₦airaland Forum

Image123:
Christians need to gather together every once in a while. Whether you call the venue church, or hall, or centre, or palace is your individual headache

Reading the post, i think yommy is talking about the true identity & ownership of the ‘church’ here. Is it the building or the people? I think that’s the message here and not whether we should gather together at some location. It does appear that a good number of people see the building as the ‘church’.

[quote author=Vivian. SA link=topic=577773.msg7841641#msg7841641 date=1299192840]Which makes to come back to the question,on what is the main objective on being on Yookos.Except the fact that one needs to be on it if they are CE members because its a ministry social network platform.Besides that, what response are the developers looking for from the broader society outside CE when they developed the application? Can the CE suggest reasons as this will be of great help.
Thank You.[/quote]I m not CE, but i will give you my reason It's goes beyond the need for networking among CE members. The idea is to bring CE to the broader society or viewed from another perspective, to bring the broader society to CE It's a brand awareness thing you can call it marketing

ikejiani:
Ok. How did Jesus expect us to spread the gospel. How did Jesus get enough money to spread his gospel during his day. Read Luke 8:2-3 ' and certain women, which has been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, and Joanna the wife of chuza herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance'  so Jesus had givers that supported his ministry financially. The main givers were mentioned and also many others. How did they respond if not that Jesus must have taught them. This were members of Jesus congregation .

Did Jesus ask for money? Did Jesus collect tithe? Did Jesus preach that money is required to spread the gospel? Did Jesus preach that one must donate his money to the 'church' (as a registered entity) to be blessed? 

Learn to make true Christians out of the congregation and you will spread the gospel at little or no cost.

ikejiani:
There is a lot of dirty programmes on television. Inbelivers can never put Christian programs on air for us. Paying for airtime on television costs a lot of money and we are to do something about spreading the gospel and bringing into peoples homes that they might hear it free of charge. But it takes a lot of money to do so.

You guys spend big money chasing small profit, that’s your problem. The pastor already have difficulty making good Christians out of the crowd that sits directly in front of him every Sunday (and sometimes on weekdays), what makes you think he will achieve more by splashing big money on media?

ikejiani:
So any Christian that doesn't want to be wealthy is selfish.

You mean Apostle Paul was selfish

ikejiani:
If you don't want to be wealthy. First you are not sincere for everyone wants to do well in life. Do you work? Don't you want to have a pay raise at work. Secondly we need to be wealthy to help suffering masses around us. The poor cannot help the poor. It is only the rich that can help the poor.

Everybody want to be rich, but you don’t bribe God to achieve this.

ikejiani:
People have real problems. When someone is demon possessed, you cast out the demon from him. When someone is sick with an incurable disease and if there is a God in heaven. God should be able to heal him. So what do you do when someone needs a financial miracle .you don' tell the person only to live right and think about heaven when there are real bills to pay here on earth.

And you (or the church) need to collect money before this can be achieved?

ikejiani:
So what do you do when someone needs a financial miracle .you don' tell the person only to live right and think about heaven when there are real bills to pay here on earth.

So what do you tell him? To go steal or give God egunje so his prayers will be answered? Bribing the Almighty will not yield the desired result.

ikejiani:
The word of God should be able to minister to the person and provide the miracles he needs.

How do you achieve this 

ogajim:
Who told you my reason for giving my life to Christ is to be wealthy? Some of us don't need "wealth" or the promise of it to serve our Lord and savior. Giving in order to receive is investment banking not worship.

I am not sure they ever thought people would give their life to Christ for free. In their book, Christ paid the initial sacrifice on the cross and must continue to pay to buy the loyalty/cooperation of Christians. Don’t blame him though, i blame the politicians that made our economy what it is today. A lot of people go to ‘church’ due to life’s challenges and they are vulnerable to ‘pastoral exploitation’.

Pastor AIO:
And here is a perfect example of a product of fake christianity. I'm so glad this guy posted. Now check out his words in the bolded part with is a commonly taught thing in these dens of mendacious nonsense. Now compare them to the words of Jesus in the first great commission.

I want to believe he is a pastor.

ikejiani:
It is Evident that those that don't pay Tithe are those that love money.

And where is the evidence?

ikejiani:
Why do you think Christians should pay their tithe?.

Good question, why really do you think people pay tithe? Do you think it’s because they want to spread the gospel? Or do you think it’s because they want to be the next Bill Gates or Warren Buffet?

ikejiani:
The gospel is free but not cheap.

