₦airaland Forum

sonmvayina:
When did Isaiah make this prophecy?

Don't quote 53...because everyone know the suffering servant is Israel ..

Israel is not the suffering servant
Unlike the suffering servants that bear the sins of others Israel was punished for her sins not for others

Isaiah 42:24 Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The suffering servants was bruised for Israel's sin.
Therefore the righteous servant is not Israel.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Jeremiah 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.


Israel is the sheep that have gone astray while the righteous servants bear their sin.

So the question remains, who us this righteous servant?

AntiChristian:
Where was Jesus mentioned in the Isaiah prophecy?

The biblical narrative was tailored albeit unprofessionally to fit into those narratives of Isaiah!

But all still remain permutations!

Why are you running away? Then who is the servant of God who became the sacrifice for sin if not Jesus?

habsydiamond:
if a man comes for u as his marriage event planner and let shot his shots at u will u accept. If the event planner had rejected the wife won't have been where she is today..

The man is responsible for his actions.

Anti Christian don run

Hoodrat:
I am not gonna give you a pass on this the mere fact of you using the fake Hebrew language which has no significant connection to the ancient Hebrew . The original Israelites went into captivity, lost their identity lost their lands and their language and then in the process of times the kazarian took possession of their land and set themselves up as israeli -Jewish in order to whitewash history. You chosen such fake Hebrew shows who your allegiance is to. If it’s not in the bible let’s be mindful .

The Holy Ghost is the keeping of the Law according to �� John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. ( what will happen after the keeping of the commandments)
��John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
��John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, ( All things like what? To remember you are the biblical Israelite to repent and turn to God laws, to understand why your people went into slavery and why your people are under oppression till this day, to remember to keep the sabbath day, grow your beard, put fringes on your clothes, stop eating pork shrimps,lobsters and follow the commandments and rehearse the righteous act) and bring all things to your remembrance,( all things to your remembrance? Like the reason why your people were sold into slavery, why you are not in your homeland Jerusalem and why the whole world hate you and knowing this fact you repent from your sin according to 1kinhs8:45-49) whatsoever I have said unto you.

you don't know what you are saying read up about the history of the bible both old and new.
The old testament especially was well preserved, the scripture you quoted was a translation of the Hebrew Bible.

Hoodrat:
Will I ever get a answer to my questions because you have not yet answered what I asked you to prove. Or am I asking for too much ??

what question? The only one not answered is what the wings of angels represent.
It is clear from what wings are used for.

As for spirit .

Psalms 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Hebrew
He makes
עֹשֶׂ֣ה (‘ō·śeh)
Verb - Qal - Participle - masculine singular
Strong's 6213: To do, make

the winds
רוּח֑וֹת (rū·ḥō·wṯ)
Noun - common plural
Strong's 7307: Wind, breath, exhalation, life, anger, unsubstantiality, a region of the sky, spirit

Did you see the Hebrew translation of spirit is "wind"

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Jesus breath on them and told them to recieve the holy ghost.

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of [b]a rushing mighty wind,[/b]and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

AntiChristian:
You should tell me where Jesus is written as God's servant in that Isaiah verse!

No where was Jesus ever mentioned in the whole Old Testament! It's just your wild guess!

I am asking you who is the servant?
Atleast you agree that there is a servant of yahweh that will be a sacrifice for sin? You agree with Isaiah that without the sacrifice of this servant peoples sin can not be removed.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


Who is that righteous servant of God through whom sinners are justified?

Do you agree that servant of God is greater than all other servants?

Hoodrat:
Can i get a scriptural prove for your claim that angels dont have wings?? How about this Zecharia 5:9
Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind [was] in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.? You said the appearance of wings represent the swiftness in doing the will of God? what scripture and verses says that in the bible? I can agree with anything the bible says but not something made up from your own head. You are automatically calling the word of God a lie when the bible says the angels has wings

You also said the word spirit represent wind?? what chapter and verses in the bible says such ? I can agree with anything as long as it is scriptural but not what you made up. Please lets be mindful not to add or diminish the word of God. by the way the spirit is the WORD OF GOD[b] John 6:63 It is the spirt according to It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”[/b]

Go and check the Hebrew word for "spirit" and its literal meaning.

