₦airaland Forum

JackBizzle:
Haha!! I'm so happy!

A post on the front page has been gathering lots of talks which question religion- https://www.nairaland.com/2839476/religion-killed-rational-thinking-country

The front page thread is about a professor who states that religion has killed rational thinking in Nigeria! And it has about 90% of the people agreeing with the prof!!!

I saw it this morning as I was getting ready to go to church the beach. Nice to see so many people speaking about their doubts and frustrations with religion and the church. But the same old religious BS arguments are there as well.

ArcIbrahim38:
The original covenant letter is now in the Topkapi Museum in Instanbul, Turkey.

You can visit and see for yourself

So it does not appear in any hadith? How do we know it's not a fake?

ArcIbrahim38:
LETTER OF COVENANT WRITTEN BY PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH) TO ALL CHRISTIANS.
“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily, I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the World) .

Please provide a hadith (grade sahih) so I can take a look myself.

There are a couple of other reasons for the crusades, neither of them religious. In those days in Europe there were many young landless noblemen who had nothing else to do but to fight each other, kind of like gang warfare, over large parts of Europe. Many thousands of people were killed as these gangs of heavily armed young men killed each other and ransacked towns and farms. The Pope wanted to use the Crusades as a way of getting these young men out of Christian areas and channel their energy into fighting non-Christians. The appeal of the Byzantine Emperor for help fit neatly into this solution.

Were the Crusades defensive wars? Yes and no. Yes in the sense that they were helping the Byzantines against the slow encroachment on their land by Turks. No in the sense that the people in the Middle East didn't invite them in and weren't necessarily happy to see them. Byzantine rule had been very harsh before the arrival of the Arabs. The Crusade against the Albigensians in France and the Slavs in Eastern Europe were definitely offensive wars.

Another reason for the Crusades was to boost the Pope's political influence in Europe. If he could organize successful crusades then that would, in effect, make him a powerful political figure in addition to a religious figure.

sonOfLucifer:
So when the clay had caked, God exhaled and the clay inhaled. Thus, the heart began to beat and pump blood, through every vein and every artery. And he opened his eyes and saw no one before him. Only a voice. And the voice called him Adam..
.........

Before him, stood the most beautiful being he had ever seen. And God whispered in his ears, 'that's your 7th pack right there'.

The first birthday gift ever was a woman, born of rib.

What were the purpose of Adam's balls before Eve was created? Did he just mastur.bate?

KingEbukaNaija:
Oh dear .


Let me break it down for you

God is good

Unbelief in God implies being against good which automatically is accepting evil .

You are in a group perpetrating 'intellectual ' harm against the good people of God , you uphold misconceptions pernicious to a sound mind and spew them in a public forum . Plus Atheism is deception and deception is evil .


Taa dah ?

lol wut

Saying that God is good implies that he exists and that good is whatever he does. But there is no evidence for either.

What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Done.

JackBizzle:
99% of pictures posted by nairaland atheists on nairaland are actually copied from

-atheist groups
-humanist groups
-atheist subreddit on reddit


Bala, A Nigerian atheist was rescued from an Asylum prison by efforts of humanist organisations and atheism subreddit on reddit.

The most important advice I ever got from nairaland was from muskeeto, a Nairaland atheist on an atheist chatbox.



......and yet, people ask for the benefits of an atheist forum........


oh well.....

Exactly. Atheists coming together to be able to work collectively on exploring various issues, as well as taking action when needed, has proved very fruitful in recent years. Even though I've been atheist for a long time, hanging out on atheist forums has vastly increased my knowledge of how to deal with god-botherers when they bother me.

elhakiimed:
you must have read about estuary, and must have known they have different salinity towards the fresh water and towards the sea water creating barriers,however this barrier cannot be seen but are easily detected with equipments.

Historians such as Manfred Ullman and Franz
Rosenthal are skeptical about the material
referring to bin Kalada. They refer to him as a
legendary figure, which has literary allusions
to characters of fictitious creation. Professor
Gerald Hawting, in his essay The Development
of the Biography of al-Harith ibn Kalada and the
Relationship between Medicine and Islam,
writes:
“In these latter sources the information about
al-Harith is fragmentary, references to his
profession as a doctor are not consistent and,
where they occur, tend to be incidental, and
there seems to be little information about the
nature of his medicine or detail about his
life.”

