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Teepain's Posts

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EducationRe: Lauretta Onochie: IPPIS Will Expose Lecturers With Multiple Full Time Jobs by teepain: 4:14pm On Oct 28, 2019
na2016:
They have not told you how much those lecturers earn. They have not told you that adjunct staff is not a full time job. They have not told u that to be adjunct u must be a PhD holder at senior lecturer level before another Uni can accept you. They only told u lecturers have many full time jobs. I hope they wont cripple that sector forever just to favour the private unis set up by them.
It is shameful that our universities do not engage in enough researches that can generate revenues to make them financially self sufficient.

Any University that relies on funding from the FG cannot truly champion the struggle of Independence.

You are not financially independent but you want administrative Independence; where is that going to happen?
PoliticsRe: Border Closure: Rotten Tomatoes Line Roads In Benin Republic (Photos) by teepain: 3:47pm On Oct 14, 2019
majamajic:
at the expense of we non farmers ?

anyway I just hope when the price Start to stabilize , they don't reopen the borders
It is not at the expense of non-farmers really. The advantages of the border closure are listed below:

1. More money that would have exited our economy would stay in Nigeria hence we have more liquidity; it is akin to your blood staying in your body instead of leaking out

2. Since the money you are paying farmers now goes to Nigerians, there will be a positive improvement in the GDP and Per Capita Income

3. The good prices that farmers earn on their produce in Nigeria would attract more people into farming and other spin off jobs, thereby increasing employment opportunities.

4. As the farmers and other people employed in the agric value chain earn more money they become less dependent on others for handouts

5. As the prices attract more people into farming and other agric value chain jobs, the supply will increase and the prices will keep falling until equilibrium between demand and supply is reached.
TravelRe: Trucks Stuck At The End Of Seme Border (Photos) by teepain:
AbuMaryam1:
I prefer to buy a bag of a local rice at any price. Wisdom is, I'm enriching my fellow countrymen. Take it or leave it Nigeria must strive.
God bless you! You have a better understanding of the economic dynamics of this border closure than people who are fixated on pricing alone.

At least, when we patronize our local farmers and manufacturers, we will end up growing our economy.

Conversely, when we buy the smuggled products we shrink the economy; we cannot continue to haemorrage the economy of the country and expect any meaningful growth and development.

I learnt that one of the smuggling groups who specializes in rice buys about N500m worth of rice every week before the border closure and I was told that this is one of several groups (from the same source there are more than 20 groups - meaning that our economy loses at least N10billion weekly to smuggling of rice and it could be more if there are more than 20 smuggling groups even if we leave out individual smugglers).

Modified:
And I am thinking, how beneficial it would be if we could lock in the money expended on smuggling rice in Nigeria - at least we would be growing our economy by N10billion per week for preventing rice smuggling alone.

Ultimately farmers would smile to the bank, more people would be attracted to produce rice, our gdp and per capita income will witness positive changes, supply will grow and then prices will fall.
PoliticsRe: Dickson appoints 60 new aides — five weeks to guber poll by teepain:
Urchman200:
I agree with you to an extent, the president supposed to lead by example others will follow, but what do we have a president who set more confusion than those following.
In a Federal system, the President does not have to set examples.

In the U.S, there are quite a number of states that are more forward-looking on a number of issues than the U.S Federal government.

These governors need more scrutiny in their activities but sadly tribal bigotry often prevents us from scrutinizing them as well as we should; as the governors of the respective states are almost always of the same tribe with the people they govern.
TravelRe: My Class This Morning In Canada by teepain:
sassysure:
Are the politicians not Nigerians?
The Apple does not fall far from the tree na.
See those shouting and screaming online everyday, just give them small political assignment and they will be worst than the old recycled politicians we have.

The kind of lawlessness an average Nigerian display every minute is mind blowing.
We virtually don't have laws and nobody obeys any.

All traders lie. Workers steal with pen. Construction workers use fake materials when u pay them for genuine ones.
Or is it our pastors and imams?

Crazy country.
Morning brother. You have captured the scenario in Nigeria aptly and I'm happy that some Nigerians know where our problems lie.

