₦airaland Forum

Pastor AIO:
statistically speaking how often should a dream come true before we can consider it significant?

I don't know. . . . . Actually it depends on what you call significant. . . .

Deep Sight:
^^^ Men! Mazaje, it was entirely comical seeing how desperate you were above to avoid answering Noetic's question! Haba, you cant be that afraid, surely. . . ?

Since when did rational debaters shy from EVEN hypothetical questions? Are hypothetical questions not the life-blood of analogy? ? ?

You running away from the question was even more comical because YOU yourelf have stated to me on this Forum that you have had dreams that came to pass as well. Now suddenly you state that you "personally consider it not to be true. . . !"

Lets at least always be straight-forward, even if it means conceding some points to the other party!

The truth is you can never rationalize predictive dreams as being the product of the brain only!

First of all. . .I do not deal with hypothetical situations because they are of no use in this discussion. . .I have had dreams that came to pass and I consider them to be a coincidence nothing more. . . so many people have had that experience regardless of their location, culture and religion, race etc. . . .Most people dream about what preoccupies their thoughts. . . I once had a dream where I lied to my step dad in the dream and he gave me money($3000). . . the next day. . .I went to him told him a lie, requested for the money and he gave me the money($3000). . . what has that got to do with the supernatural?. . . . It was just a coincidence and nothing more. . . . .

Abuzola:
'verily, it is of their falsehood that they say God has begotten ? And verily they are liars' Quran 37:151-152

And verily I tell you that mohammed and allah are liars. . . .

You want abuzola to go around explaining why apostacy or honor killing is wrong? . . . .You think allah cares about the girls death at all. . . .this allah Idol of the deserts is a culprit in child molestation because he did nothing when his beloved prophet married a 9 year old child. . . ,  But ITS followers praise IT every day calling IT great! Great in promoting child abuse, killing of the infidels and apostates. . .what a god. . . .

Nezan:
^^ On a more serious note mazaje, you need Jesus in your life. It can never be too late!

. . . . .You believe in the jesus story? Fine. . . . . . what you are not allowed to do is feel that every body needs to believe in the story too. . . .If you were born into a muslim family from zamraza state I know you will be all over me telling me how I need to accept the stories of the Koran. . . .

noetic15:
what u make of the question is largely irrelevant. . .just produce a simple answer. . , u are exhibiting pride. why are u afraid of revealing your ignorance?

I laugh in hausa . . . . what has pride got to do with this? You asked me a hypothetical question and now you are crying because I refuse to answer

maedan:
Ok @mazaje. To disagree is not a crime .

And thanks for the info and good for those Danish, Swedish, Finnish etc who don't believe in hell. But if they don't believe in God too then that's a different story. No one should base their faith/salvation on the fear of anything, certainly not of hell. I'm mainly indifferent to the issue of hell in any case. I do believe there's such a place but it's not the fear of it that makes me serve my God . Ok??

OK. . . . .

Lots of people make wild claims all the time,  . . . . . There is never a shortage of anecdotal stories just a shortage of verifiable evidence. . .All anecdotal evidence and claims are generally discarded because human beings are extremely unreliable. Even eye-witness claims have been shown to be almost useless sometimes. . . .the issue of juju is always hear say. . . . Maitasine is one of the greatest juju man that ever lived in northern Nigeria, he and his boys used to take turns displaying their ability to deflect bullets in front of the public. . . he was very much revered and has a lot of followers. . . when the bullet came from the gun of the Nigerian military he was taken down in no time. . . . All juju claims are frudulent. . . . .

maedan:
@mazaje I wonder why you're attacking everyone's replies, why can't you state your case and stop trying to argue with everybody/anybody? I don't need to defend my beliefs, I was simply answering the question. Think just how much more evil the world will be if there was no notion of hell, or if it didn't exist. Those that are already bad will be downright iniquitous. So one would need to be even closer to God in order to enjoy His Protection. And that's what I meant.

Let me list the names of countries where over 80 percent of the people do not believe in hell. . . .

