WoundedLamb's Posts
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JESHAL:So you believe the minor should be given to the man? You don't agree that a husband should bathe the baby, cook for the baby and take up minor jobs just to have enough time to care for the child like women do in a typical family but you think the child should be given to him in case of divorce? Ok. Thanks for your contribution. |
JESHAL:Tell me about that. You think the decision to leave a minor with the mother is a function of feminism? |
HRprof:You're still saying "when we copy them" and I'm wondering what we're copying exactly cause the US also attributes the child to the husband of the woman just like you claim "our culture" does. So what did we copy? The DNA testing? Fine, let's leave DNA out. The possibility of knowing a child isn't yours or that you have a child in another man's family still remains (as in the case of the OP). DNA only came to serve as a proof of concept. Culture is what we do with the knowledge of true paternity and not necessarily how we got this knowledge (DNA, confession, resemblance, timing, witness, etc). Please, the crux of this issue has nothing to do with America. Africans should stop blaming the west for everything. Let's address ourselves cause this is about the inconsistencies in our own culture simply cause we want to please the man. Otherwise, why aren't people discouraging men from leaving thier legal children when they find out they aren't biologically theirs (regardless of how they found out)? Why don't we remind them of "our culture"? Why are we talking about our culture now that we're facing the biological father? I'm not faulting your take on the topic. I'm saying, if we want to enforce this culture, we should also encourage the legal fathers to take responsibility of the kids. Otherwise, the culture would just be an object of misandry. |
Hahaha... Will America step in? |
JESHAL:But the idea of being identified as a feminist is not about joining any group or openly declaring yourself as one. It's a matter of your actions as can be perceived by others. So if you see a misandrist and you still call them feminist simply cause you want to call the dog a bad name, it's absolutely your decision. You seem enlightened enough to know the difference so if you have any problem with misandrists, call them out and stop calling them feminists unless you have an agenda to diminish the true essence of feminism cause you feel threatened by it. Some of the people advocating for women rights are happily married with kids but you'd rather judge the concept of feminism by the words of the misandrist in your street. It's understandable that a man sees a woman asking for equality as a threat to his superiority but that shouldn't make us muddle up things. There's hardly ever a thread here that doesn't end up with Nairaland boys insulting women and calling them all sorts of names. Threads pop up every minute to insult Nigerian girls. A lady is called an ashawo once she's rich and flashy. A woman shouldn't live alone or aspire to be too rich. A female can hardly give her opinion on Nairaland without being called a hoe and yet the guys that sleep with the so-called hoes are untouchable. In fact the gender bias has almost driven away all the ladies on the app. But it's someone that's asking for women to be included when her late father's property is being shared that's a sexist? Someone asking for the gander to get what the goose is enjoying is the sexist? And what exactly is "modern feminists". Was there some kind of feminism practiced during the time of our ancestors that we don't know about? |
bukatyne:Yes, no doubt about that. But you didn't really address anything I said. Or maybe I just missed your message. Are you saying the churches are wrong to be allowing women to talk in church? |
JESHAL:So what exactly is the "lies"? And who decides which sermons applies at what point and which one doesn't? Might we also tell Reno not judge us by the sermon he chose? Or are we OK with his own judgment cause it appeals to us? |
Kuns84:Well, in that case, you can't be going to church and still be a Christian cause the bible says women shouldn't even do as much as ask questions in the church while today's churches now endorse female pastors. So where's the original version of christianity practiced? I think we must accept that these biblical laws were made in a period when women were regarded as second class citizens or properties. The core message of Christianity is love. Most of these additions were the influence of the cultural background of the early Christians, their laws. Even the western world that brought Christianity to you knows were to draw the line to avoid being caged in the past. |
donbachi:That's to tell you feminism isn't about hating men. That's called misandry. |
Well, in that case, you can't be going to church and still be a Christian cause the bible says women shouldn't even do as much as ask questions in the church while today's churches now endorse female pastors. |