It's not about quoting the scriptures but rightly dividing the word.

Angels do appear as having wings and other times without wings in the bible.
Even God is decribe as having wings

Psalms 63:7 Because thou hast been my help, therefore in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice.

Psalms 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

It does not mean that God really has wings, the holy Spirit came upon Jesus as a dove it does not mean the holy Spirit is a dove.

Angels appear as men it does not mean they are really men.

The bible calls them ministering spirits.

Hoodrat:
Are you trying to say the bible was wrong concerning Prophets Ezekiel and his description of angels having a Color like burnished brass? What about lamentations of Jeremiah concerning the Color’s of the children of Israel been a dark skin people ? �� Lamentations 4:8 Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick.

Lamentation 4 vv 8 has nothing to do with Ezekiel vision of cherubim.
The visions of the cherubim is passing a message about the glory of God and his Judgment upon Israel, so the appearance of the cherubims is inline with their messages.
Angels do not really have wings as they don't need it but the appearance of the wings represents their swiftness in doing the will of God.

Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

The word spirit actually is interpreted as wind "ruach" it represent represent invisibility while the fire has to do with the fact that they are equipt to do whatever God's word command and are ever ready day and day to do God's word either in executing Judgment or otherwise.
It does not mean angels are really winds and fire.

Angel's are invisible , they only take the form that is suitable for their ministry.

AntiChristian:
Jesus was never a servant of God but God's son! He is God's son and God himself in Trinity so stop telling lies that God is a servant to himself!

Jesus is both God's servant and God's Son just a Son can work for his father and therefore be called his father's worker but however does not take away the fact that he is a Son.

You have not answered the question? Who is the servant of God that died for the sin of men?

Abdulgaffar22:
After the departure of Jesus (peace be upon him) from this world, a bright light from heaven that called himself Jesus of Nazareth flashed around a man called Paul (whose original name was Saul) on his way to Damascus;


"About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?’ Who are you, Lord?’ I asked. “ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ he replied. My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me (Acts 22:6-9)"



But did Paul (Saul) truly meet the original Jesus Christ (pbuh) on his way to Damascus ?


Let's consider the following points of evidence ;

1ST POINT OF EVIDENCE

Before Jesus (pbuh) left the surface of the earth, he forewarned the original apostles as follows:


"Take heed that no one deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying; I am the Christ; and shall deceive many (Matthew 24:4-5)…


“Then if anyone says here is Christ or there, do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you; Christ is out in the wilderness, do not go out; or Christ is in the inner rooms, do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, then the vultures will gather (Matthew 24:23-28)"

Did you not read where Jesus compare his coming like a lightening? That is by the way.
So where did Paul tell you that Christ has come in secret? Jesus appearing to Paul and Jesus coming to earth are 2 different things.

By the way that passage is talking about Jesus second coming.

[Please take note of how the phrase "if anyone (which means without exception)" is being used repeatedly by Jesus in the verses above.]


“Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them Luke 21:8-9).


Jesus said to them: “Watch out that no one deceives you. Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many (Mark 13:5-6)


In all the verses above, the disciples are commanded by Jesus(pbuh) not to believe in any account of a person who claim to have seen Jesus in a private manner prior to his universally-visible appearance to all.

No Jesus never told his disciples not to believe in anyone who claim they saw Jesus privately but not to believe anyone that says Jesus is in the secret.

Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Jesus(pbuh) was telling us that his returning to earth again from heaven will be clear and unmistakable to everyone. That is to say, Jesus will be visible to every eye from every corner of the world in the same way that lightning that comes from the east is visible to those in the West . The people would gather to see Jesus coming from the heaven just like vultures gather over the carcass. Hence, any private appearances of Jesus to anyone or to only a few set of people before this universally public appearance should be ignored and discarded

Jesus coming shall be visible to all not secret, however Paul vision of christ in heaven is not the same as christ coming to the earth in secret. I have addressed this already.
Seeing Christ in heaven is not Christ second coming.

