₦airaland Forum

MetaPhysical:
That's it, these people don't care for truth. They seek popularism and applause.

applause? popularism? on a faceless forum? is that an achievement in life?
you must think I have a pathetic life and use nairaland to seek relevance

ironic isn't it? you are the one taking to the Internet writing all sorts of "invented history" and I'm the one asking for evidence, yet I'm the one not after truth?
would I ask for evidence if I'm not after truth? would I spend all this time quoting you if I'm not after truth? since you hold this truth, why not unleash the power of truth and shame me by providing the evidence...but first reply my previous posts to you. .

OPCNAIRALAND:
I think you are mixing me up with prexios and metaphysical. Dude this is OPC. From onset i told you i am no expert on Egyptology and all those stuffs but i find it fascinating and interested in hearing, reading and knowing more of it.

Also, i believe you are fighting shadows in ypur opinion or perception that people reject Ife as the origin of Yoruba. Anyone that subscribe to Oduyoye must align with his argument that the Abrahamic faith sprouted from African beliefs....particularly Orisa and the idea of sacredness -Haram - where the principal cognate is Orunmila. In other words, Haram, Harem, Herem, Horum all derived from the idea of sacredness enshrined in Orunmila. So where is the root of Orunmila? Whrre is the argument on Yoruba root? If I say Orunmila travrlled to Arabia, to Jerusalem, to New York, to Hong Kong or to Afghanistan, does that deny his Yorubaness?

Just for the benefit of doubt im going to help you out and announce for anyone who doubt Ife as the origin of Yoruba to step up and declare and own up to , their theory of an alternative origin for Yoruba..

.like I said before but I'll put it in a less pristine form, you are more of the idea that Yoruba culture colonized and covered west Asia than the origin of yoruba culture. ..correct me if I'm wrong
it's now up to you to provide the evidence

;-\ again with the Haram, Orunmila thing
ok, apart from reading it online and believing without question. .what makes Orunmila and Haram cognates? Pls enlighten me

ok but if you say Orunmila travelled to all those places, when asked why you think this or challenged for to provide evidence...is the next point of call to take offence and insult or to answer a simple question?


2prexios is the guy you should ask, cus he has always maintained hebrew origin for yorubas

OPCNAIRALAND:
Hey metaphysical,
What is your theory about the whole issue of Yoruba origin and why do you believe in the AfroAsia claim of Yoruba origin?

I think macof is afraid of Arabs and Jews and believes any mention of Yoruba in connection with these cultures is sactilege. Please enlighten him.

by metaphysical 's reply to this, I saw no claims of yoruba being an Afroasiatic language but rather a possible yoruba origin for Afroasiatic and Indo-European languages


again I ask, what has fear got to do with this? I also disagree with people bringing forth claims of Yoruba - Egypt connection, so where is this idea that I something against arabs and jews coming from? Egyptian culture in fact holds more Elements present in Yoruba culture than arabs and hebrews.
oh yes enlighten me if you can. .doing so with this evidence I so desire
I don't buy into pseudohistory and pseudolinguistics

MetaPhysical:
I don't think you've been here long enough to appreciate the mindsets you are dealing with on Yoruba origin.

One of the most valuable commodities in the history of mankind is crude oil. These are decomposed wastes from organisms that at one time had life. This is testimony to the principle of time and energy. A living energy today will perish tomorrow and transform next day into a new form of energy usable to sustain a life which in its own turn will perish, transform and sustain another life that is destined to go through same cycle.

Out of this scientific cycle there is cultural wisdom. Those who have passed on....ancestors, are sustainers of the living. In other words, life is dynamic! Energy is dynamic! Recycling, or reincarnation, is dynamic!

Why should the people of Ife, the cradle of life, be STATIC, and not experience life in its dynamism

My own theory is similar to Dr Oduyoye's. I can never compare myself to him in scholarship and expertise but I have my own niche for unraveling mysteries. It started with the scriptures and I soon started to notice commonalities in Genesis and Yoruba cosmogeny. The deeper I dug the more meanings threw itself at me. I had no idea who Dr Oduyoye was. There were two other regular contributors here back then, my brother amor4ce and tony. One of them introduced Dr Oduyoye here, and the moment I read his brief I fell in love with his works.