For more details please refer to Khalid al-
Khazaraji’s and Elias Kareem’s essay Was al-
Harith bin Kaladah the Source of the Prophet’s
Medical Knowledge.”

Read the essay already. Of course much of it is speculation, as are the hadiths. However, this represents the strong possibility that there were educated people who traveled or who lived in the area. I cannot assume that everyone around Muhammad were ignorant bedouins, as it clearly was not the case. There were well-traveled people who were familiar with aspects of Byzantine and Persian culture. I have to conclude that Muhammad's info about science came from other people.

Allah-majestic glorious does not frustrate the effort of anyone, disbelieve may not start in a day,it must have lingered in the heart for sometime.
Our destiny is written by God,the lifespan,wealth status,etc. in womb,Allah has all knowledge of our capability,and in his knowledge he knows the end before we even begin. But we are limited in seeing,hearing ,and even thinking.

What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence ~ Christopher Hitchens

elhakiimed:
1 . In Islam we don't appreciate narrations without reference, you should please mention the name of the physician friend and reference where you got that from.
The prophet (peace be upon him) at moment of receiving revelations he used to have a scribe, that is why some Quran verse have phrases like "say (o Muhammad)" he can't read or write, but if you insist bring your evidence.

His name is al-Harith bin Kaladah.

Quran Surah fussilat :12 mentioned lowest heavens not atmosphere.
"And We adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps (stars) to be an adornment as well as to guard (from the devils by using them as missiles against the devils). Such is the Decree of Him the All-Mighty, the All-Knower."

Ok well then which verse are you referring to when talking about the atmosphere? I've seen claims that the seven heavens refer to the layers of the atmosphere.
And as you know the stars are not used to throw at devils. Meteorites are much different than stars and are random rocks that burn up in the earth's atmosphere.

I strongly recommend you do the experiment in your kitchen with salt water and ordinary,add different food colouring to each and see for yourself...and i can go on refutting your claim about the science of quran.

Put them side by side and they will mix. In addition, if salt and fresh water do not mix, then why are there not vast pools of freshwater that have built up over thousands of years as rivers drain into the oceans?

2. What God wrote in the book of destiny was as a result of his knowledge of our individual weaknesses and strenght ,just like a teacher knows who will come first and last because of his assessment of student at beginning of semester,although this can not be compared to the kind of knowledge of God.

There is a hadith which says that you can spend your entire life doing good things, but then at the very end your destiny will take over and you will do something that will send you to hell. And that the opposite is also true. And there is nothing you can do about it. In addition another hadith states that your destiny is written while still in the womb and that includes whether or not you will go to heaven or hell.

elhakiimed:
1) The muslim prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was an illiterate at the time he received first revelation, he lived among people who enjoy poetry and not much of science.How possible could he have gathered knowledge from Greek scientist when he couldn't even read Arabic, not to talk of Greek.

Illiterate does not mean unintelligent. In addition, Muhammad worked as a trader until sometime in his 40s. He would have met many people from many lands, including some who were well educated. Evidently one of his friends was a trained physician. Don't forget that he lived on the edge of two very advanced civilizations (Persian and Byzantine) from which this knowledge came. People who are illiterate often have very good memories for information to make up for the fact that they can't store this information in writing form.

In addition, there is at least one sahih hadith which supports the claim that he could read and write (when he asked for a pen and writing material to write something down).

Even if for the sake of argument we agree he heard it from somewhere, did he also hear the other things,how did he manage to know which one is accurate ,despite the different school of thought that may have existed? He mentioned barrier between seas,uniqueness of fingerprint,spot on brain for lie and deceit, levels of atmospheres,position for human memory,e.t.c?

There is no barrier between any seas. Salt and fresh water mix, though differences in salinity and temperature can cause a brief layering which makes it seem like they don't mix, but they do (yes I've seen that picture from Alaska and that's what I'm talking about.)

Levels of atmospheres? Seven layers, right? But then why does the Quran say that the stars are in the closest layer? Wrong.

And any fool can see that fingerprints are all different.

etc.

2) Muslims believe in qadr(predestination) that there is nothing Allah does except that it was writing to be so, and it is perfect if only we know, everybody has a brand of their own test of faith ,and to some it is loss of wealth,and others disability. An inventor can do whatever he feels about his invention because he knows it best, and answer to no one in his majesty.

If everything is predestined then there is no test, since you are going to do just what you were destined to do. And your lovely Allah is going to put you in hell for doing what he programmed you to do.