In traveling to other countries, I have formed the habit of judging the state of lawlessness in any country by the level of chaos on their roads! There is a correlation! How do we behave while driving on Nigerian roads? Unnecessary aggression, Cheating, wanting to get ahead of the next vehicle at all cost - even in hold ups.
BusinessRe: Four Nigerian Firms Begin Local Production Of Milk by teepain: 1:36pm On Sep 22, 2019
solmusdesigns:
grin


i know of WAMCO at iseyin oyo state...

What breaks my heart most is that all CBN's effort to give Nigerians upper hand and make us control our economy by discouraging forex for import and encouraging loans and forex to manufacturers, isnt being utilize , it is still Chinese, Europeans, Indians and lebanese that would setup this local factory and still benefit from all this, while our Politicians take money abroad, while our youths are worked like donkeys and paid peanut by this indians and the rest of the youths simply do nothing but wail online

CBN already made it known that $1.5bn dollars is spent annually that is N540,750,000,000 billion up for grab annually., Smart Graduates would already group them self into clusters of small professionals and understudy the local fulani method of rearing cattles and modernise it to give more yeild, and make a perfect bankable Business Plan and aggressively begin looking for AFDB loan, Bank Of Agriculture Loan, CBN Anchor borrowers Loan , that of Bank of Industries or Partnership and Investors even if its to partner Yahooboys who are trying to go legit, Afterall all graduate were given a project topic and we all wrote it spending money on research just to earn a mere certificate

...
Very sensible post. Kudos.
PoliticsRe: Border Closure: Benin, Niger Economies Under Pressure by teepain: 12:33pm On Sep 15, 2019
osazsky:
but y does your master run to London to treat malaria when we have leaves here that can cure him
The President's medical pilgrimages to foreign countries are condemnable and if this were to be the topic I would have condemned it unequivocally.

But, may I advise that you learn how to address people seeing that you are promoting your business on your signature; you don't know who your next biggest customer could be. How you arrived at the phrase of "your master" baffles me.

Good luck.
PoliticsRe: Border Closure: Benin, Niger Economies Under Pressure by teepain:
pawesome:
oga..it will [b]make things more expensive[b] like it is already.. Rice is almost 21k for a bag hia in the north from the supposed 16k... Noatter what they do, there will be smuggling because the system is corrupt
The government should be encouraged to even tighten the importation noose more.

Even if it will be more expensive in short term, Nigerians will gain more in the long run.

When Nigerians wear foreign clothes, drink foreign wines, eat imported food, it baffles me when they complain about unemployment.

For every grain of imported rice Nigerians actually provide employment for input sellers, agric engineers, extension works, marketers, supply chain experts, warehouse owners, transportation companies of the exporting countries.

China closed their border for more than 10 years and within that period they learn to produce whatever they needed, it was tough for them but then they are reaping the fruits of their sacrifices today.
EducationRe: Nigerian Universities Break Into Top 500 World University Ranking by teepain: 2:12pm On Sep 12, 2019
HigherEd:
Four Nigerian University have now featured in the Times Higher Education University Rankings. This follows 5 pillars in which the Universities where rigorously measured on; Teaching, Research, Citations, Industry Income and Internationalisation.


Covenant emerged no 1 in Nigeria and joint no 4th in Africa.

UI emerged no 2 in Nigeria and joint 8th in Africa.


Unilag broke into the ranking for the first time, surpassing UNN in 3rd place in Nigeria and 18th in Africa.

UNN sits at fourth place in Nigeria with 26th in Africa.

OAU fails in it's bid to get included this year.



https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/where-to-study/study-in-nigeria
Laudable achievement by Covenant University, more wisdom to the school's management, the alumni association and the current students.

By way of digression, I understand that American University owned by Atiku is one of the most expensive universities in Nigeria right now. Would you know if they were ranked at all. Same thing for the Bells University.

Thanks.
PoliticsRe: Buhari Supporters In Bauchi Celebrate His Tribunal Victory by teepain: 6:25am On Sep 12, 2019
MrColdsweat:
That is why democracy in a multicultural state is evil and devilish.

In a multicultural state, democracy is tyranny of the majority.

The illiterate majority decides the direction of the nation using their numbers.

Nigeria must break.
PoliticsRe: Dele Momodu Reacts To President Buhari’s Victory At The Election Tribunal by teepain: 6:10am On Sep 12, 2019
jaxxy:
Atiku has a good chance bt it was sabotaged. He spoke many truths on inec lapses and incompetence enough to nullify that election bt this is Nigeria.
In the court of law it is not the business of an election petitioner to "speak many truths".