Denmark
Sweden
Fınland
Japan
Norway
Cezech Republic

Majority of the people living in these countries do not believe in hell yet the are FAR better and live better moral lives that people in Pakistan and Nigeria where over 90 percent of them believe in the concept of hell. . . . .By the way I am not attacking your post. . . .I am only disagreeing with your submissions. . . . . .

noetic15:
there is nothing in my post that suggests a claim that requires an evidence. all thats in there is a simple question.
do u have an answer? . . . . .its ok to say "I DONT KNOW" , . , . , ignorance is allowed I laugh in italian

I aksed you a simple question. . . . is your anectdote a hypothetical senario or not?

Godmother:
I would still respect and fear God, but all those things I have been denying myself of doing will become instant access.

Are you trying to say that you live a moral life only because of the fear of hell?

Abuzola:
Hahahaha see noetic in a confused manner

'As for those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers' Quran 3:56

I do not believe in allah in fact I mock him all the time and I do not see him punishing me with severe torment in this world. . . . .are you sure the koran is not lying to you?

noetic15:
and what is your answer to my questions?

You want me to answer some hypothetical questions that I personally consider not to be true? All anecdotal evidence and claims are generally discarded because human beings are extremely unreliable, . . . Even eye-witness claims have been shown to be almost useless in some cases.

noetic15:
your question is irrelevant. why not just answer the simple question?
how about saying. .  . . , "I DONT KNOW"  no one is going to crucify u for being ignorant 

Ignorant of what exactly?. . . . .Lots of people make wild claims all the time. There is never a shortage of anecdotal stories. . . . just a shortage of verifiable evidence.

noetic15:
really? 

Let me repeat my question here.

A man (lets say his name his mazzagee) had a dream, in that dream a white man (whom mazzagee had never met or seen before) with an irish accent walked up to him. the white dude asked him how he was, and gave him 20 pounds. the white dude was wearing a designer green suit from tommy hilfiger. Two days the dream came to pass as exactly dreamed.

If u claim that the brain generates dreams. . I ask u.
a. how did the brain form the image of the white dude?
b. how did the brain detect that the dude was white? how did the brain form the dude's irish accent?
c. how did the brain conceive that the dude was going to give mazzagee 20 pounds?
d. how did the brain figure out that the dude was going to be wearing a green tommy suit?

. . ,  . I await your answers with deep breadth

I asked you a very simple question and you ran away on the other thread. . . . . is this a hypothetical senario or what?

noetic15:
have I not exposed the ignorance of this assertion?

How? . . . .You only made baseless claims and when I asked you some simple questions you ran away. . . .

Deep Sight:
Neuroscience does no such thing Mazaje.

Neuro science shows us the effects and visible impulses within the brain of the impressions that the brain receives.

Neuro science explains behavior in terms of the activities of the brain and the nervous system. . . . . .

If Neuroscience controls such impulses, then you would fall in love with every beautiful woman you set eyes on, as the brain would set to work and "create" the feeling for you.

Learn to read. . . .how does neuro science control anything? The brian controls impulses and all emotions and it has been empirically demonstarted to be true. . . . .if you have any evidence to show that there is any part of the body besides the brian that controls emotion feel free to bring it on. . . .

Get real Mazaje.

Really? And unconscious persons have not been known to have dreams in which they experience powerful emotions?

Seriously, Mazaje.

No - Seriously now.

Hope you know that the braın controls our ability to dream. . . . . dreams are controlled by the brain. . .

Deep Sight:
^^^ Great, no problems with this, i agree with you.

My issue is you make points that suggest that you do not accept the existence of anything spiritual. For example you said there is no evidence that souls exist.

That's why i ask you about love. Is it the physical body that feels love?

If not, then what feels love, tell me.

Neuroscience has explained a lot about emotions like anger, love.,happiness and sadness. . . . all these things are controlled by the brian that is why a person who is unconcious can never experince or display any of these emotions. . .Love is the is an emotional feeling and is controlled by the brian. . . .The right hemisphere of the brain is the side that controls our emotions, creativity, and visual/spacial abilities. . .this hemisphere controls our artistic side, and our emotions, Our frontal lobe is the executive part of the brian. . . . It regulates impulse control and basic thought. Love is an emotion we feel, not something we can see or touch. It is purely emotional, the actions of love we can see. . .so love is an emotional feeling that is controlled by our brians and our consiousness feels it. . . .