For me, the only real way to prove which religion is true would be to visit heaven and hell and see which religion has the most followers in either place. That would be direct and incontrovertible evidence.

However, since I can't do that, I conclude that no religion can be said to be the one true religion, or even that there is a heaven or a hell, or even a god.

tartar9:
but today is not my birthday

You are signed in with the wrong account. Everyone already knows that johnnydon22 = tartar9

Christianity is a temporary condition. Soon education will put an end to it and all tongues will confess that religions are just the creation of humans.

elhakiimed:
Dr. Naik is not a scholar but his teachings are scholarly endorsed and prompted.
I don't think that statement is not hypocritical. Anyways, since you said " to you " it seems there are error, I am not very bothered.
The Quran gave accurate account of what happens in child formation in pregnancy and you call that fortune telling.

The Quran mentioned how God perfected us to the very tip of our fingers over 1400 years ago ?

Surah Al-Qiyama, Verse 4:
Yes, We are Able to put together in perfect order the tips of his fingers.

and so many more signs.

1) The Quran's account of child development in the womb basically follows that outlined by the Greek physician Galen several hundred years earlier. Even then, the bones are not formed before they are covered with flesh, as the Quran mistakenly says. In addition, it contains no information that ancient peoples themselves could not have seen as a result of witnessing miscarriages at various stages of development.

2) We are not perfect. Many of us have various genetic mutations and sometimes obvious deformities. There are retarded people and there are people missing body parts or who are blind or deaf or dumb. Sometimes children get cancer and die. Not very perfect if you ask me.

elhakiimed:
it is obvious how much time you spend misreading if you still think the Muslims worship a "sky god"

Download this book "Quran and Modern science" : Dr Zakir Naik and let's see if you dare call yourself atheist (or agnostic) afterwards.
good bro.

Be aware that Naik is not considered any kind of qualified religious scholar by the most respected Islamic institutions.

The Quran contains no science that I can accept. It's mostly vague verses that lend themselves to various selective interpretations, including some that seem to be errors to me. Horoscopes and fortune tellers work the same way.

elhakiimed:
And yet they say: “There is nothing beyond our life in this world. We die as we come to life, and nothing but time destroys us.” But of this they have no knowledge whatever: they do nothing but guess.
(Quran : Surah Al-Jathiya ,Verse 24)

7. English philosopher Professor Anthony Flew
He led the global atheist movement for more than half a century. After turning eighty ,he published his 'spiritual autobiography,'There is a God:How the world's most notorious Athiest changed his mind.', in which he states that he declared his believe based on cogent evidence.

6. Charles Darwin
He writes in his book *ON THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES*
"Another source of conviction in the existence of God,connected with reason and not with the feelings, impresses me as having much more wieght.This follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful unoverse, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and as far into futurity,as the result of blind chance and necessity...I deserved to be called a Theist."

5. Richard Dawkins,
The world most notorious atheist.
He admitted he did know everything,and threfore allowed the possibility that he was wrong.

to be continued...

Darwin never said he was an atheist; rather he said he was agnostic, and until the end of his life he maintained that religion was created by man.

Dawkins is still very much an atheist--I follow him on twitter, and he is very active in promoting a secular viewpoint; you can easily take a look for yourself.

Most atheists are actually agnostic, meaning that they admit they could be wrong, including myself, but see no reason to believe in any god, and certainly not the vicious sky god of the Middle East.

I've read the Quran, and as it admits, it is nothing but stories of the ancients.

x123xlolls:
Any evidence bro? or are you just saying?

But islam does not support killing any living soul, because of this verse:

“On that account: We ordained for the
Children of Israel that if any one slew a
person - unless it be for murder or for
spreading mischief in the land - it would be
as if he slew the whole people: and if any
one saved a life, it would be as if he saved
the life of the whole people. Then although
there came to them Our apostles with clear
signs, yet, even after that, many of them
continued to commit excesses in the
land.” ( 5:32 )

Three things:

1) This verse is addressed only to the Jews
2) This verse does permit people to be killed if they spread 'corruption on the earth'. Perhaps ISIS thinks that non-Muslims are spreading corruption on the earth and that justifies killing them.
3) This verse makes an unsubstantiated claim, namely, that God told the children of Israel. Note that no Jewish prophet ever said such a thing, nor does this appear in the Torah. It only appears in a commentary written by a Jewish religious scholar, who did not claim to be receiving a message from any god.

stellytwinkle:
I'm tired of life nairalanders. I need a genuine prophet contact and address who can look into the future and tell me what's the problem in my life and solutions to them. I'm writing in despair and disappointment

The problem in your life is that you are looking to 'prophets' and other mystical mumbo jumbo for help, and the solution is to ignore this nonsense and deal directly with reality.

lol I've already booked my one-way ticket and reserved a space in the Hotel Hell, since I don't even really believe Jesus existed, and if he did he wasn't what the Bible say he was. Oh well, many of my friends and people I admire will be there as well.

