₦airaland Forum

Joagbaje:
So I urge you, look to the coming year with hope, faith and confident assurance that you’d win on every count! There’s a greater glory ahead. Forget the failures, weaknesses, and disappointments you may have experienced in the outgoing year, and set your focus on the present and future glories, successes, victories and triumphs the Lord has set before you.

Maybe at the beginning of the year, you outlined so many things you wanted to achieve by the end of the year. But now, taking stock, not much of those things pulled through for you; don’t be discouraged. Find out where you missed it! Find out what you ought to have done to help you achieve those goals you didn’t attain, and then make up your mind not to repeat the same mistake in the coming year.

It took you this long to realize that members are human after all, I thought they are ‘gods’.

Anyways, thanks for the post. People need to be reading posts like this at this time.

mikeg:
It follows that as High Priest forever after the order of Melchisedec = (head of Gods people in direct succession of the "King of righteousness and peace"

You say the order of Melchizedek has to do with his title as King of righteousness and peace? I am not so sure this is correct. Jo is the learned person here, he needs to come share his views on this.

mikeg:
Melchisedec is not so much a name as a title meaning "King of righteousness and peace".

It appears you were referring to Christ (and not the person Melchizedek a.k.a. ‘king of righteousness and peace’), when you said we are under the priesthood of Melchizedek. Well, if that’s what you meant, no wahala. But don’t you think it’s easier to say we are under Christ priesthood? Why take the long route?

Joagbaje:
^^^^Melchizedek was a man who has no record of birth or death. A king priest, a type of christ. The order of Melchizedek preceded levitical order. Several people were high priests under levitical order under the Jewish law. But the sacrifice of christ ended the levitical order which was for Jews only. We are back to Melchizedek order , and Jesus is the high priest .

Sir, you are not helping me by avoiding my requests. My request again;
1. What is Melchizedek order?
2. Can we make that distinction between the ‘order of Melchizedek’ and Melchizedek priesthood?
3. I need to know what makes Christ priesthood and that of Melchizedek ‘one’

Thanks.

Joagbaje:
^^^that's what the bible says. I don't understand sign language to know how they communicate. We can both do a study on it.

Okay sir. No problem.

Joagbaje:
Well they are one. Christ is a highpriest under the Order of mechizedek priesthood. As Aaron was a high priest under the Order of levitical priesthood.

Christ priesthood is what it is, Christ priesthood. Same for Melchizedek priesthood. Agreed they are both priesthood but that is where the similarities end. Where you say ‘they are one’, are you saying Melchizedek is Christ? I guess what you should be doing is educating people on the ’order of Melchizedek priesthood’. What exactly are we saying when we say Christ priesthood is under or according to the order of Melchizedek priesthood? I would appreciate some clarifications sir.

The Jews made reference to Melchizedek priesthood when defining that of Christ, but is Melchizedek priesthood truly eternal or seen as a living priest (i.e. eternal) simply because there are no documentations regarding his birth and death? The way I see it, to claim that Melchizedek lives, is to subscribe to the existence of two living (and eternal) priesthood. I believe we can only have one. Unless you are telling me Melchizedek is Christ. Your clarifications will be valued sir.

I hope you will provide clarification on how both priesthood ends up as ‘one’. Thanks

Joagbaje:
Point if correction we have ministration to the blind and not to deaf mute. Some people are skilled in communicating with special cases. Honeslty I don't have detail information. But if I must get a dog saved I must learn the language of barking.

Maybe we should create a thread on that and the specialist on such can enlighten us .What of mad men ? Mental cases, imbeciles, austism patient, the man in a coma etc. It's not every human person that can be ministered to.

Thanks for the communications bit Jo, but you missed a part of the question. You said our confession has to be spoken; i just needed to know if the mute will be exempted here.

mikeg:
Furthermore, I would suggest that the Melchisedec priesthood is the only New Covenant (Christian) priesthood and the only priesthood of which, according to scripture, Christ is the head.

Oga mikeg, what has mechisedec priesthood got to do with the new covenant? Are you under mechisedec priesthood or under Christ’s priesthood? They are not the same.

Joagbaje:
but that doesn’t make them saved. There’s more required for salvation than just believing. We must confess the Lordship of Jesus over our lives to be saved!

