₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
Whatever,
WHATEVER, HOWEVER and WHICHEVER way you feel like preaching your own Jesus, just get to work and let all observers see what you're doing! Matthew 5:14-16

As usual, never disappoint!

Which work should I get to for all observers to see, Mr JWs?

But you can see your previous claim contradicted Jesus statement whom you claim you're working for?

Maximus69:
I've told you that the shepherd is not lost, it's his sheep that are lost in false religions. He has sent his zealous,industrious and selfless workers out into the field to FIND them! Matthew 10:6

And these same workers are the ones making false accusations about Christ today.

There's nothing like ENCOUNTER with the REAL Jesus today because his own approach and arrangement for finding his sheep has been well documented in the Bible for ORDERLINESS amongst his true followers. He has sealed the whole arrangement when he said 'NO MORE ADDITION and NO MORE SUBTRACTION'! Revelation 22:18-19

The only thing Jesus is doing today is INVISIBLY directing his earthly followers on how to complete the gathering of his sheep as one happy global family of worshipers! That's why you're seeing them working as one global family! John 17:20-23

The @color parts say a lot about the self acclaimed followers of Christ. When this was boldly written in their translation

"21 Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me. In turn, whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will clearly show myself to him.”
22 Judas,+ not Is·carʹi·ot, said to him: “Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself clearly to us and not to the world?”
23 In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word,+ and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling* with him." John 14:21-23 NWT

See the way you're making Jesus a liar, when He said He will SHOW Himself to whosoever love Him even Him and His Father will make their dwelling with such person.

So auntie nutarious, if you're hearing any strange voice now telling you he is Jesus, know today that it's voice of a demon! Revelation 16:14

Jehovah's Witnesses, thank you o!

So why did Jesus make that statement, if He's not capable of revealing Himself to people

The reason why JWs are arguing blindly is because they never have real encounter with Christ Himself.

iyare14:
What did you do about it?

If it can be traced now, you might be among those who castigated him then or say he's a PDP loser. That's why he hasn't seen anything good about this country.

OLAADEGBU:
Do annihilation and resurrection make sense? Is it logical for annihilation believed by JW's to exist with resurrection, is it rational, reasonable or tenable?

https://carm.org/do-annihilation-and-resurrection-make-sense

Most of their doctrines fail logic test and not scripturally supported.

alBHAGDADI:
He's sees the truth but doesn't want to accept it because it will mean an end to his believe in his organization. So he stylishly rejects it by throwing diversive questions.

Couple with lack of comprehension

Imagine hammering on that particular phrase

That's how you'll know that they lack scriptural understanding

haywizzy007:
Show us how the surrounding verses contradict the words of Jesus Christ..

Answer the questions I asked first

Is that how you were taught in school?

haywizzy007:
Jesus stated an obvious truth..No man has ascended to heaven Is English language the problem or comprehension Mr. albhagdadi?
Did Jesus Christ ascend to heaven to bring good news?
You are just roping yourself the more..
I'm enjoying this

You're the real Olodo....

I wonder why you people will just pick one verse or part of a verse and draw conclusion on it....

Do the previous verses agree with what you're saying?

What is Jesus addressing in his statement before making such point?

haywizzy007:
You mean Jesus was not telling Nicodemus the whole truth? was he deceiving him?
Why do you take pleasure in twisting Jesus' own words?

Why do you take pleasure in not understanding the scripture by looking at the surrounding text either

Janosky:
Janosky keeps exposing his hypocrisy, LIES and stone cold hatred of Bible truth.

Let's see how the Bible speak.... against your ignorance.

*1). Jesus is indeed "some one like a son of man" in Daniel 7:13,14.

But your deluded mind says "Jesus is the "son of man" long before his earthly life and ministry on earth."

You citing Daniel 7 is to support your lies shows how shallow your understanding of the scripture is.

Rev1:9-18 gives solid backing to Dan7:13.
In Dan7:14, he was given authority ,glory and power by the Ancient of Days.
Daniel7:14 validates Eph1:17-22 ,The God of our lord Jesus Christ placed all things (authority, power) under Jesus feet".

As usual strawman attack, using style to divert attention from the main point.

,**2) Where was the spiritual bodies of angels who paid visits to Zechariah (Luke1:11), Lot (Gen19:1,2) and Gideon ( Judges6:11,12) when they were on earth ?

The angels in question didn't TRANSFER THEIR LIFE into any BODY, so your question is irrelevant here.

Jehovah TRANSFERRED THE LIFE of your angel Michael into the womb of Mary and as the same time angel Michael has a spiritual body.

