₦airaland Forum

I again see the need to define the prosperity gospel in the light of scriptures seeing how many people are bound to its shackles. I am convinced that the biggest challenge the gospel of Jesus faces in our time is not from outside: Islam, Boko Haram, T B Joshua, Guru Maharaji and such cults; the biggest challenge to the gospel is from within and they are two fold: The prosperity gospel and the holiness movement. The former glorifies a worldly riches like scripture never taught and the latter re-enacts Moses laws from were it is buried to bring believers into a legalistic lifestyle. What is distressing about this is that 80% of churches that call themselves "living" churches, find themselves in this two folds. I will limit my discuss here to what scripture says.

Thus the gospel of grace is introduce:

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousneiss: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This is all the gospel we called to believe: Justification is by faith alone. Following this faith two things come to the believer an imputation of righteousness by faith and the blessing that come to our lives as we trust God for things of this life. No one exemplifies this better than Abraham. Abraham obtained righteousness by faith and obtained Isaac by faith: the former being a spiritual blessing and the latter a physical.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: 20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness

The believers life will continually reflect the two needs above. The need for right standing with God which can only come by faith and the need to have our needs in this life met: our Isaac, which will only come by faith.

But let us observe what follows Chapter 4, chapter 5:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

I can still remember the evening I saw Romans 5:1, the peace that flood my heart when I understood that scripture. But it doesnt end there: We have access in grace by Jesus Christ. This is what we glory in and all that we glory in. The gospel of God's grace to sinful humanity.

But notice something: verse 3, we glory in tribulation: God permits difficulties in our lives and we glory in it. Why because this tribulation is for a purpose, it is to work patience in us, which leads to experience and experience begat hope and hope makes not ashamed.

Notice: the trend there is no believing the gospel of grace, and enjoying the blessing of righteousness, etc, without leading to tribulation. That is why the gospel of grace cannot be divorced from suffering.

This is what the prosperity teaching denies.

The prosperity gospel teaches one aspect of the gospel of grace and that is the receipt of Isaac; it doesn't teach that there is an impartation of righteousness by faith. It combines the legalism of the holiness movement with the Judaistic thinking of upholding laws to obtain blessings. They then use the anointing to give credence to their doctrine. Paul spoke a lot about these men but our prosperity preachers with their perchance for picking scriptures out of context, never discuss those scriptures. let see them:

2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Phillipians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. 18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

And Peter has a word on them too:

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

There many other places in scriptures were the prosperity doctrine was spoken about. They do not preach the doctrine of our Lord and Savior: they preach a gospel that pleases the flesh - a demonic gospel.

Pastor Olu, we are on the same page as far as what you wrote is concerned and you have earned my "like" there. In addition to what you wrote let me quote this scripture:

Hebrew 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein

I did not learn this verse myself; I saw it explained by an Anglican vicar as he discussed sound doctrine in his book Bedrock, I mean David Prior (not popular abi). He showed in that discuss that God wants to strengthen believers in the heart by grace and not by meat, etc (the keeping of the law). From that discuss I am convinced that believers are to understand the grace of God as exemplified by the gospel and that this, rather than lead them to lawlessness, leads them to love and serve God the more. This is in stark contrast to those who think that they can bring believers to maturity by the rules and regulations they put down to order their lives. In the physical they may seem to have attained maturity (perfection) but the days to come will reveal that such laws don't bring anyone to maturity.

The gospel, well understood, strengthens the heart, and leads believers to love and serve God, while His Spirit brings through the process of maturity and perfection. That, my brother, is gospel perfection - Grace at heart!

It took you sometimes to respond. I guess you were busy at church; hope church service was good.

Cheers!!!

Tgirl4real: Very good one poster. This is close to what we looked @ in church today. Talking about having brotherly love towards one another and by extension loving those who hate and persecute us. It's a tough call, but that is little compared to the glory that will be revealed in us.

I see a lot of bashing and name calling going on in this section, which I believe is uncalled for.

Don't get me wrong, 'we' are to refute error and calling people what bible calls them is biblical. And you will be walking in love if you help your brother from erring.


I personally apologise to Frosbel. I was rude to him once or twice during our discourse on the trinity.

Though his position on Jesus' divinity insults my intelligence, yet I choose to forgive him. lol

@ Drummaboy,

Nothing wrong in coming out openly when you find yourself in error. It further strenthens your resolve.

I will respond to you Tgirl because I believe you have capacity to comprehend this:

If Alexleo wronged anyone in words: what we are commanded by the scripture I quoted of Jesus is that we should settle it with God in private. If however, his conscience is still not pacified, his should approach the individuals that he has wronged, name them on this forum, refer us to where and when he wronged them, what he said, and then apologize. That is what that scripture they are bandying about saying we should confess our faults one to another means. To limit yourself to one thread were (it seem to me) you self righteously come out to announce "forgive me everyone pls" is to hide behind generalities and not be specific at all. It is very much similar to what the Catholics do at the end of each week when they approach their reverend father and say "Father, forgive me for I have sinned..." and the the man responds "go and sin no more..."

Alexleo action is commendable only if it is done in the right manner. If he cannot go the length of telling us who he wronged and tell us what he did to them; and so on. He should keep his confession to himself and God.

Long before now, in some other thread, I have advocated and still advocate large heartedness in discussing matters here and the need for us so called believers not to behave ourselves as Politics section guys and be less offensive in our diatribes. I still maintain that view but this thread, I believe is just not necessary. Let us do the right thing and not use a so called profession of love to cover up what should be done in the right way.