Therefore, if Jesus’ private appearance to Paul in form of “a bright light from heaven" on his way to Damascus would be an exception to this great warning of not believing in private appearances of Christ, then Jesus (pbuh)should have foretold this exceptional event to the original apostles before he ascended to heaven. However, Jesus (pbuh) did not foretell anything like such.

Jesus only foretold his second coming to them because that was the question his disciples asked.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

2ND POINT OF EVIDENCE

Instead of foretelling to the original apostles that he would privately appear to someone like Paul in form of a bright light from heaven” before his universally-visible appearance to all, Jesus only informed them as follows;


"And he said unto them, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven (Luke10:18 KJV)".


That is to say, Jesus saw Satan in a form of a lightening falling from heaven. This is the appearance usually taken by Satan and this is the main reason why he was called Lucifer (which means light-bearer or morning star or shining one ) in Isaiah 14:12 KJV

[Lucifer is a combination of [lūx (light) + ferō (bear, carry) in Latin language]

Jesus also describe his second coming as lightening.
Lucifer is not the light only a bearer of the light. That light means God's knowledge.

But is it really reasonable to believe that it was Satan, and not Jesus, that revealed himself to Paul in form of lightning from heaven? Yes, it is not only reasonable but also provable by combining together the three strong facts below ;


1. Jesus has already forewarned the original apostles not to believe in any account of a person proclaiming private appearance of Christ, using repeatedly the phrase if anyone.... (which means without exception -see Matthew 24:23-28 quoted above)



2. If Jesus really foretold that he beheld Satan in a form of lightning fall from heaven (Luke 10:18 KJV), then Jesus would never emulate Satan by appearing in the same form to any chosen apostle. Yet it was the same lightning (i:e bright light) from heaven that revealed himself to Paul on his road to Damascus (see Acts 22:6-9 quoted above).

The verse you just quoted said Jesus would appear as lightening.

3. Matthew 24:36 clearly shows that Jesus does not know the actual day which general resurrection will take place and again Mark 11:12-14 clearly revealed that Jesus did not know that a distant fig tree had no fruits (until he reached the tree) which all implies that Jesus cannot be God who always has a perfect knowledge about all things.

God "always have perfect knowledge" of all things because he only has one nature but however when he took the nature of man, he could exhibit the character of man and God meaning he could have unlimited knowledge or limit himself to his human nature.
So God has perfect knowledge is true, that is because of his nature as God but however, when he became man, he could also have limited knowledge.

Yet contrary to this basic fact, Paul indirectly proclaimed that Jesus is God by stating that all the fullness of God ( i:e the whole of divine nature) dwell in the body of Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:19, 2:9).

Hence stylishly, Paul caused the christians to commit the sin of idolatry by giving them the opportunity to take Jesus (who is only a man-- Acts 2:22) as a divine God.

even before Paul called Jesus God, Jesus described himself as the "I AM" which is a name for the true God Yahweh.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

See how all the evidence explained above support the fact that the bright light that revealed himself to Paul on his way to Damascus was not Jesus Christ but Satan in disguise - a ravening wolf that came in sheep's clothing (Matthew 7:15).




But despite this satanic delusion experienced by Paul, almost half of the books (13 out of 27) found in the New Testament were written by him alone.


Look at the foundation upon which the edifice of Christianity is erected !


This is the top secret that is clearly depicted in the Bible but which is still unknown to many Christians

At the, you have only exposed your ignorance.

Kobojunkie:
Why not look to the source of Truth himself for the answers to this? He makes it simple.

According to Jesus Christ, one must be born-again in order to enter into the Kingdom of God - no exception to this rule - John 3 vs 1 - 8 - and this can be done via 1 of 2 gates; the broad gate which leads to destruction aka Hellfire and the Narrow gate which leads to True Life aka Heaven at the end - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 & Luke 13 vs 22 - 30 - meaning that every last one of those who will end up in Hell after judgement day will all be born-again as they all possess eternal life which they will intend spend in eternal damnation, and their sentence is to be served out in the Kingdom of God where only those who are born-again have access to - Matthew 25 vs 40 - 46. And according to the judgement which will be doled out by the King in the Kingdom of God at the end, the punishment of eternal damnation is meant for those who refuse to do as God commands aka those who believe yet continue in disobedience aka sin.