HRprof:Well, this wouldn't have been a problem if the society doesn't also encourage the husband to disavow thier legal but non biological children. Since the DNA trend started, we've seen men (legal fathers) discarding their "children" after they learnt they aren't really theirs (biologically). We all get so carried away with shaming the women that nobody reminds the men of "our culture". Then today, we're viewing things from the perspective of the man who did the do (the biological fathers) and suddenly, we remember "our culture". The only thing worth taking away from this is that we always want to take a stance that exonerates the man and heap the entire responsibility on the woman even if it means leaving the child 'fatherless'. I'm sorry to sound unappreciative of "our culture" but the wellbeing of the child is more important than any misogynistic culture and if "our culture" doesn't guarantee a home for him, I see no reason to defend it. You say we shouldn't adopt the "American culture"; please, what's the "American culture" regarding paternity? The American culture has laid down rules for all these and they follow it religiously. What you described as your non american culture is American. In the US common law, a child born to a married woman is presumed to be the child of her husband by virtue of a "presumption of paternity" or presumption of legitimacy. The biological father isconly allowed to take responsibility if the husband disavows the child or seeks divorce based on paternity fraud. In fact, even if the couple divorces based on any other thing without mentioning paternity, the child remains their shared responsibility. This way, the child will get know who wanted him as a child and who didn't. The difference is that Americans follow thier rules regardless of who's gaining or who's losing while you guys only remember "our culture" when it's on the side of the man whose interest you're trying to protect at the moment. |
Pierocash:Yeah... so who's child is it? Aren't we encouraging men to do DNA tests on their kids to make sure they aren't taking care of another man's children? So if you also ask the biological father to forget his kid, then what becomes the fate of the child and the mother? Isn't it sad that we encourage men who have children with other women asides their wives to just forget the kid and then we turn around to shame the women for not opening up to their husband about the child? This our desire to free men of any blame in paternity issues shouldn't also make us encourage them to be heartless. Law or no law, only a wicked man would watch his child suffer. |
This thread extremely saddening if not outrightly depressing. It's so unfortunate that when Nigerians discuss politics and who they'll cast their votes for, the only thing you hear is tribe. When the younger generation isn't any different than the older ones, can one really say there's light at the end of the tunnel? |
Lol... what a manner to advertise your site. If you're an app developer, give social media apps a rest or, at least, think of something different from the existing giants. Even such lies won't make people leave their comfort zones to join yours. |
freemanq:Seriously? And you still wonder why Africa is stagnant. No appreciation for creativity. Would you have said anything remotely similar to this if the artist was a man? The earlier you guys over there realize that a lady has a life to live asides being a good wife, the better for y'all. |
Welcum: Clearly unnatural? Brother, who dictates what's natural and what's unnatural? Apparently, what you see as natural is simply a function of the norm or majority. Most people are attracted to the opposite gender so those who aren't must be unnatural. But then, what if I tell you that variety has always been part of nature? That, to me, seems to be a more logical conclusion when you consider the fact that virtually everything product of nature has exception(s) including the concept of day and night. Skin colour, height, number of days in a year, etc., nature always has variations. So instead of seeing these deviations as unnatural, I see them as parts of the grand design. Gay people aren't unnatural, they are simply the minority. |
Why not show care to your audience and readers by properly editing your write-up before posting? |
Lol... most Africans overthink things and they're always quick to accuse people they don't like. Gay people don't have any business with heterosexual relationships or what heterosexuals do with each other, and definitely don't have any reason to want to discourage it (if only straight people would do same). I don't see how not giving women money would help a gay man except you're suggesting the SMAN people will eventually turn gay after a while. I think these are straight people who are either looking for ways to alleviate boredom or have just refused to outgrow boyish tendencies. We have a lot of them onhere so I don't know why we're acting all surprised. |
Say no more! Your English is heartbreaking enough. |
Poor Africa A pandemic started in the Middle East, spread to the West and then to Africa but Africans somehow believe they're the target. Africans never originate any vaccine but will criticize the ones made by the West. If the vaccine doesn't get to Africa, Africans will say the white man wants to leave them to die. If the vaccine gets to Africa, Africans will say they want to use it to kill everyone. Well, Africa is like a human being with a rough past who's still suffering from post traumatic anxiety. But the truth is, every nation had their share of that. They've, however, found ways to learn their lessons and move on. Africa has neither learned her lessons nor has she moved on beyond the trauma. Up till now, all the vaccines and majority of the drugs used in Africa are manufactured outside Africa and Africans still think the West would need a new pandemic to eliminate them if they really wanted to? They think killing them is so important that the West and the East will agree to kill thier own people in thousands just to target Africa. But it's fine. At last, the vaccine will be normalized just like other vaccines they take over there without questioning. Cause, truly, what other choice do they have? Poor Africa, scaredy and yet choiceless |
You pay them thousands to make you a billionaire. Lol.. funny. |