Let me cut short, go through my past posts and threads and you will understand what my theories are.

We worship Olokun, the deity of the ocean but the word ocean came from probably Latin, Roman language. We have known Olokun before we knew the word Ocean.

Now look at this... Ocean = Ocun = Okun
So who was the originator, was it Yoruba or Latin?
Who learnt the name from the other?


In fact, Ocean = Ocun = Osun
Similar to Oracle = Orica = Orisa


These ideas are provocative and bring out the curiosity in those seeking truth in the dynamism of life.

By the way, could Life itself be a derivative of L'Ife.....as in primordial beginning of mankind? If the theory holds, then words like Eve, Love, Live, Nineveh....are all ideals principal to Ile Ife. We cannot therefore argue against the primordial beginning of mankind or of Yoruba in Ile Ife. But how did Eve end up in Eden, how did Eden end up in Afroasia, how did Nineveh end up in Babylonia?


We are on a quest to connect the dots for places where Yoruba had footprints. People are afraid that our quest is to donate Ife brginning to the Arab or the Jew....these people are crazy!

good, now you have made this clear. If I'm to conclude and summarize this long epistle:
you're saying Yoruba origins isn't from Arabs or Hebrews
You're saying Yoruba culture influenced the cultures of euroasia

I'm I right?

lawani:
The God for Yoruba is Olodumare.That is the name.

Yes but I asked what is the word for "God" ? not name of God

OPCNAIRALAND:
You are not a good advocate for the "Yoruba origin is Ife" claim. Your intention may be honest, your knowledge may be grounded but your style of teaching that origin is a turn off for people like me interested in learning.

I am yet to see or hear anyone suggest that Yoruba originated in Afroasia or Eurasia. I believe what people are saying is THE TIMELINE OF AFROASIA INCLUDES ANCIENT YORUBA AND COINCIDES WITH ANCIENT HEBREW.

Anyway, Deacon or not, Mr or not, Doctor or not, I am loving what Modupe Oduyoye is preaching. To turn me to Isese you should bring their teachings here and share.

Im not advocating what is different from the popular belief. .it is what every Yoruba man will tell you
ask anybody who knows just a little about yoruba nation, they'll tell you Ife is the spirit and cradle of yoruba identity
this isn't my invention, I won't get rich off you believing Ife is yoruba origin because it's not my idea. .just learning history is excitement enough for me... that's why I have no intentions of writing or inventing history.

what you are interested in is seeing yoruba have widely spread Wings across continents. we have in the Americas, Asia? . .. sure exciting but is it true?
I don't know. .but you claim to know? so why not provide the evidence. . Its a big deal what you are trying to do. it's the origin of over 50 million people in Togo, Benin and nigeria. ..its no child's play and it demands strong evidence



the timeline of euroasia includes yoruba but yoruba didn't originate from euroasia? explain



ah! see that's where you err, you talk like you don't know the power of religion over an individual. .I've been there. .it drives a man nuts. .in a bid to attach yourself to where your religion came from you will do anything. a deacon cannot tell yoruba culture better than the likes of Oloja Iranje, Araba Agbaye, Araba Osogbo, Awise Awo, etc

I share as much as I consider appropriate, I don't share every knowledge I obtain on nairaland for many reasons...one being the lack of confirmation that I hold the truth. ..so I don't make claims

I told you before and I'm saying it again; be careful what you read online

lawani:
I understand you. God is everywhere. God is everything. All those are true but if you say Orisa, Eegun and etc are God, then Olodumare is something higher than God. Olodumare is the Supreme being who does nothing himself (Iba o!). We should reject the classification of our orisas, eegun and etc as Gods because we know only Olodumare as God. It is the Christians and Muslims that trivialized our God concept in Yoruba land. Our ancestors never saw Olodumare, Eegun and orisa as thesame things.

sorry but what is the yoruba word for "God"

9jacrip - my Ife brother has been brilliant, a yoruba man who can tell history from sprituality so easily

goosebaba - my Urhobo brother, for his intelligent and funny posts

Wulfruna - ok, I don't know what part of the world she's from but she's a sister that proves that women are strong and intelligent.