Joagbaje:
When a man a man declares Jesus as lord and openly confess him . Those words are tangible in the spirit realm. He is launched into salvation.

Can you provide some clarifications here Jo,

One, can this confession be done in the bedroom with just the Lord in attendance or must it be a public show with ‘men’ also in attendance.

Two, (slightly related to manmancho question but with a different objective) – you said confession via spoken words is required, what happens to the man that is mute? For one that is un-able to utter a single word, is salvation still attainable?

InesQor:
Oh boy, you know what God hears and what God doesn't hear?

You forget Jo has 'godly' qualities

Joagbaje:
When Jesus and us will come from heaven to fight for israel.

Hmmm. G. I. Jo  Been trying to visualize a fight scene with you in an armored suit, sword in hand (or is it RPG?) chasing some baddies    Assuming you do make to heaven, I think Christ should ensure an angel is given the task of monitoring your every move, just to ensure you don’t let in some of them sinners into Heaven via the back door (after collecting egunje in the form of tithes and offerings) 

Tonye-t:
Jo, Christianity is a vocal movement. . .Christianity is a people who will never remain silent and allow the influences of darkness becloud righteousness. . .inotherwords WE ARE OUTSPOKEN!

Jo dey hide plenty skeletons for his cupboard. If you look under his bed, skeletons dey yanfu-yanfu. His backyard nko? dat na long story. Too much skeletons Jo dey use skeleton as lampstand, so i no blame the guy for wanting to remain silent. My brother abeg carry go talk as much as you can. I dey your back

MyJoe:
@Joagbaje
That was wonderful and I have no doubt God will reward you. But I think you should not have uploaded the pictures without the young man's consent, as some people take privacy matters rather seriously.

The man no dey hear word i did advise him. It's not a nice thing to do.

mabell:
@joeagbaje,
@joagbaje,
kunlesohob is douting your testimony

why don't you put the scriptures to cure the doubting thomas

Now we don’t want Jo rushing down to the nearby hospital with a camera, do we? or go searching for somebody in similar condition on the streets of Bayelsa Let me help Jo out here. I don’t subscribe to posting the pictures, now that the guy is sane. I think there are privacy issues to consider here. Jo should obtain permission before posting any picture here.

@mabell, thanks for providing some clarifications. I am truly impressed by your efforts to clear up what you believe are misconceptios about CE. Keep it up 

mabell:
@Zikky,
Christ Embassy has being impacting the lives of the sick and well as well as the poor and the rich in so many ways
One is through the Innercity Missions, they are responsible for thye upkeep of children on the streets, the orphans, the homeless and the poor. They take them from the streets, clean them, feed them and send them to school. This is aside the one they do on the 26th of December every year. Just go to a Christ Embassy church closest to you to confirm for yourself. Clothes are given out at random as well as shoes and food items.

I don’t expect the church to go public with its community services, and I did believe before now that the church participates in some form of community service. That’s why I said the church should improve on its current performance. I am also aware that the issue of the church attending to the needs of its members is quite tricky as the church might find itself in a crisis situation similar to a ‘run’ on a bank. That said, you might want to find out what proportion of the church collection goes to such activities. Sometimes, a special collection is taken for charitable activities leaving the church cash intact.

It’s not just about helping the needy, mabell. My position is this; ‘why take in a situation where you should be giving’. Mabell, I like to ask this, let assume there is this (genuinely) homeless beggar in your neighborhood that relies on the pittance (enough to probably buy agege bread) he collects from passersby to survive. Now let assume it’s your birthday, and this beggar comes to you with cash gift (his collections for the day, and he is yet to buy his once a day agege bread meal) as your birthday present. Ignoring any superstitious or spiritual concerns, would you take the money? And even if you do take the money, what would you do for him? I know Joagbaje would gladly receive & pocket the money because he wants to help the beggar break off poverty and lack mentality, or probably to challenge his faith. My issue then with pastors is made worse when the collection is no longer based on the freewill of the giver  (remember the beggar gave freely), we can read this from Petres experience.

mabell:
I was opportuned to go to one of the spots used last year. You need to see both the old and young and the smiles on their faces

This to me is the best part. How did you feel, watching them and knowing you played a part bringing such joy to others? I am sure there was much rejoicing in heaven as well. Now tell me what gives you more satisfaction (joy), buying fuel for Joagbaje’s Toyota prado or giving these people a pair of clothing each and watching their face lit up with joy. And which of these acts do you think carries greater acceptance in heaven?

mabell:
but you should know that CEC does not take from the poor or rich, rather, they give to them.