His business is to prove with evidences the electoral lapses and underhand dealings that robbed him of victory.

Atiku's legal team did a very shoddy job. And against the respondent's team that had an election petition specialist like Olanipekun Wole they did not do well.

How did Atiku's lawyers believe that inec server was a legal ground to upturn the declared results:

1. The electoral act does not recognize the collation of result by electronic means
2. They could not state the MAC ADDRESS of the purported server nor it's serial number
3. Atiku's team claimed that they were told about the server by a whistleblower who wanted to remain anonymous. And you want the court to give Atiku a favourable judgement. No, it does not work that way.

If I go to court and say that I saw Mr A stealing something I might succeed in prosecution but if I say that Mr B (who is anonymous to the court and who is not ready to serve as a witness) then my case would most likely be thrown out.

Even FG's prosecutors lose cases from time to time because of their inabilities to prove their case.
CrimeRe: EFCC Arrests 13 Yahoo Boys In Another Clamp Down In Enugu (Photos) by teepain: 9:13pm On Sep 10, 2019
GavelSlam:
They would claim it's because there's no work.

But ask yourself, how many of them go into manufacturing when they make their millions?

How many of them set up a laboratory?

Are many of them not university graduates?

Nigerians have to tell themselves the truth, Nigerians love corrupt practices.
Bro why do you speak my mind most times
PoliticsRe: Presidential Tribunal: We Have Enough Evidence For Buhari’s Sack – Atiku by teepain: 8:28am On Sep 10, 2019
Gracealone:
Although Nigeria deserves a change NOW, but I think Atiku did not make a good case at the tribunal.
Atiku's legal representation was disappointing at the tribunal, I expected more from him and his team.
PoliticsRe: Nigeria escapes another $1.8bn arbitration award by teepain: 11:22am On Sep 06, 2019
anonimi:
Must you tell lies or you are just ignorant
Process and Industrial Developments Limited (P&ID) is an engineering and project management company founded and led by Michael Quinn and Brendan Cahill who had over 30 years’ experience of project management and execution in Nigeria.

P&ID conceived and planned a project that would deliver much-needed power generation to millions of Nigerians, and create profitable by-products for sale on the international market. Under an agreement with Nigeria, P&ID would build a state-of-the-art gas processing plant to refine natural gas (“wet gas”) into “lean gas” that Nigeria would receive free of charge to power its national electric grid. The lucrative natural gas liquid by-products (propane, ethane, butane) of this processing would be sold by P&ID on the international market, with expected profits in the billions of dollars.

In 2010, P&ID entered into a 20-year agreement with the federal government of Nigeria to execute this project.

Under the agreement, the Nigerian government was to ensure that all necessary pipelines and related infrastructure were installed and that arrangements were made with agencies and third parties to deliver gas for P&ID to process. However, the Nigerian government failed to meet its commitments, causing the project to flounder. This meant Nigeria would lose the opportunity of a new power supply, and P&ID would lose 20 years’ worth of profits.

P&ID attempted on multiple occasions to find a solution, and yet Nigeria refused to come to the table. Arbitration commenced in 2012 before a tribunal in London. Although during the arbitration Nigeria claimed to be interested in reaching an amicable settlement with P&ID, in fact Nigeria never made a serious offer and it became clear that Nigeria was attending settlement discussions only to delay the proceedings.

In July 2015, the tribunal in London unanimously concluded that Nigeria was liable for the government having repudiated the agreement with P&ID. In January 2017, the tribunal ordered the Nigerian government to pay P&ID $6.6 billion in damages, plus interest that is accruing daily at a rate of over $1.2 million
Source: www.pandidfacts.com

Please read through the submissions of P&ID carefully especially the parts in emphasis.

When you are done reading and reconciling their submissions with my earlier post, kindly point out the lies I told.

Then we can continue to have a civil conversation.
Foreign AffairsRe: Xenophobic Attacks: Enough Is Enough - President Ramaphosa Of South Africa by teepain:
GavelSlam:
I disagree.

A half-educated Nigeian with no skillset is the problem of Nigeria.

I can think back to some of my classmates during my undergraduate years in the 90s. Some were already involved in 419. Realise this was a period of fax machines and snail mail.