1. Where is the spiritual body where the LIFE was removed?
2. Are you saying life is a person on its own?

I even remember discussing issue like this with JWs on this forum, he said, he admitted the body must be lifeless in heaven and nobody is there to know what actually happened to the body

Barristter07:
You argue its a person , I said IT there refer to a thing . to solve this: I gave you a true Life scenario

I said "IT" was use for Jesus, John the Baptist

Does that mean they are not a person.

For the last time, answer my question first! IF NOT YOUR RANTING WILL CONTINUE.

When Jesus spirit RETURN TO GOD, Was Jesus in heaven that day ?

Answer my question first!

Luke said God will cast something

Matthew explains BOTH Soul and Body, You are putting yourself in more problem

Idiot why didn't you emphasis on the key point of Luke which is "AFTER HE KILLED"?

It's evident that both Matthew and Luke talked about what man and God can do to the BODY but what only God can do after the Body is gone.

Jesus statement . address it.

You can imagine the nonsense you typed above, Do u understand the nonsense you wrote above¿

Let me clarify: Jesus said its better you lose some part of your body than HAVE YOUR WHOLE BODY CASTED INTO HELL .

Emphasis on " Casted into HELL"

So contrary to your earlier lie, the body is Casted into hell.

Your ignorance is alarming!

Jesus Christ said "man can kill the body but CAN'T KILL THE SOUL"

Why would Jesus differentiate between BODY and SOUL if the two are the same?

The Red part expose your lying mouth again, Do you accept body goes to Hell now ?

If not because your ignorance so rich in color

Mark emphasized more on the subject matter "Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, [u]into the fire that never shall be quenched:" KJV[/b]

The first @underlined was talking about the BODY, yet you're claiming BODY can't go to heaven.

The second @underlined talked about FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED

Even your corrupted translation can't remove that part from the scripture.

Janosky:
know nothing lying Pharisees pretending to be Christian.

Imagine, using this style to boycott my questions.

Hypocrite JWs

Jesus is the "son of man" long before his earthly life and ministry on earth.
To call Jesus son of man has nothing to do with whether he's in in heaven or earth.
Matt24:30. Daniel 7:13,14.

Your previous statement was: "Jesus passed through the human process of gestation prior to his birth. He was born of a woman, he calls himself. "son of man".
That speaks volumes.

You said "he was born of a woman, he called himself. "son of man"".

Olodo...I will keep exposing your ignorance!

Daniel 7 never called Jesus son of man but "someone like a son of man"

Matthew 24 also, was after Jesus became man not about His preexistence.

Meanwhile, is Jesus no longer Son of God before he was born on earth as you guys claimed again

Brainwashed JWs.

Go and dump your mumu doctrine inside dustbin.
Shikena !

Says someone who lack the scriptural knowledge and put his own salvation life in the hands of organization.

Meanwhile, why we're still on that, you haven't addressed this part of my previous post

1. Where was Jesus spiritual body?
2. You mean Jehovah killed the person of Micheal by only TRANSFERRING His Life (let me watch something here, you may shot yourself in the legs)
3. From these two statements, must there not be something left from what God sent?

Barristter07:
Let's see if it's a thing or person .

When Jesus spirit return to God, was Jesus in heaven that day?

Answer my question first....

If you don't answer it forget about my reply.

Hypocrite!

It trashes you as a liar, U dubious person!

What Did God cast into this Hell I asked ../ your response: Soul alone. Despite Jesus saying BOTH soul and body.

Olodo....

We're talking about Matthew 10 & Luke 12 even specifically on Luke when you asked that question but look at your lying mouth spew nonsense here

Let the next verse reply you better:

"
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole BODY should be CAST INTO hell. KJB

Will God cast the Body into Hell too?

Lying master, this is Matthew 5, how does Matthew 5 next to Matthew 10 If not because you've been taught to lie.

And Jesus statement here is about having half part of your body to make heaven is better than the whole body INTACT without heaven before you enter grave.

This is different from where Jesus distinguished openly BTW the BODY and SOUL by saying

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"

Luke 12:5 "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

karma2000:
Endtime generation he will face de same karma when he gets to his age

Maybe because you haven't boarded plane before who knows...

There is a flight rule not only in Nigeria but all over the world.

You have a seat assign to every passengers on board, Mr Soyinka could have occupied his own first before asking the young man for a seat swap.

For him not to seat in his own assigned seat means himself disrespected the flight rule.

Barristter07:
Let it expose my ignorance ... hahahaha, this film go sweet die!