Finally, for now, I think religious discuss, in every nation, at any time in history, has never been child's play. Those who come to this section prayerlessly do so to their own peril because we have principalities and powers here and if we do not know our God we will be moved from our steadfastness. Thus the need for a level of maturity and understanding of doctrinal matters before coming here.( Sometimes I am tempted to ask some folks here how old are they when they make comments.) Also, we should know that doctrine in men's heart is a stronghold and our duty as ministers of the gospel is to pull it down; and sometimes the means of doing so might not be as charitable as some are advocating here. I am not calling for physical warfare; but we fight a spiritual warfare in this section. We serve a God of war and it can be war when we are bringing men to the obedience of the gospel. In carrying out this assignment there is no need for the use of offensive or abusive words but we can and must, sometimes, use very tough love.

Western theologians evoked the doctrine of a Just War to give credence to some past but necessary wars in their time. I could as well call my discussions on this forum a "Just War". I am not going to join those who self righteously claim they have never insulted anyone on this forum; I do not know whether I have or I have not but even if I have, I have no apologies for it, I make my apologies to God alone... because I see myself as sent and doing a ministry here.

Goodluck to all the apologists. I wish them the best!

And Joagbaje couldnt respond to any other thing than the quote he pasted above. Should we say the OP is right concerning every other thing he wrote on the prosperity cult, save the quote U brought forth?

Let us assume so... and take up the issue Oga Jo will have us look into. There is no way U can compare that lofty scripture in 1 Cor 1 quoted to the nonsense that goes on in these prosperity churches. Paul talked about the weak and foolish things of GOD: Is the prosperity cult of God?

My guy U will do well to accept the position of the OP and make amends before God comes with his fury and consume U guyz.

And BTW why are U not at the Christ embassy thread were Chris Oyakhilome is being exposed for what he is: a charlattan.

The prosperity gospel is not the gospel of Jesus. The OP has shown us that Jesus, His apostles or Christians in time past never bore these fruits; The bible cannot be re written for our own generation to allow for a prosperity jargon.

I do not think this thread is necessary. If you are convicted on an issue, follow Jesus words on prayer, go into your closet and settle it with God. then turn a new leaf before God alone and not men.

This may be put under restitution but a whole lot that people restitute is not necessary and has a sense of pride in self than God.

But if it makes U feel good. Fine. But let this not set any silly precedence on nairaland.com

If people are immature in their thinking they should not come here and debate issues. What is happening here is a pulling down of stronghold of false beliefs; it is not out of place or out of love to take up issues against people bc in doing so, U are helping them.

Nonetheless, we all must do all we do in love and love is not slimy, Willy, happy everyone kind of thing - there can be tough love too.

New Age

The disciples will reap were they did not sow in that passage because they already sowing something: they are already in a work and so can enter into other people reward.

Galatians makes it clear we reap what we so. That is eternal scripture. Anything less than that is New Age: Prosperity gospel from Satan's kingdom

Demi, I look fwd to your take on the verse but the verse does not in any way say that we would be saved by our works.

What scripture tells us is that we are saved by grace but will be rewarded based on what we do subsequently. 1 Corinthians 3.

Jesus is the foundation, our works is what we build with. If U claim to build without a foundation, U will be damned. So saved by grace, Yes. But rewarded by work; says the bible.

Goshen360: Hey beloved, ^

What they are doing in all of those epistles is REVEALING what is already done. The perfection that the OP quoted, check it, it was BEFORE the LORD said it is FINISHED on the Cross. After the cross, check what is being taught by the Apostles: Look at these scriptures,

King James Bible
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Colossians 1:28

KJV has it "perfect in Christ" but other says "mature in Christ". Either way, it is only "in Christ" that we are perfect.

King James Bible
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Hebrews 13:21

Herein the OP has the answer to his question.

frosbel: no one is going to heaven FYI

We will inherit a new heaven and earth.

Good Night all.

shdemidemi: No one is disputing that, where would you put the passage below in your account

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (have died), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (go ahead of) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Whether heaven o; or earth O... the kingdom we shall inherit as saints of God after this life shall be on Jesus Christ merit and his merit alone, and not on human perfection/merit! I think that is what the OP needs to hear Frosbel and Demi... no derailization here; ok. LOL!!!

Isaiah 1;2;3;4 and 5 we see the holy prophet proclaiming woe is this, woe is that.

In chapter 6, when he sees the Lord and his awesome holiness: Isaiah says WOE IS ME!

May God grant that we see our sins as he sees them; in God's holiness, then we would stop this foolish talk of perfection and begin seeking a perfection beyond us: Christ's perfect righteousness.

Thanks Demi for concurring with me: this kind of talk is the outcome of OLAADEGBU false visions of heaven and hell. All those visions succeed in doing is to create the kind of mentality in the OP.

I disagree with the OP. While the scriptures he used are indisputably true, they are taken out of context.The bible makes it abundantly clear that there is a righteousness of God that comes to Christians when we place faith in Jesus. This is gospel perfection. Romans 1:16-17 this righteousness is from faith to faith; every step of our walk with God demands that we cast our hope of perfection on his righteousness, alone. That is gospel perfection. To do otherwise is foolishness , Galatians 3:1.

Every tendency to make Christians think that they can attain some perfection here on earth by some self effort, outside Christ, is to preach a legalistic gospel that undermines the very power of sin that Christ came to destroy. It is because we do not know what sin is that we talk glibly about perfection. The Spirit that claims that he is perfect or is seeking perfection by human effort is a self righteous spirit and that in itself is SIN.