Amusaopeyemi:
Born2fuckpussy - His "I am Born2fucq not Born2Boink" got me big time. Lol.

Pagan9ja and Macof - They are super smart.

Joanana - Cuz she's so cute.

Aribs - He followed me and I followed back (he's kinda intelligent sha)

awwwn... lovely compliment Opeyemi
I appreciate it.

You're beautiful

It's only lagos that has considerable degree of power supply...but not 23 hours...today I've had less than 16 hours. that op is a minion of lie Mohammed

this harmattan season is nothing compared to the raining season. .one time then, we had 24 straight hours of power, just one time

2prexios:
I don't think your head is working fine, sorry to say. The reason is, can't you share the crust of your unhappiness without calling for help?

Aren't you thoughtful? Are you anyway conjoined to macof like a siamese? You are looking for supporters club abi?

You have low intelligence hence you must lean on bully like that to make a point. Those calling him are below him, they fear him because of his ways.

You will always look up to him to reprimand nairaland, for you to be happy and thats good for you. Hurray.

I don't chase people who are below me in wit, such as the subtle macof. I give them assignment.

You want to know why Africa lag behind and struggles as a continent? Many folks says 'shut up, who are you' to the unfolding knowledge of one another for very many silly reasons.

At this junction man, don't bring your complex issues to my thread, stop being halfwit, tell the world your side of the story.

pity is for a given, but jealousy you have to earn. Take a cue from your masters, don't shut down a school of thought for an agnostic pride. Let people think.

Their thinking does not rob you of your pride, if it enlighten their spirit. Except yours is a pride of darkness that should not be seen in the light.

Present your worldview as if it will become a branch of knowledge in time to come, enrich your blank soul in others knowledge that elude you.

Stop fighting knowledge with empty pride. Present your knowledge free of silly 'comrademanship'.

such comedy

macof is a bully
macof is below me.. even going as far as insulting pabloafricanus for calling you out. you don't want people to question you, everybody must shove your shit down his throat.

why all this nonsense? pabloafricanus asked simple questions that will make all yoruba people believe you and opcnairaland that Abraham is the father of Yorubas. you want to tell me my origins don't you? so I can't ask questions and challenge you over my own origins? I should just accept what ever you say? what my father never told me

and you call me a bully


if you really have linguistic and cultural features shared between Yoruba and Hebrews strong enough to suggest hebrew origin for yorubas ...please present it..I'm begging you, show me that I'm beneath you by providing this evidence of hebrew origin..I want to know my origins. since according to you my ancestors were monotheist hebrews who formed the Torah. I want to be forever below you, just show me that Yorubas have nothing in common with Igbos, Edo, Urhobo, Igala etc but our family are Jews and our home Jerusalem. let's discuss hebrew culture and how yoruba culture was derived from it ..that way we can reclaim our ancestral land as God's chosen people



enough of all this emotional outcry... I know you are not a child but a grown man, so please act like one

I'm no Hebrew lap dog ok? unlike you I'm not sired by the hebrews or any foreign people for that matter..As much as I love the Chinese I have no business claiming my ancestors were the builders of the Great Wall. so if you have anything useful to do with your life do it and stop seeking to use "your Invented history" to gain some relevance...there are more decent self employed jobs which don't deal with pseudohistory

12inches1:
I dnt understand what you're saying either

let's simple really. . you have an hypothesis of Ogun river being named after orisa Ogun. . like Osun river is named after orisa Osun
but that's not the case
there's no controversy over the Ogun river. it's connected to Yemoja and not Ogun.

the Ogun river got that name from "gun" meaning "long" in english

OPCNAIRALAND:
I didnt know youvhad to be a linguist to show interest in Yoruba language and culture or to comment or ask for information from those that know.