It was never Christ’s intention that the gospel be expensive, you made it so. Apostle Paul spent very little to spread the gospel. His letters are read by billions of people today in different part of the world. How do you think he achieved it? Do you think Apostle Paul was collecting cash (fraudulently or legitimately) to spread the gospel you read today? Read the bible to discover his approach, adopt it and you might be able to take it further at very little cost.

ikejiani:
It requires a lot of money to preach the gospel.

So you must hoodwink the congregation into supporting/funding your so called gospel. You don’t preach the gospel, instead you teach people to be greedy, selfish, to lust for material wealth e.t.c. If you preach the true gospel, you won’t need tithe to spread it. You know why? People would give (contribute) in excess of what you collect from tithe to meet any need.

ikejiani:
Those that pay tithe are being mightily blessed of God.

And those that don’t pay tithe are also mightily blessed of God. So what exactly are you saying?

Pastor AIO:
And of course the climax of the whole affair is donation time. That is when the music really starts swinging. Tithing time, to the beat everybody!

Yes oooo

Snowwy:
Pastor AIO, its seems Kunle and you differ on the point of tithe as he has cleared my misconception. He says tithing is ok as long as its not compulsory or mandatory and any pastor (pray tell us which church this 'pastor' is as Kunle is yet to mention a church yet)who encourages his members to give a certain percentage (it could be 10% or even 90%) of their income is in order.

There is nothing wrong in you giving a percentage of your income to the church (as a registered entity), but the decision has to be yours. Pastors should not be the one to determine the percentage you give. I would prefer pastors encouraging members to give without specifying the percentage amount.

crossman9:
Written By United Against Christ Embassy
CHRIST EMBASSY IS the most Evil Church in the World

Haba! why na It cant be that bad

Pastor AIO:
Okay, but just to put me on track, pray tell, What is the purpose of this thread?

1. To market CEC business without interference
2. To monitor the activities of CEC marketing team e.g. how many customers did each marketer bring in last week? (win rate).

Joagbaje:
The only reason tithing wasn't mentioned was because it wasn't an issue with them, it was part of their lives. and God never spoke against it at any time.

Na wa oh Jo don take style turn church members to marketers. I hope it's on commission basis

^^^^ Interesting

Joagbaje:
Jesus even had to minister to a gentile man contrary to his desire, just because the man won his Favour on the ground that he build a house for the worship of God.

Joagbaje:
If it's building ; Jesus ministered to a centurion because he built a place for worship.

I still don’t agree with you on this. Your statement above is misleading. You give the impression here an unbeliever can win God’s favor based on works alone. e.g. If an unbeliever builds a church for CEC, God will respond to his every request because God loves church builders. I don’t think we should ignore his motivation for building the synagogue. The man also displayed proof of his belief in Christ when he sent his friends to stop Christ from coming into his house.

mabell:
what does the poster even want sef?
is the issue that churches should not be built or just churches should be built but they should be small

With the above, I believe you are the only cec rep. that has made any attempt to understand frosbel’s post Joagbaje’s reaction is expected, we know he will resist any message that will have an adverse impact on his cash inflow.

Azibalua:
Be truthful zikky
It pays to be honest

What are you trying to say here Are you saying zikkyy is not truthful Do you have evidence to support this wicked accusation

KunleOshob:
^^^
Has someone hijacked zikky's user I.D

Nooo! I dey kampe

free123:
zikky's id has been hijacked

Don’t panic, I have not gone bonkers I just wanted to see what it like arguing from a Joagbaje perspective

Image123:
LOL @ zikky typing with tongue in cheek.

Which one you dey na

Image123:
Even the OP sef prime 'sunspet'.

abi?

GMcompere:
I dont think God will be so involved with a our kobo kobo, God does not need the money, its the people that needs it. God only wants our heart to be in tune with His will. Its not the amount or where it is paid,

I believe you will be having issues to settle with your pastor. He will not be happy with you.

KunleOshob:
^^^
Has someone hijacked zikky's user I.D

GMcompere:
@Zikky of course I know that tithe is 10% and definitely i know about tithe. its 10% and who says I cant divide the 10% and pay into two places? scripture did not say where, its says, store house and not church. So your understanding of a store house is relative, from the name store house, its a place where the tithes can be accessed and distributed for the use of the ministry. Is mission work not a very vital ministry work?

It was the temple’s storehouse which equates to church bank account today (since you are bringing cash). The church can choose to spend it how they want. They can use it for mission work if they want to, that’s no longer your business. If choose to split it and render half to God, you have not tithed, and likely to miss out on the associated blessings.

GMcompere:
Zikky, dont be legalistic here, try and think and see what am saying, remove all the doctrines and open your heart. Our God is need oriented being, and i dont think God is monitoring where you pay or dont pay, its about your heart obeying His commandment.