Do u agree its a thing or whole person ? Emphasis on " IT self "

Just like I said it will expose your ignorance, Jesus was called "IT" John the Baptist was called "IT" and this is one of the useless excuses you people apply to the Holy Spirit.

Meanwhile, your organization says "Jehovah transferred the life of Jesus from heaven to the womb of Mary by means of holy spirit."

So it means what Jehovah sent is none existence because it was LIFE which is "IT" that Jehovah sent.

Jesus said BOTH BODY and soul will be in hell .. Do u agree ?



Jesus even once said in some translation ' Whole Body in hell ' Mat 5:29
Am I making sense ?

No sense at all

Explanation already given!

Janosky:
I challenge you to show credible proof that " Jesus used to deceive his disciples" with "other HUMAN BODIES",
If you don't, you're a confirmed LIAR.

I should provide credible proof from who/where

Janosky:
Jesus passed through the human process of gestation prior to his birth. He was born of a woman, he calls himself. "son of man".
That speaks volumes.

Then he stop being a spirit at some point, how come?

To go with your logic simply means God didn't send anything...because something from what God sent must remain in the human nature.

Now you agree that Jesus called Himself Son of man speaks volume but go through the story of Stephen while being stoned to death, what did he see?

The scripture says "and he said: “Look! I see the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.” NWT

So for Stephen to call the resurrected Christ Son of man when he saw him in heaven should tell you that Jesus was still with His flesh not spirit.

Even John in revelation saw Jesus as Son of man.

Most astonished among them is Apostle Paul calling Jesus Christ "MAN" when he said "there is only one mediator between God and man, the MAN Jesus"

Only a brainwashed person like you will agree that Paul is calling a spirit man

I know your narration will change again....

** Angels simply used their God given supernatural powers to appear to men with a human body temporarily for the mission they were sent to do.

But the case of Christ must be different since he doesn't have such supernatural power. Meanwhile, He is the one who created everything and still sustain the UNIVERSE by His power.

See this article about Jesus from your publication:

"4 So before being born on earth as a man Jesus had been in heaven as a mighty spirit person. He had a spirit body invisible to man, just as God has."

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989096

"3 Jehovah transferred the life of Jesus from heaven to the womb of Mary by means of holy spirit."

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20121201/why-did-god-send-jesus

This first says Jesus had a "SPIRITUAL BODY" and the second says "Jehovah TRANSFERRED the LIFE of Jesus"

1. Where was Jesus spiritual body?
2. You mean Jehovah killed the person of Micheal by only TRANSFERRING His Life (let me watch something here, you may shot yourself in the legs)
3. From these two statements, must there not be something left from what God sent?

Janosky:
"The sacrifice /offering of the body of Jesus Christ" Hebrew 10:10, Ephesians 5:2.
It's a gift to mankind. John 6:51.

When you give offering or sow a seed (it's a sacrifice too)in your church , does your church refund your sacrifice/offering back to you?
I don't need to remind you about it's ramifications.

So what happened to other HUMAN BODIES your Jesus used to deceive his disciples?

Are they for sacrifice too

Janosky:
When angels visited Abraham, Lot and Gideon, did they stop being spirits?
if an angel of God visits you today, is that angel still a spirit?
Thats your JAMB question.
Answer am

This is where we are going...

Why did you people then conclude that the once angel Michael a spirit being after came to earth (as Jesus) became FULLY HUMAN and stop being a SPIRIT being?

I know your tune will change now....

To your question:
The angel is still a spirit

** In the past, angels use human bodies on earth to visit men of God is not to deceive, but when the resurrected life giving spirit Jesus Christ used different human bodies at different times which the scriptures confirm, his disciples couldn't recognize him, to Emusan Pharisee, that's "to deceive"...
You no like the truth, it's in your nature.

The question is, do they become FULLY HUMAN BEING at the time of using HUMAN BODIES or their Spirit being was covered with human nature?

***Emphasis on the Human BODIES

You've already confirmed it above that they didn't stop being a spirit while taking up human nature.

lemme see how you'll solve these two contradictory statements.

Janosky:
Very idiotic post.
Greek is the original source for new testament (NT), the true meaning of any word in NT is in Greek meaning, not the fake stuff in English KJV. For instance, Luke12:5 &"Matt10:28, Greek Gehenna (refuse dump site in Jerusalem), KJV change it to "hell/hellfire". That's wrong and misleading.

You have some things to hide, that is why you dey fear Greek language like pikin wey him Mama catch am dey thief meat inside soup pot.