Junks
load of nonsense.

AntiChristian:
Where is "Christianity" mentioned anywhere in the Bible as a religion? It is a cult started after Jesus left the earth! Real Stupidity is following a religion started by unknown men and attributed to Jesus!

I don't even understand most of what you are typing! Learn to improve on your "typo" to communicate better. Holy Spirit can't help you here. Na "works" go do.

So you are calling Jesus a mad man calling alcoholic wine blood right? How is wine blood?

Yes it has been! Injeel is the revelation revealed to Jesus. Do you have it?



Where is the name of Jesus mentioned in the Isaiah verse you quoted?
Do you mean your LORD bruised Himself (Jesus) to death on the cross?
So saying the Romans killed Jesus was a lie. Your LORD is the murderer of Himself!


Yes, i can now see your folly and stupidity! It seems when you became a Christian all atom of sense is removed and replaced with idiocy!

Same Jesus that can't save himself from birth that your LORD had to send the Angel to warn his adopted father to protect your God by running away with him. How does humans protect God?

The prophet Isaiah prophesied that someone will come to die or the sins of his people, so who in history was ever said to died for sin of men if not Jesus?
According to Isaiah this person is a servant of God, so who amongst God's servant was ever a sacrifice for sin

AntiChristian:
Daily Book Reading: Truth For The Truth Seekers P. 26 - 28 By Bashir Lucas Samson Lukman

https://knowislam.com.ng/daily-book-reading-truth-for.../

Jesus could have died for our sins only if he actually died whereas he was not killed neither was he crucified; those who think he died follow only conjecture. It is not strange that when the arrest of Jesus occurred, the whole disciples fled and forsook him (Mark14:50). The gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written years after Jesus left the surface of the earth, none of them knew what exactly happened, they all wrote from hearsay. Let us read the beginning of the gospel of Luke,
"Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
"Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus (Luke 1:1-3).
We can read how the author was addressing Theophilus. The author of the gospel of look didn't claim his story is from God neither did he claim to be present but he wrote from hearsay. It is for this reason that the gospels contradicted one another. For example, the author of the gospel of Matthew and Luke could not agree on whether one or both thieves crucified with Jesus mocked him. We read in Matthew 27:44
"The two thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same (mockery) in his teeth"
We read in Luke 23:39-40,
"And one of the malefactors(thieves) which were hanged railed on him, saying, if thou be the Christ, save thyself and us.
" But the other answering him, saying, dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

One lie is all that is needed to disprove the divinity of these gospels as they are ascribed to God. It would be blasphemy to ascribe this contradictions to God. God would not reveal to the author of the gospel of Matthew that both thieves mocked Jesus then reveal to the author of the gospel of Luke that both one of them mocked Jesus.

There are several other places where the authors of the four gospels contradicted one another. Another example is what time was Jesus crucified. In Mark 15:25, the bible says Jesus was crucified in the third hour while John19:14-18 says he was crucified in the 6th hour.
These little contradictions may not be sufficient to disprove Jesus' crucifixion but are enough to prove that these gospels were not revealed by God. Let us now look into more verses in the bible that makes it axiomatic that Jesus died not. In the book of psalms chapter 37:28, the bible says,
"For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed: the offspring of the wicked shall perish."
Here the bible tells us that God loves those who are just and will never forsake those who are faithful to him. Any Christian will agree that Jesus Christ was faithful, just, and righteous. Now, let us read what Matthew 27:46 says,
”And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice saying, Eli, Eli, why hast thou forsaken me?"
Jesus was asking God why he was being forsaken. If Jesus was actually forsaken on the cross that means he was not righteous at the point of crucifixion. If then Jesus was not righteous at the point of crucifixion, what is the fate of over one billion Christians we have in the world today?