I believe you refer only to the poor and not both poor and rich. But we all know Joagbaje collects from the poor (we see confirmation of this fact in some of his posts). If jo takes from the poor, then CE takes from the poor. It’s that simple.

Joagbaje:
It's amazing that those who are busy insulting and attacking in the name of advocating for the poor are not really helping anybody. Not even the poor. Ironically it is the people that are being attacked and insulted that are really helping the poor.

Now it’s your turn to condemn people when you don’t have all the information required to pass judgment. Besides, the people you refer to never claimed to be saints.

cemehere:
But a Pastor is a shepherd that has sheep that follows him. He is the one that symbolizes God to them and his voice alone his cheep listen to, any other voice they don’t follow.

Oga, I am not sure you read this before posting. Now you create an image of God to worship here on earth. Remember the commandment thou shall not worship any other God . . . . . .

cemehere:
It will only show you’re ignorant if you will say a Christian is a man. The Christian is not a man, the Christian is God.

I just wonder what Godly attribute you posses that makes you one.

uche13:
How else will the sick, the poor and the down troddedn be taken care of. Do we just preach to people without taking care of their immediate needs.

To be sincere, I am yet to see the impact of the church on the lives of the sick, poor and downtrodden. You can begin to assess from within the church itself, or is money taken from the poor in the congregation and given to those outside?

uche13:
Are you aware that there are countries where churches are banned and the christians there just rely on satelite tv programs for their edification.

I am not aware of such country, but if there is, I am sure satellite access will also not be available. So let not deceive ourselves.

uche13:
On the issue of prosperity and a christian i know as a fact that it is not wrong for a child of God to seek to be prosperous or be wealthy.

true.

I do agree that churches do need funding, but let also be sensitive to the needs of church members as well. Churches become desperate for funds when they overstretch themselves (financially), and that is what i see happening. Somebody mention CEC having over 3,000 highly paid workers and I wonder what the church is producing or selling (though it’s not clear if they are scattered round the CEC locations ‘worldwide’ or just HQ). The church as an entity might not be able to do much for its members but I am quite sure they can improve on their current performance. Member’s welfare should be part of the church priorities. There are members that probably don’t get to eat more than once in a day while the pastor lives in extreme luxury. Close assessment of the life of the pastor vs. the congregation shows similarities with that of the larger society (the people vs. the politicians; our legislators for example). I believe there will be less condemnation (on the money side) when the church/pastors become more sensitive to the needs of their members.

Joagbaje:
What else do you expect from a disloyal person? . Those who decamped from following Jesus will paint him in bad light. So it's not a big deal.

Are you saying the man that refuses to follow chris is not following Jesus? So chris=Jesus? Oga Jo na wa for you.

Joagbaje:
And I get inspired by givers. Because they always have testimonies .

Oga Jo talk true abeg, you don add small spice for this story. I want to believe everybody in your church gives (one way or the other), are you na saying they ‘all’ have testimonies concerning their giving? On a regular basis?

Joagbaje:
Some ministers may do things like that to help the members break off poverty and lack mentality .  The purpose was not to enrich the minister.

You are asking the poor man to give what he does not have as a way of helping him shake off his poverty and lack mentality. I wonder what form of mental illness will be attributed to the rich man (including the pastor) that will only give a minor portion of what he has. How do you cure that? Why is it that the only cure for poverty is by giving to the church/pastor.

Jo is truly misrepresenting the church. I get the impression pastors are given special training in the art of lying and scripture twisting. Is that what it takes to win souls for Christ? Or just for the pocket?

nuclearboy:
A poor man sat begging outside a temple. "In the name of Bhagwan give this hungry man some money to fill his belly" he cried. "Bhagwan will bless you." But the devotees gave him very little. In disgust the beggar left thetemple and sat outside a country liquor shop. "A few paise in the name of Bhagwan," he whined. As customers came out of the shop in high spirits (mainly drunk and feeling good), many dropped rupee notes in his bowl. Thanking God, the beggar said: "Hey Bhagwan, truly inscrutable are thy ways! You give one address but you live in another."