If thats the case the Cubans and Puerto Ricans and Bahians should first get tutoring and be certified in linguistics before they can explore why they share similarities and cognates in culture and rites with Yoruba. Do you disagree?

A Deacon, Mr Ogunyoye...i forgot his first name, i think Modupe. who posesses credentials in all those fields you listed, plus more.....wrote a book, not mentioning various scholarship articles and appearances made by him, confirming your fears. Stop being afraid, no Arab can Islamize Yorubaland and no Hebrew can turn us into Jews. Even DNA research concludes that Yoruba has presence in Eurasia...

Are you more knowledgable than these researchers? Arr you more knowledgable than Mr Oduyoye? If you are please Id love to learn from your scholarship. Whats the name of your book?

Are you really showing interest in Yoruba language and culture or interest in Yoruba-Hebrew-Arab connection. . different things

cus when asked what culture and linguistic elements shared you won't have anything to say...you can try Making a list of the cultural and linguistic similarities let's see if there's anything strong enough to suggest hebrew origin for yorubas


well, Cubans and Bahians have a large degree of yoruba ancestry. .its on record that they are descended from Yoruba slaves taken to that part of the world. .
check this awesome Cuban twins out - Ibeyi
They retained the veneration of the Orisa
I wonder why yorubas lost knowledge of Yahweh

what did you call him? A deacon! like Olumide Lucas, Samuel Johnson. . christian workers who had no indepth knowledge of Yoruba identity. how many of them were actively involved with one orisa or the other? how many went to people involved?

I consider Isese practitioners in the best position to tell Yoruba traditions, Culture and history. ..they are after all the custodians and deep in the knowledge

can you please create a thread detailing some of his points


euroasian dna of 10,000 years ago? seriously? that's our connection with hebrews? I hope you know that the hebrew culture and language in all its forms didn't exist until 2000BC or less

lemme ask you where does Igbo, Edoid, Nupoid, Igala languages fit in if yoruba language is actually Afro-asiatic. what do you make of the already established connection between yorubas and her neighbors now that you believe yoruba aren't Congoid but Semetic?


I don't know if I'm more knowledgable than them, but I'm not a novice when it comes to Semetic traditions and I know there's nothing particularly identical to Yoruba traditions. ..this includes sprituality
writing a book is a big deal, you don't write for yourself but for all your potential readers. if you aren't in the position to discuss a topic as an authority pls don't. .neither should you believe without thought and confirmation, anything written in a book or on the Internet
that's why a town's history used to be reserved for the Oba to tell. ..
is Mr. deacon. Oduyoye in that position of authority to write an entire book on Yoruba origins. .
I blame the government anyway, there's no censorship, anybody just writes a book these days to have a sense of relevance

12inches1:
My hypothesis is that "Ogun" the river was named after "Ogun" the river. A great person/a lesser god. A saviour of the Yoruba people at a point in time. For example if he migrated at one point in time along "Ogun" the river and he was great there too, perhaps the people there named the river after him. However since they were not his yoruba dialect, they could not pronounce his name well.

but all this ur hypothesis is not needed. .there's no controversy over the Ogun river

debeey87:
Well bro...that doesn't reduce his status. He still remains the king of his people.

But it reduces the respect and relevance an Ooni or Obi of Onitsha should have
anyway, it's really not a surprise. .but that act needed to be called out

jasperkrekre:
Oromiyan was not the first son of Oduduwa. Okanbi was the first and the only son of Oduduwa. Oromiyan was one of the sons of Okanbi, meaning; Oromiyan was the grandson of Oduduwa. pls get ur facts right!

you find this in obsolete books
recent and better researched works on yoruba history don't regard any Okanbi as the only son of Oduduwa. It's believed that oduduwa had nothing less than 16 sons... With Oranmiyan being either the last son or son of his first son, Ogun

12inches1:
even igbo and hausa have similar world. in the ancient days, people migrated gradually particularly through rivers so words were eventually pronounced differently

You don't understand what he's saying

Ogun" the river is a different word from "Ogun" the Orisa
and Ogun river is actually connected to Yemoja nothing to do with orisa Ogun

this story only proves that olukere is the real ruler of Ikere ogoga is more of a prime minister taking up most administrative duties

the British not understanding the politics of Ikere must have elevated ogoga

lawani:
You can't say Akure is Ekiti because the Ijesha also claim them, so Akure is Akure. Not Ekiti if Ijesha is not Ekiti. Same is true for all those places you mentioned in Ondo, they are more of Ijesha because there is actually no unit as Ekiti because all the town hold themselves separate from others and speak related but different dialects. It is now that an Ekiti identity is being created in Nigeria.