Nonetheless, upon Christ perfection which we trust, we are enjoined to live holy and walk in love; that is all the duty expected of believers.

I repeat if anyone thinks his righteousness or perfection will earn him heaven that person is trusting in self and will be damned at the end.

peaz4al: People say,human being cannot be perfect but God says be ye perfect(mat. 5:48).There is no choice in this matter,the standard of God remaineth sure(2Tim 2:19).So you either live holy and perfect to be rapturable or continue in your sin and go to hell.But I tell you hell is not a palatable place.Please surrender your life to Jesus be totally free from sin so that we can all rejoice in heaven.Be ye holy!

Pastor Olu T: As u answer this, I will also like to know what ur definition of perfection is?

Pastor Olu, what is your own definition of perfection. Because if it is similar to what the OP defined, no one will get to heaven

Great piece Demi

Are U K Sukurat?

^ That will follow a new budget. I will get a way around it sha

Tgirl4real: lol

Where have you been?

You have been sorely missed.

My glo modem cannot browse at the office so I have to wait to get home or use the phone which is not too reliable. I need to see how I can crack that modem sef and go for Etisalat or something...

My sister when U see esoteric theology... U run

Obadiah777 and MostHigh operate on the same frequency though broadcasting from different radios.

The unfortunate truth is that there is a link between the prosperity gospel and neo Judaism. They are children of the same parent - another Jesus, another spirit and another gospel. This I have proved beyond reasonable doubt, atleast for those with the ability to reason.

On the other hand their is a link between the gospel of grace, God's call on us to liberty and the fact that we must share in Jesus suffering here on earth to birth his purpose - these also is from one source - the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The reason why I cannot agree with neo Judaist is that we do no possess the same spirit. It will do those who oppose me and others a great deal of good to find out what spirit propels them before it is too late.

I believe I am done on this thread.

[quote

author=Bidam]You better find something better to do with your life
pal..All this copy paste articles you posted are just hog wash and
lies.[/quote]We write our position on WoF U say it is rubbish; we quote someone else U say it is hogwash.

What exactly do U want O Bidam

Continue with your bondage to the Law and revelling in worldly
prosperity and demonic spirit manifestations. I am done with U on this forum!

Kenny4lyfe: Don't worry, Apostle Paul wouldn't need to take your "Letter Writting 101" at all. He's with the Lord already! I think the one who needs to find his spiritual bearings is very obvious here!

Coherence... my friend. Speak intelligibly

Apostle Paul you said... while we are discussing an apostle John quote. Are you ok?

T girl

I received your PM. Did you get my reply?

Joagbaje: You're adding to the bible . He didnt say spiritual prosperity . The prosperity here is physical and material .

3 John 1:2
We're the best of friends, and I pray for good fortune in everything you do, and for your good health––that your everyday affairs prosper, as well as your soul!

So it was not a spiritual prosperity. So he prayed for his friends that they may be well in the physical as their sould prospers. Have you written a letter before? When you write such letters what do you say? "I hope it is well with you? How are the children? I pray that you will prosper O, my brother, as your soul prospers".

That was a prayer; it was a wish from a friend to a friend; it is not an all time authrized scirpture that commands Christians to be prosperous and healthy.

Well, of course, it is. How else shall you see it? having being veiled with the prosperity gospel for so long. You had better find another church; those charlattans will do you no good.

nlMediator: So after many pages and wasted hours, not one person can still point ONE error in HAGIN's message? And here we have people that are quick to judge. Lord have mercy.

Well Mr Mediator, there you have your errors pointed out to you by the owners of the Let Us Reason Together website. I told you I am not an authority in Hagin but those who are have done the job. Choose which error to respond to out of the plethora listed in the post above or forever keep silent!

Bidam: #yawns# all this thrash just because of the impact Hagin made..these people get time sha..make i go sleep jare.

That is right... thrash! That is what they teach and now they are exposed!!

Thank you debosky for your observation. I have told Image that he does not have what it takes to do an expose of any kind on Romans. How do you read Romans, talkless of teach it, and still be bound to obsolete laws like tithing. It is still this false understanding that is making him think that saints of old took everything that is taught in the OT. If this is so, like you pointed out, why did Paul write all the letters he wrote? Why did he write Galatians?!

Here Copeland makes it absolutely clear that the price had to be paid by suffering beyond the cross.This means he had no victory at the cross but he lost and it was victory 3 days later in Hell.

"The Devil forgot to take into consideration that Jesus hadn’t sinned Himself but, rather, had merely become sin as a result of the sin of others." (Kenneth Copeland, What Happened from the Cross to the Throne 1990 audio tape #02-0017, side 2.)


"... Jesus died two deaths. He died physically and He died spiritually. When Jesus was made to be sin, He was separated from God... When His blood poured out, it did not atone. It did away with the handwriting of the ordinances that were against us... Jesus spent three horrible days and nights in the bowels of this earth getting back for you and me our rights with God..." (doctrinal statement dated March 12, 1979)

Hagin denies unequivocally the "finished work on the cross. "Hagin states "He (Jesus) tasted spiritual death for every man. And his spirit and inner man went to hell in my place. Can’t you see that? PHYSICAL DEATH WOULDN’T REMOVE YOUR SINS. He tasted death for every man. He’s talking about spiritual death." (how Jesus obtained his name tape # 44HO1 side 1)


Copeland repeats his mentor by saying "The death of Jesus Christ was not a physical death alone. If it had been a physical death, Abel would have paid the price for mankind. He was the first man that died because of honoring God and His Word. If it had been a physical death only, it wouldn't have worked! And if He hadn't died spiritually, that body never would have died." (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)


According to these new revelators Christianity has been mistaken for almost 1900 years. To put the redemption before or after the cross makes this another Gospel. It denies the sufficiency of the sacrifice. It was crucial that Jesus was sacrificed on that day at that hour in that way. If it occurred any other time it would not have been accepted by the Father.If Jesus became a sinner (actually worse to take the very nature of Satan) then he would need redemption. But he couldn't redeem himself since he was no longer the unblemished lamb but sinful. Neither could he redeem any of us. If Jesus actually became sin as claimed then he no longer is an unblemished sacrifice Deut.15:21 tells us if any sacrifice had a fault or blemish it was not accepted.