Seriously, i think it is.

petres_007:
Funny, but I remember now that this Dec 7 thingy was one of the straws that broke the camel's back for me back then. The satellite church I attended was a super broke one (till today  ) despite all of our then pastor's efforts to get us to walk in this ever so elusive supernatural abundance. We just kept getting broker and broker 

    You guys lacked the required level of faith to will the money into existence, thats all.

Interesting piece from The Clown.

The Clown:
And if you think pentecostalism you know today would be the same in ten years to come, you are in for a shock. Pentecostalism would continue to change and change like it has always done.

Very true, the Pentecostal movement is constantly evolving.

The way I see it, the movement of the future will continue to be influenced by the ever changing needs/priorities of its members, which in turn is influenced by the societal demands/pressures. Let’s not forget the creativity/motivation of its leaders as well.

The Clown:
penticostalism is based on personal perception of the Bible alone. No doctrine, no strict regulations, no laid down traditions, no established organisation that is superior to its founder, not even a formal training is strictly required. Men would rise up and interprete the bible the way that suits them, the way they want to believe it, like it has started already.

I find this bit quite interesting, and true. This is probably where the ‘old school’ or orthodox churches practices differ from ‘Penteconstalism’. The ‘old school’ churches do well here, agreed they have been quite slow responding to societal changes as a result having all this in place. While their mode of worship might not fully reflect or meet modern day societal standards, it's the reason they survived for centuries to this day.

The Pentecostal movement appear to be lacking here, the apparent lack of tradition, strict regulations, e.t.c  does have some advantages as it allows for much flexibility and the church easily adapts and change with society. But it also have its side effect; instead of the church shaping societal norms/values, it very likely that the Pentecostal movement will end up being influenced by what society have to offer. Why? because the movement easily adapts and wants to remain relevant. We are already seeing evidence of this (prosperity gospel for example), and it’s likely to continue. Where it takes the movement? I don’t know. But I am not so sure it’s in a direction you would like, Tonye-t.

My vote will be biased toward members with posts I find difficult to ignore.

1. Nuclearboy – Very active poster and stands for the truth.
2. Joagbaje – Controversial? Yes, but a nice gentleman, even though I don’t agree with a good number of his posts (statistics? Well, that will be over 90%), he’s one reason I post on NL. Seriously, he’s the only reason I am participating in the poll, sad but that’s the truth.

Other posters I love reading in no particular order (and excluding the mod)

1. Alethia
2. Enigma
3. Kunleoshob
4. Pastor AIO
5. Myjoe
6. Tonye-t
7. Inesqor

Oga Tonye, I don’t understand you. I thought you’ve been enjoying the goings-on in your church till this time. Na wa for you, why you dey complain.

Tonye-t:
a fortress that once played a major role in strengthening my faith has now become nothing more than a ‘wall street’.

You never see anything.

Joagbaje:
There are times of challenges and one just need to sow a seed for a miracle.

Oga Jo, miracle is free, you dont need to pay the Almighty for it.

Joagbaje:
There are seeds and givings that provokes the anointing.

For example , Isaac wanted to bless his son Isaac/jacob . He had to make him come and give him food first to provoke the anointing. He was an anointed man. This is not just a father / son affair. He was dealing with him by the spirit.

You just have to attribute everything to giving, because you must receive. I wonder why Jacob did not ask for food before blessing Joseph, and his sons, Ephraim & Manasseh. Abi Jacob was not an anointed man. The anointing will not be provoked because Joseph did not cook for Jacob abi?

Joagbaje:
Another case was when Elijah was sent to a widow, but the widow was so broke and had only her last meal before death. Elijah commanded her to bring him food first. Why? The anointing. And when she obeyed, the anointing sustained her and them. If she had not sown the food, she would have died .

Are you sure? The way I see it, there was already a plan in place for the widow to take care of Elijah all through the period of famine. Yes, she might have died if God had not used her for the purpose, but not because the she gave Elijah food first.

1 Kings 17:7-9 (NIV)
7 Some time later the brook dried up because there had been no rain in the land. 8 Then the word of the LORD came to him: 9 “Go at once to Zarephath in the region of Sidon and stay there. I have directed a widow there to supply you with food.”