*** Why are you so daft?
Spirits such as angels and even demons possess supernatural powers to materialise (they change and appear to man in human bodies) in any form or shape they want.
For instance, Lot hosted two angels who appeared in human bodies (Gen19:1,2).
Gideon had an angelic visitation (Judges 6:11,12). How come?
All these angels simply materialised (appeared ) in human body!
Does that mean these angels were not spirits? alBAGDADI et al answer that question!

** John20:14,why did Mary Magdalene not recognize Jesus after his resurrection?
**%% Luke24:13-16 why did his disciples not recognize Jesus on their trip to Emmaus?
And again, Luke24:36,37 why no recognition of Jesus when he appeared to them in the house ?
No wounds, no nail marks on Jesus at all!

** Thomas had doubts(John20:25), and to erase his doubts, Jesus obliged him "put your finger here" ,he appears in a body with wounds and nail marks.(vs26,27).

** Uncomfortable truth to alBAGDADI, jnr Pharisee, emusan ,shadeyinka et al:
On these separate occasions, Jesus Christ NEVER appeared to his disciples in the body with which he died and was buried.
Shikena !!!!

You can even mention me in this nonsensical post!

Imagine, Jesus is borrowing different bodies to deceive His disciples and this sounds rational to your fable mind.

You people will claim Angels materialised but the simple question you can't answer anytime such is being discussed is:

Were they fully human when materialised or the human nature covered their spirit nature?

shadeyinka:
I wonder what would happen at death when they see that even though they are dead, yet they can still feel, reason and have emotions.

They feel humans are so valuable that God cannot forget some of them in his prison. Why should anyone fear God if the worst man can do is also the worst God can do to man

The @bolden part is what their shallow mind can never comprehend....which is the fact Christ emphasized in His statement.

shadeyinka:
No one ever disputed that.
In the old testament, almost every reference to hell means the grave or the place where the dead goes(sheol) or a place of sorrow depending on the context.

In the new testament none of the reference to hell refer to the grave but a place of torment and punishment.


The problem is that JW wish to hide the fact that hell exists so they put all reference to hell to mean grave. That is very wrong.

Can you find a single new testament verse that calls or describes hell as the grave?

Mar 9:43:
"And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:"

In JW dictionary, does fire burn in the grave!?

The @color part is their main problem.

You can see immediate I said hell also means grave he opened his birth teeth...

Barristter07:
It says Spirit " IT self " an " IT "

Seems something is wrong with you, is that a person?

Another useless excuse...

Don't even come with this because it will expose your ignorance the more.

And your conscience didn't pick you ? to cover a lie, you need more lies

Matthew 10:28

' BOTH body and Soul in hell'

Emphasis on " Both "

Can you see you are a liar ?

You now hold on to Matthew alone when both Matthew and Luke are saying the same thing and your question was from Luke.

That's delusional.

The question you asked was centered on the highlight you made to my post which is "AFTER HE HATH KILLED, he hath power to CAST INTO THE HELL"

It means the killing will happen first before CAST INTO THE Hell...

And from the scripture, it's evident that both God and man have POWER TO KILL the BODY but while God supersedes man is "CASTING into the Hell" and this can only be done to what man has no power on "The SOUL"

hope you get it this time....shallow brain man?

Barristter07:
Who ask you all this rant

Your deluded mind does

because you can't claim nothing exists after death and went further to claim "SOMETHING RETURNS to God"

I quoted a scripture for you, does it answer your question ?

I was expecting you to counter that scripture, and maybe then what you don't understand will be made clear

The scripture is fully against you and your dubious claim...

because the scripture is an evident that something exists after death and not NOTHING EXISTS

Question: What does God cast into hell ?

1. Body

2. Soul

3. Both Body and soul.

Soul.....

because it's already established that both God and man can kill the BODY

Barristter07:
You confirm translation error !

Jozzy4 , this thread will do some factory settings , Shadeyinka and albhagdadi see your partner admiting Hell is use for Grave , something you both vehemently denied . its all right . wahala dey the enemy camp like one friend of mine do say

Which one does hell means here, Grave or place of torment ? One thing is certain the body is present in this hell.

See my reply above!

Barristter07:
Ecclesiastes 12:9

" Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it "

Something returns to the maker which is restored to make the person whole again, spirit/breath of LIFE.

Firstly, it's verse 7 not 9

Secondly, look @underlined, I said it, you people are so confused and dubious in action.

Your organization claimed was "when we die, we cease to exist"

I could also remember a claim by your organization that "people who died only EXIST in Jehovah's mind

Now going by your claim there's actually something LEFT in man after death.

Let me stop here and watch u play chess again, then you just might be caught in your own game

Or you playing dubious game.