All the animals chosen for the sin offering were types of Christ, according to Lev. 4:3, it was a bull without defect; Lev. 4:23, a goat without defect; Lev. 4:32, a lamb without defect. They were all carefully inspected for any spot or blemish. In 1 Cor. 5:7, Jesus was the Paschal Lamb. As a substitutional sacrifice in the scapegoat motif the one who offered up the sacrifices would place his hand on the animal, signifying a symbolic transfer of sin and guilt (Lev. 4:4, 24,33) The sacrifice became the covering for the sin, God looked on the blood not the sin itself. Isa. 53:6 "...and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all" It was the Father who laid his hand on Christ to be judged in our place. The sacrificial animal did not become sin itself, sin was symbolically charged to it, if it became blemished or in this case sin, it was worthless.


So If Jesus became sin or a demoniac (having the nature of Satan) God could not accept it, he would be a sinful offering. The Bible has a different story 1 Pt.1:19 tells us he was without blemish or defect on the cross. Lev.6:25 tells us the sin offering was most holy before God (not most sinful). Christ did not become sin itself, (2 Cor.5:21)" became" (in the Greek Metonym) means became a sin offering not became sin himself he was a vicarious atonement, he suffered in our place and took our penalty of judgment. In the OT typology the priest would lay his hands on the offering to symbolize the transfer of his sin and guilt. Jesus was the sin bearer , he carried it, not became it.


They replace Jesus saying, "Father, into Thy hands I commend My spirit," With their theology of , "Satan, into your hands I commend My spirit." (temporarily, until he's born again)


When Jesus died he dismissed his own Spirit showing he had control something a mere man or a demon could not. He gave his spirit over to the Father not to Satan. he cried it is finished not it is continued. The veil of the Temple was ripped open immediately showing that God the father accepted his Sons work and it was completed, making the way open to all Heb.10


How can he be forgiven of being sinful in his nature. The faith teachers have the solution but its no better than what has already occurred, it progresses to even worse.


1 Cor. 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. If Christ became sin itself and went to hell to be tortured that means he is accursed. So this proves it is not revelation from the true Spirit of God but another Spirit. Heb.9:14 disagrees with Copelands conversations with God, these revelations are not from the Lord we love and serve but from someone who has a lot less respect.



Here's more from our Modern Gnostics spiritual propaganda. A reborn Jesus in Hell, suffering in Hell, paying our debt in Hell, all from new revelation knowledge.


"Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound and they threw a net over Jesus and they dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence." (F. Price, Ever Increasing Faith Messenger, Newsletter Crenshaw Christian Centre, Inglewood, CA. June 1980, p.7)


"That Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before." ("The Price of it All," Believer's Voice of Victory (September 1991)


Jesus was not tortured by Satan in hell. First of all Satan isn't in Hell and he has no intention of going there, and he certainly doesn't rule there (maybe they have been listening to too much heavy metal music). Yet he will be confined there with a lot of company. Any demons that are there are under lock and key (chains of darkness) they are not roaming free to torture everyone and check back in for a good nights sleep. Read 2 Pt.2:4 and Jude 6, besides Satan is not in control of Hell Jesus is. The only thing that should go to Hell is this atrocious doctrine of theirs.


So how does Jesus escape the torture of his enemies who now have victory over him?


"He [Jesus] was literally being reborn before the devil's very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles.... Jesus was born again-the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him-and He whipped the devil in his own backyard. He took everything he had away from him. He took his keys and his authority away from him." (p. 4-6.)


"It is important for us to realize that a born again man defeated Satan....Colossians 1:18 refers to Jesus as the firstborn from the dead....He was the first man to be reborn under the new covenant." K. Copeland, "Jesus our Lord of Glory": 3 )


There is hardly a difference between what Copeland does to this passage and the Jehovah's Witnesses, both twist it beyond recognition. Notice he changes firstborn to reborn. The Greek word for firstborn (prototokos), has nothing to do with a new birth in the spirit but means primacy and pre-eminence in ruling It explains Christ's supremacy over all creation as the first resurrected eternal man as Rev.1:5 states the firstborn from the dead and ruler over the kings of the earth.In col.1:18"the firstborn from the dead , that in all things. He may have preeminence (his rightful place as the sovereign Lord.)


"Why did He (Jesus) need to be begotten, or born? Because He became like we were: separated from God. Because He tasted spiritual death for every man....Jesus was the first person that was ever born again." (K. Hagin, How Jesus Obtained His Name, Tulsa: Rhema)


Jesus is privileged to be the first born of many brethren, and they do mean "born again."