I am not being legalistic; there is a requirement for tithing. Are you saying that is not the reason you pay tithe? What did the commandment say? Did the commandment say you can pay tithe anywhere, anyhow? Are you obeying the commandment of tithing by splitting it?

GMcompere:
Talking about using the 90% for other things, what if the writer is already spending the other 90% judiciously and hey! what he decides to do with his 90% is entirely his business.

What about your regular church offerings? Am sure it’s not from the tithe. Same way you can support the missionaries and other charitable activities from the 90%. If you are not happy with this advice, then you probably have to re-evaluate your current ‘giving model’ if it’s not working for you. But I can tell you tithe is not negotiable, it must be ten percent to your local church (or temple storehouse as applicable) or it’s no longer a tithe. BTW what did your pastor tell you?

GMcompere:
@Zikky, let me break this down for you, lets assume my tithe is 4kobo and i decided to pay 2k each to my church and Missions, now how does that break the tithe? Mind you the tithe is not about the money but the act that comes from the heart. Please don't also forget that God looks at our heart and not our acts.

Tithe is a tenth and it belongs to God, and you can’t split it. Shikenna. The tithe must go to God’s house. 5% is no longer tithe; it has to be a tenth (10%). Why is it difficult for you to fund the missionaries from the remaining 90%? I don’t think your heart should not be involved here; tithe is a commandment you must adhere to. If it is not about the money (or percentages), why call it tithe? Are you sure you understand what you are talking about or maybe I should ask why you (your basis for) tithe?

GMcompere:
My question is this, is it right for me to split my tithe, pay a part to the missionary institution (church) and the rest to my local church?

No! You cannot split your tithe. There is nothing like half tithe. Tithe belongs to God and your local pastor is the ‘on-ground’ representative to receive your tithe. You cannot pay your tithe outside your local church please. Any attempt to split it will result in you missing out on the blessings attached to the tithe. You still have 90% of your earnings to play with. You can support the missionaries from this

LoveKing:
You even think outside the box (bible) too. Thats cool. keep it up, someday you will know the truth.

Yes o To prove tithe is compulsory you have to think outside the box (bible). You should try going through NL tithing threads; you are likely to see (fraud motivated) creativity at its best

ogajim:
I have come to the conclusion that some "Christians" can never be moved from their indoctrinated status, they have "answers" for everything whether that makes them objects of laughter to say the least or not.

Yes o! That’s a fact. The only reason some of us post around here is because of the ‘potentials’ that are likely to be deceived by their frequent regurgitation of the ‘greed/lust for material gains inspired’ pastoral misinterpretation of the bible.

ogajim:
I doubt that it's only CEC in Nigeria that does this after all, Church has become the fastest growing business in Nigeria with the business plan straight out of the gold 'ol USA.

A good number of churches preach compulsory tithing. It was never a CEC thing. It appears to be all about CEC, probably due to the fact that they have the most (hyper) active representation around here (and takes all the bashing).

nuclearboy:
Well, at least OP is using his brains here not regurgitating pastor chris

I think there should some limitations on the use of his brain. It's safer to copy and paste from the more experienced Oyaks. This will minimise the number of controversial posts

But oga Jo, an e-version will not cost the church anything na or is there something i am not aware of

yommyuk:
% giving is contrary to what I am talking about.

That’s what you think. But your post reflects the contrary (reason why I said you should listen to yourself), especially when you equate tithing to giving. You want me express my love in percentage terms

yommyuk:
why does the word "Tithe" rub you up the wrong way?

You really believe it does 

yommyuk:
Why should I justify why I tithe to you or anybody else?

This is my position as well, you don’t need to. But you spend time doing that in the course of encouraging me to tithe.

yommyuk:
To me tithing is what I give consistently as an expression of God's love towards me. He that made me a source of blessing is the one whom I glorify with my tithes.

Good for you 

yommyuk:
How can you say I am deceiving myself and others.

You are. What you are telling me to do here is give not tithe.

yommyuk:
Do you know my inner motive for tithing.

I don’t need to know, I am not interested. It’s of no value to me 

yommyuk:
Has someone decieved U in the past? if that is the case, ask yourself what was your motive to give. Search yourself bro

Sorry to disappoint you, but I have never given a tenth of my income to my pastor or Church (as a registered entity different from the members). You are the one attempting to deceive me here

yommyuk:
@Zik, Look, I have been around the block and I know the score. Who is fooling who? You are the one that is fooling me by tagging/Limiting "TITHES" as a 10% giving.