Many were from homes that were relatively well off.


Without developing a skill, the society is in danger of extinction.

Crime becomes rife, morals become lost and industry is stifled.

The homefront has lost all morality and development of the child with various skill sets has become archaic.
You and omenka are both correct. The Nigerian societal problem is a multivariable problem situation.

Addressing one of the variables without the others may not yield a desirable outcome of building a nation of our dream.

While we address, the problem of Nigerian graduates' ill education and skill gaps, we need to also recognize the treacherous capacity of the ruling elites to exploit our fault lines of language, tribe, ethnicity and religion and therefore guard ourselves against such inhumane exploitation.

And more importantly, we need to reappraise our value systems. While growing up, one of the worst verbal abuses anyone could suffer was to be called a "dullard" or olodo. Once you were tagged an "olodo", no one wanted to associate with you hence you would have to double your efforts, academically.

Little emphasis was placed on how wealthy your family was.

I recall with nostalgia that invigilators had little or nothing to do back then because even without the invigilators' we wouldn't cheat. If you dared to "giraffe" or cheat, the verbal excoriation you would suffer from your peers would discourage you from that ignoble path.
PoliticsRe: Nigeria escapes another $1.8bn arbitration award by teepain:
anonimi:
Acted reasonably by neglecting the P&ID case after being sworn in and with no ministers for six months then offering $600 million that was rejected. All of which has made the amount balloon and now doing their usual propaganda to save face?
How does all that amount to acting reasonably pleasehuh
Let me put my opinion of the the current FG having acted reasonably in proper perspective:

The timelines for the FG vs P&ID is summarized below:

1. FG and P&ID signed a contract in 2010
2. Contract was that FG would provide pipelines and other infrastructures and deliver natural gas to P&ID
3. P&ID was to build a processing plant
4. P&ID was to provide free processed gas to FG for addition of 2000 MW of electricity
4. Government did not fulfill it's side of the bargain
5. 2010 - 2012, FGN refused to reasonably engage P&ID
6. 2012: P&ID dragged FG to arbitration tribunal in London.
7. 2012-2015 FG made no offer for settlement to P&ID
8. July 2015, the arbitration tribunal concluded on Nigeria's liability based on repudiation and judgement was reserved.
9. Jan 2017, the tribunal read the judgement it reserved in July 2015 by ordering Nigeria to pay $6.6 billion.

The foregoing is to put issues in perspective.

Now between May 29 2015, that Buhari was sworn in and July 2015 that judgement was reserved, there was little or nothing FG could have done.

And after reserving judgement, parties to the suit would have to wait to hear judgement to know their next line of action.

The guys who acted unreasonably were those in government from 2010 to 2015.
PoliticsRe: Nigeria escapes another $1.8bn arbitration award by teepain: 11:58am On Sep 05, 2019
anonimi:
Confessing to the helplessness and hopelessness of El Dullardino of Aso Rockhuh grin


www.nairaland.com/attachments/6267651_1510641139934_jpege8dffaed6f52da138b21556e4465e5b5
Hate Buhari all you want, it is your inalienable right. However, cut the man some slack for uncovering this heists and fighting hard to make sure that the country does not pay some dubious contractors and their collaborators.

Now, if you ask me if I am completely happy with Buhari, it will be a capital NO.

But the truth is that, with respect to PID and this other case mentioned herein, the government of the day has acted reasonably.

Politics must be set aside when the need arises in the interest of the nation at large.
CrimeRe: Police Arrest Officer Who Beat FUTA Student by teepain: 7:45pm On Aug 27, 2019
celebgistz2:
We need police reformation in this country
More importantly, we need a reformation of our minds as Nigerians. The policemen are just a reflection of the Nigerian society - if you sack all the policemen in Nigeria today and replace them with another set of Nigerians, there is a high probability that they will turn out to be as bad.
TravelRe: US Embassy Blocks Visa Interview Dates In Nigeria Until Further Notice by teepain: 12:46pm On Aug 26, 2019
WizBLANCE:
Start being an American By leaving this sweet niraland for nigerians.

If your type were born white

Racist would be worst than it is now.
Please don't be offended by his comments. What some Nigerians do in the U.S will make you dissociate yourself from them.

