep inside of me and was vexed as at the time it was nowhere in sight for me. Now I'm just waiting for wifeys buy-in before I spam that thread out .

We can rationalise all we please. Except for a few very good reasons, we simply have to marry or we have stepped outside the norm. Either the family and societal pressure will finally wear you down, or it will naturally dawn upon you. Whichever it is, do not, I repeat, do not act in haste. But neither should you leave it too late.

Get understanding, get ready, get married.

I wish everyone that's still searching heartfelt success.

Best
TV

OmoPastor:
@ TV01do you care to know? what have you done to know? if you do not know, then you have no reason talking it down.

I have clearly asked that you share with the board. Rather than a proclamation of what you are going to do, whilst claiming the revelation behind it is personal, please share - and in a very specific manner - the revelation. I am not talking it down. Who can withstand truth?

OmoPastor:
go through this thread again, i believe you just jumped to reply without reading all my posts here today.

I have re-read, just to be sure. My points/questions remain unchanged.

plaetton:
Omo pastor, Joeagbaje and others have repeatedly tried to impress upon this forum that there exist[b] big difference between giving to the poor or needy and giving to god.[/b]. I beg any of them to kindly elaborate on this.

A response to the above would also be revelatory to many here

Thanks
TV