If not for the incursion of the Benin empire and later Ibadan in Osogbo. Large parts of Ondo and Ekiti would have been Ijesha as they were in the past.

This is true. Ekiti used to be Ijesa in the past.. but it didn't take nigeria to create an Ekiti identity

ayoku777:
While his explanation might not be a definite proof of God, I get what he is trying to say.

The universe is the fabric of all things physical existence. The universe consists of space, time, matter and energy. It is the enclave of physical reality.

So if the universe has a beginning (according to the NASA diagram), it automatically means that there is another existence outside the physical existence (universe)

It means that there is something outside the universe (space, time, matter and energy); that pre-existed the universe (space, time, matter and energy); that created the universe (space, time, matter and energy); and controls the universe (space, time, matter and energy).

Something that pre-existed time, and doesn't dwell in time, but that created time and controls time. Same thing for space, matter and energy.

It means something exists out there outside physical reality. Something exists outside our universe (our space, time, matter and energy) where there should be "nothing". And that "nothing" is active and powerful enough to create the universe with its space, time, matter and energy.

It other words, outside the universe, outside our fabric of reality is an active, powerful and creative "nothing"

There is no scientific explanation for this other than the biblical definition of Elohim (God).

Its thought provoking actually, for those who need scientific objectivity to believe in God, or a God. But I don't even need scientific objectivity to believe in God.

Shalom.

How is bible and Elohim the better explanation for the universe? the bible that didnt know the sun doesn't revolve around the earth? or that the moon has light of its own

Image123:
Reduce the mumbo jumbo, who is the Creator you discovered? How and when did you discover yourself? Thanks for taking out time to indulge me. Why would anyone go around screaming?

lik I said, it's identity is being "the creator" ..this is not religion
you won't hear me give u a name. .

madness! it's common with Christians and muslims

Amelian:
Very wrong
Perverts in the name of Dads.
When he starts having sex with her , he will say shebi she is his daughter. And can show her love in anyway he seems it fit...smhh

What's wrong is completely wrong.. If my husband dares kiss my daughter at such age. He will understand what life is all about!

aren't you going too far with that sex talk?
Mexicans kiss eachother as a greeting. .even the bible says "give holy kisses". Judas kissed jesus in the bible
the image @op isn't a passionate kiss

anyway, non of my business

bobbito:
Motive or no motive, this is absolutely wrong. The kids will take it outside and start kissing fellow kids in the mouth. I have kids and i love them more than anything. I kiss them a lot and i do it on the cheek and not mouth to mouth. even when they want to kiss me back mouth to mouth, i correct them that it should be done on the cheek.

Actually kissing is kissing. mouth or leg. .don't matter

A kiss is the touch or pressing of one's lips against another person or an object

stop them from kissing ur cheeks now

Sommyangel:
this has got ntn to do with being africans..show love to ur kids pls,haven't u noticed that most nigerian kids find it awkward saying I love u to their parents..why?,cux there's no expression of love when they were small..I don't support acting all formal wth ur kids in the name of being africans

I agree with you. I've never seen any child say "I love you" to the parent. But he shouldn't have posted it sha. . this is nigeria where there's no "standard"; it's all Individual stuff these days. and as a celebrity he's actions are a big deal

people kiss babies that aren't even theirs. .I guess it's wrong too? but it's OK to French kiss that strange Girl?

OPCNAIRALAND:
Who made the tongues in which the language is spoken? God made it. Who owns the feelings from which the language find expression? The native speakers, right? But who gave instruction on where you belong by language type? Europeans, true?