Joagbaje:
Just like the case of the barren shunamite woman that persuaded her husband to give elisha accommodation. He blessed her and she conceived . But the secrete was the fact that she recognise the anointing upon him. She received him as a prophet and not a beggar.

The part highlighted is so so wrong 

Yes maybe she recognized him as a man of God, but due to your desire/lust for money, you missed the good part; she did not ask for anything in return. It was never an attempt to provoke the anointing for personal gains. Those are the people that easily receives blessing from the God.

Joagbaje:
11 One day he came there and stopped and went to the room upstairs to lie down. 12 He ordered his attendant Gehazi, “Call this Shunammite woman. ” So he called her and she stood before him.
13 Then he said to Gehazi, “Say to her, ‘Look, you’ve gone to all this trouble for us. What can we do for you? . . . . .Gehazi answered, “Well, she has no son, and her husband is old. ” . . . . 16 Elisha said, “At this time next year you will have a son in your arms. ”. . . . 17 The woman conceived and gave birth to a son at the same time the following year, as Elisha had promised her.

As usual you only quote the part of the scripture that seems to align with your position. That’s how you deceive the congregation, they never get to hear the fully story. You deliberately skipped some bit of verse 13 & 14. Don’t worry, I will fill in the gap on your behalf. You don’t need to thank me.

Joagbaje:
11 One day he came there and stopped and went to the room upstairs to lie down. 12 He ordered his attendant Gehazi, “Call this Shunammite woman. ” So he called her and she stood before him.
13 Then he said to Gehazi, “Say to her, ‘Look, you’ve gone to all this trouble for us. What can we do for you? , Can we speak on your behalf to the king or the commander of the army? She replied, “I have a home among my own people.” 14 “What can be done for her?” Elisha asked. (NIV)
. . . . .Gehazi answered, “Well, she has no son, and her husband is old. ” . . . . 16 Elisha said, “At this time next year you will have a son in your arms. ”. . . . 17 The woman conceived and gave birth to a son at the same time the following year, as Elisha had promised her.

AS you can see, the woman insists she had no problem. It took the intervention of his servant Gehazi to identify the woman’s problem.

Enigma:
Jesus' teaching is simple and clear: as long as you feed the hungry, clothe the unclothed, visit the prisoner ---- in other words, help the poor around you ---- you are doing it for Jesus or, to appropriate the daft Christianese, you are sowing into Jesus Himself.

This says it all. Why sow into some pastor's annoiting (assuming he truly is annoited) when you can sow into Jesus himself? Why go for prophet reward, when you can receive Christ reward?

Joagbaje:
But Melchizedek that took tithes from Abraham  lives .

What exactly are you saying here Jo?

Joagbaje:
Jesus had been made a highpriest in thesame order with melchizedek. So our tithing is recieved by a high priest with endless life in the order of melchizedek.

Oga Jo, must you twist the scriptures to prove a point  I know you desperately want to protect your chop-chop, but please stop equating Christ’s priesthood to that of Melchizedek  They are not the same and we are not under the priesthood of Melchizedek, we are under Christ priesthood. Melchizedek is now your high priest because you want to collect tithe. You should be ashamed of yourself Jo 

And don’t come back to me with the quote that Christ priest hood is in the order of Melchizedek, it’s because you deliberately refused to understand what Apostle Paul was talking about, just to satisfy your greed.

Please go back and read your bible with intent to understand and not to defraud 

donnie:
Hebrews 7:11
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Do you really understand the part highlighted above? Tip: Read the chapter all over again. If you dont have the stamina, read verse 3, then verse verses 15-17 and verse 24-25. Then work your brain little.

Joagbaje:
So the world move from Order of Melchizedek to levitical Order and now back to Melchizedek

Seriously, oga Jo, you dey fall my hand here you no try at all are you saying you are now under the priesthood of melchizedek? Just because you must collect tithe

Joagbaje:
After the Levitical order was over, we've been brought back under the Melchizedek order. Tithing was an institution under him in time past

Jo should provide source of info here.