You caught a thief stealing from your own brother and you're contemplating looking the other way and allowing her to continue? You know that would make you an accomplice right? How do you think your brother would feel if he found out you knew someone was sucking him dry and did nothing about it? Being a single mother makes stealing OK? I've never been in her position but provided your brother is paying her, I'm sincerely shocked by the fact that you're slightly justifying her. How is the well being of your brother's business not your business? Asides the fact that he's your brother, does he not aid you with the money he makes from that same business? What then are you doing there in the first place if you can't report such things? Maybe you'd also mind your business if you caught her slitting your brother's throat. Please, tell him. If not for anything, for the fact that it's right thing to do. Or maybe we should wait for her own side of the story as my brother germaphobe advised. |
germaphobe:You're right, I usually defend women. If you read my posts as you said, you'd see I'm very unapologetic about that. Not because I want to be biased against my own gender but because I feel someone has to do that considering the heart breaking sexism onhere. Though you might have genuine reasons to think I overstretch it sometimes, the truth is that I wouldn't type of word of defense if I'm not clearly convinced there's something to defend. That's cause if I ever deliberately start a blind defense, I wouldn't be different those who blindly defend men and I'd definitely get caught up halfway. Yeah, I may not always be right but I try my best to be logical and not sentimental. However, I think you chose the wrong post to point that out cause I wasn't defending women here. The wife, though a victim of circumstances, isn't really the real victim here but the baby and there's actually nothing against her that requires any defense. My comment was more of a criticism of the way Africans handle the subject of human sexuality. I only said 'poor woman' cause most times, the ladies end up with men who can't truly love them the way a straight guy would. As for story versions, since when did we really start waiting for the second party to come and give thier side of the story before giving our views on the stories shared here? Though we don't normally start with the clause "assuming it's true...", the fact is that virtually every comment on Nairaland is made under the assumption that what we are reading is the case. People work with what they have and if a new version comes, they adjust. That's the only way to contribute and it has always been like that. Are we now going to change it cause a man is involved? Or do you think people would wait for any other side of the story if this was the story of a man and his cheating wife? Truth is, even if this story is not true, the comments would still stand against a hypothetical man who molests his own child. |
From a perspective, it would seem nature is not perfect (I prefer to use the word 'nature' for inclusiveness). But then 'perfect' is relative. In this context, what we see as perfect is simply a function of the norm or majority. Most people are attracted to the opposite gender so those who aren't must be imperfect. But then, what if variety has always been part of the grand plan? That, to me, seems to be a more logical conclusion when you consider the fact that virtually everything product of nature has exception(s) including the concept of day and night. Skin colour, height, number of days in a year, etc., nature always has variations. So instead of seeing these deviations as prooves of nature's imperfection, I see them as parts of the grand design. Gay people aren't imperfect, they are simply the minority. The situation of things in Africa is, however, a special case. The African man is unwelcoming to variation and changes except when forced to do so. That's why you hear people killed twins at a certain point in time cause the majority were having one child at a time and therefore any deviation was considered devilish. Hunchback, albinos, blue eyes, intersex, dwarves, etc., these are deviations that have, at some point in time, been perceived as unnatural and discriminated against in Africa. There's a very deep fear of questioning the status quo over there. Conformity is overly emphasized and nobody wants to be seen differently. This could be good in a way but in more ways than one, it has kept the continent stagnant and hostile to the minority. In summary, what I consider unnatural is the idea that the more-than-one-billion people on earth were born straight. That's not how nature works. |
Your own child? Nine months old? Terrible! She noticed the husband was into men, told his family but they didn't do anything. A typical African family would know their child is gay and still push him into marrying a woman. I really don't understand how people view things over there. Poor woman |
Actually, they know. They just want to play the ostrich. The white man came to Africa to criminalize homosexuality based on their limited knowledge. Today, they know better but Africa has refused to evolve. |
Kriss216:She was clearly responding to someone who cared to ask. |