@Deep Sight

I want to know exactly why you choose the Jewish/Christian god as evidence for your nameless god. . . .

Deep Sight:
Mazaje -

Is it your position that only physical things exist?

When have I ever said that?

If so, might i enquire if you have ever felt love.

If you have, is it a physical thing?

Does it exist?

And if it exists, in what part of your physical body does it exist?

Love is not a supernatural claim. . . and it is very different to all the god/supernatural claims we hear but never see all the time. . . Read a bit of anthropology and sociology. Nearly every culture has produced a religion or two throughout its history and in each case the "God" (or gods, usually) tend to like the same things the people like, and dislike/hate the things they hate. and the definition of god shifts and changes as the believers need it to. . . .People have always wanted some explanation for the things of the world that are frightening storms, natural disasters, famine, the death of tribe members and the early peoples built their pantheon of gods and stories to explain these things away. . . .this is the explanation for the thousands and thousands of "gods" that we have through out human history. . . . Feeling exist and it can be felt. . . .gods and supernatural claims only exist in the form of stories only.  . . .

Nezan:
I think I addressed this issue, if you have points to refute this, lets trash them out.

Fair enough. . .The time line and what immediately happened to paul is very different when you read about the accounts in the book of acts and in the book of galatians. . . .I still maintain that the two conversion stories of paul in the book of acts cancel each other out. . . .

Nezan:
When next you visit, try going to your village and you will be shocked to discover that witches are not myths, they are real and are just agents of the devil. I pray that Jesus will use this forum to open your eyes one day.

I have actually done that. . . .I once beat up the most revered juju man in my mum's village and he vowed that he will turn me into a forg and promised me that I will never ever return to europe aagain as long as he is alive. . .I have been in and out of Nigeria more than 20 times after he made that vow. . .juju, witches and wizards only exist in cultures that give the mythical beings power and infulence. . . there is absolutely NO evidence at all to show that witches exist. . . .I live in europe and the myth has been relegated to ancient historical books. . . .

Nezan:
Because it is a spirit, a bad one at that, that controls your thoughts to reject God with the ultimate aim of destroying your soul.

You are just making claims that have no basis in reality. . .I am not making a choice to disobey any god everyday. I simply chose to disbelieve all the stories you have provided as evidence for your god based on the FACT that they have no evidence at all and also based on the fact that some of the stories have been shown to be false. . .I actually do not have a soul because there is no evidence at all for it. . . .and we know that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. . . . 

If you want to believe in all your mythical claims fine but you have no right to castigate those that do not share your myths. . . .

Nezan:
Must you lie to distort the truth? Paul disclosed that he went to Jerusalem after 3 years. Thereafter he went preaching and visited Jerusalem again 14 years after he was preaching with Barnabbas.
In any case, there is no contradiction in the narration of Paul's conversion, the basic facts are:
1. Paul persecuted Christians.
2. Jesus (whom you deny) appeared to him and converted him.
3. He did not went to Jerusalem immediately.
4. He later went to Jerusalem.
5. He met with the Apostles before he began his ministry.

Both Luke and Paul's accounts follow this chronological order. No cause for alarm.

Did you read the link I posted and read the stories again in the bible to see the discrepancy?

Nezan:
I can tell you just one place were the mythical satan resides: in the heart of an atheists, though he makes his habitation all over the world because he is a spirit. Repent now and stop yielding your soul to the devil.

How does a thing such as the devil exist in the hearts of atheist? is the mythical devil a blood vessel? Is the devil one entity or is he uncountable entities? How does he take up residence in the hearts of people? . . . .The devil is a myth and that myth exist only in your imaginations because you have been conditioned to believe in it. . . Its ok to subscribe to your myths but castigating others because they do not share your mythical conceptions and stories is just ridiculous. . . .

Nezan:
@mazaje; I asked you a simple question: whether you believe in occults or not? are you not an African? you should have known that before coming of Christianity, our ancestors were into satanic worship and practices, even now, you see people engaging in witchcraft, or are you not in Africa? Point I am making is that it is not the Bible only that teaches about the existence of devil and God. Stop deluding yourself and confusing your mind thinking you are been intelligent, the devil wants to destroy your soul.