Joagbaje:
So the world move from Order of Melchizedek to levitical Order and now back to Melchizedek  The tithe collecting order .

i no fit laugh  

Joagbaje:
They can't be quantify. Financial Security, life security,

This is great. Tithers dont die young. Methuselah must have been rendering a 100%  

sarmy:
I strongly believe that it's possible for one to follow Christ's words, in fact the best way to live this life is to follow him

Everything he said anchor on #Love, Forgiveness and Service to humanity.

If you can work on these 3 things you will be his follower.

sarmy:
Those messages on the mount are hardly preached in churches anymore.

One may wonder if they are no more relevant to Christians anymore

Are Christians really interested in practicing sincere love? Without considering the possibility of rewards?

You first need to ask how souls are won, why people give their life to Christ. You have to understand that motive is everything. Why do people give their life to Christ? Why do people go to church, why are they at every miracle producing crusade, why the ‘nightly night vigil’? is it because  they really love the heaven talk? Is it because they fell in love with Christ Sermon on the Mount? is it because they see it as a possible solution to solving life problems? Is it because they just want to ‘belong’?

You need to first ask if a good number of Christians are truly Christians. A faulty foundation will never result in solid structure.

I am of the opinion that 'why we are what we are' actually determines how we live out our lives.

Most pastors have discovered the secret and will only sell marketable products preach sermons that align with the needs of the congregation. Chikenna.

Joagbaje:
You cannot know Jesus without discovering who you are; to know you, you look at Jesus for He’s the mirror of God. This is why it’s important that you keep looking into the mirror of God. It’s not a one-off act, but a continuous activity recommended for us by the Spirit of God, for as you keep looking into the mirror of God, you’re changed!

Oga Jo you better explain this your sermon very well ooh. Some people fit go 'laminate' their bible hang for their sitting room dey look am (three times daily dosage)  Some fit approach you to buy the mirror self, another opportunity for you to make money be that, (selling mirrors) The sermon no complete 

Joagbaje:
James 1:25
anyone who looks into the perfect law of liberty – the mirror of God – and continues to look, being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, that man shall be blessed in his deed (of looking).


Such a man is marked out for blessings for looking continually into the mirror of God. The daily mediation on the word in essential for Christian growth.

OMG  Jo is posting from James 

Joagbaje:
Look at the opening scripture again; it lets me know that I own this world,

Joagbaje:
I can’t but shout for joy.

I don’t know why you are shouting Jo. No be today na. Man has been calling the shots for thousands of years, so no be new thing. It just that man has not really done a good job of managing the world. I just pray man will not destroy the world before Jesus returns 

Joagbaje:
I own everything; I own the whole world.

Oya, begin claim na. No come come my village come claim land sha, e no go pay you 

Joagbaje:
“I own this world; all things are mine!”

Before you ‘corner’ everything for yourself, note that it’s a joint ownership with some others 

Joagbaje:
1 Corinthians 3:21-22.
“…For all things are yours; Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours.”

Reading this quote up to verse 23, I see an arrangement that places Jo at the bottom of the ‘claim pyramid’.

1 Corinthians 3:21-23 (New International Version)
", So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[a] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God".

God, Jesus, church (members), then Jo/Oyak. What this means is that you are answerable to the like of mabell. So Jo/oyak owns the world, then Jo/oyak is owned by the cec members, who in turn belong to Christ. Interesting 

Benstino:
There is a reason that made the early church to do it.The reasons are in this passages ''Jesus answered,most assuredly,I say to you,unless one is born of water and of spirit,he cannot enter into the kingdom of God''John 3vs5. ''For this reason,the gospel was preched to those who are dead,that they may be judged according to men in the flesh, (1 peter 4 vs 6) ''By whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison,who formerly were disobedient,when once the divine long suffering waited in the days of Noah,while the ark was being prepared, in which a few,that is eight souls were saved through water''1peter 3vs19.Even though it appears to us that the dead have no knowledge,but in the spirit world,they do.Jesus preaches to them through spirit and they that accepts him will be saved and then redeemed through the baptism done on their behalf for they cant enter the kingdom of God unless baptised as Jesus spoke in John 3vs5.So brother,the dead are concious and have knowledge in the spirit world while infants who are of this physical world have none.

Two questions sir,

Can we say the dead (at the time) have all repented of their evil ways? Who brought the message back to the living family members that their dead relatives have repented of their sins at the ‘other side’?

Do you really think its right for anybody to be baptized on behalf of another party?