"Jesus ... was raised up a born-again man ... The day I realized that a born-again man had defeated Satan, hell, and death, I got so excited ...!" (Believer's Voice of Victory , September, 1991)


Why would this excite anyone? Well here's the answer . "The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, ‘Son, realize this. Now follow me in this and don’t let your tradition trip you up.’ He said, ‘Think this way—a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain.’ And I threw my Bible down…. I said, ‘What?’ He said, ‘A born-again man defeated Satan, the firstborn of many brethren defeated him.’ He said, ‘You are the very image, the very copy of that one.’ I said, ‘Well now you don’t mean, you couldn’t dare mean, that I could have done the same thing?’ He said, ‘Oh yeah, if you’d had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could’ve done the same thing, ‘cause you’re a reborn man too." (Kenneth Copeland, Substitution and Identification (Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1989), tape #00-0202, side 2.) Copeland demotes Christ and elevates himself, all that is required is to know the word. But Jesus was the word made flesh! No one can come close to the knowledge and wisdom that was intrinsically in his nature, HE'S GOD!


Benny Hinn can barely contain himself when the same Spirit starts to speak to him on this: "My, you know, whoosh! The Holy Ghost is just showing me some stuff. I’m getting dizzy! I’m telling you the truth …He’s [speaking of Jesus] in the underworld now. God isn’t there, the Holy Ghost isn’t there, and the Bible says He was begotten. Do you know what the word begotten means? It means reborn. Do you want another shocker? Have you been begotten? So was He. Don’t let anyone deceive you. Jesus was reborn. You say, ‘What are you talking about?’…He was reborn. He had to be reborn…If He was not reborn, I could not be reborn, I would never be reborn. How can I face Jesus and say, "Jesus, You went through everything I’ve gone through, except the new birth?" (Benny Hinn, Our Position ‘In Christ,’ Part 1 Orlando Christian Center, 1991)


Hinn agrees with Copeland that Jesus lost his deity became a sinner and needed to have the new birth. Remember this is "his Holy Ghost" telling him this. What this means is that it is the same spirit that heals people. What Spirit do you think this is? Not the true one with lies like this one.


Kenneth Hagin states "He (Jesus) tasted spiritual death for every man. And his spirit and inner man went to hell in my place. Can’t you see that? PHYSICAL DEATH WOULDN’T REMOVE YOUR SINS. He tasted death for every man. He’s talking about spiritual death." (how Jesus obtained his name tape # 44HO1 side 1)


Much like his discipler, Kenneth Copeland also states "If it had been a physical death only, it wouldn't have worked! And if He hadn't died spiritually, that body never would have died." (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

In Peter 3:18, Peter states that Christ was "Put to death in the flesh, but quickened (made alive) by the Spirit." This tells us he died in the flesh but was alive in the Spirit. He did not die spiritually and suffer the same fate as sinful man in hell, even temporarily. He didn't lose his deity, God cannot change his nature! This does not mean that He died spiritually and now he is spiritually resurrected, or by the Spirit. It means he died in the body and his body resurrected.

Acts 2:27, 13:35-37 tells us God would not let him see corruption or decay, this is a term for mortality and fallen humanity. He is contrasted to David who saw sin. Christ was separated on the cross for a time and restored before he died.

Acts 2:27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. Vs.31-32"he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses." Notice it says in both soul and body. It is this Jesus the apostles preached, this is not true for the new apostles.

To say God died spiritually the way they define it is a new revelation, but not a biblical one. Heb.10:10 says "we are set apart by the offering of Jesus body once for all." Redemption was and is through the blood. Scripture does not point to any event continuing afterward as part of our redemption. There is no salvation apart from His blood sacrifice, without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

So much more could be quoted and said but this is sufficient evidence to make it clear they care little about the historic Christian faith but are leading the Church to another place with another Gospel and another Christ. Your choice is to either follow the truth or men who claim to have new truth. Not much of a choice if you love the Lord.

- http://www.letusreason.org/Wf2.htm

ANOTHER GOSPEL ANOTHER JESUS

1 Cor. 15:1: "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and in which you stand By which also you are saved, if you keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scripture."

the Gospel consists of Three points according to the apostle Paul.

1) He died for our SINS 2) He was buried (proving he died). 3) He rose again taking up the same body he came in.

The Gospel concerns Gods son and his work for us to remove our sin . If it is focused on something else other than the cross and his resurrection it is not the gospel of Christ. The Son of God came as the savior (1 Jn 4:14), that he is Lord of the universe (which relates to a triune nature of God). We stand in it by trusting in his work. Salvation is a gift freely given not earned. We work from salvation not toward it. Our part is that we are commissioned to preach it and to make disciples.

2 Cor. 11:3-4 "But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted-- you may well put up with it. (you will have to endure it, or you wear it beautifully, and some do)."

another Jesus - (allos) is a primary word; "else," different (in many applications) The name is the same, its the name Jesus from the Bible but it is not the Jesus of the Bible. He is different one, with some similarities on the surface level.

A different Spirit -(heteros)-to number as opposed to some former person or thing the other of two; referring to quality: that is, one that is not of the same nature, form, class, or kind, to be different.

Another Gospel (heteros) of uncertain affinity; different: altered, strange. It is not the same one Paul preached, it has a qualitative difference.

Alterations of the Christian message have always been with us but not since the beginning of the church have they become so rampant and outrageous. Some of the cults would blush at what is now being said from Christian pulpits.

Paul warns

Gal 1:6-9: "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Another gospel; the same sort"; heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort. "Paul speaks of "a different good (heteros), which is not another" in contrast to any other Gospel which there is none (allos, another like the one he preached),

Angels were always involved in revelation to mankind. Paul under prophetic inspiration warns the believers then and us now of receiving new understanding from a spiritual source that would alter what was first delivered to them. Today so much gets blamed on the Holy Spirit with teachers speaking impromptu from the pulpits.