If you are not careful, they can even implicate you, when the long arms of the law catch up with them and their accomplices just to get lighter sentences.
BusinessRe: Dynamics Intelligence Shuts Operations In Nigeria by teepain: 9:30pm On Aug 23, 2019
fairfora:
Only God knows what's wrong with us. Some years ago, Solgas, a US company left, followed by wilbros. I think our leaders are to blame for inflicting hardship on us. Not everybody can endure it. Fraud must be condemned at all levels but the government too must do their best to provide jobs to our youths whom he guaranteed 3m jobs every year during campaigns else, things could always get worse. Over 9m graduates are out of jobs. Shame.l! Even the national orientation agency saddled with the responsibility of public enlightenment and orientation has gone comatose under the Buhari-led Administration. Everybody's eyes are becoming clearer now. A vote for Buhari was a wasted vote. Na so,so corrupt people and armyroba full im govt.
The problem with us is that Nigerians may end up dribbling themselves into a corner.

What do we do to ourselves. Even when we as Nigerians set up businesses here some fellas end up trying to be too smart, this has led to a number of businesses folding up. I am talking about businesses that were founded by Nigerians. So I ask, how the hell would there be jobs?
BusinessRe: Dynamics Intelligence Shuts Operations In Nigeria by teepain: 9:25pm On Aug 23, 2019
PhilipGallagher:
That jenna bourgeois dey somehow. I remember when he made some very demeaning remarks about employing Nigerians.

He should carry his company and go. Which dirty global firm. Firm wey be like one man business mtschew
Trust me, tiny drops of water make an ocean. This does not bode well for the teeming youths.
CrimeRe: Full List Of Nigerians Indicted For $1.1B Internet Scam In The US by teepain: 8:46am On Aug 23, 2019
IGBOSON1:
Anyone caught, tried and convicted should pay for his crime! This is the main thing!

Trying to draw attention to their ethnicity is for what? If your country had provided them with opportunities to earn a decent living i doubt we would be here discussing this today! This issue of getting gov't to be accountable and work for the people is all what IPOB is about! If you have a problem with their modus-operandi then start your own movement to change things....just like Sowore tried to do before they silenced him!
Bro please this excuse is not tenable for these people's crime.

Granted that the Nigerian leadership over decades have continually failed their citizens, but the fact is that these guys got visas to the U.S and refused to make the best of the opportunities that they had, rather they chose to be criminals making things hard for their country folks through negative profiling.

When Nigerians complain about lack of job opportunities, I laugh because of the way the same 'disadvantaged' youths destroy the opportunities for global employment via telecommuting because of the get rich quick syndrome.

On upwork.com alone, some citizens of other countries earn as much as $10000 or more per month while providing various services but most Nigerians working on that platform have to use VPN to hide their identity to claim nationality of other countries - this act itself of claiming who they are not is even wrong - but they do so because nobody wants to do business with Nigerians!

Because of the inherent smartness of Nigerians, we ought to have been some of the greatest beneficiary of the internet through LEGITIMATE means such as freelancing, remote call centre services, international business partnership and telecommuting but - through their illegitimate dealings - these job opportunities are being destroyed daily by the youths who complain daily about lack of job opportunities! Nothing can be more ironical.
CrimeRe: Hassan Dantawaye: We Decided To Kill 50 People For Every Slain Herdsman by teepain: 6:37am On Aug 18, 2019
Elexdallas:
why is he not in jail?
why are they not investigating him?
who is supplying the weapon used? (top secret)
does it mean the government, someone in the government, the military are sponsoring this guys?
would Niger delta militants be treated this way?
Or is it because he is fulani?
But Niger Delta militants were given amnesty before now. As a matter of fact, people like Tompolo, Asari, Tom Awake and their followers were paid monthly salaries.

This attitude of rewarding armed struggle champions has continued today with the Fulani herdsmen and bandits.

More and more people in this country are being encouraged to go into arms struggle; government ought to punish criminals and not to negotiate with them.
PoliticsRe: El-Zakzaky Wanted Special Treatment In India — FG Reacts To Shiites Allegations by teepain: 9:37am On Aug 15, 2019
FroshJaynex:
Anyone saying his demanding too much is sick in the Brain, Is the government not doing too much already by holding him captive against the court orders? Na when this man die na em una go hear am, till date bokoharam is still technically defeated with more technical killings till date, I repeat anyone saying this man is demanding for too much has brain tumor
This false narrative of the government holding him against court orders have been going around for too long and I believe that a lot of people believed the narrative innocently.