What makes you believe that our ancestors were into satanic worship? I find it absurd that you accept the mythical beliefs of another culture(Jews) but for some reason best known to you, you choose to discard your own mythologies as satanic worship . . . . I have asked you to provide ONE evidence to show that satan exist outside your imaginations and the pages of the bible and all you have done is continue to make claims that have no basis in reality. . . . . As for witches and wizards they are also myths that eixts in the african culture. . . I live in europe and such myths have now been relagated to the pages of the history books. . . .witches only exist in cultures that accept the myth. . . . .I have never claimed to be more intelligent than anybody here. . .why do you guys always feel the need to talk about intelligence when ever you are asked to substatiate your claims? What is a soul do you have any evidence to show that a soul exist let alone it being destroyed by this mythical devil you are yet to provide any evidence for his existence?

Abuzola:
@mazaje- God exist so desist from your illusion. If God doesn't exist how can things be in order ? Huh. The heaven/sky never collapse, etc

The generally Idea is that "God exists", yet you people can't describe exactly what that phrase means. What's god?  How does it exist? and since there are so many gods out there which of them exist? When ever I aks people to provide some evidence to show that their various gods exist outside there various religious text I'm greeted with either babbling dogmatic quotes that make no sense at all or smug silence.

So what has order got to do with the existence of the god you subscribe to? What about the  many disorder that we also see around(diseases, natural disasters etc) why do you not point to it as evidence for your own god? Do you have any evidece to show that allah exist outside the pages of the koran?

pinky lady:
.
and what will you do when at the end of everything all what you thought were stories actually came out to be true?

im not condeming you oh, but its always good to be on a safer side

If the stories turn out to be true then I will be happy with my position and accept the consequences. . . .But I KNOW the stories are false because some of them have been proven to be false. . . . . .I find it incredible that many religious spend so much time trying to prove a god by using ancient stories that have no basis in reality. . . .

jagunlabi:
LOL! @ christian heaven.If heaven is going to be divided into various sectors based on all the religions and the thousands of subsections within these religions,then the afterlife is going to be damn chaotic and confusing for all concerned,with nobody knowing where they belong.  

Dey there. . . . Me I will like the islamic version of heaven because of the heavenly virgins and the rivers of wine. . . .

jagunlabi:
Mazi,deepsight is not even in this thread yet.I guess you meant noetic.

Deepsight believe people that do not believe in the christian stories will go to the christian heaven when the bible says otherwise. . . .

DeepSight why do you keep behaving like this . . . . The bible is VERY CLEAR Jesus is the ONLY way to god according to its teachings period. . . .Any body that says otherwise is lying period. . . .I find it funny because you claim not to believe in christianity but you want to go to their heaven. . . . .I laugh in hausa. . . . . . . . Since you believe in the christian heaven and want to be a part of it why not just convert to christianity because according to the christian hypothesis only those that believe in their stories will go there. . . .

Abuzola:
The truth has come to light,

What truth are you talking about? The truth that mohammed is a plagiarist and a pedophile?

Nezan:
Bring out the contradictions let us trash them here.

Compare Acts with Galatians and you'll see that Paul and Luke completely disagree about events in Paul's life. . . . .The immediate aftermath of Paul's conversion is differently described by Paul and Luke. Luke says that Paul is taken in by the Christian community in Damascus, but is quickly in danger from his former colleagues, who resent his conversion to Christianity. So he flees to Jerusalem where, not unnaturally, he is treated with considerable suspicion by the Jerusalem Christians, who know him only too well as an anti-Christian murdering thug and take some convincing that the leopard has really changed its spots. But he wins them round, and shortly after that, Acts begins to chronicle his missionary activities.

Paul, on the other hand, writes about a much lengthier process. In Galatians 1, he says that after his conversion he went away into Arabia, spent some time in Damascus, and didn't go back to Jerusalem for three years. He says it took another 14 years for a full realisation of his calling to form and to be shared with the leaders of the Jerusalem church.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/jan/05/christianity-acts-apostles


As for the 2 different conversoin stories in the book of acts I wıll like you to tell me what really happened because the two different accounts cancel each other out. . . . .