Jesus Christ was a righteous messenger of God and God could not have forsaken him that is why the Quran says in sura An-Nisaa,
" And for their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but another was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain"
" Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

The Bible again says in Hebrews 5:7,
" (Jesus) who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, AND WAS HEARD IN THAT HE FEARED"

If Jesus strongly cried to God and tears unto God and his prayers were heard by God, then Jesus did not die. If Jesus died, that means God did not answer Jesus' prayers. Now, if during the last days of Jesus, God did not answer his prayers, are those who rely on Jesus not in soup?

see stupidity.
In Christianity salvation is guaranteed through Jesus because he paid the price but you shall perish in your sins with nobody to pay.

Allah or Mohammad can not guarantee you salvation because you all your good works and religious piety is to earn you paradise yet they never did what a miserable life but here is the Son of God offering you what allah and Mohammad can not offer the salvation for your soul, do you reject?

With Islam you don't know where you are going to, you are simply in darkness.

Look at Jesus statment

Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Ok you said the injeel has being corrupted right?

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Now this is a passage from the prophet Isaiah

The prophet confirms that the person who that passage is talking about was made an offering for sin.
Do you now see your stupidity?
Mohamad was lost as he did not know the truth hence the reason he rejected his only hope for salvation which is Jesus christ.

The teaching that once one is saved God does not see his sin and God forgives past present and future sin are false.
Rather God forgives all his past sins and sanctified him which includes forgiveness of sin.

A Christian sins when he walks in the flesh.

1.From the bible the ultimate destination is the new earth.
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


The bible ends with God coming down to take abode with men. God is going to come down from heaven to the new earth. The final destination is the new earth not heaven.


2. After death the soul/Spirit of a Christian goes to be with Jesus.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Philippians 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

Beautiful, evolution is a lie, it is lie crafted in other to explain away the creator who is above all blessed forever.

The answer is, all things were created for his pleasure.

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The reason for our existence is to honor and glorify him.

Tboy222:


God almighty be with you, and he will strengthen you, I will keep praying for everyone, note before you preach commit the Lord's task into His hand, and after you preach commit it into the hand of Jesus, your own mission is to preach and tell Jesus. The Holy Spirit does the convicting, while our Lord Jesus does the saving.

Amen thank you so much.

Yes Hell and heaven are real but telling people hell and heaven is real without mentioning what Jesus has done to save them is not the gospel. The gospel is about Jesus Christ and him cruicified.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

When the holy Spirit came upon the apostles they went about preaching Jesus.

Jesus said the Spirit will bear witness and reprove the world of sin.

The fear of hell fire will not prevent you from entering into it.


Jesus said many would strive to enter into the kingdom but would not be able.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

There are many people today who are genuinely striving to make heaven but alas they will fail, why because they go through the wrong way.
The only way is faith in Jesus and his finished work on the cross.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The grace of God only save a man that trust in Jesus and his finished works.

Secondly, salvation does not just mean making heaven, No, this is unbiblical in fact there is nothing like making heaven but there is something called Eternal life, having the righteousness of God.

Salvation means God saving our whole being first our Soul/Spirit and then our body at his appearance.

Salvation is about God making us a whole new creation, a creation created unto good works, a life of union with God, to be in God's kingdom.
God's kingdom is about righteousness and joy in the Holy ghost this kingdom is born in us when we are saved.

Some people try to separate being born again from being saved, both are the same you cannot be saved if you are not reborn however, this rebirth is done by God not by man.

When you trust in christ and his finished work God recreate you a new this is called the new birth.

So dear reader the gospel is a wonderful news it is God offering you redemption, forgiveness, regeneration, his own righteousness and eternal life, however all these things are in and through Jesus christ.

The book of revelation from chapter 5 to 19 is about the remaining one week of Daniel's prophecy.
This prophecy is for the jews, Daniel's people.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Daniel 10:14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.


Basically, the seven years tribulation is for Daniel's people who the jews not the church.

I believe in the pretribulation rapture.

Paul said that the church will not suffer wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Also pretribulation rapture gives room for Israel to fulfill her prophecy of becoming the light of the world.