To be perverted means to twist a thing around, they destroyed it by having additions to grace, distorting the nature of the person and the work of Christ.

To anathematize someone is to label them a false teacher. If someone teaches another gospel that affects who Christ is or how one relates to him , or distorts grace by subtracting or adding any work it becomes another Gospel.They are to be cut off, cast away. anathema- a thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed, in the O T. if it was an animal it was to be slain; in the N.T. it is person or thing doomed to destruction.

According to those who are new Pentecostal leaders the church, Jesus took on the nature of Satan on the cross, died spiritually, and went to complete the plan of redemption in hell. But he had to be born again. No longer is it a baptism in the Holy Spirit as the "2nd blessing", but now are under an anointing for new revelations. They are changing the very message that can save a sinner by shifting the focus to another place. They also change the nature of Jesus at the cross and afterward.

Lets take a journey into the new revelation knowledge of the more famous promoters, the men of renown.

"When Jesus cried "It is finished!" He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne. He was referring to the Abrahamic Covenant. Jesus' death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption" (Kenneth Copeland, "Jesus - Our Lord of Glory", ( Believer's Voice of Victory, April, 1982, p. 3).

This is a direct assault on the Gods way for salvation Christ's physical death upon the cross. This is not debatable the Bible is absolutely clear in its teaching on this matter. Anyone who has read the NT accounts finds the phrase "it is finished" The Greek word for this term is tetelestai, which means the debt (sin) has been paid in full! To say otherwise is calling Jesus, the Scripture, and the Holy Spirit liars.

"Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on a cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid our price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God" (Frederick K. C. Price,javascript:void(0); Ever Increasing Faith Messenger, June 1990, p. 7).

This is what Price thinks of the sacrifice of the unblemished lamb, that if this is the case, two sinners could have obtained it. What does Peter say (2 Pt.2:1) who will bring in heresies that will destroy, even denying the Lord that bought them. They change what Christ said to the thief on the cross, instead of "Today you will be with Me in Paradise," He should have said, "Today you will be incarcerated with Me suffering in hell." Not too hopeful of a promise is it.

"Somewhere between the time He [Jesus] was nailed to the cross and when He was in the Garden of Gethsemane—somewhere in there—He died spiritually. Personally, I believe it was while He was in the garden." (Frederick K. C. Price, Identification #3 ( Ever Increasing Faith Ministries, 1980) tape #FP545, side 1)

If he was separated (dying spiritually in the garden) then why would he wait until the third hour on the cross the cry out "my God my God why have you forsaken me" Price shifts the focus to some other time.One can only wonder why they don' t want to see the glory in the crucifixion as the Apostle Paul did! To die spiritually meaning at the very least separation before he had the sins laid on him is to destroy the whole OT teaching of the blood put on the altar. To have the redemption in another place at another time destroys its very purpose. These become fables the very thing we are warned of in Scripture.

2 Tim 4:4-5 " and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."Are you being watchful ? Or are you listening and believing what certain men are teaching. If not your work as an evangelist will be hindered and your ministries calling will suffer. that's what Paul said , its not my opinion.

Titus 1:14 " not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth." Even in their day there were fables circulating from those who did not yield to the truth. Its been almost 2,000 years and not much has changed.

"The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of Satan in his own spirit. And at that moment that He did so He cried, 'My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me?' You don't know what happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon instruction of God, raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That use to bug me. I said, 'Why in the world would you want to put a snake up there - the sign of Satan? Why didn't you put a lamb on that pole?" And the Lord said, "Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross.'He (Jesus) said, "I accepted in my own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned out." (Kenneth Copeland, What Happened From the Cross to the Throne? cassette tape 1990, Side B).

Ask yourself is this truth, is it written in Scripture or are they going beyond the written word for their information ? If so, Then it is a fable. Why would the Lord tell Copeland it was a sign of Satan when there is not even a hint of this in the he word! While there are numerous problems to be answered with Copeland's conversation with God and being communicated false doctrine. To become sin in his nature does away with the lamb of God who now becomes the lamb of Satan. The only way the cross would be in reference to Satan is that Christ overcame him on it. Col.2:14-15 makes it clear he triumphed at the cross, not in hell. But the faith teachers are saying he became defeated on the cross, that's not the Bibles view, that's theirs.

Col 2:15 " Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it." At the CROSS!

Gloria Copeland agrees of course with her husband "He (Jesus) paid the price for Adam's sin. He suffered in His own body, and more important, in His own spirit. Jesus experienced the same spiritual death that entered man in the Garden of Eden." (G. Copeland, "God's Will For You", Fort Worth, Texas, K. Copeland Ministries, p.5)

This means that Jesus became a sinner just like all of mankind. He was born sinless and died a sinner, how's that for a switch.

Kenneth E. Hagin who is Copelands discipler states, "spiritual death means something more than separation from God. Spiritual death also means having Satan's nature... Jesus tasted death--spiritual death--for every man." K. Hagin, The Name of Jesus, 1981) p.31.

Hagin explains, "...just as receiving eternal life means that we have the nature of God in us, spiritual death means having Satan's nature." K. Hagin, Redeemed, Tulsa, OK, Faith Library, 1966, p.29) As Adam received Satan's nature so did Jesus.

Eph. 5:2 makes it clear Jesus did not become a unholy sinner on the cross, but was a holy sin offering who 'gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a beautiful fragrant aroma, Not a stench of sin!