The native speakers are making discoveries which can undo the codifications put in place by Europe. I don't think anything is wrong in that. Why are you afraid that it is connecting with Arab and Hebrew? So what if it does? In what ways are Arabs or Hebrews better than Yorubas? You are intimidated, simple!

so now yoruba, arabic, hebrew are of the same language group. are you a linguist? do you speak and write yoruba, arabic and hebrew? you will need to be a certified linguist and expert on hebrew and arabic philology to be taken seriously.

why not spend time on something resourceful and beneficial to the yoruba nation?
afraid? what has fear got to do with this? intimidated by what?

be careful what you read online.. . if you like take my advice if you don't suit urself

EnlightenedSoul:
Well, we watched it...

My mortal eyes almost fell asleep, I was so disappointed. All that hype for nothing

I'm not surprised. people expected too much from the movie
btw are you a star wars fan?

OPCNAIRALAND:
Alagba, i noticed even in other historicals on Yoruba the moment someone start talking about Yoruba outside Ile Ife you become agitated. What are you afraid of?

every single move to pit yorubas with arabs and hebrews have failed in areas of linguistics, oral traditions, Spirituality even our very dna
but Ife has been the answer
it doesn't take hebrews and arabs to make yorubas a great people

I've told you Hor'mila or Harum mila got nothing to do with orunmila. .if you say I have no sense to say that. .suit urself. . you won't be the first or last person to insult the yorubas in such unconscious way



your arrogant ignorance is much too irritating. . you have already declared urself a novice and ignorant on the matter. .on the other hand , I'm familiar with hebrew words, Culture and theology

Image123:
It's all about you. Your emotions are getting pretty much ahead of you. Why do you not love and fear your Creator? Who is your Creator, care to share?

lemme indulge you

relationship between one and his creator has absolutely nothing to do with emotions. this is not religion
when you discover yourself and the world around, you discover your Creator
it's only identity is being the "creator" ...like I said this is not religion where you run around screaming jehovah, jesus, allah like a mad man

Millerz:
Hi,

Seasons greetings to every one that reads this. This is actually the very first time I'm creating a thread

So, I want to use this medium to openly renounce my Christian faith. I've been a Christian since the day I was born. Maybe not fully devoted, but I spend quality time praying, fasting and reading the bible on my own. For the past 3yrs, i've experienced unimaginable pain, nothing has worked out for me, and my life seems to be going in circles. I've been praying to God, but havnt got results. Nothing appeals to me anymore. All I think about is suicide and I already got poison. My parents are the reason I haven't taken my life. They would be devastated cause I'm the last child. Money isn't the problem cuz I've tasted money that some working class people have never seen.

Before I joined NL, I never doubted God, but seeing all the hate and negative comments from NL atheists has made me question God. The pain in my heart is too much and I wonder why an omnipotent God would let me or anyone suffer. I dont know why God remembers everyone else but ignores me. For the past one week, I've not prayed because I figured why pray when it won't be answered. So yeah, I've officially dropped Christianity today.

Thanks for your time!!

My advice, this is not a good enough reason to renounce your christian faith.
I'm no christian but if this is all there is, then it's not good enough.
To leave a religion should be based on the realization of its fraud, the falsehood of it's doctrines and not suffering. . People of all religions suffer pain and disappointment

I know Christians especially only seek favour from their deity, but when you look at the principles of christianity, favors should be irrelevant.
Poverty and helplessness should be celebrated


Anyway, it's always good news to me when I hear africans dumping christianity

MetaPhysical:
Haram means something exclusive. It does not mean forbidden.

Do you speak arabic? Did you get this from an arabic - english dictionary?

agadez007:
i was raised in Lagos so i know all that

raised in the land of the people you hate around the people you hate
You see how useless you are?

Image123:
oh you don't love your Creator? What qualifies people for the prestigious position of advising you?

Again, this is not about me. but I'll say I'm just amused at how emotions get wrapped up into all this

Intellect and knowledge of self