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

This scripture above is a a prophecy for Israel. There is going to be a time when Israel would be the light of the world.
At the moment, the church is the light of the world however, there is going to be a time when the world will be in darkness again. This can only occur when the church who is the light of the world is taken away, this will lead to Israel's salvation and Israel ultimately be the one to lead the nations to christ.

Paul said the falling away of Israel gave opportunity to the gentiles how much will their restoration will also lead to a greater number of gentiles being saved.

This is what is seen in Revelation chapter 7.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


After the house of Israel is saved then a great multitude of gentile nations are saved.

Again the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel God is going to be using Israel mightly during the tribulation.


So, the pretribulation rapture means that the church would be removed so that Israel can fulfill her prophecy.

Secondly, the seven tribulation is actually for Israel not for the church.

The seven years of tribulation is from Daniel's seventy weeks.
The last one week (seven years) has not being fulfilled.
Israel's prophetic calender was suspended after they crucified christ but after the rapture it would resume again.

Kobojunkie:
I believe what Paul was instead trying to say is that Satan presents his lies as if a truth to those desperate for a solution to their problems. Satan is the father of lies and so whatever he speaks is of lies but he is cunning in presenting those lies as if truth to those who are not wise.

Paul didn't in fact mean, if you pay close attention to the context in which the statement was presented, that Satan can transform into an angel of light or a human for that matter.

Sometimes I wonder if Paul is unhappy in his grave that he wrote those epistles which many a man has made a religion of building non-contextual interpretations of.

I know what Paul meant when he said Satan transforms himself to an angel of light.

It is an apparition. Evil Spirts can appear in the image of a dead person. The bible tells us that Satan can transform himself to an angel of light talk less of transforming himself to the image of a human.

Dtruthspeaker:
Say the truth and shame the evil. It proves your pastor does not trust in God therefore, he is not of God.

"To have respect of persons is not good:"

Every True Follower of God knows That The Law is, "He that would save his life will loose it"

And here we see your pastor saving his life. It therefore means he has not God!

That is just the simple Truth!

Why will I think he does not trust God? I am not shallow, I understand the word of God.

Truvelisback:
Well, what u have just said is good and possibly an assumption because Jesus didn't tell them what to do with the swords. I also assumed it is for protection or self-defence because they followed Jesus whereever He went to with the Swords. Now, i wanna ask u, if u see ur pastor on the pupit with an A.K47 over his neck preaching in the church, what would be ur assumption?

self defense is legal and approved personally but when it comes to the preaching of the gospel God's will supercedes human desire.

If my pastor weld an AK 47 over his neck and preaching I would assume it is for self defense.

But however such action can turn people away from the gospel.

Take for example Stephen who was killed because of the gospel did you think Stephen was foolish for not defending himself? No, why? Because sometimes God's call may lead us losing our life in line of duty but if it is not the will of God the best thing is to leave that location.

I believe Babylon is Rome.

1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Peter was sending greeting from Babylon, but however, Peter was not actually in Babylon but in Rome.

Rome is the last world power before Jesus come just like.
However, mystery Babylon represent the systems of this world namely that would be destroyed by the antichrist before Jesus comes from heaven.

Truvelisback:
Good day, fellas. Why did Jesus tell His disciples to buy sword? According to the Book of Luke22:36-38. What kind of sword was Jesus referring abt? Is it the Physical sword or the Bible? Kobojunkie, this question is majorly for u and MaxinDHouse who against Christians' self-defence. How did Peter got the sword he had if it wasn't bought?

Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.

22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Yes I believe Jesus literally meant sword, however he didn't command them to use it.

Jesus was teaching an important lesson to the church because now the church would need to engage in warfare , this warfare is a spiritual one not a physical one.


2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

The scrupture is clear that the Christian warfare is not physical against flesh and blood but against demonic powers and principalities in the heavenly realm.

To tell you Jesus was not saying they should fight physically, they brought two swords and Jesus said it is enough, you know two swords is not enough to fight a battalion of soldiers so Jesus was not really saying they should fight physically but rather he used the sword as example to teach them to be ready.

Maynman:
We have hundreds of religion, how do they matter?

that is because truth matters.

MaxInDHouse:
No wahala Mr TRINITY!

The "I'm" was an error.