As an atheist, I can say that Trump is a dangerous fascist who is little different from the radical Islamists that he opposes.

I love music and will never stop listening to it, Allah be cursed, he doesn't exist anyway.

bashbabe2:
Yet they leave thier Bible filled with more hatred and violence to criticise the Quran,. They quote the verses literally without knowing the reasons for revelation. You can't read and understand most verses of Quran without reading the tafsir that goes with it. this is what all the terrorist organisations do, they quote out of context and claim to be following the book that preached against that which they do.

Just be aware that the tafsirs often endorse the violent aspects of the verses of the Quran.

Whether or not faith or reason survive is something that I do not have control over. However, as an atheist, any appeal to faith seems to have no basis. If someone says that they have perfect faith that the sun will rise in the west and set in the east the next day, how do you tell them to stay strong in their faith without laughing?

The professor is forgetting that many things which used to be explained by religious reasons now have a scientific reasons, whereas there is nothing which was formerly explained by reason that is now explained by faith. The God-did-it box is getting smaller and smaller.

Faith is a delusion.

Tonyreal49:
Matthew 2-13

And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

We all know ancient Egyptian where BLACK b4 d African slave trade, how can a white baby hide among black pple?

According to the Bible, Jesus was born in Nazareth to local residents. Nazareth is in northern Israel. He probably would have looked arab. Taking him into Egypt would not have turned him black any more than a white man would turn black at the arrivals hall at Lagos airport!

Also, Herod would have had no authority in Egypt, thus, no way of getting him. Plus with such a large population in Egypt, Herod with his tiny force would not have had the manpower to find him.

In addition, by this time, Egypt was racially mixed, with multiple migrations from the Mediterranean basin. Many Greeks lived in Egypt.

Atheists are not robots. Humans are irrational by nature. No surprise that atheists can be irrational or emotional. But it does not mean that I believe in any god.

cybaj09:
I think thid will answer your question

The Noble Quran 60:8

Allah does not forbid that you be kind and just to those who did not fight against you on account of religion, nor drove you out of your homes. Surely Allah loves those who are equitable.

The Noble Quran 60:8

Allah only forbids you to be friends with those who have fought against you on account of religion and who have driven you out of your homes and have abetted in your expulsion. And any who make friends with them, they are the wrong-doers.[/color][color=#006600]

O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. Quran 5:51

Your 'spiritual wife' is a product of your imagination. If you don't believe you have a spiritual wife then you will not have one. Save your money.

Atheist here. Black Friday simply describes the Friday after Thanksgiving in the United States, which is always in the late part of November. It's traditionally the biggest shopping day of the year, when retail businesses are 'in the black', that is, profitable, as opposed to 'in the red', which means not profitable.

Teempakguy:
Just don't rub it in my face.

once i Know you are gay, never mention it to me again. let it be an unspoken knowledge. the end


if you can follow this simple rule, i won't report you to the police and have your ass jailed for fourteen years.

Just a question, does the law really work like that? Just file a claim with the police saying that someone admitted to being gay and they go off to jail? Sound like it's ripe for abuse.

The thing that is particularly dangerous about Islam and Christianity is that they each claim exclusive truth; that is, they are the only way to 'god'. That means that they often lead to their followers to attempt to force people to convert and obey, unlike virtually any other religion on the earth.

If we could get away from this evil idea that any one religion has exclusive truth, then we might see less religious conflict.

Atheist here as well, I wouldn't treat you any different from anyone else. What you do in bed is not my concern.

Dapo777:
Ohhh ok. I tot it was compulsory for someone to swear

You can tell them this: "But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King." ~Jesus, in Matthew 5:34-5

The Quakers (a Christian sect) follow this teaching and will not swear by god or on a Bible.

I am atheist as well.