Regex:More? It's about more? Your assumption is that this extramarital sex is always with single men. That's why you'd hammer on the woman who is supposedly the only married party. But the case of the bank MD only shows that's not always the case. It could also be with married men who are also breaking their marital vows and thereby causing grief to some other innocent woman (his wife) when she learns that her husband has a child elsewhere. In that case, who would you blame more? Single girls also get pregnant for married men. We know this even though there's no test to reveal it. In that case, who do we blame more? As a man sleeping with a married woman, must she insist on condom before you know that's ideal? Don't we have brains of our own? The truth is, regardless of who's breaking the vows, we're wired to blame the woman. And when both parties are culpable, we look for how to show women are to be blamed more. We only end up presenting men as if they are objects that don't have consciousness to take decisions and be held accountable for them. And I don't see how that yields any fruit cause by always shielding the men, we're raising a beast that will coexist with our sisters and daughters. |
RisenPhoenix1:First, thank you for coming back with a well detail response. I respect that in as much as I might not agree with you. Point of correction, I'm a man. Though I don't think my gender matters cause I believe we're being logical and not sentimental. I'm not shifting the goal post. Paternity fraud could be viewed as a family problem or as a societal menace. However, for the sake of a comprehensive solution, I only decided to see the big picture. When you consider paternity fraud as a problem between a man and his wife, then the man would clearly be the victim even if he's a cheat himself. This bit is not disputable. However, when we say "Nigeria has been ranked the second...", then it makes sense to also see it as a societal menace that must be addressed comprehensively. In that case, all the parties involved must be reprimanded. At a societal level, you can no longer treat the affected family in isolation cause an innocent man in the affected family is only suffering cause of what his wife did with a not-so-innocent man. If we blame only the wife and ignore that not-so-innocent man, he will do it again with another person's wife. Regarding your analogy, I don't think it fits in. In fact, it's a determined attempt to leave men blameless. Drinking with your friends (phase one) is not considered wrong. The only wrong thing is driving when drunk (phase two) and that would be your fault. Again, driving home while drunk is not a consequence of drinking with friends. It's a different choice made by one party after the joint session. He could have slept over and called uber. However, with extramarital sex, it's entirely a different ball game. The sex itself (phase one) is considered wrong so all the parties involved are already guilty even if it doesn't lead to pregnancy. Getting pregnant is a consequence of that phase. Contrary to your analogy, the woman didn't just decide to get pregnant after the sex. If semen was deposited during the first phase, she's got no choice in the second phase. A blame oriented discussion would capitalize on the perspective that would exonerate a particular gender. A solution orientated discussion would capitalize on the perspective that holds everyone involved responsible. I don't just see paternity fraud as a potential problem for myself but also one that could affect my friends, siblings or children. I believe a more worthwhile discussion is one that addresses the root cause by calling on all parties to respect the sacrament of matrimony. I think that explains why we may never agree. |
Regex:When you two consenting adults have sex, both should be held accountable. This is the summary of everything I said. I'm not blaming the man alone.Your analogy is a bit off cause that would be an accident (at least for one of the parties) except you're saying the driver and the person on the road agreed to orchestrate the entire thing. I am, nevertheless, not surprised by that analogy cause that's exactly the picture the guys onhere try to paint. Y'all present men as the innocent driver who accidentally hit on a careless or suicidal road user. Sexual relationship, on the other hand, is not an accident. It's a consensual activity between two parties who had options but decided to do it. By hinging your blame on getting pregnant alone, you're making it look as if a woman having sex with another man is no longer the problem provided she doesn't get pregnant. We both know that's not case. The root problem is the sex between a married person and another who isn't the spouse. The pregnancy phase is only a consequence of that action. Starting your blame from that phase would only be a deliberate attempt to exonerate the parties involved in the first phase cause you believe one party can be held culpable as far as getting pregnant is concerned. But even at that, I believe both parties share the responsibility of avoiding unwanted pregnancy. The man could use condom, the woman could take drugs. I agree only the woman bears the consequences but I don't see anything wrong in blaming these parties for the consequences of their action. |
RisenPhoenix1:It would be great if you could point out the part of my post that slightly suggests it's not the woman's fault but the man's fault. I believe the problem here is that most of you are intricately wired to be combative and defensive. You're all bent on presenting men as infallible and anyone that tries to shed light on the men's contribution to the societal menace is automatically an enemy that must be attacked. I presented the logic behind my perspective. You could have presented a counter logic if you had any. But you'd rather degenerate the discussion into the usual Nairaland tastless, testosterone driven, frivolous discussion, and I'm not good at that. I said when two people have sex, both should be held accountable and not just the one that got pregnant. I believe that was clear enough. |
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