Benny .Hinn, "Ladies and gentlemen, the serpent is a symbol of Satan. Jesus Christ knew the only way he would stop Satan was by becoming one in nature with him. You say, What did you say? What blasphemy is this? No, you hear this! He did not take my sin; He became my sin. Sin is the nature of hell. Sin is what made Satan…It was sin that made Satan. Jesus said, "I’ll be sin! I’ll go to the lowest place! I’ll go to the origin of it! I won’t just take part in it, I’ll be the totality of it!" When Jesus became sin, sir, He took it from A to Z and said, "No more!" Think about this: He became flesh, that flesh might become like Him. He became death, so dying man can live. He became sin, so sinners can be righteous in Him. He became one with the nature of Satan, so all those who had the nature of Satan can partake of the nature of God." (Benny Hinn, Benny Hinn program on TBN (December 15, 1990).

First of all the origin of Sin is not Hell but from man, it is in our nature.

K.Copeland "The spirit of Jesus accepting that sin and making it to be sin, He separated from His God and at that moment He's a mortal man. Capable of failure, capable of death. And if Satan is capable of overpowering Him there, he'll win the universe and mankind is doomed. Don't get the idea that Jesus was incapable of failure because if He had been, it would have been illegal." (What Happened From the Cross to the Throne, Tape #00-0303)

Not only does he have Satan's nature and has the Devil win (temporarily) but the Son who is God failed.

"He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." (Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," 3.)

Talk about a fable, how does he know this? By the new revelation of the Jesus he serves, the one who failed became a sinner went to hell and was born again.

"For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer. Some people don't want to believe that. They want to believe that after His death, Jesus just stayed in that upper region of Sheol that the Bible calls paradise, but they're mistaken! If He had simply stayed there, there would have been no price paid for sin." (Believer's Voice of Victory, Vol. 19, No. 9, Sept. 1991)


- http://www.letusreason.org/Wf2.htm

Bidam: And how where they ignorant When you love to quote scripture to suit your private interpretations? Imagine someone quoting me 1 cor4..SMH!!

1 Corinthians 4:

1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment (but today we have who think we should not judge anyone just as they do not judge anyone. Here Paul shows that it is a small thing for anyone to judge him): yea, I judge not mine own self. 4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. 6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written (in other words, save for those authorized by scripture we should not exalt men above the normal), that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.


7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it? 8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings (sounds very much like modern prosperity gospel children: they are the kings; and are the rich and the full all in Christ) without us: and I would to God ye did reign (so they were not reigning), that we also might reign with you. 9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last ("what sort of language is Paul using here? We are not last O; we are the head and not the tail ke", as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. ("I refuse it in Jesus name" ko[/i]) 11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace (the great apostle of Christ shows here that in the bid to carry ministry for Jesus he and other apostles have no food to eat, they are thirsty, they are naked and homeless - today our own "apostles" ride in limousines and jets); 12 And labour, working with our own hands (they were not in full time ministry; they had their own jobs like tent making with which they supplied thier own needs for he that does not work must not eat saith the apostle): being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13 Being defamed, we entreat (when our own apostles feel they are defamed, they curse): we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day (Paul, walahi, I refuse this for you in Jesus name".


14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. 15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.


17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church (oh that our own will learn the ways of the apostle). 18 Now some are puffed up (who is who here), as though I would not come to you. 19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. 20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. 21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

That, oh Bidam, is 1 Corinthians 4, depicting the life and ministry of the apostles, not just Paul alone. Contrast it with how Hagin and these modern pastors live and make the right conclusions. The message these men claim to preach is not the gospel of Christ. Simple!

^He should read 1 Corinthians 4 and see how the apostles live and carried out their ministry

Nairaland's Boko Harm

Phew!

^It reminds of another one @ my place of work who goes to Living Faith. He said he may not be known for much after he dies but HE MUST BE KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN SOMEONE WHO LIVED WEALTHY.

I did not spare him but showed him his thinking is foreign to NT Christianity.

^^^

Image you have not responded to the matter on ground either through your own discuss or through the Wesley commentary. The question is did Jesus stay three days, three nights in the grave as he said he would?

nlMediator: My brother, I think you can do much better than that. Somebody opened a thread about Hagin and suddenly you do not want us to talk about him? You talk about "rubbish" and "nonsense" but you've given opportunity for the umpteenth time to spell out this rubbish and not one of you have been able to do so. All I need is "Hagin said X in p. 85 of Y Book and that is scripturally unsound" and we'll take it from there. I believe I have most of Hagin's books in my study or around here. But I promise that if the book you're quoting from is not here, I'll endeavor to order it without delay.

Bidam:[/b]Good.@drummaboy are you up for this challenge?

Ok, I take up the challenge. I took up the time to write this; pls read:

[b]MY POSITION ON KENNETH HAGIN AND THE WORD OF FAITH MOVEMENT

The nairaland.com religious forum is supposed to be a public religious discussion internet site and it makes some sense that if we shall be discussing Christian doctrine we find a common ground to discuss from. For us Christians this is not difficult to do as we have the bible that most churches take as final authority on issues concerning our faith. That is why if the OP brought a video discussing the excesses of the Word of Faith movement I would expect that we use this bible to speak both for or against it. If however we find some folks come here and begin to make insinuations that are almost equating Hagin’s books with the bible, we must resist it adamantly. The Spirit of God is dynamic and can use the basest thing possible, which names the Lord Jesus, to bring men to faith in Christ and grant salvation ultimately. This does not mean that such means are scriptural and a time comes when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes to restore order to such a means. Such is the case with the Word of Faith movement – God used it for a time to bring about His purpose but the WOF is not necessarily scriptural.