The facts are that El-Zakzzaky had different cases in Abuja and Kaduna; while the court in Abuja had granted him bail, the Kaduna court had never granted him bail until some days ago when it granted him bail on medical grounds.
CrimeRe: Two Currency Counterfeiters Arrested By EFCC (Photos) by teepain: 11:08am On Aug 07, 2019
fasho01:
Too much crime in this country..


And it's saddening that it involves ripping off the man next door rather than ingenuity
Very sad issue. They would tell you that they rip other people off because 'country is hard', but I keep wondering if the country is not hard for that poor man or woman that falls for the acts of these criminals.

Sadly, the police to citizens ratio is very poor and I keep on wondering why our citizens choose to overwhelm the security operatives to their own detriment; because when they are overwhelmed with sundry financial crimes, how do we get them to focus on securing lives and properties of the citizens.
CrimeRe: 12 Nigerians Arrested In Ghana For Holding A 20-year-old Woman Hostage by teepain: 12:25pm On Aug 06, 2019
Something must be genetically wrong with some Nigerians! They give the bad leadership in Nigeria as excuse for their criminalities; they go to better organized countries, in search of the proverbial green pasture and they continue with their criminal attitudes thereby rendering their excuse of bad leadership useless.

As Nigerians, we need to begin to reevaluate ourselves and retrace our steps.
EducationRe: Secondary School Girls Caught Twerking And Grinding On Male Students & Kissing by teepain: 5:04pm On Aug 05, 2019
ednut1:
lord knows am doing ivf for gender selection. na only 2 boys i need abeg
Having boys these days is not a guarantee against parental hearbreak. Some boys' turn out to be gays!

Just ask God for good children regardless of their gender and do not abdicate your parental responsibilities.
FamilyRe: My Wife Changed 2 Weeks After Wedding!! by teepain: 7:45am On Aug 04, 2019
GrabHisBalls:
I didn't even speak my mind and you're complaining. Was I supposed to lick his ass? grin
No jare, you were not supposed to lick his ass. Perhaps acting out your monicker by Grabbing His Balls would have jolted him into reality. �
Foreign AffairsRe: Gunman Open Fire In Texas Walmart, Killed Over 20 (Pics) by teepain: 6:52am On Aug 04, 2019
Mk12:
there is nothing to suggest that there was more than one shooter.
there will always be shout of witch-hunt when criminals from a certain part of the country are treated with kids gloves
The El Paso Police department clearly spoke about having reports of "multiple shooters" via its tweeter handle.

That clearly is actionable intelligence.

See the highlighted part of the attached image for your kind attention.

Foreign AffairsRe: Gunman Open Fire In Texas Walmart, Killed Over 20 (Pics) by teepain: 6:02am On Aug 04, 2019
Mk12:
if it was your Nigeria, the suspect will still be moving around looking for his next victims
But only one of the suspects has been caught, the others are still moving around looking for their next victims. Infact, no one has shouted that the only suspect caught is a Californian, Texan, New Yorker, Republican or Democrat.

Nigerians always shouting about insecurity but quick to shout witch hunting when suspects are taken into custody.

The less we politicise security issues and other matters of national importance, the better for us.
CrimeRe: Delta: Woman Sleeps With Husband Brother, Husband Kills Wife's Brother (Graphic) by teepain: 9:13pm On Aug 03, 2019
soberdrunk:
The biggest problem in Nigeria is our mindset, just imagine the level of foolishness these people are displaying just because of ordinary adultery one person is dead and another one homeless, so how does this solve the situation? angry
Thanks for this beautiful contribution; until Nigerians accept individual responsibilities for the mess we are in, there won't be any way forward.

It is not about OBJ, GEJ or PMB. These guys just reflect who we are as a people.
PoliticsRe: Unclad Girls In Lekki: LASAA Suspends Firm's Licence Over Indecent Advertisement by teepain: 6:17pm On Aug 03, 2019
Bbbwings:
That lady talking is very irritating And is definitely sexually frustrated.
These people are mad
Are they really naked? because I think they tried just by covering the most important parts of their bodies
Mtchewwww.
Avert your eyes and mind your goddamn business.
What about children being driven via that route, would you tell them to avert their eyes too?

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