Stop telling lies, Hahahaha
Jesus said God will destroy ~~~Both ~~~ Body and Soul In that same Hell ( KJB ) ? ? ? Which one is after body is gone again , is the body not present in hell anymore ? Wahala wa o

You're wrong!

Luke shield more light on this by saying

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them THAT KILL THE BODY, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which AFTER HE HATH KILLED hath power to CAST into hell; yea, I say unto you, fear him" Luke 12:4-5 KJV

God will first KILL the body just as man will kill the body but God will later CAST INTO HELL what man can't touch which is The Soul.

Barristter07:
Na wah! Are there different hellfires or you mean the translation is wrong ?

Getting more interesting

It means your reasoning is wrong

And your dull brain has forgotten that hell is used for both grave and a place of torment for the wicked.

Jozzy4:
It simply means Only God can decide to either Ressurect a soul or destroy it completely.

What will God destroy when nothing exists again?

You people know there must be something left in man that God will use to restore man back to life but always adamant to say it.

But man can only kill the body , but not the Life ( or existence)

Isn't the body that is in existence

What is inside the body that remains

You're just contradicting yourself....

God gives a resurected person a new body, since the former was killed , But the exact same person returns to Live

Just look at the @underlined statements and see how dubious you are...

"Resurrected PERSON is given a new BODY"
Where was that PERSON before resurrection

For EXACT same PERSON to return to life, it means something is left in the person, if not what you're describing here is RECREATION and not resurrection.

Hahaha, So what does hell means here ?
Again: Body and soul in hell

Jesus already established that man can kill the BODY, if man can kill the BODY, where is the body going?

The second statement of Christ is centered on where man's ability is limited which is "SOUL" and it's only God who has the power to destroy it but this will happen after the BODY is gone.

Who judges him as Wicked so as not to deserve Ressurection ?

And in your English class you were not taught on something called illustration.

Jozzy4:
I won't want to drag this with u again, Or else you make a scene of yourself . keep in mind it says Body and soul in Hell


So this soul we are talking about is not an immaterial entity, its together with the Body in that same Hell of your translation.

are people u believe are in hell presently with their BODIES ?

The problem you're having isn't lack of comprehension only but couple with literature review.

Jesus first statement was "who can kill the body but not able to kill the soul"

This is in reference to man

This simply means two different things are involved here "BODY" and "SOUL"

MAN can kill the BODY but can't Kill the SOUL

This is a plain proof that BODY is different from SOUL

True or false?

This destroyed your claim that SOUL and person are the same.

The second part read "fear him who can destroy both body and soul in hell"

Looking at this statement without academic bias one can see that this overhauled what MAN can't do against THE SOUL in the first statement.

Is this true or not?

Lastly, your reference to "BODY and SOUL in hell" means you didn't understand the scripture because hell has different meanings...

Now, let me turn this to you, if someone killed a wicked man it means the wicked will not resurrect according to your theology. Now compare this with the statement of Jesus isn't that means the person who killed the wicked man KILLED HIS BODY AND SOUL? which is what Jesus said no man can do.

Janosky:
what did Jehovah say would exist in Adam after he died?

And where did Jehovah say nothing exists after Adam will die?

** ** Present the proof here to back your false claim JWs said "the person sent doesn't have anything divine in him"

So do you believe the person sent from heaven lives in the body of human Jesus or somehow just lost everything and became FULLY HUMAN?

Hypocrite!

You LIED as usual, where is your proof that JWs told you so...?

When they say Jesus is just pure human....

Imagine "I lied as usual" yet you never point out any of my lies before....provide the place where I've lied here on this forum.

sagenaija:
Amazing!

So, when there is no proof that what they want to prove is correct that still makes it a fact.

How did these "scientists" determine that there was "no change in the physical-biological environment" for billions of years?

And these same ones will also claim that environmental changes led to the extinction of some species.

How even men with intelligence can dump rational thinking to support their point of view is truly amazing.

The most confuse set of people on earth are those supporting abiogenesis...

The next to them are those supporting evolution...

The least among them are those supporting Big Bang...

Lastly, the greatest among them are those who combined the three above...

Jozzy4:
Are you saying Human soul can die ? Doesn't continue to exist after death ?

Where did you read that?

The verse pointed out that only God has power to destroy human soul...why is simple English so difficult for you people to understand?

Jozzy4:
Why change his words ?
Jesus said he came to give mankind LIFE .not just physical body Mr .

Life definition:

the existence of an individual human being or animal.

So in short he came to give mankind continued existence.

So how could this be if man himself is by default immortal as a Soul ?

And the body won't have life bah...