I have not been able to finish one book written by Kenneth Hagin despite the fact that I have come across many. The reason is simple: even before I got to know the errors in the WOF I have always found his books boring. The intellectual basis is very shallow; the books seem more packaged for sales than for edification with the glossy paper backs and so on; the text are replete with scripture quotation so that close to half of what is written in the book is a direct quotation from the bible – I often wonder why not just publish the bible and sell; the books contain little discussion on the subject of matter but so many stories bordering on the author’s experience; and finally, and the most tragic, the fact that Hagin uses his visions to grant authority to his writing – such that no one can question his theology and such that his adherents equate his writing with the bible (the very thing I am attacking on this nairaland thread). Hagin is not the only one guilty of this; virtually all authors from the WOF movement do the same.

Unfortunately these are the literatures that make their way into the Nigerian Christian community and so we have the mess we have today. In the USA, were they operate, their fraudulent activities are well known – but they take advantage of our ignorance and gullibility in Nigeria to make money.

Very few people know that Kenneth Hagin plagiarized a lot of the writing of E W Kenyon. A simple google search on this matter will reveal how Kenyon’s daughter had instituted court cases against Hagin on this matter. But even Kenyon’s ideas are not originally his. Kenyon was influenced by the teaching and ministry of Mary Eddy Baker, the founder of Christian Science. One of the major theologies of Christian Science is healing. This sort of healing comes by exerting the will in a metaphysical manner where the spiritual is used to bring about physical changes – New Age. Traditional protestant churches consider Christian Science as a cult and the exertion of the will to obtain healing (which Hagin calls faith) has been proven to be of the occult. Many New Age teachings talk about how one can use the mind to obtain wealth and health; Kenneth Hagin simply adapted this teachings and added some scriptures out of context to them to have the Word of Faith movement. The Mark 11:24 scripture that some of his adherents thought he wrote is a case in point. On this basis and so many others, Hagin have been proven to be a false prophet.

The WOF movement’s chief error is the prosperity gospel. This gospel is called the health and wealth gospel. The means of achieving this prosperity is via the name it and claim it principles. Many adherents refuse to accept the fact that the prosperity teaching is a gospel because it would bring out the truth to them that what they believe in is another gospel. The easiest litmus test of this gospel is to compare it with the gospel in the New Testament. I have argued in other places on this forum that the gospel God would have the church propagate is the gospel of grace. This gospel was preached primarily by Paul the Apostle, while Jesus and the other apostles testified to it. Jesus did not preach the gospel of grace exclusively (and that is why I think we should all give Shdemidemi the opportunity to explain to us the gospel of the Kingdom which he claims Jesus preached) because he was born under the law and was subject to the law. He however lent credence to this gospel of grace in many instances when he made it clear that man was not made for the law; but the law was made for man – and so the Pharisees preoccupation with the letter of the law and refusing to submit to the Spirit of it was in direct conflict with God’s will. So we must compare the WOF teaching or the prosperity gospel with the gospel of grace to know whether it really is a gospel we should believe or another gospel that Paul said the church was ever in danger of being infiltrated with.

In spite of what I have written, my Pastor here in Ibadan, Pastor Sola Kolade of the Vine Branch Church, Mokola, is a Hagin disciple. But his story is worth hearing. Pastor Sola started ministering after graduating in Kano and he said he preached mostly Faith, following Hagin of course. He told us that one day he felt God told him that the bible contains much more than faith and that he was to teach the whole counsel of God. From that day he began to teach everything the bible teaches but he still teaches faith when he is led to. My point: a definition of heresy is making something major that the bible does not. Paul said in the end we will have Faith, Hope and Love; but the greatest of them is Love. The WOF will have us believe the greatest is Faith. I still attend the church but I continually find myself in conflict with the practices and doctrine there because when Faith is believed and taught the way Hagin does, it would lead inevitably to men setting their hearts on things below instead of above as Paul calls us to in Colosians 3:1. As for why I have not left the church – well, I am trusting God for his leading on that.

I am not an authority in preaching against Hagin; I just don’t read his works or care much about his life and ministry because of all I see around me. The excesses of so many Nigerian pastors can be traced directly to this same Hagin man and it is very distressing to behold. However, there are others who have written volumes on the WOF movement that we can find their works to read; I will endeavor to find some of these literatures and post them here. But to respond to Bidam query that do I have a ministry of condemnation; i say I don’t. However, a balanced reading of the New Testament will reveal that God will have us to both propagate his gospel and to preserve it: propagate it to the unbelieving and to build the church. Also, to preserve it from heresies and errors. Any man of God who is worth his salt that does not do both is probably guilty of one of them. So I hear some say we should not criticize these men (one even said we would not last two years – nonsense). Truth is if you are sure of the gospel you are propagating you would not be afraid of being held accountable via criticism; neither will you shy away from criticizing those you think are speaking contrary to it. The Nigerian church is in danger of being corrupted by two major heretical teachings: the prosperity gospel and the holiness movement. The former through their emphasis on the physical - blessings, health and wealth; the latter through their legalism. We must contend earnestly against all this for the truth that was once delivered to the saints of God (Jude 3).

Bidam: Good.@drummaboy are you up for this challenge?

I would not take up the challenge. I have better challenges to face on this forum: HAGIN IS NOT BIBLE AND THAT IS SUFFICIENT FOR ME.

He would do well to replace those Hagin books he has in his library with more reputable men of God's work over time.

I see Hagin disciples all over Christendom and the fruit they bear shows the rubbish they consume. Read scripture and find better Christian leaders to model ur life after.