Fool you ke? I am only trying to remove the olumo rock in your eye with my state of the art, fast selling (& super effective) ‘eye cleaner’

yommyuk:
When Abram tithed, it was an acknowledgement of Melchizedek as a spiritual superior(Priest/Pastor) and affirmation that God had given him the victory.

Okay, if you say so 

yommyuk:
Looking at the Law of Moses, I like what I see. Tithing as an acknowledgment for honoring God for his goodness and giving me the grace to have more than enough to give; especially to the gospel/needy.

Good for you. I really like this post If you continue with posts like this, I just might tithe

yommyuk:
For me it is mandatory to tithe

Ba wahala.

yommyuk:
I will continue to encourge(Not Force) other believers to emulate such.

Ensure they don’t end up gamblers and see God as a 'kalo-kalo' machine. You can do that by not interpreting the bible to suit your message.

God did mandate you to give in percentages,

My apologies for the error, the post below has been corrected.

Zikkyy:
God did not (Edit) mandate you to give in percentages, Christ did not request giving in percentages, the apostle did not preach giving in percentages. The Lord will be most pleased if you can give your all.

yommyuk:
Are you ready to start tithing/Giving to the gospel or Give your all

I already told you I do give, but not in tithes. You are not satisfied with that 

yommyuk:
"Tithing/Giving" is mandatory

Tithing and Giving is the same thing to me jare.

Does anyone have an issue with the above statement?

If you see tithing and giving as the same, it’s most likely you don’t give more than 10%. Please don’t tell me you measure true Christian love in percentages

Azibalua:
Tithing is mandatory for all Christians if not why are those who do not tithe called robbers if it was not mandatory for them to tithe.
It's more like keeping what does not belong to you.

This is the problem I have with you people You justify your action with Malachi (which refers to the tithing requirement under Mosaic law), when you are harassed, you run off to hide behind Melchizedek, your high priest (having rejected Christ as your high priest). Maybe Melchizedek told you tithe is mandatory, or did Melchizedek call non tithe paying Christians robbers? Please don’t take this as an insult (that’s not the intention), but I think you are a candidate for rehab, you need to get the ROR off your blood stream, pick the bible please.

yommyuk:
2 Corin 9:7
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

The above should put that "argument" to rest. They should read the "PARABLE OF THE SAMARITAN" and learnt to apply wisdom to every situations.

The reason for saying "Tithing is mandatory" is that, if you are in a position to meet a need which you can surely afford, as a follower of Christ, u are obliged to step in. In contrast, it will be accounted as FOOLISHNESS to pay your tithes in church, while at the same time the Kids school fees needs to be paid

I do understand you need a justification for your tithing activities. But please do listen to yourself. You are not talking about tithing. What you have been preaching is giving, not tithing. You only deceive yourself and the not so smart and desperate Christians.

Don’t let the pastors foo.l you, there is nothing like tithing as you purposes in your heart, there is nothing like tithing 20%, 40%. These are all giving. Tithing is a tenth, and nobody in the bible paid more than a tenth as tithe in the bible. Tithing restrict giving (to 10%), and some people might feel justified having rendered his/her 10%. So you are likely to do more damage than good, when you encourage people to give 10% (especially when they can give more). By doing this you also bring rules (the setting of thresh-holds) into giving, it is no longer giving as you purposes in your heart.

Giving is good, it reflects love (if done with a sincere heart). Giving a tenth of your income to your church (as you purposes in your heart) is not a bad thing. God did not set this rule for you, if it was based on your love for God and your love for your neighbor, he will accept your offering.

Please go ahead and render a tenth of your income to the church if that is what you want to do. You do not need to provide justification.

I just need you to get this out of your head; God did not (Edit) mandate you to give in percentages, Christ did not request giving in percentages, the apostle did not preach giving in percentages. The Lord will be most pleased if you can give your all.

nuclearboy:
@Kunle & Zikky:

Let us for even one moment imagine that though Christ never collected tithes, His being our high priest and therefore a form of levite requires that tithes be paid to Him.

We know that in the OT, tithes belonged to Levite, widow, needy and stranger and they used them for their enjoyment since it was their God given right.

Christ has in His Own Dispensation told us what His enjoyment is - Give it to me! And He says to give Him, give to the poor and needy. That is how Christ says it gets to Him.

So whats the controversy about? Let the cunning MOGs devise plans around something else but if anyone wishes to pay tithe, it should be as the owner has demanded which is by giving to the needy. If that needy is a pastor, fine! If it is an Orphan, fine! If it is someone temporarily hard up, fine! But nobody can justify giving Billions to a few people. Even Aaron was not regarded a special person cash-wise. And Christ also was not so these criminals resemble neither Aaron or Christ and those are the only two dispensations till date. These are just mainly lazy people

True talk